Milton Group 2: Alexander Ness, Jessica Michelin, Adrian Carlesimo, Yichi Zhang, Evelyne Shousha
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William Shakespeare
Apr 10, 2012, 9:44:56 PM4/10/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
To illustrate a written text is to offer an interpretation of it.
Through this forum, consider how one or both of the two illustrations
below read Milton’s poem. Your first post, which may be independent
of or in dialogue with another student’s post, is due on Sunday April
15th at midnight. Your second post, which must be in dialogue with
another post, is due on Friday April 20th at midnight. Additional
posts are welcome! Posts that do not satisfactorily meet assignment
criteria and/or are put up after the deadlines will receive a zero.
Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
offensive or insensitive. When disagreeing with someone else, be
courteous and keep your comments focused on the other students’
writing/ideas.
The illustrations (http://www.christs.cam.ac.uk/darknessvisible/
illlustration/index.html#)
- Gustave Dore Pic #29: “‘Hell at last, | Yawning, received them
whole’ (VI.874-75)”
- William Blake Pic #7: “Fall of the rebel angels: ‘headlong
themselves they threw | Down from the verge of heaven, eternal wrath |
Burnt after them to the bottomless pit.’ (VI.864)”
Here are some questions that you might consider:
- What do the illustrations emphasize/de-emphasize in the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from the poem?
- What additions do the illustrations make to the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from each other and what is the
significance of those differences?
- What do you think about the appropriateness of each illustration as
a companion to the poem? Is one illustration more appropriate than
the other? Why?
In answering questions like those above, you might consider one or
more of the following topics:
- Characterization, both in terms of individuals and relationships
between individuals
- Setting (i.e. Hell as a place)
- Plot
- Sexuality
- Gender
- Morality
- Pleasure/pain
- Strength
- Power
- Evocations of specific cultural/historical moments
- Anthropomorphism (i.e. depicting the non-human as human)
- Theology
- England prior to the poem’s composition: politics, war, social
structure, etc.
- Formal elements: style, use of light and darkness, degree of
realism, spatial organization, closeness/distance, the absence of
colour, the use of colour, etc.
Through this forum, consider how one or both of the two illustrations
below read Milton’s poem. Your first post, which may be independent
of or in dialogue with another student’s post, is due on Sunday April
15th at midnight. Your second post, which must be in dialogue with
another post, is due on Friday April 20th at midnight. Additional
posts are welcome! Posts that do not satisfactorily meet assignment
criteria and/or are put up after the deadlines will receive a zero.
Please be respectful of your classmates – do not post anything that is
offensive or insensitive. When disagreeing with someone else, be
courteous and keep your comments focused on the other students’
writing/ideas.
The illustrations (http://www.christs.cam.ac.uk/darknessvisible/
illlustration/index.html#)
- Gustave Dore Pic #29: “‘Hell at last, | Yawning, received them
whole’ (VI.874-75)”
- William Blake Pic #7: “Fall of the rebel angels: ‘headlong
themselves they threw | Down from the verge of heaven, eternal wrath |
Burnt after them to the bottomless pit.’ (VI.864)”
Here are some questions that you might consider:
- What do the illustrations emphasize/de-emphasize in the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from the poem?
- What additions do the illustrations make to the poem?
- How do the illustrations differ from each other and what is the
significance of those differences?
- What do you think about the appropriateness of each illustration as
a companion to the poem? Is one illustration more appropriate than
the other? Why?
In answering questions like those above, you might consider one or
more of the following topics:
- Characterization, both in terms of individuals and relationships
between individuals
- Setting (i.e. Hell as a place)
- Plot
- Sexuality
- Gender
- Morality
- Pleasure/pain
- Strength
- Power
- Evocations of specific cultural/historical moments
- Anthropomorphism (i.e. depicting the non-human as human)
- Theology
- England prior to the poem’s composition: politics, war, social
structure, etc.
- Formal elements: style, use of light and darkness, degree of
realism, spatial organization, closeness/distance, the absence of
colour, the use of colour, etc.
Jessica Michelin
Apr 12, 2012, 4:15:46 PM4/12/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Gustave Dore's woodcarving for the scene "Hell at last, / Yawning,
received the whole" (VI.874-75) emphasizes the earlier references in
Book II that like equate God with the power of thunder and lightning.
God is referred to as "the Thunderer" (II.28). Thunder and lightning
exist together, and between the two, lighting is more easily
illustrated. Dore draws upon this reference in his image, where bolts
of lightning are visible thrusting the fallen angels into Hell.
Dore also successfully manages to transmit the idea of Hell's entrance
acting like a mouth, with darkness that suggests a stomach visible at
the bottom of the image. The image becomes lighter as the eye travels
upwards, and a bright light appears at the top, suggesting the opening
of the mouth that is mentioned in the accompanying quote.
received the whole" (VI.874-75) emphasizes the earlier references in
Book II that like equate God with the power of thunder and lightning.
God is referred to as "the Thunderer" (II.28). Thunder and lightning
exist together, and between the two, lighting is more easily
illustrated. Dore draws upon this reference in his image, where bolts
of lightning are visible thrusting the fallen angels into Hell.
Dore also successfully manages to transmit the idea of Hell's entrance
acting like a mouth, with darkness that suggests a stomach visible at
the bottom of the image. The image becomes lighter as the eye travels
upwards, and a bright light appears at the top, suggesting the opening
of the mouth that is mentioned in the accompanying quote.
Evelyne Shousha
Apr 13, 2012, 9:08:06 PM4/13/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In the woodcarving for “Hell at last, /Yawning, received them whole,
Gustave Dore depicts Hell as a giant gaping hole into which the fallen
angels are sent. The line “Yawning, received them whole” (VI.875) can
be interpreted as “swallowed them whole”. The hole in the woodcarving
could then be compared to a mouth, where whoever falls will forever
disappear into it, swallowed whole by the darkness below.
Gustave Dore also emphasizes the angels as the fallen ones. Although
the line in the poem only says that Hell received them (VI.874-75), he
is taking into account other sections in the poem where the angels
have “now fallen into Hell” (I.8-9). It is made evident, by the motion
of the falling bodies, that the angels are completely helpless. The
drawing highlights their loss of power, as they fall into complete
darkness.
On Apr 10, 9:44 pm, William Shakespeare <andrewelbur...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Gustave Dore depicts Hell as a giant gaping hole into which the fallen
angels are sent. The line “Yawning, received them whole” (VI.875) can
be interpreted as “swallowed them whole”. The hole in the woodcarving
could then be compared to a mouth, where whoever falls will forever
disappear into it, swallowed whole by the darkness below.
Gustave Dore also emphasizes the angels as the fallen ones. Although
the line in the poem only says that Hell received them (VI.874-75), he
is taking into account other sections in the poem where the angels
have “now fallen into Hell” (I.8-9). It is made evident, by the motion
of the falling bodies, that the angels are completely helpless. The
drawing highlights their loss of power, as they fall into complete
darkness.
On Apr 10, 9:44 pm, William Shakespeare <andrewelbur...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Evelyne Shousha
Apr 13, 2012, 9:31:09 PM4/13/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I agree with you about how the lightning bolt accentuates God’s power.
I find it also interesting how the artist uses depth to make God’s
control of the situation even more evident. The origin of the
lightning bolt seems to be very far away, whereas the hole into which
the angels are falling is very close. Gustave Dore is depicting the
idea that Heaven is above the Earth and Hell below it. Even though
this distance seems very big, the lightning bolt is still drawn to
create a link in the space. Its last point nearly touches one of the
angels’ wings. God’s power can still reach the depths of Hell while he
is ruling in Heaven. He has control over them even though they are no
longer in the same world.
I also agree with you second point, since I wrote practically the same
thing without realising it!
I find it also interesting how the artist uses depth to make God’s
control of the situation even more evident. The origin of the
lightning bolt seems to be very far away, whereas the hole into which
the angels are falling is very close. Gustave Dore is depicting the
idea that Heaven is above the Earth and Hell below it. Even though
this distance seems very big, the lightning bolt is still drawn to
create a link in the space. Its last point nearly touches one of the
angels’ wings. God’s power can still reach the depths of Hell while he
is ruling in Heaven. He has control over them even though they are no
longer in the same world.
I also agree with you second point, since I wrote practically the same
thing without realising it!
Adrian Carlesimo
Apr 14, 2012, 2:31:48 PM4/14/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In the woodcarving "Hell at last, /Yawning, received them whole",
Gustave Doré depicts the fallen angels of Satan, routed by God's army,
falling through a hole into the depths of Hell. Other students in the
group have rightly pointed out elements of the carving, such as
lightning and space, that emphasize God's omnipotence. But, I would
take it so far as to say that the lightning God smites the angels with
is an overt comparison with the king of the Greek/Roman pantheon, Zeus/
Jupiter, who wields lightning bolts quite similarly. Moreover, the
angels seem to be dressed in classical Greco-Roman garments, such as
the toga and the round shield, a weapon that was not in use at Milton
or Doré's time.
Furthermore, Doré contrasts the detailed crisp outline of the earth
with the vague smogginess of the underworld. The bright lightning bolt
and crisp root protruding from the well defined rocky earth seem to
conflict with the dark ill-defined clouds of Hell that are engulfing
the fallen angels.
Gustave Doré depicts the fallen angels of Satan, routed by God's army,
falling through a hole into the depths of Hell. Other students in the
group have rightly pointed out elements of the carving, such as
lightning and space, that emphasize God's omnipotence. But, I would
take it so far as to say that the lightning God smites the angels with
is an overt comparison with the king of the Greek/Roman pantheon, Zeus/
Jupiter, who wields lightning bolts quite similarly. Moreover, the
angels seem to be dressed in classical Greco-Roman garments, such as
the toga and the round shield, a weapon that was not in use at Milton
or Doré's time.
Furthermore, Doré contrasts the detailed crisp outline of the earth
with the vague smogginess of the underworld. The bright lightning bolt
and crisp root protruding from the well defined rocky earth seem to
conflict with the dark ill-defined clouds of Hell that are engulfing
the fallen angels.
Adrian Carlesimo
Apr 14, 2012, 2:32:49 PM4/14/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
This isn't a response to Evelyne. Sorry.
Alexander Ness
Apr 15, 2012, 8:30:16 PM4/15/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
In Blake's painting, Fall of the rebel angels, he emphazises that it
is God
who defeats the rebels, showing him firring them all into hell as
though they
were arrows, all at once. He also emphazises this by having the angels
stand around
God, and only look at what he is doing. This follows the poem since in
the poem, more emphasis
is put on God defeating Satan, as though he di it himself. Blake adds
another level to God in this illustration,
showing how God is the most powerful by far, being able to easily fire
Satan and his minions into hell.
These illustartions differ in many ways. Dore's illustartion does not
show God, but only the rebels falling into hell.
Dore shows hell as being an empty spot beneath the ground, while
Blake's depicts hell as described in the poem
as a firey place. Dore also has the rebels with wings and clothed in
the garments angels are depicted in, while Blake
has them naked. This is probably to remind us that they were angels
who rebelled, while Blake showed them suffering even more
by depicting them as humiliated, probably for being traitors to God.
Yichi Zhang
Apr 18, 2012, 12:37:50 AM4/18/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
William Blake's work for the scene “Fall of the rebel angels:
‘headlong
themselves they threw/ Down from the verge of heaven, eternal wrath/
Burnt after them to the bottomless pit’ (VI.864)” depicts the Son of
God defeating the fallen angels and sending them to Hell.
The image emphasizes the glory of the son of God as it shows how he,
an omnipotent God, cast the Rebels out of Heaven. He is surrounded by
angels seemingly praising him. They are surrounded by a burning fire
and are falling "to the bottomless pit". Also, in opposite Christ in
Paradise Lost, Christ in Blake's work is holding a bow, which may
suggest an association with nature.
‘headlong
themselves they threw/ Down from the verge of heaven, eternal wrath/
Burnt after them to the bottomless pit’ (VI.864)” depicts the Son of
God defeating the fallen angels and sending them to Hell.
The image emphasizes the glory of the son of God as it shows how he,
an omnipotent God, cast the Rebels out of Heaven. He is surrounded by
angels seemingly praising him. They are surrounded by a burning fire
and are falling "to the bottomless pit". Also, in opposite Christ in
Paradise Lost, Christ in Blake's work is holding a bow, which may
suggest an association with nature.
Yichi Zhang
Apr 18, 2012, 12:53:55 AM4/18/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
Evelyne, I agree with your formal analysis of the work. The idea of an
hell mouth comes from English 12th century art. Also, a sense of
helplessness does comes from the motion as you said, but also from the
posture of their body and reflected in the gradual fall into darkness
of the work itself. However, these fallen angels still have shield and
weapons, which appears to foreshadow their rebellion once again from
Hell.
On Apr 13, 9:08 pm, Evelyne Shousha <evelyne17soc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
hell mouth comes from English 12th century art. Also, a sense of
helplessness does comes from the motion as you said, but also from the
posture of their body and reflected in the gradual fall into darkness
of the work itself. However, these fallen angels still have shield and
weapons, which appears to foreshadow their rebellion once again from
Hell.
On Apr 13, 9:08 pm, Evelyne Shousha <evelyne17soc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Adrian Carlesimo
Apr 20, 2012, 2:37:14 PM4/20/12
to Literary Survey Section 73
I agree with your idea that the son of God has some sort of natural
quality in the painting. Similarly to Dore's work, Blake seems to
depict heavenly deities in an almost classical light. Here, the son of
god resembles Apollo, the Greek God of the Sun and also of archery.
Jesus with his bow and the pinkish-red circle around him makes
reference to the Sun and archery. These classical themes correspond to
Milton's acknowledgement of Greek and roman divinities such as
chimeras, Discord or even Scylla.
quality in the painting. Similarly to Dore's work, Blake seems to
depict heavenly deities in an almost classical light. Here, the son of
god resembles Apollo, the Greek God of the Sun and also of archery.
Jesus with his bow and the pinkish-red circle around him makes
reference to the Sun and archery. These classical themes correspond to
Milton's acknowledgement of Greek and roman divinities such as
chimeras, Discord or even Scylla.
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