Beowulf Group 2: Xu Zhang, Max Renner-Rao, Victoria Sayko and Yichi Zhang

[Andrew Burton]

*** Your Initial Commentary ***

In roughly 100 words, each student must observe how the scene below
from The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers invokes one or two elements
of pagan Germanic culture and/or Beowulf through adapting the The
Wanderer, an Anglo-Saxon poem whose speaker is an exile. You may wish
to consider elements of the scene other than the dialogue. Observe
how The Wanderer and the Germanic culture it conveys do and/or do not
undergo change J.R.R. Tolkien/Peter Jackson’s rewriting and
recontextualization. Ensure that your analysis is original, nuanced
and makes specific references to the scene. Please be respectful of
your classmates – do not post anything that is offensive or
insensitive.

If you are unfamiliar with the film, the man reciting the poetry is
Theoden, the King of Rohan. He and his people are in a fortress under
siege by Orcs; the odds for the defenders seem hopeless and a final
defense is being prepared.

The relevant scene from The Two Towers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y002fBDmEPk&feature=related

The excerpts from The Wanderer we read in class:
“Thus I, wretched with care, removed from my homeland, far from dear
kinsmen, have had to fasten with fetters the thoughts of my heart –
ever since the time, many years ago, that I covered my gold-friend in
the darkness of the earth . . . He who has experienced it knows how
cruel a companion sorrow is to the man who has no beloved
protectors. . . . His sorrow renews as the memory of his kinsmen moves
through his mind: he greets them with glad words, eagerly looks at
them, a company of warriors. Again they fade… ‘Where has the horse
gone? Where the young warrior? Where is the giver of treasure? What
has become of the feasting seats? Where are the joys of the hall?
Alas, the bright cup! Alas, the mailed warrior! Alas, the prince’s
glory! How that time has gone . . .’”

All initial commentary must be posted by midnight Sunday February 5th.

*** Your Responses to other Students ***

In roughly 50-60 words, each student must respond to the posting of
another student. Point out what you agree/disagree with and why,
justifying your opinion with careful reasoning and references to the
scene when appropriate. Be sure your response is significantly
original relative to what has already been posted. Be courteous and
keep your comments focused on students’ writing/ideas. Only respond
to a student who has not yet received feedback.

All responses must be posted by midnight Friday February 10th.

[Xu Zhang]

Through adapting the “The Wanderer”, the scene from “The Lord of the
Rings” emphasizes the significance of Comitatus, an agreement which
involves a vow of loyalty from a Germanic warrior to his lord. In the
scene, King Theoden questions Gamling: “Do you trust your king?” The
latter faithfully responds: “Your men, my lord, will follow you to
whatever end”. In Germanic culture, the breaking of the Comitatus
consists of a lifelong disgrace and infamy. Thus, warriors would
rather die from their heroic acts than betray their lord. Similarly,
in “Beowulf”, when the Danes loose hope on Beowulf, “The [Geats] held
on. They wished, without hope, to behold their lord […].” (1602-1604).
This passage accentuates the importance of Comitatus, because even
though the Geats have also lost hope on Beowulf, they have to remain
on the battlefield until they see their lord, dead or alive. Likewise,
as both versions of “The Wanderer” suggest, solely death is able to
unfetter a warrior from the Comitatus. Therefore, J.R.R. Tolkien/Peter
Jackson’s rewriting and recontextualization do not change “The
Wanderer” and the Germanic culture it conveys.

[Max Renner-Rao]

Both the exile from "The Wanderer" and King Theoden from "The Lord of
the Rings:The Two Towers" give a brief soliloquy on the existence of
men, the former remembering a battle long past, the latter preparing
for one. That a deceased king or warrior only survives in memory, and
not in some glorious afterlife, is a pagan belief which both speakers
compare to the cycle of day and night. "[The exile] covered [his] gold
friend in the darkness of the earth" declares death as being the final
nightfall of man, a statement echoed by Theoden's prediction: "The
days have gone down in the West, behind the hills...into shadow".
Peter Jackson visually reinforces the loss to come by depicting the
battle on a dawn-less day, with great black clouds shrouding the land
as children prepare to go into battle.

On Jan 31, 2:22 am, Andrew Burton <a.bur...@marianopolis.edu> wrote:

[Yichi Zhang]

The Wanderer from the Twin Towers and the poet of Beowulf underlines
the sufferance of an exile; yet, the former banished warrior seems
more sympathetic. In Beowulf, Grendel is the exile by excellence, who
is “marauding round the heath\ and the desolate fens; he had dwelt for
a time\in misery among the banished monsters.” (Donoghue line 104-105)
Both the Wanderer and Grendel suffer from their banishment; a warrior
without kinsmen is no better than a dead one. However, while Grendel
seeks revenge for his punishment, which begins by the fratricide of
his ancestor Cain, the Wanderer from the Twin Towers seems to seek
reconciliation with members of his ex-society: “he greets them [past
kinsmen] with glad words”. Although both authors stress the pain of
the outcast, the Wanderer seems much more likable, understandable.

On Jan 31, 2:22 am, Andrew Burton <a.bur...@marianopolis.edu> wrote:

[Victoria Sayko]

Probably the most important aspect of pagan Germanic culture
presented in this scene is the power the king/ leader had on his
people/tribe. In the Germanic culture, the king had great respect and
was believed to be a great leader. As the leader, his people trusted
him and would follow him into battle. In ‘Beowulf’, the Geats follows
Beowulf and respects the decisions that he makes. Another example of
the respect the Germanic people had for their leader is the fact that
even though Hrothgar was never able to defeat Grendel himself, the
Danes never questioned his authority. He is never over throne, nor
challenged because of the admiration the Danes had for him. As for the
speech during this scene, it is a reference to the poem the
‘Wanderer’. However, in the ‘Wanderer’, the speaking is remembering
the warriors lost during a great battle that had happened. While in
Lord of The Ring, the speaker who is the king is preparing for battle
knowing/believing that his people are going to die. He believes that
there is no hope left for them, but still go for out to war. It shows
that to be a good leader, you must be willing to go into battles even
if there is no possibility of winning. That sometimes you need to lead
your people unwinnable fights because it is the only option. For
example, Beowulf went to fight the dragon at the end of ‘Beowulf’
because he believed it was his duty as a hero and as a leader.

On Jan 31, 2:22 am, Andrew Burton <a.bur...@marianopolis.edu> wrote:

[Yichi Zhang]

Anglo-Saxons must defend their honor even at the risk of losing their
lives by exil. Thus, even when facing death, a warrior must obey to
the ring-giver in order to save his reputation; a man who do not
conform will be banished and death will awaits him.Therefore I agree
with Xu, society is one of the most important concept in Germanic
societies.

[Xu Zhang]

It is true that Germanic kings exert a great power over the people.
However, the latter does not obey their king out of respect and trust,
but of sense of duty. In “Beowulf”, the Geats remain on the
battlefield “without hope” (1604) as Beowulf fights Grendel’s mother.
In addition, Beowulf fights for heroism and glory, not for his people.
Before killing the dragon, he recounts: “He [Hygelac] gave me land and
the security land brings, so he had no call to look for some other
champion […]. And I shall fight like that as long as I live […]
(2492-2499).

[Max Renner-Rao]

Though there is some longing , I think that both the exile from The
Wanderer and Grendel have accepted their positions as outcasts, and
are simply playing out their lives. The distinction between the two
characters lies in how they view community, since the exile "knows how
cruel a companion sorrow is to the man who has no beloved protectors",
a contrast which Grendel never experienced.