FW: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

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Sep 30, 2024, 11:51:57 PM9/30/24
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From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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Oct 1, 2024, 9:39:51 AM10/1/24
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From: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 1:39:37 PM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Article 7, Section 15 of the bylaws requires that all meetings, except for functions requiring executive session, be conducted in open session.
An "open session" is open to the public or membership where people can attend and observe the proceedings.

Prohibiting live streaming except when specifically voted to allow would violate this requirement of transparency.

Bylaws and Bob's Rules aside, having open meetings allows for public comments and lets engaged members see what their representatives are doing in real-time. Why on Earth would we want to end that?

Keith Thompson
Region 3 Alternate
From: Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 5:33 AM
To: LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>; Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Meredith Hays <meredi...@lp.org>; Chair <ch...@lp.org>; Mark Rutherford <mark.ru...@lp.org>; LP Treasurer <trea...@lp.org>; Adam Haman <adam....@lp.org>; Roman Garcia <roman....@lp.org>; Andrew Chadderdon <andrew.c...@lp.org>; Nick Shawhan <nick.s...@lp.org>; Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>; Matt Johnson <matt.j...@lp.org>; Dustin Nanna <dustin...@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Greg Hertzsch <greg.h...@lp.org>; Otto Dassing <otto.d...@lp.org>; Paul Bracco <paul....@lp.org>; Pat Ford <pat....@lp.org>; Ben Weir <ben....@lp.org>; Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <steven....@lp.org>; Kathy Yeniscavich <kathy.ye...@lp.org>; Robert Vinson <robert...@lp.org>; Andrew Watkins <andrew....@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
 
I believe Bylaws Article 7 Section 14 and 15 would conflict with that policy manual proposal.


Respectfully,

 

Paul Darr, Region 3 South Representative

Libertarian National Committee

From: LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 1:10:21 AM
To: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Meredith Hays <meredi...@lp.org>; Chair <ch...@lp.org>; Mark Rutherford <mark.ru...@lp.org>; LP Treasurer <trea...@lp.org>; Adam Haman <adam....@lp.org>; Roman Garcia <roman....@lp.org>; Andrew Chadderdon <andrew.c...@lp.org>; Nick Shawhan <nick.s...@lp.org>; Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>; Matt Johnson <matt.j...@lp.org>; Dustin Nanna <dustin...@lp.org>; Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Greg Hertzsch <greg.h...@lp.org>; Otto Dassing <otto.d...@lp.org>; Paul Bracco <paul....@lp.org>; Pat Ford <pat....@lp.org>; Ben Weir <ben....@lp.org>; Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <steven....@lp.org>; Kathy Yeniscavich <kathy.ye...@lp.org>; Robert Vinson <robert...@lp.org>; Andrew Watkins <andrew....@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
 
Much professional responses.  Many board governance. (Seebeck removed.)
From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 12:04:05 AM
To: Meredith Hays <meredi...@lp.org>; Chair <ch...@lp.org>; Mark Rutherford <mark.ru...@lp.org>; LP Treasurer <trea...@lp.org>; LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>; Adam Haman <adam....@lp.org>; Roman Garcia <roman....@lp.org>; Andrew Chadderdon <andrew.c...@lp.org>; Nick Shawhan <nick.s...@lp.org>; Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>; Matt Johnson <matt.j...@lp.org>; Dustin Nanna <dustin...@lp.org>; Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Greg Hertzsch <greg.h...@lp.org>; Otto Dassing <otto.d...@lp.org>; Paul Bracco <paul....@lp.org>; Pat Ford <pat....@lp.org>; Ben Weir <ben....@lp.org>; Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <steven....@lp.org>; Kathy Yeniscavich <kathy.ye...@lp.org>; Robert Vinson <robert...@lp.org>; Andrew Watkins <andrew....@lp.org>; mike.seebeck <mike.s...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
 
What an odd endorsement of the motion. Thank you, Mr. Seebeck. 

Adrian F Malagon
Region 4 Alt, Libertarian National Committee
Chair, Libertarian Party of California
From: Meredith Hays <meredi...@lp.org>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2024 10:59:15 PM
To: Chair <ch...@lp.org>; Mark Rutherford <mark.ru...@lp.org>; LP Treasurer <trea...@lp.org>; LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>; Adam Haman <adam....@lp.org>; Roman Garcia <roman....@lp.org>; Andrew Chadderdon <andrew.c...@lp.org>; Nick Shawhan <nick.s...@lp.org>; Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>; Matt Johnson <matt.j...@lp.org>; Dustin Nanna <dustin...@lp.org>; Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Greg Hertzsch <greg.h...@lp.org>; Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Otto Dassing <otto.d...@lp.org>; Paul Bracco <paul....@lp.org>; Pat Ford <pat....@lp.org>; Ben Weir <ben....@lp.org>; Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <steven....@lp.org>; Kathy Yeniscavich <kathy.ye...@lp.org>; Robert Vinson <robert...@lp.org>; Andrew Watkins <andrew....@lp.org>; mike.seebeck <mike.s...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
 
Thank you for your email, but someone being “jeered into silence" has no bearing on the merits of such a motion.  Please feel free to jeer me all you want upon receipt though. 

Meredith Hays
Region 4 Rep, Libertarian National Committee
lp.org | meredi...@lp.org
From: Mike Seebeck <mike.s...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2024 10:31:16 PM
To: Chair <ch...@lp.org>; Mark Rutherford <mark.ru...@lp.org>; LP Treasurer <trea...@lp.org>; LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>; Adam Haman <adam....@lp.org>; Roman Garcia <roman....@lp.org>; Andrew Chadderdon <andrew.c...@lp.org>; Nick Shawhan <nick.s...@lp.org>; Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>; Matt Johnson <matt.j...@lp.org>; Dustin Nanna <dustin...@lp.org>; Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Greg Hertzsch <greg.h...@lp.org>; Meredith Hays <meredi...@lp.org>; Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Otto Dassing <otto.d...@lp.org>; Paul Bracco <paul....@lp.org>; Pat Ford <pat....@lp.org>; Ben Weir <ben....@lp.org>; Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>; Steven Nekhaila <steven....@lp.org>; Kathy Yeniscavich <kathy.ye...@lp.org>; Robert Vinson <robert...@lp.org>; Andrew Watkins <andrew....@lp.org>
Subject: Re: FW: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
 
The Libertarian Transparency Caucus VEHEMENTLY objects to Amendment 1.02 Clause 10.

The LNC is obligated in all moral and ethical sense to be transparent to the membership in its activities and meetings to the maximum extent possible, not to mention fiduciary duty.  Requiring a majority vote of the LNC to livestream or webcast LNC meetings is tantamount to censoring the LNC meetings.

What is the LNC afraid of being seen by the members?  Their actions?  Member criticism of their actions?

Plus, its implementation is lacking procedural details as to when the vote would be taken, and if passed, when the casting would begin relative to the meeting.  It is simply a poorly-worded and mal-considered proposal.

Furthermore, the Libertarian Transparency Caucus was founded in 2008 and was the first to webcast the LNC to its membership, a practice that has continued unabated for the past 16 years.  At the time it started, a member of the LNC proposed a rule to ban recording and webcasting of the LNC.  The member was promptly jeered into silence by the gallery and part of that LNC.

Most of the current LNC hadn't even heard of the Libertarian Party at that point.

The membership, especially now post-COVID with advancements into more virtual and less in-person meetings, fully supports having LNC meetings live streamed and webcast, and it is not the authority, moral or otherwise, for any 9 LNC members to override the will of the membership.

Vote this terrible proposal down.

Michael Seebeck
Speaking as a Life Member
Speaking as Co-Founder, Libertarian Transparency Caucus
NOT speaking as a Judicial Committee Member, either LP or LPAL

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Oct 1, 2024, 10:57:54 AM10/1/24
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From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 2:57:40 PM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>
Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

The proposed PM amendment doesn’t prevent anyone from joining the meeting. They can join just as they do now.

Nothing in the LP Bylaws or PM require us to livestream or record, it’s a courtesy or “tradition” which seemingly puts our Board members at risk in different ways with each passing month so long as people can’t help themselves. Minutes are and will remain the official account of the meeting. 

“Open session” means the meeting is open to the membership, nothing more. Thus, this is not a violation of any Bylaw.

Adrian F Malagon
Region 4 Alt, Libertarian National Committee
Chair, Libertarian Party of California

On Oct 1, 2024, at 06:39, Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org> wrote:


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From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


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In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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Oct 1, 2024, 11:19:59 AM10/1/24
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From: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:19:43 PM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

For clarity, then - members would still be able to join via whatever platform we're using to host the meeting, such as Zoom? 

My initial reading was that:
  1. LNC members would also be forbidden from streaming meetings
  2. Publicly viewable Zoom/Teams/etc. meetings could also be considered live streaming.
But maybe that was too harsh of an interpretation. 

I assume our Zoom account has a limit of 100 people? That is probably safe unless there's something particularly controversial going on, which is certainly possible. 

Live streaming makes that a non-issue, as the number of attendees would be uncapped. 

Would meeting recordings still be posted to YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/@lphistory), assuming the newly appointed secretary has access? 

If so, what risk is incurred by live streaming that isn't incurred by posting the meeting recording? Or would this be coupled with a move to not record meetings as well?

Keith Thompson
Region 3 Alternate
From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 9:57 AM
 
From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


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In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

--

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Oct 1, 2024, 12:09:52 PM10/1/24
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From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 4:09:35 PM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>

Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Mr. McGee was gracious enough to make that motion at my request, and on my behalf for a variety of reasons I'll be more than happy to cover in detail during the discussion portion of the meeting on Sunday.

Adrian F Malagon
Chair, Investigatory Committee
Region 4 Alt, Libertarian National Committee
Chair, Libertarian Party of California
From: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 8:19:43 AM
To: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>
 
From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


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In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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Oct 1, 2024, 12:17:21 PM10/1/24
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From: Travis Bost <travi...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 4:17:10 PM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>

Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Recording a zoom call has different technical requirements than live streaming, along with better access control in the moment. I can see how the two options are distinguishable. 

I would suggest if we're going to establish a policy, that it be flipped around to require a vote not to stream by some threshold, and address the policy for in-person meetings. 

Travis L. Bost
LNC At-Large
Travi...@LP.org
From: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 11:19:43 AM
 
From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


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In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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Oct 1, 2024, 10:31:15 PM10/1/24
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From: Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 2:31:00 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>

Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

There is intent and then there is what is written. I've had other Libertarians attempt to argue with me that there was no way to know the author's intent when I was the one that wrote a particular bylaw. What I learned from that was to make sure my intent was clear in motions and to further elaborate, when possible, in reports and other documentation. What I would recommend is to consider expounding in some way that this does not remove a member's right to record or stream as on the surface the motion seems to do so, without knowing your intent.

It is also worth considering if the policy manual is best for this or just a simple motion. The current practice is a tradition not in the policy manual so a simple motion ending the practice would be sufficient.

Respectfully,

 
Paul Darr, Region 3 South Representative
Libertarian National Committee
From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 11:09 AM
Cc: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting
Mr. McGee was gracious enough to make that motion at my request, and on my behalf for a variety of reasons I'll be more than happy to cover in detail during the discussion portion of the meeting on Sunday.
Adrian F Malagon
Chair, Investigatory Committee
Region 4 Alt, Libertarian National Committee
Chair, Libertarian Party of California
From: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 8:19:43 AM
 
From: Jonathan McGee <jonatha...@lp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 3:51:43 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

Members of the LNC,

In my capacity as a member of the LNC, I am noticing the following three business items for the October 6th LNC Meeting:

1) Notice to hear the Investigatory Committee Report with recommendations of charges.

2) Notice of “Streaming Rule” LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.02. New clause #10 (attached below).

3) Notice of LNC Policy Manual Amendment, Section 1.01. 4 (Special Rule) (attached below).


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In Liberty,

Jonathan McGee
Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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Oct 1, 2024, 11:27:59 PM10/1/24
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From: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 3:27:48 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>
Cc: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>

Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting


Hi Mr. Darr,

That right is already codified in the Bylaws. Since the PM doesn’t supersede the Bylaws, there’s no need.

Adrian F Malagon
Region 4 Alt, Libertarian National Committee
Chair, Libertarian Party of California

On Oct 1, 2024, at 19:31, Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org> wrote:



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Oct 2, 2024, 3:03:53 AM10/2/24
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From: LP Secretary <secr...@lp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 7:03:37 AM (UTC+00:00) Monrovia, Reykjavik
To: Adrian Malagon <adrian....@lp.org>; Paul Darr <paul...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>

Cc: Keith Thompson <keith.t...@lp.org>; 4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms <4eb01eb...@amer.teams.ms>; LNC Business <lnc-bu...@lp.org>; businesslist-forward <businessli...@lp.org>
Subject: Re: Notice of Business Items for October 6th LNC Meeting

And no need to bulk up the Policy Manual prohibiting an unenforceable custom that hasn’t been followed for about three meetings already though I suggest we do because here is what will happen.   Someone else will stream on a platform we don’t control and add content and commentary that some will not like.  Unintended consequences.

 

In Liberty, Caryn Ann Harlos

LNC Secretary and LP Historical Preservation Committee Chair ~ 561.523.2250

 

 



In Liberty,

 

Jonathan McGee

Region 2 Representative, Libertarian National Committee

Executive Director, Libertarian Party of Alabama

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