Please help with not booting from USB so to install Debian

[Rodolfo Medina]

I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
stick. (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.) At the boot I press F9 and a menu
appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
booting instead into Windows 11. In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
nothing. Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.

Rodolfo

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 8 Jun 2023 18:36:27 +0000
Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot
> from USB stick.

It might help if you identified the new machine.

You might also check web sites related to Linux on that manufacturer's
products. E.g. thinkwiki (https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki) for
Lenovo/IBM machines. Or https://linux-hardware.org.

--
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

Hi Rodolfo,

What model of machine is this - and how new?

How did you write the image to the USB stick?

CSM is probably not needed. USB boot *should* work but there is a
way of forcing boot only to Windows 11 in some machines. (I had this
on a relatively new T490).

Does it show any messages?


> Rodolfo
>

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater

[Rodolfo Medina]

Thank you Andrew and Charles.

"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amac...@einval.com> writes:

> What model of machine is this - and how new?

Here it is:

https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA

> How did you write the image to the USB stick?

This way:

$ dd if=debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdd bs=4M; sync

As I said, another machine of mine boots regularly into it, so it must be ok.

> CSM is probably not needed. USB boot *should* work but there is a
> way of forcing boot only to Windows 11 in some machines. (I had this
> on a relatively new T490).
>
> Does it show any messages?

No message: it simply boots into Windows instead of the USB drive that I chose
in the menu.

Thanks,

Rodolfo

[Bret Busby]

My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is
designed to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious
Windows 11.

A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to boot
into Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.

My understanding is that, to boot into Linux or any other non-MS
operating system, Windows 11 should be avoided like the plague that it
is, and, that a computer with the Windows 10 OS should be obtained,
rather than the malware that is Windows 11.

Windows 11 also, in the malware that it is, proscribes software that
runs on Windows 10 and earlier versions of Windows.

The best use for a Windows 11 computer, is to use it as a projectile.
Such computers are not even substantial enough to use as boat anchors.

..
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............

[Rodolfo Medina]

Bret Busby <br...@busby.net> writes:

> My understanding is that Windows 11 computers have malware that is designed
> to prevent booting into anything other than the malicious Windows 11.
>
> A procedure to get around the Windows 11 malware, and to be able to boot into
> Linux, has, I believe, been described on the Ubuntu Users mailing list.

Can you perhaps point out a link to read that procedure? Thanks!

Rodolfo

[Bret Busby]

I have posted a query to the Ubuntu list, asking the person who I
believe, provided the procedure on that list, and, who has published
equivalent information for Windows 10.

I seek his response.

[Bret Busby]

Have you disabled "secure boot" on your Windows 11 PC?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGX
KBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA

> $ dd if=debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdd bs=4M; sync

I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.

> > In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol

> No message: it simply boots into Windows instead of the USB drive that I
> chose in the menu.

You could try with
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
and CSM disabled.
(Maybe it even begins to work with CSM if the firmware is brain damaged
enough.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 23:15:36 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt" <scdb...@gmx.net> wrote:

> I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.

A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
better use of its capabilities.

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 20:01:20 +0000
Rodolfo Medina <rodolfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here it is:
>
> https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA

Hmm, never heard of that vendor. You might do better with one of the
Debian Italian language lists.
https://lists.debian.org/completeindex.html

[Bret Busby]

On 9/6/23 05:26, Bret Busby wrote:

> If you go to
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html
>
> and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about
> Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through
> the responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able
> to get the answer that you seek.

>
> ..
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> (UTC+0800)
> ..............

I should have included, in my previous posts about this, that the
imperative first step, before either using a newly purchased computer,
or, trying to add an extra booting operating system to any computer, new
or otherwise, is to ensure that you have the latest available UEFI/BIOS
installed on the computer.

The computer manufacturer's web site should have the applicable
procedures involved, for both checking the installed and latest
UEFI/BIOS versions for the computer, and, for upgrading it as needed.

[Bret Busby]

If you go to

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html

and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about
Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through
the responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able
to get the answer that you seek.

[David Wright]

On Thu 08 Jun 2023 at 15:36:27 (-0600), Charles Curley wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Jun 2023 23:15:36 +0200 "Thomas Schmitt" wrote:
>
> > I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> > So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.
>
> A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
> better use of its capabilities.

Perhaps we have to distinguish between "CPU can run 32-bits too"
and "a particular UEFI can boot into a 32-bit OS".

Cheers,
David.

[David Christensen]

On 6/8/23 13:01, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
>
https://www.amazon.it/KUU-Notebook-Prozessor-Bluetooth-portatile/dp/B0C4TGXKBC/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3PK1MW55MAOA


Do you want Windows/Debian dual-boot, or Debian only?


David

[Joseph Loo]

You might want to read the manual with the computer. My Lenovo would boot automatically to Windows. In the manual, it had a hold on the side, trusty paperwork clip press the hole, boots into bios. Install Linux

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> > So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.

Charles Curley wrote:
> A Celeron should be able to run i386 Debian. But the amd64 might be a
> better use of its capabilities.

Other than with legacy BIOS, EFI looks for different boot programs in the
EFI System Partition's FAT filesystem:
i386: \EFI\BOOT\BOOTIA32.EFI
amd64: \EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI

debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso only offers BOOTIA32.EFI :
mount debian-11.7.0-i386-netinst.iso /mnt/iso
mount /mnt/iso/boot/grub/efi.img /mnt/fat
find /mnt/fat
So a normal amd64 EFI will not consider booting it.

The MBR code for legacy BIOS should be usable for 64-bit and 32-bit
alike. But Rodolfo Medina's machine seems not to like the USB stick in
CSM mode.

[Rodolfo Medina]

"Thomas Schmitt" <scdb...@gmx.net> writes:

> I understand from the link that it has a 64 bit Celeron J4105 CPU.
> So its EFI would want an "amd64" ISO.
>

> [...]

>
> You could try with
> https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-cd/debian-11.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso
> and CSM disabled.

Unfortunately, it won't boot either...

Rodolfo

[Rodolfo Medina]

At least one of the two. What I don't want is MS Windows only... ;-)

Rodolfo

[Rodolfo Medina]

Bret Busby <br...@busby.net> writes:

> If you go to
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2022-July/thread.html
>
> and scroll down to the thread starting with the subject "Questions about
> Linux Mint and this list", read that message, and, work your way through the
> responses, especially, the ones from Liam Proven, you should be able to get
> the answer that you seek.

Thanks, but it is of no help, I'm afraid...

Rodolfo

[David Christensen]

On 6/9/23 00:59, Rodolfo Medina wrote:

Okay. I avoid dual-boot, so I will allow others more familiar with
dual-boot help.


David

[Rodolfo Medina]

Now I tried with a CDROM instead of a USB stick but the problem remains.

Rodolfo

[Rodolfo Medina]

...And now I tried even with an MS Windows 10 installation CDROM but the
problem remains!

Rodolfo

[fjd]

I may have missed it: have you tried going into Windows 10 and into
setup, looking for 'boot' in the search bar and select 'change
advanced startup options'? then you go to "Advanced startup" and
hit "Restart now"?

When the machine reboots go into the BIOS/UEFI system and select your
usb.

Sorry if this has been proposed already and I missed it. Also sorry if
it doesn't work. I have to do it if I want to boot from usb on my Acer
laptop.

fjd

--

Verbum sat sapienti.

[Max Nikulin]

On 09/06/2023 17:54, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> ...And now I tried even with an MS Windows 10 installation CDROM but the
> problem remains!

Check what devices are enabled in boot settings in system setup (BIOS or
firmware setting).

When you switching off a computer with windows, perhaps actually it
performs suspend do disk (hibernate), not shutdown. Alternative boot
options may be disabled when system is resumed from hibernation. Ensure
that you namely *shutdown* windows. The following page suggests that it
may be configured in "System and Security". Perhaps some modifier (Alt
or Shift) may unveil additional options related to the power item of the
start menu.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shut-down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-pc-2941d165-7d0a-a5e8-c5ad-8c972e8e6eff

[Bret Busby]

I asked before, and have not seen an answer.

Have you gone into the UEFI/BIOS, and turned off secure booting?

[Bret Busby]

You might want to read this;

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2023-June/310491.html

and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change
the boot order to

USB drive
Optical (eg, DVD) drive (if the computer has one)
HDD

so that the computer should attempt to boot from the respective drives,
in that order.

[Bret Busby]

It occurred to me, after posting the above message, that I should have
worded that last part, slightly differently, for clarification; the

"and, of course, after that procedure, in the system UEFI/BIOS, change
the boot order to"

should have been

"and, of course, in that procedure, while still in the system UEFI/BIOS,
between steps 2 and 3, change the boot order to".

I hope that all of this, is helpful, and, credit for success, should go
to Liam.

[Stefan Monnier]

> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot
> from USB stick. (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the
> USB stick is ok and so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.) At
> the boot I press F9 and a menu appears where I can choose to boot from
> USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all booting instead into Windows
> 11. In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but nothing. Please help as
> I don't know what to do: thanks.

I don't have experience with your specific problem and after reading the
rest of the thread, I'm not sure what might be the problem or how to fix
it, but faced with this, I think I'd try to open the machine up and
remove the "disk" to which it boots (i.e. the one with Window-11 on it).

Not sure it would fix the problem, but if not I'd hope it might give
further hints.


Stefan

[Peter Ehlert]

On 6/8/23 11:36, Rodolfo Medina wrote:
> I want to install Debian on a new machine but don't manage to boot from USB
> stick. (I can do so regularly with another machine, so the USB stick is ok and
> so is the Debian netinst I burned onto it.) At the boot I press F9 and a menu
> appears where I can choose to boot from USB stick; but then it doesn't so at all
> booting instead into Windows 11. In BIOS I enabled the CSM protocol but
> nothing. Please help as I don't know what to do: thanks.
>

> Rodolfo

(after reading the other comments)

I recently had a similar issue with a HP 840G3 laptop

after editing the BIOS to disable secure boot and setting the boot order
no joy.

I discovered that holding down F9 and then pressing the power button it
goes directly into BIOS boot menu.
THEN selecting the USB drive from the list it works.


maybe your laptop has some such direct boot path option
best of luck

>

[Hans]

Am Freitag, 9. Juni 2023, 18:37:14 CEST schrieb Stefan Monnier:

Hi Stefan,

this might e a problem of your BIOS. However, if your BIOS does not support booting from USB, here is a trick:

You can download a bootable CD-Rom from this site:

https://www.plop.at

Look for the Bootmgr. It is a live-cd., which is booting, then you can chose further boot from another media like USB.

It helps, whenever your BIOS does not have the capability (i.e. it is too old), to boot from USB.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!

Best

Hans

[Bret Busby]

In this, since I last posted, I remembered that, on one of my computers,
on which I installed Linux Mint, whilst the BIOS was set to boot first
from the USB input, it would not, so, I simply wrote a copy of the iso
file to a DVD, and, booted from the DVD drive, and, installed from the
DVD drive, without any problem.

If the original poster has not yet been able to boot into a Linux iso
file from the USB input, perhaps, providing the computer does have a DVD
drive, the original poster could try the DVD method, and, tell us how
successful that is.