Beowulf Group 7: Ryan McHugh, Xiya Ma, Kathy Liu, David Volpato and Cindy Yang
6 views
Skip to first unread message
Andrew Burton
Jan 31, 2012, 2:27:11 AM1/31/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
*** Your Initial Commentary ***
In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
offensive or insensitive.
In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
“Plot” section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
Howcast’s Part 12 – Dragon Rising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQQp2FgmlI&list=PLFB5C91A71D71CD09&index=12&feature=plpp_video
All initial commentary must be posted by midnight Sunday February 5th.
*** Your Responses to other Students ***
In roughly 50-60 words, each student must respond to the posting of
another student. Point out what you agree/disagree with and why,
justifying your opinion with careful reasoning and references to the
segment when appropriate. Be sure your response is significantly
original relative to what has already been posted. Be courteous and
keep your comments focused on students’ writing/ideas. Only respond
to a student who has not yet received feedback.
All responses must be posted by midnight Friday February 10th.
In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
offensive or insensitive.
In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
“Plot” section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
Howcast’s Part 12 – Dragon Rising:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQQp2FgmlI&list=PLFB5C91A71D71CD09&index=12&feature=plpp_video
All initial commentary must be posted by midnight Sunday February 5th.
*** Your Responses to other Students ***
In roughly 50-60 words, each student must respond to the posting of
another student. Point out what you agree/disagree with and why,
justifying your opinion with careful reasoning and references to the
segment when appropriate. Be sure your response is significantly
original relative to what has already been posted. Be courteous and
keep your comments focused on students’ writing/ideas. Only respond
to a student who has not yet received feedback.
All responses must be posted by midnight Friday February 10th.
Kathy Liu
Feb 4, 2012, 7:22:37 PM2/4/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In both The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and pagan Germanic culture, honor
and courage are highly valued. Indeed, despite the fact that “none of
[them] have ever seen a dragon before” (and presumably having heard
terrible tales about such beasts, since dragons are creatures of
legend in Skyrim), Irileth and her men boldly step up to the task of
killing the dragon to protect Whiterun. Their courage is reminiscent
of Beowulf’s, who also shouldered the responsibility of eliminating a
monster whom he has never met before, but who is described by the
Danes as being deadly. Later on, Irileth also says they are
“honorbound to fight it… [because] this dragon is threatening [their]
homes… [their] families.” This sense of duty to defend their homes is
paralleled in Anglo-Saxon culture; in “The Battle of Brunanburg”, the
warriors “often in battle/against all enemies defended their land/
their hoard and their homes.” When their homes are threatened, Anglo-
Saxons do not run (because it would be seen as cowardice), they stay
and fight, until the threat has been removed. Irileth evidently shares
similar feelings, as she vehemently tells her men: “Could you call
yourself Nords if you ran from this monster?”
and courage are highly valued. Indeed, despite the fact that “none of
[them] have ever seen a dragon before” (and presumably having heard
terrible tales about such beasts, since dragons are creatures of
legend in Skyrim), Irileth and her men boldly step up to the task of
killing the dragon to protect Whiterun. Their courage is reminiscent
of Beowulf’s, who also shouldered the responsibility of eliminating a
monster whom he has never met before, but who is described by the
Danes as being deadly. Later on, Irileth also says they are
“honorbound to fight it… [because] this dragon is threatening [their]
homes… [their] families.” This sense of duty to defend their homes is
paralleled in Anglo-Saxon culture; in “The Battle of Brunanburg”, the
warriors “often in battle/against all enemies defended their land/
their hoard and their homes.” When their homes are threatened, Anglo-
Saxons do not run (because it would be seen as cowardice), they stay
and fight, until the threat has been removed. Irileth evidently shares
similar feelings, as she vehemently tells her men: “Could you call
yourself Nords if you ran from this monster?”
Cindy Yang
Feb 4, 2012, 8:41:06 PM2/4/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In Beowulf, Hrothgar hosts a ceremony in honor of the hero after the
latter has killed the monster Grendel. However, peace did not last:
Grendel’s mother attacks Heorot to avenge her son. Hrothgar then seeks
help from Beowulf, pleading him to kill Grendel's mother. In The Elder
Scrolls V: Skyrim, Jarl Balgruuf says to the player: “There is no time
to stand in ceremony, my friend. I need your help again. […] You
survived Helgen, so you have more experience with dragons then anyone
else here.” This statement implies that the player has previously
defeated dragons in Helgen, has celebrated that triumph and has hence
been requested to protect Whiterun from a dragon attack. In both
cases, the protagonists are called upon to defend a foreign community
and are promised gifts. Similarly, they are both powerful warriors
celebrating a victory that has been interrupted by another offense.
latter has killed the monster Grendel. However, peace did not last:
Grendel’s mother attacks Heorot to avenge her son. Hrothgar then seeks
help from Beowulf, pleading him to kill Grendel's mother. In The Elder
Scrolls V: Skyrim, Jarl Balgruuf says to the player: “There is no time
to stand in ceremony, my friend. I need your help again. […] You
survived Helgen, so you have more experience with dragons then anyone
else here.” This statement implies that the player has previously
defeated dragons in Helgen, has celebrated that triumph and has hence
been requested to protect Whiterun from a dragon attack. In both
cases, the protagonists are called upon to defend a foreign community
and are promised gifts. Similarly, they are both powerful warriors
celebrating a victory that has been interrupted by another offense.
Xiya Ma
Feb 4, 2012, 10:13:22 PM2/4/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Although The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim displays similar traits of
Germanic pagan culture as in Beowulf, such as the Mead Hall shown in
this walkthrough, this game nevertheless differs from the epic in the
perception of women shown through Irileth, a woman warrior, as
Balgruuf’s housecarl. Skyrim clearly shows Irileth as a leader in
Whiterun who possesses admirable physical and mental strength, unlike
women in Beowulf who are little mentioned or noticed. That being said,
this strong female figure might simply be a classic character for
contemporary storylines, but it is still rooted in the traditions of
Germanic paganism. In fact, Irileth could be inspired from valkyries,
which are important female warrior spirits in Norse mythology. In
summary, while Irileth might be a troublesome character in Beowulf,
but her existence is a trait of Germanic pagan culture in Skyrim.
On Jan 31, 2:27 am, Andrew Burton <a.bur...@marianopolis.edu> wrote:
> *** Your Initial Commentary ***
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
> Howcast’s Part 12 – Dragon Rising:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQQp2FgmlI&list=PLFB5C91A71D71CD09&in...
Germanic pagan culture as in Beowulf, such as the Mead Hall shown in
this walkthrough, this game nevertheless differs from the epic in the
perception of women shown through Irileth, a woman warrior, as
Balgruuf’s housecarl. Skyrim clearly shows Irileth as a leader in
Whiterun who possesses admirable physical and mental strength, unlike
women in Beowulf who are little mentioned or noticed. That being said,
this strong female figure might simply be a classic character for
contemporary storylines, but it is still rooted in the traditions of
Germanic paganism. In fact, Irileth could be inspired from valkyries,
which are important female warrior spirits in Norse mythology. In
summary, while Irileth might be a troublesome character in Beowulf,
but her existence is a trait of Germanic pagan culture in Skyrim.
On Jan 31, 2:27 am, Andrew Burton <a.bur...@marianopolis.edu> wrote:
> *** Your Initial Commentary ***
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
Cindy Yang
Feb 4, 2012, 10:33:02 PM2/4/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I agree with Kathy. In The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Irileth yells to
her companions, “but it’s more than our honor at stake here. […] The
glory of killing will be ours”. Not only does this segment feature
honor as a central aspect of the pagan Germanic warrior’s life, it
also marks an apparent celebration of war that is also seen in the
elaborate description of bloody destruction in “The Battle of
Brunanburg”.
her companions, “but it’s more than our honor at stake here. […] The
glory of killing will be ours”. Not only does this segment feature
honor as a central aspect of the pagan Germanic warrior’s life, it
also marks an apparent celebration of war that is also seen in the
elaborate description of bloody destruction in “The Battle of
Brunanburg”.
Kathy Liu
Feb 5, 2012, 2:56:29 PM2/5/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
While I agree Irileth is very different from the typical female
character in Beowulf, I do not think it is judicious to generalize
this observation to all women in Skyrim. The other women in this
excerpt (noticeable as the player prepares to exit Jarl’s room) play a
very minor role; they are nameless, do not talk, and simply walk by.
On the other hand, I find your comparison of Irileth to valkyries very
accurate. Judging from her skin tone, hair color and facial features,
she is not human, and further research reveals she is a Dark Elf,
which may explain why she is a warrior, despite the fact that she is a
woman.
character in Beowulf, I do not think it is judicious to generalize
this observation to all women in Skyrim. The other women in this
excerpt (noticeable as the player prepares to exit Jarl’s room) play a
very minor role; they are nameless, do not talk, and simply walk by.
On the other hand, I find your comparison of Irileth to valkyries very
accurate. Judging from her skin tone, hair color and facial features,
she is not human, and further research reveals she is a Dark Elf,
which may explain why she is a warrior, despite the fact that she is a
woman.
Message has been deleted
Ryan McHugh
Feb 5, 2012, 3:40:27 PM2/5/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
The video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim contains several parallels
to
both Germanic culture and the the epic poem Beowulf. In Germanic
culture and Beowulf the mead-hall are large building's in which
Germanic people gather to socialize and celebrate. In the video game
there is the throne for the lord against a wall and above it is a
skull of a dragon. Similar to Beowulf, the dragon skull is a token of
the defeat of a great enemy and Grendel's arm is a representation of
the defeat of a creature that has terrorized the Danes for twelve
years. Moreover, after defeating Grendel's Mother, Beowulf returns to
his company of men with Grendel's head and brings it back to Heorot
(1637-39). In addition, the main character is given a gift by the lord
Jarl Balgruuf from his armory and is able to purchase property in
Whiterun. This is similar to Hrothgar giving Beowulf gold and armor
(1020-23) as well as "eight horses" (1034-35) after defeating Grendel.
The most obvious connection between The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and
Germanic culture is the importance of honor. The character of Irileth
and the Whiterun soldiers are "honorbound" to fight the dragon,
representing that they hold honor in high regard within their culture.
The same is relevant in Germanic culture. To the Germanic people,
honor is the most important aspect of their society. The same can be
said for Beowulf, in which he must make good his boast and defeat
Grendel in order to retain his honor (632-38).
to
both Germanic culture and the the epic poem Beowulf. In Germanic
culture and Beowulf the mead-hall are large building's in which
Germanic people gather to socialize and celebrate. In the video game
there is the throne for the lord against a wall and above it is a
skull of a dragon. Similar to Beowulf, the dragon skull is a token of
the defeat of a great enemy and Grendel's arm is a representation of
the defeat of a creature that has terrorized the Danes for twelve
years. Moreover, after defeating Grendel's Mother, Beowulf returns to
his company of men with Grendel's head and brings it back to Heorot
(1637-39). In addition, the main character is given a gift by the lord
Jarl Balgruuf from his armory and is able to purchase property in
Whiterun. This is similar to Hrothgar giving Beowulf gold and armor
(1020-23) as well as "eight horses" (1034-35) after defeating Grendel.
The most obvious connection between The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and
Germanic culture is the importance of honor. The character of Irileth
and the Whiterun soldiers are "honorbound" to fight the dragon,
representing that they hold honor in high regard within their culture.
The same is relevant in Germanic culture. To the Germanic people,
honor is the most important aspect of their society. The same can be
said for Beowulf, in which he must make good his boast and defeat
Grendel in order to retain his honor (632-38).
> *** Your Initial Commentary ***
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
> Howcast’s Part 12 – Dragon Rising:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQQp2FgmlI&list=PLFB5C91A71D71CD09&in...
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
Ryan McHugh
Feb 5, 2012, 3:49:40 PM2/5/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I couldn't agree with you more Cindy. The idea of both Horthgar and
Jarl Balgruuf seeking aid from a foreign warrior is well presented in
the poem and video game. Moreover, the respected lord's are seeking
help for a non-human threat. Both Grendel and the dragon are powerful
creatures that have terrorized their respected cities along with the
people living in the cities. Similarly in both cases, it appears that
victory is inevitable, Beowulf seems to have a guaranteed victory over
Grendel and the player over the dragon.
Jarl Balgruuf seeking aid from a foreign warrior is well presented in
the poem and video game. Moreover, the respected lord's are seeking
help for a non-human threat. Both Grendel and the dragon are powerful
creatures that have terrorized their respected cities along with the
people living in the cities. Similarly in both cases, it appears that
victory is inevitable, Beowulf seems to have a guaranteed victory over
Grendel and the player over the dragon.
Ryan McHugh
Feb 5, 2012, 4:18:04 PM2/5/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I do agree with your thought on the role of women being more prominent
in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim than they are in the epic genre. In
Beowulf, women play an extremely minor role, excluding Grendel's
Mother who must play the role of a mother and father figure to
Grendel, and do not provide much to the importance of the story. This
idea is also found in Homer's epics The Iliad and The Odyssey, where
men play the most important roles and the women generally do not have
much to do, with the exception of Helen in The Iliad who was the
reason for the Trojan War, however does not provide much more
substance to the story besides that. However, there is a contradiction
with the character of Irileth. Irileth is a Dunmer (a Dark Elf) and
whose race is looked down upon by the humans and more specifically the
Nords and being a woman in Skyrim she is equal to men. In the world of
Skyrim, character's are not looked down based on gender, but on race.
To prove this, many of the Jarl's in Skyrim are women such as: Elisif
the Fair, Idgrod Ravencrone and Laila Law-Giver.
in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim than they are in the epic genre. In
Beowulf, women play an extremely minor role, excluding Grendel's
Mother who must play the role of a mother and father figure to
Grendel, and do not provide much to the importance of the story. This
idea is also found in Homer's epics The Iliad and The Odyssey, where
men play the most important roles and the women generally do not have
much to do, with the exception of Helen in The Iliad who was the
reason for the Trojan War, however does not provide much more
substance to the story besides that. However, there is a contradiction
with the character of Irileth. Irileth is a Dunmer (a Dark Elf) and
whose race is looked down upon by the humans and more specifically the
Nords and being a woman in Skyrim she is equal to men. In the world of
Skyrim, character's are not looked down based on gender, but on race.
To prove this, many of the Jarl's in Skyrim are women such as: Elisif
the Fair, Idgrod Ravencrone and Laila Law-Giver.
davidv...@hotmail.com
Feb 7, 2012, 10:04:33 AM2/7/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In the Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, we can see many similarities between
the life of the warrior depicted in the video game and Beowulf
himself. Much like Beowulf, the main character depicted in Skyrim is
being asked for aid by the king of Whiterun, Jarl Balgruuf, a lord in
Skyrim. The characters quest that he is given is to slay a dragon, a
mythical creature to a gamer, which is a parallel to Grendel who is a
mythical creature to the reader of Beowulf. Another parallel that can
be seen is when Balgruuf tells the player they he will reward them
greatly if they are to fulfill their quest to kill the dragon and that
they will also be allowed to live in the city and buy a home, again
this is similar to Beowulf who is told by Hrothgar that he will
receive many riches and that Hrothgar will be his home and that he
will always be welcome if he succeeds in his quest to kill Grendel.
the life of the warrior depicted in the video game and Beowulf
himself. Much like Beowulf, the main character depicted in Skyrim is
being asked for aid by the king of Whiterun, Jarl Balgruuf, a lord in
Skyrim. The characters quest that he is given is to slay a dragon, a
mythical creature to a gamer, which is a parallel to Grendel who is a
mythical creature to the reader of Beowulf. Another parallel that can
be seen is when Balgruuf tells the player they he will reward them
greatly if they are to fulfill their quest to kill the dragon and that
they will also be allowed to live in the city and buy a home, again
this is similar to Beowulf who is told by Hrothgar that he will
receive many riches and that Hrothgar will be his home and that he
will always be welcome if he succeeds in his quest to kill Grendel.
> *** Your Initial Commentary ***
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
> Howcast’s Part 12 – Dragon Rising:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUQQp2FgmlI&list=PLFB5C91A71D71CD09&in...
>
> In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the segment from
> the video game The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim invokes one or two elements
> of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf. Feel free to consider
> elements of the scene other than the dialogue and to discuss the
> impact of the video game genre. Ensure that your analysis is
> original, nuanced and makes specific references to the segment.
> Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
> offensive or insensitive.
>
> In this excerpt, the player is asked by Jarl Balgruuf (a lord) to help
> defend Whiterun against a dragon attack with Irileth, Balgruuf’s
> housecarl (i.e. thane). For further context, you may wish to peruse
> the Wikipedia article on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, especially the
> “Plot” section:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyrim
>
davidv...@hotmail.com
Feb 7, 2012, 10:13:30 AM2/7/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I agree with Xiya in the point she makes where she shows a
dissimilarity between Irileth and the Germanic woman such as those
than can be seen in Beowulf. Unlike many of the woman in Beowulf who
are depicted as mere objects, Irileth is a strong and independent
woman who uses her strength instead of her femininity. We can almost
see her as a complete polar opposite to Hrothgar's wife who relies on
men to win her battles while Irileth fights her own, which is a
complete contradiction between the beliefs in the Garmanic culture
where this would be frowned upon.
dissimilarity between Irileth and the Germanic woman such as those
than can be seen in Beowulf. Unlike many of the woman in Beowulf who
are depicted as mere objects, Irileth is a strong and independent
woman who uses her strength instead of her femininity. We can almost
see her as a complete polar opposite to Hrothgar's wife who relies on
men to win her battles while Irileth fights her own, which is a
complete contradiction between the beliefs in the Garmanic culture
where this would be frowned upon.
Xiya Ma
Feb 8, 2012, 9:25:07 PM2/8/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Ryan's arguments are definetly accurate, and we can furthermore
explore the importance of honor and community to the people of
Whiterun through their behaviors during the dragon's attack. While the
West tower is in ruins, the surviving guards stay at their site, ready
to confront the dragon once again. This shows their willingness to
stand for their society and to die in a honorable way. Also, we can
observe that the killing of the dragon is a collaborative effort,
which further emphasizes on the value of teamwork and togetherness.
However, this concept seems to be absent in Beowulf, where the
exploits of Beowulf are widely celebrated while little is said about
the other Geats' efforts.
> > All responses must be posted by midnight Friday February 10th.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
explore the importance of honor and community to the people of
Whiterun through their behaviors during the dragon's attack. While the
West tower is in ruins, the surviving guards stay at their site, ready
to confront the dragon once again. This shows their willingness to
stand for their society and to die in a honorable way. Also, we can
observe that the killing of the dragon is a collaborative effort,
which further emphasizes on the value of teamwork and togetherness.
However, this concept seems to be absent in Beowulf, where the
exploits of Beowulf are widely celebrated while little is said about
the other Geats' efforts.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Xiya Ma
Feb 8, 2012, 10:07:00 PM2/8/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
While I commend both Kathy and Ryan for noticing the special nature of
Irileth in Skyrim, I would like to respectfully but highly disagree
with your explanations on the importance of women in this game.
Unfortunately, the excerpt is unrepresentative of the image of women
in the whole game, and your arguments would be absolutely right if
this was your only focus. Nevertheless, there are 278 clearly named
women in Skyrim and many of them hold praising titles such as Aela the
Huntress, Mjoll the Lioness and Jordis the Sword-Maiden. Mjoll the
Lioness, a human, can actually be considered equal to man, since she
has battled extensively across the world and proves to be an
experienced traveler. Many of them are, in contrast to your data,
Nords, which is the race of the people showed in the excerpt and
presumably the race of the player. In summary, women do indeed hold an
greater role in Skyrim than in Beowulf, and race is in fact an
inadequate justification to explain the greater role of certain women.
However, the race issue from Skyrim pointed out by Ryan is a true
factor found in Beowulf and Germanic culture in general. In Beowulf,
while the Geats are trying to help the Danes, their nationalism and
self-praising are ubiquitous. This also reflects a cultural aspect of
Germanic tribes, where the valor of one's nation is essential for
their survival, as they will aim to conquer the other "races".
Irileth in Skyrim, I would like to respectfully but highly disagree
with your explanations on the importance of women in this game.
Unfortunately, the excerpt is unrepresentative of the image of women
in the whole game, and your arguments would be absolutely right if
this was your only focus. Nevertheless, there are 278 clearly named
women in Skyrim and many of them hold praising titles such as Aela the
Huntress, Mjoll the Lioness and Jordis the Sword-Maiden. Mjoll the
Lioness, a human, can actually be considered equal to man, since she
has battled extensively across the world and proves to be an
experienced traveler. Many of them are, in contrast to your data,
Nords, which is the race of the people showed in the excerpt and
presumably the race of the player. In summary, women do indeed hold an
greater role in Skyrim than in Beowulf, and race is in fact an
inadequate justification to explain the greater role of certain women.
However, the race issue from Skyrim pointed out by Ryan is a true
factor found in Beowulf and Germanic culture in general. In Beowulf,
while the Geats are trying to help the Danes, their nationalism and
self-praising are ubiquitous. This also reflects a cultural aspect of
Germanic tribes, where the valor of one's nation is essential for
their survival, as they will aim to conquer the other "races".
Kathy Liu
Feb 9, 2012, 11:19:37 PM2/9/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
While there may be 278 named female characters in Skyrim, there are
520 named male characters, which means women represent about 35% of
all named characters. While this is clearly a (much) higher percentage
of named women than in Beowulf, statistically, the female gender is
still underrepresented when compared to the male gender. Furthermore,
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim
claims that "standard nameless town guards or Imperial/Stormcloak
soldiers have about a 1:7 ratio of women to men" (while I was not able
to verify the complete validity of this statement, I have indeed
noticed a greater number of male guards while quickly browsing through
some Youtube videos). However, I do acknowledge your point in your
previous post and will admit that I am only adding these details
because I am a sore loser :P
On a side note, while this is not completely related to what we were
discussing, it is quite an interesting article: http://minoritygamer.com/archives/388
520 named male characters, which means women represent about 35% of
all named characters. While this is clearly a (much) higher percentage
of named women than in Beowulf, statistically, the female gender is
still underrepresented when compared to the male gender. Furthermore,
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim
claims that "standard nameless town guards or Imperial/Stormcloak
soldiers have about a 1:7 ratio of women to men" (while I was not able
to verify the complete validity of this statement, I have indeed
noticed a greater number of male guards while quickly browsing through
some Youtube videos). However, I do acknowledge your point in your
previous post and will admit that I am only adding these details
because I am a sore loser :P
On a side note, while this is not completely related to what we were
discussing, it is quite an interesting article: http://minoritygamer.com/archives/388
Xiya Ma
Feb 10, 2012, 5:19:36 PM2/10/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Although I am grateful that you acknowledge my argument, my point was
not to prove you to be a "sore loser". I also understand that factual
proofs show that men still stand out in this virtual society, in
Beowulf, in Germanic Culture and in the world in general as well. What
I intended to display is the difference between the women in this game
with respect to the women in Beowulf. Obviously, I am not necessarily
encouraging/asking for absolute equal status of men and women in
Skyrim, or the game would be historic inadequate. I want to argue
that, by introducing women as warriors, guards or any other typical
masculine position, this game shows that we have today recognized the
potential of women outside of the conventional feminine perspective.
The article that you shared is very interesting and I believe we
should all have a look at it.
On Feb 9, 11:19 pm, Kathy Liu <ephemeraldra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While there may be 278 named female characters in Skyrim, there are
> 520 named male characters, which means women represent about 35% of
> all named characters. While this is clearly a (much) higher percentage
> of named women than in Beowulf, statistically, the female gender is
> still underrepresented when compared to the male gender. Furthermore,http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim
not to prove you to be a "sore loser". I also understand that factual
proofs show that men still stand out in this virtual society, in
Beowulf, in Germanic Culture and in the world in general as well. What
I intended to display is the difference between the women in this game
with respect to the women in Beowulf. Obviously, I am not necessarily
encouraging/asking for absolute equal status of men and women in
Skyrim, or the game would be historic inadequate. I want to argue
that, by introducing women as warriors, guards or any other typical
masculine position, this game shows that we have today recognized the
potential of women outside of the conventional feminine perspective.
The article that you shared is very interesting and I believe we
should all have a look at it.
On Feb 9, 11:19 pm, Kathy Liu <ephemeraldra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> While there may be 278 named female characters in Skyrim, there are
> 520 named male characters, which means women represent about 35% of
> all named characters. While this is clearly a (much) higher percentage
> of named women than in Beowulf, statistically, the female gender is
Kathy Liu
Feb 11, 2012, 12:06:13 PM2/11/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Finally something we can agree on! I also believe this "elevated"
status of women (when compared to Beowulf) is more a by-product of our
contemporary view of women (in an attempt to forestall protests of
sexism), rather than a perfectly historically accurate game. In my
arguments, I simply wanted to point out that while the perception of
women in Skyrim is of course different from Beowulf, it is not as
different as you portrayed it to be in your initial post.
Interestingly enough, the article claims the game is sexist towards
both men and women. Even more interesting is the fact that while the
status of women has been changed to better reflect today's values, the
men remain largely unchanged when compared to Beowulf. Could it be
that violence remains an underlying value of our society, even though
we do not like to admit it?
status of women (when compared to Beowulf) is more a by-product of our
contemporary view of women (in an attempt to forestall protests of
sexism), rather than a perfectly historically accurate game. In my
arguments, I simply wanted to point out that while the perception of
women in Skyrim is of course different from Beowulf, it is not as
different as you portrayed it to be in your initial post.
Interestingly enough, the article claims the game is sexist towards
both men and women. Even more interesting is the fact that while the
status of women has been changed to better reflect today's values, the
men remain largely unchanged when compared to Beowulf. Could it be
that violence remains an underlying value of our society, even though
we do not like to admit it?
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages