[gentoo-user] New Installation

[the...@sys-concept.com]

I've not install Gentoo for some time and have some questions.

It is Solid State Disk 1TB
I'm using Minimal CD (Bootable USB)
Created three partition (I did not create SWAP as I have 16GB or RAM)
I used "fdisk" and follow the instruction from:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks

Though, I'm a bit confused. I did not see the change root command in
those instructions.
Right now I have a prompt: "livecd ~ #"

and all instruction on the installation page showing: "root #"

I've created a user: "livecd ~ #useradd -m -G users john"
Will it take effect I'm still inside "livecd" environment.

I'm confused a bit.
--
Thelma

[Dale]

It's been a while since I did a install as well plus I'm old as well. I
skimmed your link and don't think you should be creating a user at that
point. If I recall correctly, creating users is done shortly before
rebooting into the new install or even after rebooting. Usually, I do
it after rebooting. Generally, I'm more concerned with my new kernel
booting etc rather than having a user account, besides root of course.
Do set the root password BEFORE booting into the new install. It makes
life easier. ;-)

The chroot command usually comes shortly after downloading and unpacking
the stage3 tarball. Until you have that, you don't have anything to
chroot into yet.

I might add, I like a all in one page guide. For me, it seems easier to
scroll down, do what is there, scroll down some more etc. It being in
sections may be easier for you tho. Use what works. Also, I read over
the guide at least twice before I start. The first time I did a Gentoo
install, I read it half a dozen times in some spots.

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-) :-)

[the...@sys-concept.com]

Thanks Dale, that new installation is not going well.
I've change the environment and my prompt is still: "(chroot) livecd /#"

emerge --sync gives me error:
"/etc/portage/make.conf", line 11: Invalid variable name '-Wl,--hash-style'

Line 11 in make.conf:
USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$

Here is complete make.conf

CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
#LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
MAKEOPTS="-j9"

USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$

CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CPU_FLAGS_X86="3dnow 3dnowext mmx mmxext popcnt sse sse2 sse3 sse4a "

PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
DISTDIR="${PORTDIR}/distfiles"
PKGDIR="${PORTDIR}/packages"

INPUT_DEVICES="evdev"
LINGUAS="en"
L10N="en"
FEATURES="parallel-fetch strict fixlafiles"
#VIDEO_CARDS="fglrx radeon"
#VIDEO_CARDS="nvidia nouveau"
#SANE_BACKENDS="epson2"
#PHP_TARGETS="php5-5 php5-6"
#PHP_INI_VERSION="production"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="${ACCEPT_LICENSE} googleearth PUEL dlj-1.1 Oracle-BCLA-JavaSE"

EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--autounmask-write=y --keep-going --with-bdeps=y --jobs 3"

GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/ http://gentoo.osuosl.org/ ftp://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/ http://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-b$

PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTAGE_TMPFS="/dev/shm"
PORTAGE_NICENESS=3
AUTOCLEAN="yes"

Why isn't "emerge --sync" working?
It seems to me the chroot did not work correctly.

This new manual is not compete and/or accurate :-/

--
Thelma

[Dale]

On the USE line, what is that t$ on the end? Never seen that before.
Don't forget to do the close quote on the end too. I don't see that
there. That could cause issues. I'm not familiar with the hash part it
is complaining about. I do know this. The number 1 and the letter l
look a awful lot alike on some fonts. Make sure you get the right one
on that. Same for the number 0 and the letter O as well. It will get
the best of us all at times. I've been known to cheat and use copy and
paste. That takes out the person in the chair error. :-D

I did the last install a few years ago which I think was before the move
to the wiki thing. I went digging around. I hope I don't have to do a
install anytime soon. I may refer back to my old printout in the shed.
I'm not a big fan of the new thing either. I did find this tho.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Complete_Handbook

If you scroll down to the installing section, you may can find something
better there. I hope you do because so far, I'm liking my old printout
more and more.

Dale

:-) :-)

[the...@sys-concept.com]

That t$ is just cut/copy error, the correct version is:

USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner

gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl type1 opengl tetexspell consolkit dbus pam
policykit jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar cleartype
corefonts -systemd -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS abi_x86_32"

That what makes me confused it doesn't matter what I use, if I comment
that line out and use:
USE="bindist"

This idiotic installation even complain about GENTOO_MIRROR entry:
"/etc/portage/make.conf", line 29: Invalid variable name '-Wl,--hash-style'

and line 29 is this:

GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/
ftp://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/

http://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/download/gentoo-mirror/
ftp://linux.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/gentoo-mirror/
ftp://ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de/mirrors/gentoo/
http://ftp.spline.inf.fu-berlin.de/mirrors/gentoo/"

I can figure it out what am I doing wrong. I've install so many system
in the past but never had so many problems.

I'll either have to try from the scratch or switch to a different distro :-(

--
Thelma

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 12:48 AM, Dale wrote:

> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>> On 02/03/2017 11:19 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>>>> I've not install Gentoo for some time and have some questions.
>>>>
>>>> It is Solid State Disk 1TB
>>>> I'm using Minimal CD (Bootable USB)
>>>> Created three partition (I did not create SWAP as I have 16GB or RAM)
>>>> I used "fdisk" and follow the instruction from:
>>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks
>>>>
>>>> Though, I'm a bit confused. I did not see the change root command in
>>>> those instructions.
>>>> Right now I have a prompt: "livecd ~ #"
>>>>

[snip]

This is my make.conf
# These settings were set by the catalyst build script that automatically
# built this stage.
# Please consult /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example for a more
# detailed example.

CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"

MAKEOPTS="-j9"

USE="bindist"

# WARNING: Changing your CHOST is not something that should be done lightly.
# Please consult http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/change-chost.xml before changing.
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
# These are the USE and USE_EXPAND flags that were used for
# buidling in addition to what is provided by the profile.

USE="bindist"

PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
DISTDIR="${PORTDIR}/distfiles"
PKGDIR="${PORTDIR}/packages"

GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/ http://gentoo.osuosl.org/"

INPUT_DEVICES="evdev"
LINGUAS="en"
L10N="en"

PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTAGE_TMPFS="/dev/shm"
PORTAGE_NICENESS=3
AUTOCLEAN="yes"

and emerge --sync is giving me an error:

"/etc/portage/make.conf", line 34: No closing quotation
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/lib/python-exec/python3.4/emerge", line 50, in <module>
retval = emerge_main()
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/_emerge/main.py", line 1196, in emerge_main
action=myaction, args=myfiles, opts=myopts)
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/portage/proxy/objectproxy.py", line 31, in __call__
return result(*args, **kwargs)
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/_emerge/actions.py", line 2403, in load_emerge_config
**kwargs)
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/portage/__init__.py", line 585, in create_trees
env=env, eprefix=eprefix)
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/portage/package/ebuild/config.py", line 358, in __init__
expand=make_conf, recursive=True)
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/portage/util/__init__.py", line 659, in getconfig
recursive=False) or {})
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/site-packages/portage/util/__init__.py", line 718, in getconfig
key = _unicode_decode(lex.get_token())
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/shlex.py", line 93, in get_token
raw = self.read_token()
File "/usr/lib64/python3.4/shlex.py", line 169, in read_token
raise ValueError("No closing quotation")
ValueError: No closing quotation

There is nothing on line 34

--
Thelma

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 01:20 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote:

> Please sanitize your make.conf file.
> I am seeing some lines ending with $.
> Not all lines have the closing quotes.
>
> Your global USE flags contain some that no longer exist (Dale's favourite "hal" being one of them :) )
>
> Also, I have 32GB ram in my desktop and I do have a swap partition. When I am working, it does get used.
> Software keeps using more memory. So do 27 cc jobs (jobs 9 for make and jobs 3 for emerge).
>
> I would re-condiser not using swap unless you are certain you will never need more than 16gb. (Eg. No graphical desktop running a few webbrowsers)
>
> --
> Joost

Good suggestion. I'll start from scratch tomorrow.
Most of the make.conf I just copied from my old working system :-/

--
Thelma

[J. Roeleveld]

On February 4, 2017 8:22:45 AM GMT+01:00, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

Please sanitize your make.conf file.
I am seeing some lines ending with $.
Not all lines have the closing quotes.

Your global USE flags contain some that no longer exist (Dale's favourite "hal" being one of them :) )

Also, I have 32GB ram in my desktop and I do have a swap partition. When I am working, it does get used.
Software keeps using more memory. So do 27 cc jobs (jobs 9 for make and jobs 3 for emerge).

I would re-condiser not using swap unless you are certain you will never need more than 16gb. (Eg. No graphical desktop running a few webbrowsers)

--
Joost

--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Mick]

I'd exit, reboot with LiveUSB, 'mount /dev/sda? /mnt/gentoo' and additional
partitions as mentioned on this page, then chroot properly:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Base

--
Regards,
Mick

[Mick]

On Saturday 04 Feb 2017 01:24:05 the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> On 02/04/2017 12:48 AM, Dale wrote:
> > the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> >> On 02/03/2017 11:19 PM, Dale wrote:
> >>> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> >>>> I've not install Gentoo for some time and have some questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is Solid State Disk 1TB
> >>>> I'm using Minimal CD (Bootable USB)
> >>>> Created three partition (I did not create SWAP as I have 16GB or RAM)
> >>>> I used "fdisk" and follow the instruction from:
> >>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Disks
> >>>>
> >>>> Though, I'm a bit confused. I did not see the change root command in
> >>>> those instructions.
> >>>> Right now I have a prompt: "livecd ~ #"
>
> [snip]
>
> This is my make.conf
> # These settings were set by the catalyst build script that automatically
> # built this stage.
> # Please consult /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example for a more
> # detailed example.
>
> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe

There is a double quotation mark " missing at the end of the above line.

> CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
> MAKEOPTS="-j9"
>
> USE="bindist"
>
> # WARNING: Changing your CHOST is not something that should be done lightly.
> # Please consult http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/change-chost.xml before
> changing. CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
> # These are the USE and USE_EXPAND flags that were used for
> # buidling in addition to what is provided by the profile.
>
> USE="bindist"

The above is a duplicate entry.

> PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
> DISTDIR="${PORTDIR}/distfiles"
> PKGDIR="${PORTDIR}/packages"
>
> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/
> http://gentoo.osuosl.org/"
>
> INPUT_DEVICES="evdev"
> LINGUAS="en"
> L10N="en"
>
> PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
> PORTAGE_TMPFS="/dev/shm"
> PORTAGE_NICENESS=3
> AUTOCLEAN="yes"
>
> and emerge --sync is giving me an error:
>
> "/etc/portage/make.conf", line 34: No closing quotation

Yes, I've noted the same above.

Thelma, you may be too tired or rushing through this exercise to pay enough
attention to important details. Perhaps you need to take a break and revisit
it afresh later?
--
Regards,
Mick

[J. Roeleveld]

Check your CFLAGS line.

I am missing the quotation at the end there.

[J. Roeleveld]

>Thelma, you may be too tired or rushing through this exercise to pay
>enough
>attention to important details. Perhaps you need to take a break and
>revisit
>it afresh later?

This is one of the best advise ever :)

Never do an installation when tired or in a hurry.

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
> Please sanitize your make.conf file.
> I am seeing some lines ending with $.
> Not all lines have the closing quotes.
>
> Your global USE flags contain some that no longer exist (Dale's favourite "hal" being one of them :) )
>
> Also, I have 32GB ram in my desktop and I do have a swap partition. When I am working, it does get used.
> Software keeps using more memory. So do 27 cc jobs (jobs 9 for make and jobs 3 for emerge).
>
> I would re-condiser not using swap unless you are certain you will never need more than 16gb. (Eg. No graphical desktop running a few webbrowsers)
>
> --
> Joost

I have 16GBs here and it uses swap more than I like. I set swapiness to
like 10, 5 or some really low number and it still runs low and has to
use it. It's usually during updates too. If LOo and a web browser like
Seamonkey or Firefox updates at the same time, it gets ugly, quick. I'm
wanting to upgrade to 32GBs now. I suspect before long, that won't be
enough either. Then comes a new mobo, new ram, new CPU etc etc. Oh
crap, new install, bad wiki. o_O

Even if I upgrade to 32GBs, I'd still have swap. It may only be a few
GBs but I'll still have some.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Mick]

If the OP does not want to create a partition just for swap, a swap file will
do the same job.
--
Regards,
Mick

[Mick]

I forgot to mention, btrfs will not support swap files ... yet. A different
fs type will be required in this case.
--
Regards,
Mick

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:22:45 -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

> emerge --sync gives me error:
> "/etc/portage/make.conf", line 11: Invalid variable name
> '-Wl,--hash-style'
>
> Line 11 in make.conf:
> USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner
> gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$
>
> Here is complete make.conf
>
> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe
> CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
> #LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
> MAKEOPTS="-j9"
>
> USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner
> gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$

It reports line 11 because that's the end of the file, when the error
becomes apparent. The actual error is the missing closing quote on
CFLAGS.


--
Neil Bothwick

Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving to where you
can't find them.

[Dale]

Yea, I've used that at times myself. The biggest thing, don't run out
of memory and not have any swap. Using swap is slow but it's better
than crashing. I only have 1GB here. At times, the swap file gets
added. I should have made it bigger. Live and learn.

Dale

:-) :-)

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 01:33 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote:
[snip]

>> [snip]
>>
>> This is my make.conf
>> # These settings were set by the catalyst build script that
>> automatically
>> # built this stage.
>> # Please consult /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example for a more
>> # detailed example.
>>
>> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe
>> CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
>> MAKEOPTS="-j9"
>>

[snip]

>
> Check your CFLAGS line.
>
> I am missing the quotation at the end there.
>
> --
> Joost

Thank you for pointer, yes that might have been it.
As Mick suggested in next post. It was late; I'm upgrading old boxes
installing a Gentoo on a new one. A bit too much in one day :-)

Need some rest.

--
Thelma

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 01:20 AM, J. Roeleveld wrote:

You might be correct, I'm reinstalling from fresh today so I'll put SWAP
back. Question, how much swap should I allocate? Isn't the unwritten
rule RAM * 2 so 32GB of swap partition? or RAM * 1.5

--
Thelma

[J. Roeleveld]

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:18:50 AM CET the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

> You might be correct, I'm reinstalling from fresh today so I'll put SWAP
> back. Question, how much swap should I allocate? Isn't the unwritten
> rule RAM * 2 so 32GB of swap partition? or RAM * 1.5

I wouldn't do that much. Immagine how much you need on a higher end server
with 512MB.... :)

I have 32GB of ram.
8GB as swap.

--
Joost

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 04:28 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:22:45 -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>
>> emerge --sync gives me error:
>> "/etc/portage/make.conf", line 11: Invalid variable name
>> '-Wl,--hash-style'
>>
>> Line 11 in make.conf:
>> USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
>> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner
>> gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$
>>
>> Here is complete make.conf
>>
>> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe
>> CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
>> #LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
>> MAKEOPTS="-j9"
>>
>> USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
>> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner
>> gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$
>
> It reports line 11 because that's the end of the file, when the error
> becomes apparent. The actual error is the missing closing quote on
> CFLAGS.

Thanks Neil, yes somebody pointed out to me yesterday. I guess I was
too in a rush yesterday trying to make it to work and during cut/past I
had missed this one.

--
Thelma

[Alan McKinnon]

Size of swap is the classic cargo-cult question, and most folks are
blindly going along with twice total ram - a rule-of-thumb that has been
around for 20 years and seldom questioned.

Why twice ram? Can anyone show me the workout where this achieves an
optimal result? The plain answer is no, no-one can show that because
it's not a rule, it was never worked out by someone with clue and it's a
guideline that someone sucked out of their thumb.

It started back in the day when 16M was a *lot* of memory, and services
like Apache would stress 16M quite a lot (it only takes a few hits of
very big pages to come close to running out of ram). So someone figured
out that 32M swap was a good compromise; it's about 5-10% of the size of
disks we had back then and 32M is read back from an MFM drive fast
enough that the user doesn't get impatient waiting. I'm not making this up!

Move forward to the present day.
What happens when you run out of RAM? You get an out-of-memory error
that a decent app will handle gracefully.
What happens when you have swap and run out of RAM? The kernel starts to
use disk, and goes krunch krunch krunch very slowly for quite a while,
and then you get an out-of-memory error that a decent app will handle
gracefully...
Plus usually when an app starts thrashing to disk, the kernel starts to
struggle mightily and a runaway process starts where slow access causes
more things to swap, which makes even more swap, and then the system
runs out of memory anyway

So why are you using swap at all these days with 16G being common? Do
people have any concept how much memory that is, and what it takes to
fill it? (I've only managed to achieve that with dodgy flash apps on
dodgy sites...)

My advice is to not use swap. Yes, it is counter-intuitive and yes it
goes against the advice you see all over the internet from 1996, and
many people will swear blind that twice ram is perfect ad are terrified
to say otherwise because then they will have been wrong. But I can show
that the advice is cargo-culted and I can show that no-one can defend
that advice. The solution to running out of memory is to get more RAM
(or fix the app that leaks).

Modern kernels DO get nervous if they have no swap at all - it's used
internally. So make a small amount of swap to make the kernel happy, say
64M or so. Yes, megs.

And if your machine sleeps to disk you will need swap large enough to
store the memory image - it has to go somewhere and that is swap.

That's my advice. Now let the nay-sayers begin the argument


--
Alan McKinnon
alan.m...@gmail.com

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 04 Feb 2017 17:32:53 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> Modern kernels DO get nervous if they have no swap at all - it's used
> internally. So make a small amount of swap to make the kernel happy, say
> 64M or so. Yes, megs.
>
> And if your machine sleeps to disk you will need swap large enough to
> store the memory image - it has to go somewhere and that is swap.
>
> That's my advice. Now let the nay-sayers begin the argument

No argument from me, Alan. It isn't just the kernel that gets nervous - I do
too if I don't have any swap available. I have 32 GB and an 8 GB swap, which
I'm thinking of reducing (the swap, that is). My SSD is only 256 GB and my
boinc partition has filled up today, so I need to recover some unused space.

--
Regards
Peter

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Feb 04, 2017 at 08:18:50AM -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote

> Question, how much swap should I allocate? Isn't the unwritten
> rule RAM * 2 so 32GB of swap partition? or RAM * 1.5

As others have pointed out, that's probably too much in today's
scenarios. One minimum... if you ever intend to use suspend-to-disk,
you obviously need enough swap space to store the contents of RAM. In
that case, RAM + 4 gigabytes should suffice. Otherwise, 8 gigabytes
looks OK, unless it's a server that gets pounded on.

--
Walter Dnes <walt...@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Size of swap is the classic cargo-cult question,

++

>
> Modern kernels DO get nervous if they have no swap at all - it's used
> internally. So make a small amount of swap to make the kernel happy, say
> 64M or so. Yes, megs.
>

So, uh, I'd be interested in some kind of citation for this, mainly
because it also sounds a bit like cargo cult advice. :)

What exactly doesn't work without swap, because I've been running
without it for years?

--
Rich

[the...@sys-concept.com]

On 02/04/2017 04:28 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 00:22:45 -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>
>> emerge --sync gives me error:
>> "/etc/portage/make.conf", line 11: Invalid variable name
>> '-Wl,--hash-style'
>>
>> Line 11 in make.conf:
>> USE="-qt4 -hal -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk dvd alsa cdr cups apache2 ssl
>> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev java tiff png usb scanner
>> gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl t$
>>
>> Here is complete make.conf
>>
>> CFLAGS="-march=native -O2 -pipe

Yes, missing " at the end was the problem.

However, I restarted from scratch and now even on a new installation I'm getting a lot of errors:

Failed to emerge www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9, Log file:
>>> '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/temp/build.log'
*** Resuming merge...
* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/pambase-20150213 dropped because it requires
* >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6[pam]
* emerge --keep-going: net-print/cups-filters-1.5.0 dropped because it
* requires >=app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.09, >=net-print/cups-1.7.3, >=app-
* text/poppler-0.32:=[cxx,jpeg,lcms,tiff,xpdf-headers(+)], sys-apps/dbus
* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/polkit-0.113 dropped because it requires
* >=gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105, sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]
* emerge --keep-going: dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.6-r1 dropped because it requires
* ~dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6[accessibility,-aqua,-debug,qt3support,abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/consolekit-1.1.0-r1 dropped because it
* requires >=sys-auth/polkit-0.110, sys-apps/dbus
* emerge --keep-going: net-print/cups-2.1.4 dropped because it requires
* x11-misc/xdg-utils, >=net-print/cups-filters-1.0.43, >=sys-
* apps/dbus-1.6.18-r1[abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: app-text/poppler-0.45.0 dropped because it requires
* dev-qt/qtgui:4
* emerge --keep-going: virtual/w3m-0 dropped because it requires www-
* client/w3m
* emerge --keep-going: x11-libs/gtk+-3.20.9 dropped because it requires
* >=net-print/cups-1.2[abi_x86_64(-)], >=app-accessibility/at-
* spi2-atk-2.5.3[abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6-r4 dropped because it requires net-
* print/cups[abi_x86_64(-)], ~dev-
* qt/qt3support-4.8.6[-aqua,-debug,abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: sys-apps/dbus-1.10.12 dropped because it requires app-
* text/xmlto
* emerge --keep-going: app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.20.2 dropped because
* it requires >=sys-apps/dbus-1[abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1 dropped because it requires
* virtual/w3m
* emerge --keep-going: app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.20.1 dropped because
* it requires >=sys-apps/dbus-1.5[abi_x86_64(-)], >=app-accessibility/at-
* spi2-core-2.17.90[abi_x86_64(-)]
* emerge --keep-going: gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105-r1 dropped because it
* requires x11-libs/gtk+:3, >=sys-auth/polkit-0.102
* emerge --keep-going: x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.1-r1 dropped because it
* requires >=app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1[text(+)]
* emerge --keep-going: app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.15-r1 dropped because it
* requires x11-libs/gtk+:3, >=net-print/cups-1.3.8, sys-apps/dbus

* Messages for package www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9:

* ERROR: www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9::gentoo failed (compile phase):
* emake failed
*
* If you need support, post the output of `emerge --info '=www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9::gentoo'`,
* the complete build log and the output of `emerge -pqv '=www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9::gentoo'`.
* The complete build log is located at '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/temp/build.log'.
* The ebuild environment file is located at '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/temp/environment'.
* Working directory: '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/work/w3m-0.5.3.git20161120'
* S: '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/work/w3m-0.5.3.git20161120'

* Messages for package sys-auth/pambase-20150213:

* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/pambase-20150213 dropped because it requires
* >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.6[pam]

* Messages for package net-print/cups-filters-1.5.0:

* emerge --keep-going: net-print/cups-filters-1.5.0 dropped because it
* requires >=app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.09, >=net-print/cups-1.7.3, >=app-
* text/poppler-0.32:=[cxx,jpeg,lcms,tiff,xpdf-headers(+)], sys-apps/dbus

* Messages for package sys-auth/polkit-0.113:

* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/polkit-0.113 dropped because it requires
* >=gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105, sys-auth/consolekit[policykit]

* Messages for package dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.6-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.6-r1 dropped because it requires
* ~dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6[accessibility,-aqua,-debug,qt3support,abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package sys-auth/consolekit-1.1.0-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: sys-auth/consolekit-1.1.0-r1 dropped because it
* requires >=sys-auth/polkit-0.110, sys-apps/dbus

* Messages for package net-print/cups-2.1.4:

* emerge --keep-going: net-print/cups-2.1.4 dropped because it requires
* x11-misc/xdg-utils, >=net-print/cups-filters-1.0.43, >=sys-
* apps/dbus-1.6.18-r1[abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package app-text/poppler-0.45.0:

* emerge --keep-going: app-text/poppler-0.45.0 dropped because it requires
* dev-qt/qtgui:4

* Messages for package virtual/w3m-0:

* emerge --keep-going: virtual/w3m-0 dropped because it requires www-
* client/w3m

* Messages for package x11-libs/gtk+-3.20.9:

* emerge --keep-going: x11-libs/gtk+-3.20.9 dropped because it requires
* >=net-print/cups-1.2[abi_x86_64(-)], >=app-accessibility/at-
* spi2-atk-2.5.3[abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6-r4:

* emerge --keep-going: dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6-r4 dropped because it requires net-
* print/cups[abi_x86_64(-)], ~dev-
* qt/qt3support-4.8.6[-aqua,-debug,abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package sys-apps/dbus-1.10.12:

* emerge --keep-going: sys-apps/dbus-1.10.12 dropped because it requires app-
* text/xmlto

* Messages for package app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.20.2:

* emerge --keep-going: app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.20.2 dropped because
* it requires >=sys-apps/dbus-1[abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1 dropped because it requires
* virtual/w3m

* Messages for package app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.20.1:

* emerge --keep-going: app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.20.1 dropped because
* it requires >=sys-apps/dbus-1.5[abi_x86_64(-)], >=app-accessibility/at-
* spi2-core-2.17.90[abi_x86_64(-)]

* Messages for package gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105-r1 dropped because it
* requires x11-libs/gtk+:3, >=sys-auth/polkit-0.102

* Messages for package x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.1-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.1-r1 dropped because it
* requires >=app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1[text(+)]

* Messages for package app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.15-r1:

* emerge --keep-going: app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.15-r1 dropped because it
* requires x11-libs/gtk+:3, >=net-print/cups-1.3.8, sys-apps/dbus
*
* The following 18 packages have failed to build, install, or execute
* postinst:
*
* (www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge), Log file:
* '/var/tmp/portage/www-client/w3m-0.5.3-r9/temp/build.log'
* (sys-auth/pambase-20150213:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (net-print/cups-filters-1.5.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (sys-auth/polkit-0.113:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (dev-qt/qt3support-4.8.6-r1:4/4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (sys-auth/consolekit-1.1.0-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (net-print/cups-2.1.4:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (app-text/poppler-0.45.0:0/62::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (virtual/w3m-0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (x11-libs/gtk+-3.20.9:3/3::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (dev-qt/qtgui-4.8.6-r4:4/4::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (sys-apps/dbus-1.10.12:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (app-accessibility/at-spi2-core-2.20.2:2/2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (app-text/xmlto-0.0.26-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (app-accessibility/at-spi2-atk-2.20.1:2/2::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
* (app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.15-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

This is new installation following gentoo hand-book on line :-/

--
Thelma

[J. Roeleveld]

Please start with the default USE flags in your make.conf file.
Also use the standard/defauly profile. (If you want systemd, please select that the minimal systemd one)

Make sure you have an installation that can boot into a text console where you can login and have basic networking.

Then, change your profile if needed. If changed, do a rebuild using:
# emerge -auDN @world

After that, install anything else you need, keeping the list on the commandline managable.

Adjust USE flags as needed. Try to keep changing the global set (the one in your make.conf) to an absolute minimal. Mine only has 3 items. I kept the default, minus bindist.

[Alan McKinnon]

On 04/02/2017 18:12, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Size of swap is the classic cargo-cult question,
>
> ++
>
>>
>> Modern kernels DO get nervous if they have no swap at all - it's used
>> internally. So make a small amount of swap to make the kernel happy, say
>> 64M or so. Yes, megs.
>>
>
> So, uh, I'd be interested in some kind of citation for this, mainly
> because it also sounds a bit like cargo cult advice. :)

hehe, clever. I saw what you did there :-)

You can cite me, and my own observations on my and my employers'
machines - I routinely add a 64M swap partition as a first cut and have
no problems with it so far. If a machine runs out of memory, I add more
(most work servers are VMs so adding more is trivial).

If that is ideal, or a good value, I have no idea as I wasn't writing a
research paper, rather finding an empirical value that worked

> What exactly doesn't work without swap, because I've been running
> without it for years?

I really should revisit this topic with current kernels, my fiddling was
done some time ago and things may well have changed.

I recall getting some error that only having a small swap fixed. Lousy
answer, I know, so if anyone has real current facts, I'm all ears.

--
Alan McKinnon
alan.m...@gmail.com

[Alan McKinnon]

I'd be much more nervous about swap on SSD tbh.

I can't imagine that working well, by it's nature swap is write-heavy

--
Alan McKinnon
alan.m...@gmail.com

[Bill Kenworthy]

The original 2x size was because very old unix systems when they crash
dumped use swap as the crash device. Further a crash dump back then
included a 1 to 1 dump of ram, hence the size. A Solaris web page I
just looked at mentions swap as the "dump device". Not sure when if
ever this applied to Linux in that context.

Things where you need a lot of swap:
hibernate if you use the swap device to hibernate - you need enough room
for your normal swap content and the image

Graphics - holding very large images in ram

special cases

I am currently using SSD's for swap (MS surface 4, intel ssd's and
samsung ssd's) as well as an apple air for 2 years I no longer use.

My oldest was used for ceph for 12 months before re-purposing as a
server OS, swap and bcache - performance was average and best you could
say was it was faster than spinning rust.

Current I have two systems with a OS+swap on one ssd and a btrfs raid10
on bcache on ssd - one backed with 4xDW reds, and the other with 4x WD
greens.

No failures yet - the majority of the HDD drives were part of LVM
volumes in the past and the current systems have "evolved" rather than
being bought for a carefully planned system.

I dont think that SSD age is really relevant for modern uses (though in
bulk buys I seen quite high early failure rates but that settled down
quickly.

I currently use:
vm.swappiness=1
vm.vfs_cache_pressure=50

and

olympus ~ # free -h
total used free shared buff/cache
available
Mem: 31G 30G 549M 216K 285M
609M
Swap: 23G 16G 8.0G
olympus ~ #

[Dale]

the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>
> You might be correct, I'm reinstalling from fresh today so I'll put SWAP
> back. Question, how much swap should I allocate? Isn't the unwritten
> rule RAM * 2 so 32GB of swap partition? or RAM * 1.5
>
> --
> Thelma
>
>

This is like asking what brand of hard drive to buy. Or what brand of
Mobo or even memory itself. There is usually no right answer.

I have 16GBs of memory. I have 1GB of swap. Sometimes I wish I had
more swap but for the most part, I wish I had more memory. When it
starts using swap, this otherwise fast rig gets dead dog slow. If I hit
ctrl F3 to switch to the desktop where Konsole is parked, it takes quite
a while to switch. So, I don't like it using any swap at all but it is
better than it killing processes to keep it chugging along.

The best advice, take past experience from how you use your system and
what you do with it and use that, maybe even add just a small amount to
be safe. If you've never had a system use swap with the amount of
memory you have, have a small swap, for just in case. If you have ran
into situations where you have had to use swap because you don't have
enough memory, may want to make swap bigger.

On Alan's advice, keep in mind, Alan manages and deals with tons of
servers. He's likely seen some strange setups that either are overdone
or underdone and learned from it. One can learn a lot from overkill and
underkill. As with anything, you don't want to waste space with to much
swap but if it comes to it, you want enough to keep you from crashing.

How's that for advice? lol

Dale

:-) :-)

[Peter Humphrey]

Just as well that it's hardly ever used, then. :)

--
Regards
Peter

[the...@sys-concept.com]

[snip]

>> * (gnome-extra/polkit-gnome-0.105-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for
>> merge)
>> * (x11-misc/xdg-utils-1.1.1-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for
>> merge)
>> * (app-text/ghostscript-gpl-9.15-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for
>> merge)
>>
>> This is new installation following gentoo hand-book on line :-/
>>
>> --
>> Thelma
>
> Please start with the default USE flags in your make.conf file.
> Also use the standard/defauly profile. (If you want systemd, please select that the minimal systemd one)
>
> Make sure you have an installation that can boot into a text console where you can login and have basic networking.
>
> Then, change your profile if needed. If changed, do a rebuild using:
> # emerge -auDN @world
>
> After that, install anything else you need, keeping the list on the commandline managable.
>
> Adjust USE flags as needed. Try to keep changing the global set (the one in your make.conf) to an absolute minimal. Mine only has 3 items. I kept the default, minus bindist.
>
> --
> Joost

I change in make.conf to:
USE="bindist"

and I was able to install basic system correctly, network is working and I can proceed with castomazation but
my next question: What is the correct way to configure "USE=" in make.conf?

When I use a below: (copied from my other systems):

USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev tiff png usb scanner gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl type1 opengl tetexspell consolkit dbus pam policykit jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar cleartype corefonts -systemd -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS abi_x86_32"

PS. I think "dbus" is no longer used, isn't it?

I get a log of blockers and my file "package.use" starting to look like trash can with entries like:

# required by x11-libs/libxcb-1.12::gentoo
# required by x11-apps/xwininfo-1.1.3::gentoo
# required by x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.36::gentoo
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-session-4.12.1-r1::gentoo[xscreensaver]
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta-4.12::gentoo
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta (argument)
>=x11-libs/libXau-1.0.8 abi_x86_32
# required by x11-libs/libxcb-1.12::gentoo
# required by x11-apps/xwininfo-1.1.3::gentoo
# required by x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.36::gentoo
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-session-4.12.1-r1::gentoo[xscreensaver]
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta-4.12::gentoo
# required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta (argument)
>=dev-libs/libpthread-stubs-0.3-r1 abi_x86_32

If I try to use my USE="-qt4 ... etc" and try to emerge:
emerge --ask xfce-base/xfce4-meta

I get tones of blockers and problem solving eg.:

[blocks B ] dev-util/pkgconf[pkg-config] ("dev-util/pkgconf[pkg-config]" is blocking dev-util/pkgconfig-0.28-r2)
[blocks B ] media-libs/libjpeg-turbo:0 ("media-libs/libjpeg-turbo:0" is blocking media-libs/jpeg-8d-r1)
[blocks B ] media-libs/jpeg:0 ("media-libs/jpeg:0" is blocking media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-1.5.0)
[blocks B ] sys-fs/udev ("sys-fs/udev" is blocking sys-fs/eudev-3.1.5)
[blocks B ] dev-util/pkgconfig ("dev-util/pkgconfig" is blocking dev-util/pkgconf-0.9.12)

* Error: The above package list contains packages which cannot be
* installed at the same time on the same system.

(dev-util/pkgconf-0.9.12:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=dev-util/pkgconf-0.9.3-r1[pkg-config,abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=dev-util/pkgconf-0.9.3-r1[pkg-config,abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/pkgconfig-0-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(sys-fs/eudev-3.1.5:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=sys-fs/eudev-1.3 required by (virtual/udev-215:0/0::gentoo, installed)
>=sys-fs/eudev-1.3:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?,static-libs?] (>=sys-fs/eudev-1.3:0/0[abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/libudev-215-r1:0/1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(sys-fs/udev-225-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?,static-libs?] (>=sys-fs/udev-208-r1:0/0[abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/libudev-215-r1:0/1::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)
>=sys-fs/udev-208-r1 required by (virtual/udev-215:0/0::gentoo, installed)

(dev-util/pkgconfig-0.28-r2:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=dev-util/pkgconfig-0.28-r1[abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=dev-util/pkgconfig-0.28-r1[abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/pkgconfig-0-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(media-libs/jpeg-8d-r1:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=media-libs/jpeg-8d-r1:0[static-libs?,abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=media-libs/jpeg-8d-r1:0[abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/jpeg-0-r2:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

(media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-1.5.0:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge) pulled in by
>=media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-1.3.0-r3:0[static-libs?,abi_x86_32(-)?,abi_x86_64(-)?,abi_x86_x32(-)?,abi_mips_n32(-)?,abi_mips_n64(-)?,abi_mips_o32(-)?,abi_ppc_32(-)?,abi_ppc_64(-)?,abi_s390_32(-)?,abi_s390_64(-)?] (>=media-libs/libjpeg-turbo-1.3.0-r3:0[abi_x86_32(-),abi_x86_64(-)]) required by (virtual/jpeg-0-r2:0/0::gentoo, ebuild scheduled for merge)

--
Thelma

[J. Roeleveld]

I can have a better look later.
But start with removing 'abi_x86_32'. With that you are forcing everything to be build for 32bit. It is best to let portage handle that.

I don't know why you have 'DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS' in that list. Not sure if that is a valid one.

Package.use can be a directory containing seperate files. Portage reads all of them in sorted order. This way you can keep track why you set a useflag for a certain package.

[Dale]

the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
>
> I change in make.conf to:
> USE="bindist"
>
> and I was able to install basic system correctly, network is working and I can proceed with castomazation but
> my next question: What is the correct way to configure "USE=" in make.conf?
>
> When I use a below: (copied from my other systems):
>
> USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev tiff png usb scanner gimp gimpprint cgi fam nptl type1 opengl tetexspell consolkit dbus pam policykit jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar cleartype corefonts -systemd -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS abi_x86_32"
>
> PS. I think "dbus" is no longer used, isn't it?

> <<< SNIP >>>
> --
> Thelma
>
>


Ask anyone, I'm different on the way I do USE flags, or I feel that
way. If I have a flag that I want enabled/disabled on basically
everything that uses that flag, it goes in make.conf. If I have a USE
flag that I may need for just a few packages, or a single package, I put
it in package.use. As a example. The kde USE flag. Since I run mostly
KDE and want any packages I build to work with KDE, it goes in
make.conf. To go with the other direction on this. qt4 and qt5. Some
packages work or look better with one or the other. For those
exceptions, I use package.use to set those. Since emerge reads
package.use last, those setting apply.

Basically, make.conf is the rule for USE flags. Package.use is for
exceptions to that rule.

As usual, do what makes the most sense to you. I post this just in case
this way may make sense, not that much of anything I do makes sense to
anyone else. ;-)

Dale

:-) :-)

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 05 Feb 2017 01:44:30 Dale wrote:

> Ask anyone, I'm different on the way I do USE flags, or I feel that
> way. If I have a flag that I want enabled/disabled on basically
> everything that uses that flag, it goes in make.conf. If I have a USE
> flag that I may need for just a few packages, or a single package, I put
> it in package.use.

The devs have already made that choice, though of course you don't have to
follow them.

> Basically, make.conf is the rule for USE flags. Package.use is for
> exceptions to that rule.

Or, if the USE flag is documented in /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc it's for
general application and you put it in make.conf, and if it's in
/usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc it applies to one or a few specific
packages and you put it in package.use.

Then you just have to decide how to arrange you package.use directory. This
is mine, in case it helps anyone:

# ls /etc/portage/package.use
boinc firefox firmware iputils qtwebengine runtime-meta xorg

# cat /etc/portage/package.use/xorg
media-libs/mesa -vaapi
sys-devel/llvm clang video_cards_radeon
x11-libs/libdrm video_cards_radeon

# cat /etc/portage/package.use/boinc
app-emulation/virtualbox additions extensions java python
x11-libs/wxGTK webkit

You can see I have all the USE flags affecting the xorg-x11 system in one file,
all those needed by boinc in another, and so on. In my usual top-down
approach I name each file by what it's for, not what's in it.

> As usual, do what makes the most sense to you. I post this just in case
> this way may make sense, not that much of anything I do makes sense to
> anyone else. ;-)

You're too modest... :)

--
Regards
Peter

[Mick]

On Sunday 05 Feb 2017 01:44:30 Dale wrote:

> the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> > I change in make.conf to:
> > USE="bindist"
> >
> > and I was able to install basic system correctly, network is working and I
> > can proceed with castomazation but my next question: What is the correct
> > way to configure "USE=" in make.conf?

[snip...]

> If I have a flag that I want enabled/disabled on basically
> everything that uses that flag, it goes in make.conf. If I have a USE
> flag that I may need for just a few packages, or a single package, I put
> it in package.use.

Yes, this is pretty much the case. System wide USE flags go in make.conf.
Package specific USE flags *which do not apply system wide* go in package.use.

> As a example. The kde USE flag. Since I run mostly
> KDE and want any packages I build to work with KDE, it goes in
> make.conf.

Errm ... not exactly.

If one uses KDE (it's called Plasma these days) then the way to set up system
wide KDE USE flags is to select the corresponding profile. This will set up
the correct USE flags and help install all necessary dependencies (e.g. Qt,
dbus, polkit, etc.). The way to do this is to use 'eselect profile list' and
set the desired profile from those listed. This will set a symlink from your
make.profile to the required /usr/portage/profiles/default/ selection of USE
flags.

Afterwards, have a look in the USE flags shown when you run 'emerge --info' to
find out what your OS is using in an emerge. If you want something set up
globally to cater e.g. for your hardware, which is not shown in 'emerge --
info', you can set it in make.conf. This will avoid polluting your make.conf
with duplicate USE flags which are already set by your make.profile.

While talking about hardware, you may want to consider installing and running:

app-portage/cpuid2cpuflags

It will give a list specific to the instruction set of your CPU which you
should add in CPU_FLAGS_X86= in your make.conf

Finally, have a quick read here where it explains how to interpret the output
of emerge messages regarding USE flags and how to differentiate between local,
global and conflicting USE flags:

https://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags/index.html

HTH
--
Regards,
Mick

[J. Roeleveld]

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:36:56 PM CET the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

(longer reply)

>
> I change in make.conf to:
> USE="bindist"
>
> and I was able to install basic system correctly, network is working and I
> can proceed with castomazation but my next question: What is the correct
> way to configure "USE=" in make.conf?
>
> When I use a below: (copied from my other systems):
>
> USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl
> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev tiff png usb scanner gimp
> gimpprint cgi fam nptl type1 opengl tetexspell consolkit dbus pam policykit
> jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar cleartype corefonts -systemd
> -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS abi_x86_32"
>
> PS. I think "dbus" is no longer used, isn't it?

I have dbus installed, so the package still exists. If it is a valid USE-flag,
I don't know.

In your list, I see a few I have never used. Most of them, I would personally
only set for those packages where I want them to apply, but that is a personal
decision.

My main concerns with your list are:
# -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS
This seems more like something that should be added as a compiler-flag for 1
package or something in an apache config file.

# abi_x86_32
I am assuming you want packages to also be build for 32-bit.
If that is the case, I would set the following in your make.conf file:
# ABI_X86="64 32"
and remove this entry from your USE-list.

# consolkit
I think this should be "consolekit" as that one does exist.

> I get a log of blockers and my file "package.use" starting to look like
> trash can with entries like:
>
> # required by x11-libs/libxcb-1.12::gentoo
> # required by x11-apps/xwininfo-1.1.3::gentoo
> # required by x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.36::gentoo
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-session-4.12.1-r1::gentoo[xscreensaver]
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta-4.12::gentoo
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta (argument)
>
> >=x11-libs/libXau-1.0.8 abi_x86_32

This is related to the above comment about your abi... useflag.

> # required by x11-libs/libxcb-1.12::gentoo
> # required by x11-apps/xwininfo-1.1.3::gentoo
> # required by x11-misc/xscreensaver-5.36::gentoo
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-session-4.12.1-r1::gentoo[xscreensaver]
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta-4.12::gentoo
> # required by xfce-base/xfce4-meta (argument)
>
> >=dev-libs/libpthread-stubs-0.3-r1 abi_x86_32

Same

Alan is really good at decyphering these.

My advice would be:
double-check your make.conf, especially the USE-entries I listed above.

Once done, first stabilise your current system (as you want them global) then
start adding packages.
Eg:
1) edit make.conf using comments above

2) stabilise system with last modifications:
# emerge -auDN @world
(At the least you want the new USE-flags to take effect for what you have)
Note: this will take a while as you are telling portage you want 32 and 64 bit
where possible.
Also don't forget the "update" and "deep" to ensure any packages are updated
where needed. (I saw a version-difference causing possible problems with udev/
eudev above)

3) When this is done, you should be able to proceed with the rest of your
installation.

--
Joost

[J. Roeleveld]

I don't see much issue with swap on SSD as long as it isn't used too much.
My laptop only has SSD, my desktop also has a spinning-rust disk for scratch-
heavy (many, many writes) activities.

My swap is on SSD, it's not used often, I guess I would wear out that SSD
sooner with the activities of my home-dir and akonadi. :)

I don't see anything bad happening yet using smartctl and this machine is
running a lot lately with, for my desktop, quite high uptimes.

--
Joost

[Dale]

I was just using the kde flag as a example. Although, the kde USE flag
is still in use by several packages.

kde - Add support for KDE (K Desktop Environment)

I could have also used X or several others as a example.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Dale]

Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 05 Feb 2017 01:44:30 Dale wrote:
>
>> Ask anyone, I'm different on the way I do USE flags, or I feel that
>> way. If I have a flag that I want enabled/disabled on basically
>> everything that uses that flag, it goes in make.conf. If I have a USE
>> flag that I may need for just a few packages, or a single package, I put
>> it in package.use.
> The devs have already made that choice, though of course you don't have to
> follow them.
>

Other than the profile, I set the USE line in make.conf, or
package.use. I'm not trying to post details on a specific USE flag,
just picking a common one that makes the point of how it can be handled.

>> Basically, make.conf is the rule for USE flags. Package.use is for
>> exceptions to that rule.
> Or, if the USE flag is documented in /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc it's for
> general application and you put it in make.conf, and if it's in
> /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc it applies to one or a few specific
> packages and you put it in package.use.
>
> Then you just have to decide how to arrange you package.use directory. This
> is mine, in case it helps anyone:
>
> # ls /etc/portage/package.use
> boinc firefox firmware iputils qtwebengine runtime-meta xorg
>
> # cat /etc/portage/package.use/xorg
> media-libs/mesa -vaapi
> sys-devel/llvm clang video_cards_radeon
> x11-libs/libdrm video_cards_radeon
>
> # cat /etc/portage/package.use/boinc
> app-emulation/virtualbox additions extensions java python
> x11-libs/wxGTK webkit
>
> You can see I have all the USE flags affecting the xorg-x11 system in one file,
> all those needed by boinc in another, and so on. In my usual top-down
> approach I name each file by what it's for, not what's in it.
>
>> As usual, do what makes the most sense to you. I post this just in case
>> this way may make sense, not that much of anything I do makes sense to
>> anyone else. ;-)
> You're too modest... :)
>

I have one file. I tried having more than one file and I did not like
that one bit. Sometimes the same line can fit in a different package
depending on what pulls in a package and needs a certain USE flag
setting. If I need to know if a package is listed in package.use, I
have one file to look at. I don't have to spend a lot of time looking
in the file I think it should be in only to find it in another file for
some other reason than the current one. Yep, I tried that road. It's
not for me. If it works for you tho, do it that way. Everyone has a
way/method that works for them.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Floyd Anderson]

Recently I read an interesting post [1] (especially the middle paragraph
about the USE-flag ‘threads’ example). It let me rethink how I handle
USE (which is even similar your way) and it might be worth to consider
why a package maintainer defaults a flag on/off.

[1] <https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/a59f08ffe21bcf984ee82fd7125e0bf2>

--
Best regards,
Floyd Anderson

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 23:36:56 -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

> my next question: What is the correct way to configure "USE=" in
> make.conf?
>
> When I use a below: (copied from my other systems):
>
> USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl
> foomaticdb truetype kpathsea ppds mysql udev tiff png usb scanner gimp
> gimpprint cgi fam nptl type1 opengl tetexspell consolkit dbus pam
> policykit jpeg lock session startup-notification thunar cleartype
> corefonts -systemd -DOPENSSL_NO_HEARTBEATS abi_x86_32"

Copying an old USE setting is not the best idea. USE flags, profiles and
your needs change over time and /etc/portage gathers a lot of cruft. Now
you have the system working with the base profile, switch to a profile
that suits your needs and let portage rebuild @world. Then make small
changes to USE flags as needed.

I recently ported a system to new hardware and did the base install this
way. I found that I ended up with a system that worked just the same but
with far less in make.conf and package.use.

With USE flags, small changes are always best. A mass import of a USE
line like that above is likely to cause circular dependencies and other
problems.

How you manage the split between make.conf and package.use is up to you.
If I want a flag to apply globally, I put it in mzke.conf, otherwise it
goes in package.use, in a file names after the software requiring it
(which is not the same as the package name). If I find I have set the
same flag several times in package.use, I consider moving it to make.conf.


--
Neil Bothwick

A friend of mine sent me a postcard with a satellite photo of the
entire planet on it, and on the back he wrote, "Wish you were here."

[Dale]

I'm subscribed there and recall reading that. The point of my post was
not for a specific flag. I just picked a flag that has been around for
a long time and pretty much everyone recognizes what it is for. As I
mentioned in another post, I could have picked many other flags. X,
gnome, cups, or any number of others. The biggest point, there are many
ways to handle USE flags. Pick what works for you and more importantly,
makes sense to you. Anytime us Gentoo users are
installing/upgrading/adding packages, we have to watch for changes or
even new flags that may not be set the way we want. It's up to us on
how to manage it. I posted my way, others can post their way. The OP
can pick whichever makes the most sense to them.

I might add, there are flags that we can't change. Those are set by
upstream or the devs. My post wasn't about that either. It was all
about managing options that we can change..

Rich has some good points at times. I try to read his posts unless it
is something that doesn't interest me. I think he also supports the
point I was making in my post. You have choices on how to do things,
pick the one that works and does what you need. It's a strong point for
Gentoo. I think USE flags are one of the biggest features of Gentoo.
It's not like we have a fancy installer that can read our minds. ROFL

It is interesting to see and read how others do this tho. It's amazing
sometimes how many different ways the same thing can be managed and
still work. I'm not sure any other distro can do that, not that I used
others in a long time.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Floyd Anderson]

On Sun, 05 Feb 05:05:56 -0600
Dale <rdale...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The point of my post was not for a specific flag. I just picked a flag
>that has been around for a long time and pretty much everyone
>recognizes what it is for.
>

>[…]

>
>I might add, there are flags that we can't change. Those are set by
>upstream or the devs. My post wasn't about that either. It was all
>about managing options that we can change..

I think there is an unfortunate misunderstanding and I may have to be
more clear. I also just picked the threads-flag example as what it is,
an example — not as a specific advise. My intention was to demonstrate
my thoughts when I read the post from the dev list.

Basically I handle my USE flags similar as you do and had described in
your former post. What I always want goes to make.conf (trying to keep
it according to less is more) and specific flags lives in package.use.

When I read the post from Rich, I remember that I have the mentioned
‘threads’ flag globally set. Some time ago I put it in, it works and
nearly no thoughts were wasted since then. I didn’t care about:
• pulling in heavyweight dependencies
• package maintainers set a flag off by default for stability
• ...

in that moment. That was what I mean with rethinking might be worth
before *I* set a flag globally. Hope it’s clearer now ;-)

>You have choices on how to do things, pick the one that works and does
>what you need. It's a strong point for Gentoo. I think USE flags are
>one of the biggest features of Gentoo. It's not like we have a fancy
>installer that can read our minds. ROFL
>
>It is interesting to see and read how others do this tho. It's amazing
>sometimes how many different ways the same thing can be managed and
>still work. I'm not sure any other distro can do that, not that I used
>others in a long time.

That’s why Gentoo is often regarded as the freedom of choice. I love it
to think for myself and not only consume what other OSes provides or not
provides. Therefore (besides the USE flag feature) and because almost
everything we feed our machines with, is plain text, we have the ability
for creating ebuilds, overlays, patches. That’s so exciting even it may
be hard sometimes, to learn all those stuff and stay up to date with it.

[the...@sys-concept.com]

Thank you all, yes good advice. I have removed most of the entries from
the "USE=" what is left (and I'm not even sure I need them).

USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl

udev tiff png usb scanner cgi nptl type1 -systemd"

I'll let the portage handle it, I use XFCE for desktop.

--
Thelma

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Floyd Anderson <f...@xmail.net> wrote:
>
> That’s why Gentoo is often regarded as the freedom of choice.

This includes the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot.

I suggest that new users consider going with the defaults except when
they have a reason not to.

Sure, we can all pass around our make.conf files, and people can just
blindly copy what we're using. In a sense this is also stick with the
"defaults" - just somebody else's choice of defaults.

The difference is that if you don't do this then you're getting the
defaults the maintainer thought best, and the settings that get the
widest extent of testing. If you run into a problem, you're probably
close to the upstream configuration, which means both upstream and the
maintainer are probably going to be willing to lend you a hand.
You're also closer to the settings used by other distros, which means
their own documentation will help you.

Stick with the profile defaults to start. By all means tweak
something if you have a reason to, but make these conscious informed
decisions. Keep things simple.

When you start out with a very complex USE configuration on a distro
you're new to, then you're going to struggle a lot to deal with the
resulting issues.

In terms of profiles themselves, hardened isn't the friendliest place
to start. It tends to get used in server environments, and I suspect
very few run a desktop environment in a hardened environment. I'd
suggest chatting with others who run hardened to understand its
limitations. I've been running Gentoo for a very long time now and I
wouldn't expect to do a hardened desktop install and get through it
without a bit of troubleshooting.

--
Rich

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:53 AM, <the...@sys-concept.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you all, yes good advice. I have removed most of the entries from
> the "USE=" what is left (and I'm not even sure I need them).

This is a good way to get started. Get your system working, then
start playing with it. At least you can browse the web while things
build then. :)

>
> USE="... -berkdb

I'd question this at a global level. I'm not saying it will
definitely cause issues, but the selection of a storage backend seems
like the sort of thing you'd want to make per-package and not
globally, unless you have a specific aversion to berkdb. If you turn
this off on some packages they might fail to run until you set up a
mysql database or something for them, and that is probably overkill in
some cases. The maintainer's default choice may be more appropriate,
again unless you have a specific concern with it.

This is the sort of setting that can make perfect sense in package.use.

I'll be honest and admit that I probably should give my own USE flags
another look. Most of them probably pre-date the existance of USE
defaults when a lot more tweaking tended to be needed to get things
working right.

Believe it or not, this is probably the easiest it has ever been for
somebody new to Gentoo. :) Back when I installed we were still
recommending doing stage1 installs, and that was on far inferior
hardward. Just imagine sitting in a chroot for a day or two before
you can even get your box to boot. Oh, and no livecds either, if you
didn't have another computer handy (which was more likely to be the
case back then - no smartphones/etc), you made do with links. I think
we at least made its home page the handbook.

--
Rich

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:53:42 -0700, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

> Thank you all, yes good advice. I have removed most of the entries from
> the "USE=" what is left (and I'm not even sure I need them).
>
> USE="-qt4 -kde -gnome -arts -berkdb -acl X gtk alsa cups apache2 ssl
> udev tiff png usb scanner cgi nptl type1 -systemd"

kde qt? and gnome are unset in the default and desktop profiles. arts
hasn't been around for many years, it was part of KDE3.

> I'll let the portage handle it, I use XFCE for desktop.

Then set the standard desktop profile.


--
Neil Bothwick

Two rights don't make a wrong, they make an airplane.

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2017 12:07:10 -0500, Rich Freeman wrote:

> I'll be honest and admit that I probably should give my own USE flags
> another look. Most of them probably pre-date the existance of USE
> defaults when a lot more tweaking tended to be needed to get things
> working right.

I recently transferred my hard drives to a new box but added an NVMe
drive for the OS. I tried leaving out most of my previous USE flags, nly
adding them when I saw the need. I surprised by how many of them I didn't
need or want any more


--
Neil Bothwick

Celery is not food. It is a member of the plywood family.

[Floyd Anderson]

On Sun, 05 Feb 12:00:15 -0500
Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:
>On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Floyd Anderson <f...@xmail.net> wrote:
>>
>> That’s why Gentoo is often regarded as the freedom of choice.
>
>This includes the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot.

He, nice allegory. Oh, and yes that’s what I like — you can but it
doesn’t have to be inevitable done. Sometimes it’s necessary to
hopefully learn something. Kids may believing you only *after* they
touched the hot plate. Long ago, I couldn’t believe a Linux is able to
destroy itself — until a mentor shows me.

>I suggest that new users consider going with the defaults except when
>they have a reason not to.
>
>Sure, we can all pass around our make.conf files, and people can just
>blindly copy what we're using. In a sense this is also stick with the
>"defaults" - just somebody else's choice of defaults.

That remember me when I start using SciTE with Lua, Vim and Mutt. I saw
myself in front of tons of documentations and user experiences and I was
unable to wait for results. Copying just any stuff from a public .config
file repo without any clue what those things really do isn’t meaningful.
Someone would still stay at the point as before and when things gets
broken, frustration arise.

>The difference is that if you don't do this then you're getting the
>defaults the maintainer thought best, and the settings that get the
>widest extent of testing. If you run into a problem, you're probably
>close to the upstream configuration, which means both upstream and the
>maintainer are probably going to be willing to lend you a hand.
>You're also closer to the settings used by other distros, which means
>their own documentation will help you.
>
>Stick with the profile defaults to start. By all means tweak
>something if you have a reason to, but make these conscious informed
>decisions. Keep things simple.

This was my intention (as the result of earlier experiences) when Gentoo
comes into my life over two years ago. The only thing that bothers me
down to the present day, I cannot get hardware acceleration to work with
my GPU (Radeon HD 7870 XT). I’ve tested a lot USE flags, switched from
stable to bleeding edge and back. Now run on testing (mixed with a
stable toolchain and able to get free from a broken system by an
intermediate chroot) and hoping mesa from Git, Open Source AMDGPU and
kernel >=4.9 have pity with me someday.

>When you start out with a very complex USE configuration on a distro
>you're new to, then you're going to struggle a lot to deal with the
>resulting issues.
>
>In terms of profiles themselves, hardened isn't the friendliest place
>to start. It tends to get used in server environments, and I suspect
>very few run a desktop environment in a hardened environment. I'd
>suggest chatting with others who run hardened to understand its
>limitations. I've been running Gentoo for a very long time now and I
>wouldn't expect to do a hardened desktop install and get through it
>without a bit of troubleshooting.

Well, this hardened stuff looks interesting to me — at least when I
protect my browser profile — but I can wait opening those magic box.


Thank you for your suggestions and the kindly response. It should not be
locked up in a subthread. ;-)

[Dale]

Floyd Anderson wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Feb 05:05:56 -0600
> Dale <rdale...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The point of my post was not for a specific flag. I just picked a
>> flag that has been around for a long time and pretty much everyone
>> recognizes what it is for.
>>
>> […]
>>
>> I might add, there are flags that we can't change. Those are set by
>> upstream or the devs. My post wasn't about that either. It was all
>> about managing options that we can change..
>
> I think there is an unfortunate misunderstanding and I may have to be
> more clear. I also just picked the threads-flag example as what it is,
> an example — not as a specific advise. My intention was to demonstrate
> my thoughts when I read the post from the dev list.
>
> Basically I handle my USE flags similar as you do and had described in
> your former post. What I always want goes to make.conf (trying to keep
> it according to less is more) and specific flags lives in package.use.
>
> When I read the post from Rich, I remember that I have the mentioned
> ‘threads’ flag globally set. Some time ago I put it in, it works and
> nearly no thoughts were wasted since then. I didn’t care about:
> • pulling in heavyweight dependencies
> • package maintainers set a flag off by default for stability
> • ...
>
> in that moment. That was what I mean with rethinking might be worth
> before *I* set a flag globally. Hope it’s clearer now ;-)
>

I read your post a couple times, I could see two different ways to read
it. I sort of addressed them both. One way of me seeing it was based
on some other replies. I see the way you meant it now tho. That's the
thing about text, it's hard to put emotion etc into it. ;-) Unless it
is like Duncan's. His posts are long but there isn't much room for
reading something the wrong way either. lol

When I did my last install for this new puter, I did mine this way. I
do the base install and rebooted. I poked around to make sure things
were working right and stable, network for sure. Then I synced and
looked at the output, I always use the -a option. What I looked for,
USE flags and what was on, what was off and what would be changing.
Some USE flags are obvious but some require one to do a euse -i <USE
flag> to see what it does and sometimes a google search. If I see
something that is not what I want, I then decide if it should be global
or for a specific set of packages and put it where it makes sense. I
might add, that is how I do with my updates from then on. I sync,
emerge -uvaDN world and look at what is changing and such. If I don't
like a setting, or something is new, go set it like I want it. How one
does that is debatable for sire. Different tools, methods and thought
processes lead to different ways.

>> You have choices on how to do things, pick the one that works and
>> does what you need. It's a strong point for Gentoo. I think USE
>> flags are one of the biggest features of Gentoo. It's not like we
>> have a fancy installer that can read our minds. ROFL
>>
>> It is interesting to see and read how others do this tho. It's amazing
>> sometimes how many different ways the same thing can be managed and
>> still work. I'm not sure any other distro can do that, not that I used
>> others in a long time.
>
> That’s why Gentoo is often regarded as the freedom of choice. I love
> it to think for myself and not only consume what other OSes provides
> or not provides. Therefore (besides the USE flag feature) and because
> almost everything we feed our machines with, is plain text, we have
> the ability for creating ebuilds, overlays, patches. That’s so
> exciting even it may be hard sometimes, to learn all those stuff and
> stay up to date with it.
>

I admit, I leave most of it to the devs. I'm not a coder or even a
script kid. Heck, setting up a cron job requires google and some
reading. I started using Gentoo back in 2003 and the old 1.4 days. It
was interesting back then for sure. Heck, portage and friends has come
a very long ways since then. Blockers and such handle what used to be
huge problems when upgrading. Add in that age is making other things I
have to do take longer, not to mention health issues, I just don't have
time to dig to deep.

Gentoo certainly has choice. If one really wants to control every
single thing there is, USE="-* <insert USE flags>" will get a person
there in a hurry. If one doesn't want control, just something that
works, pick a good profile and go for it. For some, that is all that is
needed.

Gentoo has hiccups at times and some things worry me but generally, good
options are available.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Dale]

Shooting oneself in the foot could be that USE="-* <insert flag>
option. Talk about being brave. lol

As a somewhat seasoned Gentoo user, when I built this new rig, I had to
add USE flags slowly. As a test, I tried copying my USE flags over from
the old install. When I did a emerge -uvaDN system, it puked all over
my keyboard. I recall having blockers that emerge couldn't resolve.
There were some other issues as well. I went back to defaults and added
them slowly. That worked well.

I've read about hardened. I've always wanted to play with it but I'd
want a separate puter to play with that on. I've also wondered if it
would even benefit me at all.

Dale

:-) :-)

[Floyd Anderson]

Hi Dale,

lets have a break. I lose the thread and driving nearer the ditch than
the track. I think the main things were said. All following would only
drift away.

Sorry for the noise.

--
floyd