Milton Group 3: Pamela Blanco-Girard, Tina Urbanavicius, Julia Ros-Larocque, Yu Xin Shen, Iline Guan

[William Shakespeare]

To illustrate a written text is to offer an interpretation of it.
Through this forum, consider how one or both of the two illustrations
below read Milton’s poem. Your first post, which may be independent
of or in dialogue with another student’s post, is due on Sunday April
15th at midnight. Your second post, which must be in dialogue with
another post, is due on Friday April 20th at midnight. Additional
posts are welcome! Posts that do not satisfactorily meet assignment
criteria and/or are put up after the deadlines will receive a zero.
Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
offensive or insensitive. When disagreeing with someone else, be
courteous and keep your comments focused on the other students’
writing/ideas.

The illustrations (http://www.christs.cam.ac.uk/darknessvisible/
illlustration/index.html#)
- Francis Hayman Pic #2: “Simon Francois Ravenet after Francis Hayman,
illustration to Book I of 'Paradise Lost' (1749)”
- William Blake Pic #1: “Satan rousing the rebel angels: 'He called so
loud, that all the hollow deep | Of Hell resounded' (I.314)”

Here are some questions that you might consider:
- What do the illustrations emphasize/de-emphasize in the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from the poem?
- What additions do the illustrations make to the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from each other and what is the
significance of those differences?
- What do you think about the appropriateness of each illustration as
a companion to the poem? Is one illustration more appropriate than
the other? Why?

In answering questions like those above, you might consider one or
more of the following topics:
- Characterization, both in terms of individuals and relationships
between individuals
- Setting (i.e. Hell as a place)
- Plot
- Sexuality
- Gender
- Morality
- Pleasure/pain
- Strength
- Power
- Evocations of specific cultural/historical moments
- Anthropomorphism (i.e. depicting the non-human as human)
- Theology
- England prior to the poem’s composition: politics, war, social
structure, etc.
- Formal elements: style, use of light and darkness, degree of
realism, spatial organization, closeness/distance, the absence of
colour, the use of colour, etc.

[Iline G]

Blake’s illustration of Satan rousing the rebel angels stands out for
Satan is represented very humanely—no horns, no wings, no distorted
facial features. Satan is here depicted in a very classic way; his
body almost looks like that of a Greek hero’s. This could converge
with the interpretation discussed in class wherein Milton could have
described Satan as a relatable, almost heroic character. While Blake
draws Satan wearing a somewhat angry expression, in a clear position
of authority (arms flailed, upright stance, center of image, large
size), and against rebel angels who seemingly look afraid or in pain
(look away, expressions of suffering, body positions), Satan however
does not seem to embody Evil as much as in Hayman’s version. Unlike in
most other representations, he is naked, and more importantly, unarmed
and unshielded. He comes across more like a figure of salvation for
the rebel angels. His position could suggest that of Christ the
Redeemer only for an opposite purpose: Satan assembles a troop of
sinners and encourages them to resist Good. There is still a departure
between Blake’s illustration and the text as Blake deliberately left
out Satan’s “expanded wings” (1.225), the angels do not look like an
army, there is no lake of fire and flames are here only modestly
present. The use of red however still works in recreating Hell as the
setting.

On Apr 10, 9:45 pm, William Shakespeare <andrewelbur...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Pamela B.Girard]

Hayman's interpretation of Book I of Paradise Lost tends to emphasize
the extend of Satan's power over the other Fiends as he is shown
wearing his full gear complete with shield and spear, pointing to the
other angels and seemingly ordering them to rise up with him, and
bears a frigid, serious, almost angry facial expression. Such a
depiction of Satan suggests that Satan is very powerful, as he seems
to control both the other angels, especially the one next to him whom
seems to be his right-hand man as he looks in awe at Satan's power
over the other angels, and Hell itself seeing as there is no fire
around him or his sidekick. Therefore, Hayman's Satan seems to depict
that of a king in an England prior to Paradise Lost. Since Satan seems
to be controlling both the other angels(a signifier for a king's
subjects) and the fire surrounding them(a rather sticky situation that
was believed to be a king's doing at the time) suggest the anti-
monarchist angle of Milton's poem given that Satan is the angel who
dragged the others into Hell(signifier, like the fire, for a quite bad
situation) and is still has power over them even if all this is of his
doing. This interpretation of the anti-monarchist bias of the poem is
reinforced by the depiction of Hell itself which seems to be a much
harsher place that in Blake's interpretation of Book I.

On Apr 10, 9:45 pm, William Shakespeare <andrewelbur...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Pamela B.Girard]

In response to Iline's post, I agree. Blake's interpretation sees
Satan as a redeemer for the other angels, whereas Hayman sees Satan as
more of a leader, in other words, as a king. Therefore, this opposes
two Satans to one another. One is seen, as Iline said, as a heroic
angels who still stands up when he is beaten and who is therefore
idolized, which implies that God here is the tyrant. The other Satan
is seen as a tyrant whom frees his people solely in order for him to
use them in order to obtain what he desires, revenge over God, whom is
seen here as a righteous judge of evil. On one hand, we have a heroic
depiction of Satan whom seems more righteous than God himself, and on
the other, we see a Satan that is genuinely evil, which opposes a
glorification of Satan and a denigration. Thus, one question remains
when comparing these two Satans : Is it truly "better to reign in
Hell, than serve in Heav'n"?

[Julia Ros-Larocque]

We can see anger in Satan's face, he just fell from heaven so its
appropriate. He is always sur of himself and he is pictured in a
confident way while others are following the order or guidelines he is
saying. Because Milton was blind when he wrote this in the poem there
is a lot of synonyms of darkness, I don't feel there is enough in this
engraving, or if there is, it is not near Satan but further up. And
Satan has a lance in his hand which shows that he is in power or in
control...

By the way I couldn't access the image by the link so I searched, I
don't know if its the right one.




On 10 avr, 21:45, William Shakespeare <andrewelbur...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

[Iline G]

In response to Pamela's post, I agree with her view that Hayman's
illustration of Satan rousing the rebel angels suggests an
interpretation of Paradise Lost regarding the power of monarchs.
Satan's facial expression, armament, gear, and hand gesture are
reminiscent of those of any king addressing commands to his subjects.
(I however do not really understand the comment on fire being
controlled by kings!)
Pamela also pointed out that Hayman's Hell seems a harsher place than
depicted in Paradise Lost. While Hayman does depict the great flames
and darkness, what is most striking in his illustration is the
condition of the other rebel angels. They look in agonizing pain as
well as completely stripped of the awesomeness, power, and resolve
Milton seems to associate with them when he writes: "[the fallen
angels] were the prime in order and in might" (1.506). Hayman's angels
look nothing like a fierce army of rebels ready to take on God
himself, and so really suggests that Hell might not be that great of a
place after all.


On Apr 15, 4:30 pm, "Pamela B.Girard" <pamela.blanc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Yu Xin Shen]

I agree with Iline's interpretation of Satan's humane representation
and figure of salvation. The irony lies in the despair of the other
fallen angels, when Satan seemingly reaches out to save them from
Hell, when he is the one who caused their downfall in the first place.
However, I would like to point out that Blake did not completely
depart from the text. The fallen angels are still chained and behind
Satan is a spear; indicating the violence to come. As Satan's goal is
"to wage by force or guile eternal war" on Heaven.

On Apr 14, 7:55 pm, Iline G <ilineg...@gmail.com> wrote:

[tina urbanavicius]

I honestly don’t think that the darkness in this picture is related
with the fact that Milton was blind during the process of writing
Paradise lost. If you look at other pictures, they all appear to be
dark. I believe the pictures are dark simply because of the art style
used is to show that Satan and his followers were evil and bad. The
darkness therefore, emphasizes this fact and paints them in a negative
light However, I do agree with the idea that Satan is in control and
is the leader of the group; he is shown with shown superior to the
others. Furthermore, he is displayed as being angry to further enhance
the notion that he is in power and can intimidate the others to follow
him.


On Apr 15, 11:52 pm, Julia Ros-Larocque <juliaroslaroc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > colour, the use of colour, etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Julia Ros-Larocque]

I agree with the fact that Hayman's Satan is similar to a King/Leader,
but if we take into account what was said that his angels don't look
"like a fierce army of rebels ready to take on God" then, what is a
powerful leader with no willing subject to follow. In that same train
of toughts, won't Satan seem to lose a depiction of power if the rest
of his group doesn't seem that powerful.