Feeds are great but not everything belongs to them. Say I have a regular HTML web page with one single image. I don't want to provide a full feed to inform users I have updated it. Instead I simply send a small blip when needed.
> Hey guys,
> I've had a number of conversations with people recently about LLUP and
> BLIPs that seem to follow the same line of reasoning: "well, isn't
> RSS/Atom the same thing?" or, "I do that now with email!", etc.,
> etc. In the latest such conversation, after a lot of hand waving and
> mad pencil sketching on my part, a light bulb finally went on for me:
> blips enable workflow.
> >From Sylvain's "Introducing LLUP" blog entry from ~month ago:
> Feeds are great but not everything belongs to them. Say I have a
> regular HTML web page with one single image. I don't want to
> provide a full feed to inform users I have updated it. Instead I
> simply send a small blip when needed.
> How 'bout if the current /image object/ provided a way for me to
> register that I wanted to be blip'ed when Sylvain updated the image?
> What if every object on the page provided such functionality? What if
> the page itself provided a registration option: "I'll blip you when
> anything on this page changes"? The granularity of what I want to be
> notified about is left to me, the consumer. (Of course, the blog owner
> would set the initial, overall blip granularity and what per-object
> blip msgs he/she wanted to support.)
> The ability to manage a set of keyword topic filters on some blogXast
> server is cool, but what could really set LLUP/BLIP apart is the
> ability to register on a per-object basis.
> If registration-per-object is possible, then you've got a killer
> lightweight workflow tool that could be used for all sorts of things.
> I'm imagining a smart-widget-w/tinyicon along the lines of Ray Ozzie's
> Live Clipboard where the tinyicon appears next to any object that
> wants to advertise it's blip-ability. Clicking the icon could provide
> a drop-down of available blip msgs ( [ 'Notify of any change', 'Notify
> of new content', 'Notify of new comments'] ). Obviously, not every
> object needs or wants to be blipable, but for those that do ...
> ok, granted, there's some details to work out :) like, if a
> page-update blip goes out, how's it distinguished from an
> image-on-the-page-update? otherwise, what d'ya think?
Nothing to add. This was the idea behind my blog entry. Exactly as you
stated. This is in fact something that had striked me as well as one of
the greatest strength of a LLUP/BLIP system. Any resource should be
BLIPable (if I may abuse), or at least resources set as BLIPable (I must
stop that now) by the publisher should be.
The fantastic difference between this an email or syndication is, as you
say, the level of granularity as well as the flexibility of the LLUP
system. There is another big advantage to LLUP which can be described
A few days ago I was googling (I should be careful as it seems Google
doesn't like using their name as a verb) for LLUP to see who was talking
about it. I found one entry of someone I don't think I had ever heard of
around the project . Now imagine if this blogger had published his
entry to a LLUP publication service. Because I would be subscribed to
the LLUP service regarding LLUP, I would have received a notification
about his entry without having to search for it.
Of course because such capability could be abused as a SPAM, the LLUP
service could have removed it all together instead of pushing it to me.
Email can do this but well the mail protocol is so abuse with SPAM today
that I'm not sure this would be the best option. Syndication might be
able to reproduce the behavior to a certain extent (look at online
aggregators) but again cannot provide the different capabilities of a
I can understand why people might get scared at yet a new protocol. we
have so many already. The interest aspect of LLUP however is that it is
independant from the underlying protocol that will carry BLIP messages.
Therefore it doesn't redefine the wheel. It simply polished it a little.
 Link that I cannot find anymore of course...
How 'bout if the current image object provided a way for me to register that I wanted to be blip'ed when Sylvain updated the image? What if every object on the page provided such functionality? What if the page itself provided a registration option: "I'll blip you when anything on this page changes"? The granularity of what I want to be notified about is left to me, the consumer. (Of course, the blog owner would set the initial, overall blip granularity and what per-object blip msgs he/she wanted to support.)
I would most definitely second that Tim.
What we have here is a collection of some of the best developers in the biz (really; although I'm not sure I count myself in quite that elite group it's a nice place to hang around) and while we understand LLUP benefits from a technical perspective, and from our own domains, it's really fantastic to have someone on board from another domain that can give us questions such as "can it do this?", "what about this?", and not forgetting the incredibly important "but it doesn't appear to be able to handle this...".
All these questions are top notch, and of great help as we move ahead and shape LLUP in the future.
For my part, I'm usually coming at LLUP from a plumbing-type services place. While sitting in my hole and creating (or designing) those services that will make up a LLUP infrastructure (and like Sylvain says, this is more of a polishing exercise on existing standards which is a GREAT feature of LLUP) I am just as interested to know what the user-centric cases are that will exercise this infrastructure as if I was coding more user based stuff.
I guess what I'm saying, in possibly the most verbose way possible, is that your input is not just interesting Tim, it's crucial :)
On Tuesday, August 15, 2006, at 02:54AM, M. David Peterson < xmlh...@gmail.com> wrote:
humility = honesty, it's all the same to me mate.
Hoping to have more concrete LLUP services to get out there both source and as demo servers in the next week or so... watch this space!
Getting some pop-corn. Mark please get some drinks will ya?