Communicating with USB Modem
Hal Vaughan
T: Bus=02 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=480 MxCh= 8
B: Alloc= 0/800 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0
D: Ver= 2.00 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS=64 #Cfgs= 1
P: Vendor=1d6b ProdID=0002 Rev= 2.06
S: Manufacturer=Linux 2.6.26-2-686 ehci_hcd
S: Product=EHCI Host Controller
S: SerialNumber=0000:00:1d.7
C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=e0 MxPwr= 0mA
I:* If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub
E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 4 Ivl=256ms
T: Bus=01 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=12 MxCh= 2
B: Alloc= 0/900 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0
D: Ver= 1.10 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS=64 #Cfgs= 1
P: Vendor=1d6b ProdID=0001 Rev= 2.06
S: Manufacturer=Linux 2.6.26-2-686 uhci_hcd
S: Product=UHCI Host Controller
S: SerialNumber=0000:00:1d.0
C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=e0 MxPwr= 0mA
I:* If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 1 Cls=09(hub ) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=hub
E: Ad=81(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 2 Ivl=255ms
T: Bus=01 Lev=01 Prnt=01 Port=00 Cnt=01 Dev#= 2 Spd=12 MxCh= 0
D: Ver= 2.00 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 MxPS=64 #Cfgs= 1
P: Vendor=047e ProdID=2892 Rev= 2.00
S: Manufacturer=Agere Systems
S: Product=Agere USB2.0 V.92 SoftModem
C:* #Ifs= 1 Cfg#= 1 Atr=80 MxPwr=200mA
I:* If#= 0 Alt= 0 #EPs= 2 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none)
E: Ad=82(I) Atr=01(Isoc) MxPS= 0 Ivl=1ms
E: Ad=02(O) Atr=01(Isoc) MxPS= 0 Ivl=1ms
I: If#= 0 Alt= 1 #EPs= 2 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none)
E: Ad=82(I) Atr=01(Isoc) MxPS= 32 Ivl=1ms
E: Ad=02(O) Atr=01(Isoc) MxPS= 32 Ivl=1ms
I: If#= 0 Alt= 2 #EPs= 3 Cls=ff(vend.) Sub=00 Prot=00 Driver=(none)
E: Ad=81(I) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms
E: Ad=01(O) Atr=02(Bulk) MxPS= 64 Ivl=0ms
E: Ad=82(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 16 Ivl=16ms
From what I can find, that means the actual device file for this modem should be at /dev/bus/usb/001/002, but I know I could be wrong on that.
I'm trying to communicate with this modem. I've used Minicom, with the device I mentioned above. There are no /dev/ttyACM0 devices, as sometimes happens with a modem. I've tried all /dev/ttySx, where x is from 0 to 4, with no results. The problem with Minicom is that it can take time and a lot of frustrating keypresses to try one device after another. Also, I'm not sure the serial port speed settings are at all appropriate in Minicom for USB modems.
I was also trying a Perl program that would simply fork, have the parent open the device for reading and listen, then the child would open the same device for writing and send "ATZ" through to the device, then I could watch for a response -- but then when I tried it on a system with a serial port where I knew the device was /dev/ttyS0, it didn't work, so maybe there's a problem with the program. (I don't want to post a full Perl program here, since this isn't a Perl board that focuses on debugging Perl.)
This is a test situation, so I can't be sure the modem works with Linux, but I would think if it's external and USB, it would have to accept serial commands sent over the USB port. I could be wrong on this, of course.
So here's the questions:
1) What device should I be able to write to and read from to connect to this modem?
2) Any suggestions on how to write to and read from the device? (Write to it in Perl or use echo in bash -- but then how do I read to see results?)
3) Any other ideas or suggestions on how to control and use this modem in Linux (without going into C or C++)?
Thanks for any help on this!
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8F2308B6-5559-40D6...@halblog.com
Ron Johnson
> I have a Debian Lenny system and I've plugged in a USB 56K modem. (I know that's as outdated as a Model T, but I need it for business.) When I type "cat /proc/bus/usb/devices" I get this:
>
> T: Bus=02 Lev=00 Prnt=00 Port=00 Cnt=00 Dev#= 1 Spd=480 MxCh= 8
> B: Alloc= 0/800 us ( 0%), #Int= 0, #Iso= 0
> E: Ad=82(I) Atr=03(Int.) MxPS= 16 Ivl=16ms
>
> From what I can find, that means the actual device file for this modem should be at /dev/bus/usb/001/002, but I know I could be wrong on that.
>
> I'm trying to communicate with this modem. I've used Minicom, with the device I mentioned above. There are no /dev/ttyACM0 devices, as sometimes happens with a modem. I've tried all /dev/ttySx, where x is from 0 to 4, with no results. The problem with Minicom is that it can take time and a lot of frustrating keypresses to try one device after another. Also, I'm not sure the serial port speed settings are at all appropriate in Minicom for USB modems.
>
Anything in dmesg or syslog when you plug it in?
--
Seek truth from facts.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Brad Rogers
Hal Vaughan <h...@halblog.com> wrote:
Hello Hal,
> I have a Debian Lenny system and I've plugged in a USB 56K modem.
From <http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Modem-HOWTO-2.html> (the Linux Documentation
Project) comes this;
2.9 USB Modems
USB = Universal Serial Bus. Most USB modems are winmodems, so many will
not work.......
Unless, of course, you know that this particular device should work with
Linux.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
Two sides to every story
Public Image - Public Image Ltd
Camaleón
> I have a Debian Lenny system and I've plugged in a USB 56K modem. (I
> know that's as outdated as a Model T, but I need it for business.) When
> I type "cat /proc/bus/usb/devices" I get this:
(...)
As Ron suggested, better look at dmesg messages.
- If the device is not detected, it will (not) be there.
- If the device is detected but has problems for being setup, it will be
there.
- If the device is properly detected and configured, it will also be
there.
> From what I can find, that means the actual device file for this modem
> should be at /dev/bus/usb/001/002, but I know I could be wrong on that.
USB modems should fall under "/dev/ttyUSB0"
> I'm trying to communicate with this modem. I've used Minicom, with the
> device I mentioned above. There are no /dev/ttyACM0 devices, as
> sometimes happens with a modem. I've tried all /dev/ttySx, where x is
> from 0 to 4, with no results. The problem with Minicom is that it can
> take time and a lot of frustrating keypresses to try one device after
> another. Also, I'm not sure the serial port speed settings are at all
> appropriate in Minicom for USB modems.
Don't go nuts with this. Just plug the modem, open a console, type "dmesg
| grep -i usb" and put the result here (for very long logs, upload the
result to "www.pastebin.com" or any service like that) :-)
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Hal Vaughan
On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 03:21:36 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
>> I have a Debian Lenny system and I've plugged in a USB 56K modem. (I
>> know that's as outdated as a Model T, but I need it for business.) When
>> I type "cat /proc/bus/usb/devices" I get this:
>
> (...)
>
> As Ron suggested, better look at dmesg messages.
>
> - If the device is not detected, it will (not) be there.
>
> - If the device is detected but has problems for being setup, it will be
> there.
>
> - If the device is properly detected and configured, it will also be
> there.
>
>> From what I can find, that means the actual device file for this modem
>> should be at /dev/bus/usb/001/002, but I know I could be wrong on that.
>
> USB modems should fall under "/dev/ttyUSB0"
There's no /dev/ttyUSB0. Just the usual /dev/tty and the same with 0-63 on the end and /dev/ttyS0 through S3. I tried all of them and all the possible USB devices in that directory.
>> I'm trying to communicate with this modem. I've used Minicom, with the
>> device I mentioned above. There are no /dev/ttyACM0 devices, as
>> sometimes happens with a modem. I've tried all /dev/ttySx, where x is
>> from 0 to 4, with no results. The problem with Minicom is that it can
>> take time and a lot of frustrating keypresses to try one device after
>> another. Also, I'm not sure the serial port speed settings are at all
>> appropriate in Minicom for USB modems.
>
> Don't go nuts with this. Just plug the modem, open a console, type "dmesg
> | grep -i usb" and put the result here (for very long logs, upload the
> result to "www.pastebin.com" or any service like that) :-)
As you and Ron suggested. It's the last device. No errors, and remember it showed up in /proc/bus/usb/devices and looked okay (I numbered the lines in the output from grep):
235:[ 1.849802] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbfs
236:[ 1.849824] usbcore: registered new interface driver hub
237:[ 1.849848] usbcore: registered new device driver usb
238:[ 1.853655] USB Universal Host Controller Interface driver v3.0
243:[ 1.854354] uhci_hcd 0000:00:1d.0: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1
245:[ 1.854438] usb usb1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
246:[ 1.854455] hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
251:[ 1.956563] usb usb1: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0001
252:[ 1.956566] usb usb1: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
253:[ 1.956567] usb usb1: Product: UHCI Host Controller
254:[ 1.956569] usb usb1: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 uhci_hcd
255:[ 1.956570] usb usb1: SerialNumber: 0000:00:1d.0
260:[ 1.956976] ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 2
263:[ 1.968481] ehci_hcd 0000:00:1d.7: USB 2.0 started, EHCI 1.00, driver 10 Dec 2004
264:[ 1.968538] usb usb2: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
265:[ 1.968555] hub 2-0:1.0: USB hub found
269:[ 2.072362] usb usb2: New USB device found, idVendor=1d6b, idProduct=0002
270:[ 2.072364] usb usb2: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=2, SerialNumber=1
271:[ 2.072366] usb usb2: Product: EHCI Host Controller
272:[ 2.072367] usb usb2: Manufacturer: Linux 2.6.26-2-686 ehci_hcd
273:[ 2.072369] usb usb2: SerialNumber: 0000:00:1d.7
281:[ 2.196626] usb 1-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2
282:[ 2.347904] usb 1-1: not running at top speed; connect to a high speed hub
283:[ 2.352211] usb 1-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
285:[ 2.485485] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=047e, idProduct=2892
286:[ 2.485488] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
287:[ 2.485490] usb 1-1: Product: Agere USB2.0 V.92 SoftModem
288:[ 2.485491] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: Agere Systems
Thanks!
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/39759FA6-1DFB-46EA...@halblog.com
Camaleón
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Camaleón wrote:
>> Don't go nuts with this. Just plug the modem, open a console, type
>> "dmesg | grep -i usb" and put the result here (for very long logs,
>> upload the result to "www.pastebin.com" or any service like that) :-)
>
> As you and Ron suggested. It's the last device. No errors, and
> remember it showed up in /proc/bus/usb/devices and looked okay (I
> numbered the lines in the output from grep):
>
(...)
> 285:[ 2.485485] usb 1-1: New USB device found,idVendor=047e, idProduct=2892
> 286:[ 2.485488] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
> 287:[ 2.485490] usb 1-1: Product: Agere USB2.0 V.92 SoftModem
> 288:[ 2.485491] usb 1-1:> Manufacturer: Agere Systems
There you got it. It's an Agere soft modem.
Bufff... as per this doc¹ you could try "sl-modem" package from non-free
repo (it seems that your device -SV92U2- uses the "Scorpio" chipset) but
prepare for the worst ;-(
OTOH, LSI (the owner company of Agere) states that the modem supports Linux,
so you can ask them for a driver :-?
¹ http://www.modemsite.com/56k/lucentamr.asp
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Hal Vaughan
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:39:49 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:24 AM, Camaleón wrote:
>
>>> Don't go nuts with this. Just plug the modem, open a console, type
>>> "dmesg | grep -i usb" and put the result here (for very long logs,
>>> upload the result to "www.pastebin.com" or any service like that) :-)
>>
>> As you and Ron suggested. It's the last device. No errors, and
>> remember it showed up in /proc/bus/usb/devices and looked okay (I
>> numbered the lines in the output from grep):
>>
>
> (...)
>
>> 285:[ 2.485485] usb 1-1: New USB device found,idVendor=047e, idProduct=2892
>> 286:[ 2.485488] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
>> 287:[ 2.485490] usb 1-1: Product: Agere USB2.0 V.92 SoftModem
>> 288:[ 2.485491] usb 1-1:> Manufacturer: Agere Systems
>
> There you got it. It's an Agere soft modem.
>
> Bufff... as per this doc¹ you could try "sl-modem" package from non-free
> repo (it seems that your device -SV92U2- uses the "Scorpio" chipset) but
> prepare for the worst ;-(
>
> OTOH, LSI (the owner company of Agere) states that the modem supports Linux,
> so you can ask them for a driver :-?
>
> ¹ http://www.modemsite.com/56k/lucentamr.asp
I had a reference, and now I can't find the darned link, to it working on Linux, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it -- unless I had a bunch of tabs open when I was researching modems at Newegg and hit "add to cart" on the wrong one -- which could happen.
I can't remember where (so it could have been the manufacturer's site), but there was one place I read that if it's USB, it had to use the Hayes command set and would work on anything, but Brad's link to TLDP shows that wrong. Next time when I see positives on something like that, I'll look for the flip side, just in case.
I've already ordered one from NewEgg that has several reviewers saying they're using it on Linux.
Thanks!
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BB12D9F1-60D7-4F9B...@halblog.com
Brad Rogers
Hal Vaughan <h...@halblog.com> wrote:
Hello Hal,
> I can't remember where (so it could have been the manufacturer's
> site), but there was one place I read that if it's USB, it had to use
> the Hayes command set and would work on anything, but Brad's link to
> TLDP shows that wrong.
To be fair, that link mentions the usual state of things, and I did
qualify it by saying something along the lines of "unless you know this
one does work with Linux".
A quick Google found this;
<http://www.agere.com/docs/PCS_Catalog_052606.pdf>, which states the the
modem does indeed run under Linux. However, in the (brief) time I
searched, I couldn't find any links to the driver itself.
--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
You're only 29 got a lot to learn
Seventeen - Sex Pistols
Camaleón
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Camaleón wrote:
(...)
>> Bufff... as per this doc¹ you could try "sl-modem" package from
>> non-free repo (it seems that your device -SV92U2- uses the "Scorpio"
>> chipset) but prepare for the worst ;-(
>>
>> OTOH, LSI (the owner company of Agere) states that the modem supports
>> Linux, so you can ask them for a driver :-?
>>
>> ¹ http://www.modemsite.com/56k/lucentamr.asp
>
> I had a reference, and now I can't find the darned link, to it working
> on Linux, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it -- unless I had a bunch of
> tabs open when I was researching modems at Newegg and hit "add to cart"
> on the wrong one -- which could happen.
I can give you at least one reference (the manufacture's tech. specs):
***
http://www.agere.com/docs/PCS_Catalog_052606.pdf
(page 5)
– SV92U2: USB 2.0 device controller, 48-pin TQFP Stack Bus
(...)
OS support: Win98SE/2000/ME, WinXP, WinXP 64-bit, Vista (Native Support),
and Linux
***
If that is indeed your device, don't give up so easily :-) Just try with
"sl-modem" drivers or ask LSI/Agere for advice, it could work.
> I can't remember where (so it could have been the manufacturer's site),
> but there was one place I read that if it's USB, it had to use the Hayes
> command set and would work on anything, but Brad's link to TLDP shows
> that wrong. Next time when I see positives on something like that, I'll
> look for the flip side, just in case.
>
> I've already ordered one from NewEgg that has several reviewers saying
> they're using it on Linux.
When it comes to modems and linux, the only way to hit the right device
is by using a RS-232 modem. No drivers needed and straight-forward setup
for all kind of services (dial-up connection, fax facility...).
Yes, yes... I know. Serial port is a scarce resource in modern
motherboards and n[eo]tbook computers ;-(
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Hal Vaughan
On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 15:29:40 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Camaleón wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>>> Bufff... as per this doc¹ you could try "sl-modem" package from
>>> non-free repo (it seems that your device -SV92U2- uses the "Scorpio"
>>> chipset) but prepare for the worst ;-(
>>>
>>> OTOH, LSI (the owner company of Agere) states that the modem supports
>>> Linux, so you can ask them for a driver :-?
>>>
>>> ¹ http://www.modemsite.com/56k/lucentamr.asp
>>
>> I had a reference, and now I can't find the darned link, to it working
>> on Linux, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it -- unless I had a bunch of
>> tabs open when I was researching modems at Newegg and hit "add to cart"
>> on the wrong one -- which could happen.
>
> I can give you at least one reference (the manufacture's tech. specs):
>
> ***
> http://www.agere.com/docs/PCS_Catalog_052606.pdf
>
> (page 5)
>
> – SV92U2: USB 2.0 device controller, 48-pin TQFP Stack Bus
>
> (...)
>
> OS support: Win98SE/2000/ME, WinXP, WinXP 64-bit, Vista (Native Support),
> and Linux
> ***
I see that, the one thing that is discouraging me is that, while I know they are talking about the chip, the pictures are of PCI modems, not the USB ones, and I think mine is later. (They show a USB modem on page 5, but different form factor than mine.) Still, mine may work.
> If that is indeed your device, don't give up so easily :-) Just try with
> "sl-modem" drivers or ask LSI/Agere for advice, it could work.
I tried the page you linked to, which had a link to the site with drivers, but that 2nd site is all blank web pages -- still looking for the sl-modem drivers. Did I miss a link? That's possible. (The dead link is: http://www.smlink.com/. It's from the last paragraph of that page, the only section that covers Linux there.)
>> I can't remember where (so it could have been the manufacturer's site),
>> but there was one place I read that if it's USB, it had to use the Hayes
>> command set and would work on anything, but Brad's link to TLDP shows
>> that wrong. Next time when I see positives on something like that, I'll
>> look for the flip side, just in case.
>>
>> I've already ordered one from NewEgg that has several reviewers saying
>> they're using it on Linux.
>
> When it comes to modems and linux, the only way to hit the right device
> is by using a RS-232 modem. No drivers needed and straight-forward setup
> for all kind of services (dial-up connection, fax facility...).
>
> Yes, yes... I know. Serial port is a scarce resource in modern
> motherboards and n[eo]tbook computers ;-(
A little backstory here. My small business mines data, and a lot comes from some dial-up systems where you can get passwords, but most people ignore them now since they're harder to deal with (therefore, if you're bigger, less lucrative, if you're smaller, good money). I have a US Robotics RS-232 running on the main system now and I have another that was brand new, that I pulled out and tested, then put back in the box. I guard those modems carefully. They work and I know they work.
But an idea hit me this summer. I haven't been programming in about 3 years (I'm a screenwriter by passion, so I've been doing that). This idea that hit me would take several months of programming and it'd be a game-changer for me in terms of income from the data mining. But to do it, I have to decentralize, which means instead of having one computer here doing dial-up, I'd have to put a computer in each client's office and have it do dial-up there. I won't get into all the reasons and thinking behind what I'm doing, but, in short, I want what's in their offices to be as simple as possible and to be a black box. I do not want them hooking up a keyboard or monitor to it ever. I don't even want them to think of it as a computer, EVER! So I'm looking not at low end as in cheap, but as in saving money and still getting a good embedded system. Each system will need a modem and I'll keep backups (of the computer and modem) on hand, ready to ship when needed.
I have used a USB-to-RS-232 converter with success for a FOSS project to control an HD radio (http://halblog.com/hdradiocontroller.html), but an RS-232 modem is more expensive and the converters are expensive, too, putting the price per modem well over $50 each.
I've ordered a Rosewill that looks good. It costs more than the one I have now. I'm going to try any drivers I can find for this one, but considering the price of the other one, with shipping, is $30, if the drivers don't work and the manufacturer doesn't help, I'm not going to knock myself out over this one. I can always use it on a Windows machine and use that system for testing (to have my other ones dial in).
As it is, though, considering how cheap these are (this one and the replacement people have tried on Ubuntu), I think spending more than a few hours on this one might be a diminishing return. Still, if all it needs are drivers, then I'll be happy with it!
Thanks for the input and I'll look for the drivers and see if I can get them working. I'll let people know what I find out in the long run on this.
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2028A169-8ADC-4F59...@halblog.com
Camaleón
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Camaleón wrote:
>> I can give you at least one reference (the manufacture's tech. specs):
>>
>> ***
>> http://www.agere.com/docs/PCS_Catalog_052606.pdf
>>
>> (page 5)
>>
>> – SV92U2: USB 2.0 device controller, 48-pin TQFP Stack Bus
>>
>> (...)
>>
>> OS support: Win98SE/2000/ME, WinXP, WinXP 64-bit, Vista (Native
>> Support), and Linux
>> ***
>
> I see that, the one thing that is discouraging me is that, while I know
> they are talking about the chip, the pictures are of PCI modems, not the
> USB ones, and I think mine is later. (They show a USB modem on page 5,
> but different form factor than mine.) Still, mine may work.
Yep, if you carefully read that doc, it seems the shape of the device may
vary:
***
- Reference design will include board, connectors, USB cable,
and plastics
- Three different form factors
***
>> If that is indeed your device, don't give up so easily :-) Just try
>> with "sl-modem" drivers or ask LSI/Agere for advice, it could work.
>
> I tried the page you linked to, which had a link to the site with
> drivers, but that 2nd site is all blank web pages -- still looking for
> the sl-modem drivers. Did I miss a link? That's possible. (The dead
> link is: http://www.smlink.com/. It's from the last paragraph of that
> page, the only section that covers Linux there.)
Oops, sorry. I thought I already told you "sl-modem" drivers are
available under debian "non-free" repo (lenny, squeeze, sid):
http://packages.debian.org/lenny/sl-modem-daemon
:-)
I see... It's quite difficult to keep the track of manufacturers making
cheap and linux friendly devices. One has to perform a big search in the
web (reading forums, mailing lists, asking users to get accurate
feedback...) to find out what USB modems (chipsets) play fine with linux
distributions.
> I have used a USB-to-RS-232 converter with success for a FOSS project to
> control an HD radio (http://halblog.com/hdradiocontroller.html), but an
> RS-232 modem is more expensive and the converters are expensive, too,
> putting the price per modem well over $50 each.
>
> I've ordered a Rosewill that looks good. It costs more than the one I
> have now. I'm going to try any drivers I can find for this one, but
> considering the price of the other one, with shipping, is $30, if the
> drivers don't work and the manufacturer doesn't help, I'm not going to
> knock myself out over this one. I can always use it on a Windows
> machine and use that system for testing (to have my other ones dial in).
>
> As it is, though, considering how cheap these are (this one and the
> replacement people have tried on Ubuntu), I think spending more than a
> few hours on this one might be a diminishing return. Still, if all it
> needs are drivers, then I'll be happy with it!
O.k. I also think geting an USB modem to work should just be plug and
play and no needing to mess with drivers at all. But it could worst:
there are some embedded modems (those you can find in notebooks) that
lack of any driver and they render completely useless.
So, trying the driver (provided that there is one) is worth a try. If
they do not work, just put the Agere modem into another machine as you
said or give it to a friend who can make profit of it :-)
> Thanks for the input and I'll look for the drivers and see if I can get
> them working. I'll let people know what I find out in the long run on
> this.
Whatever USB modem you finally can put into work, just tell us. That
information it can be very useful for other users looking for a similar
solution :-)
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Hal Vaughan
On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Camaleón wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:28:31 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>
>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Camaleón wrote:
>
>>> ...
>>
>> I see that, the one thing that is discouraging me is that, while I know
>> they are talking about the chip, the pictures are of PCI modems, not the
>> USB ones, and I think mine is later. (They show a USB modem on page 5,
>> but different form factor than mine.) Still, mine may work.
>
> Yep, if you carefully read that doc, it seems the shape of the device may
> vary:
>
> ***
> - Reference design will include board, connectors, USB cable,
> and plastics
> - Three different form factors
> ***
Yeah, I missed it. When I start researching, I look at everything, then as I focus on some parts, I am not as good about making sure I read all of it. Oops!
>>> ...
> Oops, sorry. I thought I already told you "sl-modem" drivers are
> available under debian "non-free" repo (lenny, squeeze, sid):
>
> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/sl-modem-daemon
>
> :-)
I found that just after writing my last email on this thread, but just before I had to leave to take my Mother to "night out" meal - didn't have time to add in that I had found it. Thanks. The issue, though, is that needs another package, one that's not a dependency, it's "sl-modem-modules-2.6.26-2-686". I'm looking, can even find it in a package pole, but can't find the package itself.
>> ...
>> But an idea hit me this summer. I haven't been programming in about 3
>> years (I'm a screenwriter by passion, so I've been doing that). This
>> idea that hit me would take several months of programming and it'd be a
>> game-changer for me in terms of income from the data mining. But to do
>> it, I have to decentralize, which means instead of having one computer
>> here doing dial-up, I'd have to put a computer in each client's office
>> and have it do dial-up there. I won't get into all the reasons and
>> thinking behind what I'm doing, but, in short, I want what's in their
>> offices to be as simple as possible and to be a black box. I do not
>> want them hooking up a keyboard or monitor to it ever. I don't even
>> want them to think of it as a computer, EVER! So I'm looking not at low
>> end as in cheap, but as in saving money and still getting a good
>> embedded system. Each system will need a modem and I'll keep backups
>> (of the computer and modem) on hand, ready to ship when needed.
>
> I see... It's quite difficult to keep the track of manufacturers making
> cheap and linux friendly devices. One has to perform a big search in the
> web (reading forums, mailing lists, asking users to get accurate
> feedback...) to find out what USB modems (chipsets) play fine with linux
> distributions.
Yes, it is. I am seriously considering, when I get the right modem and know things are lined up and am starting production of the new system, to just order 20-30 of whatever I find. I'll just eat the cost then and make it up as I deploy them. I don't want to find the right modem, order 3-4, then find it not in production anymore. Again, I'd go with RS-232, but the expense is greater and, honestly, when they're going in someone else's office, so I have to be sure I can ssh in (which is a project in itself, considering different offices and different sysadmins), I have to be aware I will NOT have hands-on access. It sounds picky, but using an adaptor on a plug in such a case is just another thing that can go wrong and that I could spend hours trouble shooting to find some oaf jarred it and there's a loose connection. The fewer the connections and the simpler the system, the more time I get to spend ballroom dancing instead of patching software. (I'm a believer in setting up a system, then letting it do the work while I don't!)
>> I have used a USB-to-RS-232 converter with success for a FOSS project to
>> control an HD radio (http://halblog.com/hdradiocontroller.html), but an
>> RS-232 modem is more expensive and the converters are expensive, too,
>> putting the price per modem well over $50 each.
>>
>> I've ordered a Rosewill that looks good. It costs more than the one I
>> have now. I'm going to try any drivers I can find for this one, but
>> considering the price of the other one, with shipping, is $30, if the
>> drivers don't work and the manufacturer doesn't help, I'm not going to
>> knock myself out over this one. I can always use it on a Windows
>> machine and use that system for testing (to have my other ones dial in).
>>
>> As it is, though, considering how cheap these are (this one and the
>> replacement people have tried on Ubuntu), I think spending more than a
>> few hours on this one might be a diminishing return. Still, if all it
>> needs are drivers, then I'll be happy with it!
>
> O.k. I also think geting an USB modem to work should just be plug and
> play and no needing to mess with drivers at all. But it could worst:
> there are some embedded modems (those you can find in notebooks) that
> lack of any driver and they render completely useless.
Yes, that's true. And, unfortunately, I had information indicating that any USB modem would be similar to RS-232 in that it'd be plug-n-play. That's not so. And, while I'm looking at embedded computers (right now I'm waiting to see if the new Soekris Net-6501 will do well for me), at least the modems aren't embedded! And if I do use Soekris, they have a serial port -- you HAVE to use as a terminal during setup, so once I get the original image created and working, I can copy it to an image file and easily install it on flash cards and just insert it, without using the serial port on each one. And when they're deployed, I may be able to use it for an RS-232 modem, but I'm not committing to that yet.
> So, trying the driver (provided that there is one) is worth a try. If
> they do not work, just put the Agere modem into another machine as you
> said or give it to a friend who can make profit of it :-)
I'm still looking for the other package, but if it means doing anything with the kernel other than installing that one package, this is the end of the lien for that modem and it gets stuck on my iMac to be used by my WinXP virtual machine under Parallels. I'm already getting close to the point that I'm concerned about all the steps it takes to use it. Adding non-free to sources.list before installing packages isn't a problem, but if I have to do config steps, that could move it out of the low-maintenence category.
>> Thanks for the input and I'll look for the drivers and see if I can get
>> them working. I'll let people know what I find out in the long run on
>> this.
>
> Whatever USB modem you finally can put into work, just tell us. That
> information it can be very useful for other users looking for a similar
> solution :-)
Definitely! I'm still trying to remember what led me to this one, whether it was a Newegg review that's been deleted, something on a web page, or that I clicked "Add to Cart" on the wrong tabbed page. I always try to document, on a reading list, the working solution, so others won't have to puzzle it out.
Thanks for all the help!
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/7D57E293-177C-4695...@halblog.com
Phil Requirements
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Camaleón wrote:
> > O.k. I also think geting an USB modem to work should just be plug and
> > play and no needing to mess with drivers at all. But it could worst:
> > there are some embedded modems (those you can find in notebooks) that
> > lack of any driver and they render completely useless.
>
> Yes, that's true. And, unfortunately, I had information indicating
> that any USB modem would be similar to RS-232 in that it'd be
> plug-n-play. That's not so. And, while I'm looking at embedded
> computers (right now I'm waiting to see if the new Soekris Net-6501
> will do well for me), at least the modems aren't embedded! And if I
> do use Soekris, they have a serial port -- you HAVE to use as a
> terminal during setup, so once I get the original image created and
> working, I can copy it to an image file and easily install it on
> flash cards and just insert it, without using the serial port on
> each one. And when they're deployed, I may be able to use it for an
> RS-232 modem, but I'm not committing to that yet.
>
I had an external USB modem that was initially very gratifying, to
use with a computer that had no serial port. I plugged it in, the
system found it, and I was online in minutes. No external drivers.
It was a very nice experience after having spent many hours trying
to get drivers to work for WinModem cards.
The one I used was US Robotics, but I can't lay my hand on it right
this minute to say the product number.
I did have some problems with this modem over time. The main thing
I remember is it would get moved from /dev/ttyUSB0 to /dev/ttyUSB1
occasionally. Or sometimes when the machine was booted the device
wouldn't get established. I don't know if these were problems with
the modem or my system.
I wanted to point out that the modem I had initially seemed very good
because of how easy installation was. But that's not the whole story.
And that there are some plug and play USB modems out there.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2010101002...@kasploosh.net
Hal Vaughan
On Oct 9, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Phil Requirements wrote:
> On 2010-10-09 19:26:42 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 6:49 PM, Camaleón wrote:
> [big snip]
>>> O.k. I also think geting an USB modem to work should just be plug and
>>> play and no needing to mess with drivers at all. But it could worst:
>>> there are some embedded modems (those you can find in notebooks) that
>>> lack of any driver and they render completely useless.
>>
>> Yes, that's true. And, unfortunately, I had information indicating
>> that any USB modem would be similar to RS-232 in that it'd be
>> plug-n-play. That's not so. And, while I'm looking at embedded
>> computers (right now I'm waiting to see if the new Soekris Net-6501
>> will do well for me), at least the modems aren't embedded! And if I
>> do use Soekris, they have a serial port -- you HAVE to use as a
>> terminal during setup, so once I get the original image created and
>> working, I can copy it to an image file and easily install it on
>> flash cards and just insert it, without using the serial port on
>> each one. And when they're deployed, I may be able to use it for an
>> RS-232 modem, but I'm not committing to that yet.
>>
>
> I had an external USB modem that was initially very gratifying, to
> use with a computer that had no serial port. I plugged it in, the
> system found it, and I was online in minutes. No external drivers.
> It was a very nice experience after having spent many hours trying
> to get drivers to work for WinModem cards.
I would think, ideally, a good modem would be like that -- as long as it responds to AT commands properly, then it wouldn't need a driver.
> The one I used was US Robotics, but I can't lay my hand on it right
> this minute to say the product number.
I saw some USR USB modems, but considering how I'll be buying a number of these, and footing the price myself (for various reasons, I can't really pass along this cost to my clients), if the $25 modem I ordered works, I'll be using it over the $45-$50 USR modems. It's pricing. Now if they're flaky, then, yes, I'll spend more, but if they work, I won't.
> I did have some problems with this modem over time. The main thing
> I remember is it would get moved from /dev/ttyUSB0 to /dev/ttyUSB1
> occasionally. Or sometimes when the machine was booted the device
> wouldn't get established. I don't know if these were problems with
> the modem or my system.
That's a USB issue. I ran into that when I was writing my code for controlling the Visteon HD radio (I have a copy of the project on my blog, but the main reason I did it was to turn it over so LinuxICE would have a radio controller). I had to write a routine that would first check the config file and look for the radio in its last place, then, if needed, send the same signal to every USB device and look for the response. The only issue is that I was worried the wake-up signal for the radio might crash some devices. I can't remember why I didn't just scan /proc/bus/usb/devices to get the info. I think I had to scan the /dev/ttySx devices. While the radio would USUALLY be at the same place it was last time, sometimes it would move.
> I wanted to point out that the modem I had initially seemed very good
> because of how easy installation was. But that's not the whole story.
> And that there are some plug and play USB modems out there.
I think, for modems, plug and play means that it simply responds to the Hayes command set through a device in /dev. I'm not sure what you'd set the serial bus speed for in a program like minicom, though.
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/9DB1B81F-0B95-4F4B...@halblog.com
Ron Johnson
[snip]
>
> but, in short, I want what's in their offices to be as simple as
> possible and to be a black box. I do not want them hooking up a
> keyboard or monitor to it ever. I don't even want them to think of
> it as a computer, EVER! So I'm looking not at low end as in cheap,
Why aren't you using an internal modem? (Unless you already
answered that question.)
--
Seek truth from facts.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Phil Requirements
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Phil Requirements wrote:
>
> > The one I used was US Robotics, but I can't lay my hand on it right
> > this minute to say the product number.
>
> I saw some USR USB modems, but considering how I'll be buying a
> number of these, and footing the price myself (for various reasons,
> I can't really pass along this cost to my clients), if the $25 modem
> I ordered works, I'll be using it over the $45-$50 USR modems. It's
> pricing. Now if they're flaky, then, yes, I'll spend more, but if
> they work, I won't.
>
I agree that you should go with the cheapest one that works as expected.
I don't mean to imply that US Robotics USB modems are better than any
other one, just mentioning that it worked for me. US Robotics had a good
reputation around hardware modems, but then they made WinModems, and
now these USB modems are a breed apart from either of those two. Now
their reputation is ?
I bet part of what you get for $47 from USR is their name brand, and
maybe a RMA policy or warrantee. But if a Rosewill behaves the same, I
doubt the hardware will be much different or more flaky. I'm out on a
limb here, though, because I haven't actually tested different brands
or looked at the hardware.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101010065...@kasploosh.net
Camaleón
> On 2010-10-09 20:22:41 +0000, Camaleón wrote:
>> When it comes to modems and linux, the only way to hit the right device
>> is by using a RS-232 modem. No drivers needed and straight-forward
>> setup for all kind of services (dial-up connection, fax facility...).
>>
>> Yes, yes... I know. Serial port is a scarce resource in modern
>> motherboards and n[eo]tbook computers ;-(
>>
>>
> I was connecting by dialup only for about three years until recently. I
> agree that RS-232 hardware modems are good.
>
> But there is also a new breed of external USB modems that works just as
> easily. The one I bought was US Robotics. It was plug and play, no
> additional driver needed.
>
> I bought that modem because the computer that used it did not have a
> serial port.
Yes, US Robotics is in the modem business for years and I would expect
they make good hardware. But their USB modems are also a bit expensive :-)
***
U.S. Robotics USR5637 56Kbps USB High-performance V.92 modem
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825104006
***
Nevertheless, if we look at the "Feedback" tab, it seems to play nice
with Linux systems.
Hal Vaughan
Even after playing around for a while, and with help from others (see other emails in this thread), I could not get the other modem to work properly. I did try the sl-modem drivers from the non-free repositories. They would create /dev/modem and link it to /dev/ttySL0, but even with that, it wouldn't work.
When I tested any modem, I did two things: 1) I used Minicom, which is a great term program, and 2) I used my own Perl program that would open a device as a file to read and write to, then send the ATZ command (with a newline character after it) and I'd see if anything came back. I missed a few details on this program, but once I got it to work (tested it on an RS232 modem on another box), I would see the ATZ printed on the console (as well as knowing it was supposedly sent to the device) and I'd see a blank line, then OK. No matter what I did with Minicom or my Perl script, I could not communicate with the Encore modem.
Today I received another USB modem, a Rosewill RNX-56USB from NewEgg. The link to that item is:
<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825164005>
(It's NewEgg item number is in the URL, if they change their web page system.)
I had read that for many USB modems, when you plug it in, it's recognized and set up as /dev/ttyACM0. (Second one is ACM1 and so on.) I was frustrated that didn't happen, since several of the reviews said it worked "out of the box" and without any binary drivers on Linux. So I took a while to spend some quality time with my close and dear friend, Google. By comparing the info from /proc/bus/usb/devices and other info, I found this site:
And, to make a long story short, this link:
http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/dgc/index.php
I will add that their instructions are a bit outdated. The Download link on that page leads to a license page, then to a page where you can download the file "cnxinstall.run." Make sure you have installed unzip first, before running it. Since I'm using this for an embedded system, I have as little installed as I could get away with. I had to add it, after getting "does not work" messages.
All you have to do is download that file, then do this:
1) cd to the directory with that file in it
2) chmod +x cnxinstall.run
3) ./cnxinstall.run OR if you don't have a GUI on the system, run ./cnxinstall -- --tty (yes, there is an extra "--" in there that is needed!)
4) Answer questions and it'll download (or maybe it was already there) a .deb file it'll install.
Once that's done, you have /dev/ttyACM0 and your modem will work. I had to initialize it with Minicom the first time, but after that, my Perl script worked fine. I suspect rebooting would have re-initialized the modem.
I would prefer to not have to download drivers, but the advantage is that it's in a .deb format.
Now I have a few notes on this, since there's been a few private conversations with people who are in or have seen this thread.
1) I'm basically making a "black box" for the people I'm working with. I do NOT want them messing with the computer I give them. Many times, in embedded systems, there is no PCI slot. Sometimes there is, but I can't count on that. (I haven't picked my hardware config yet.) So I really need an external modem since the only connection I can count on is a USB connector. (Even with embedded, most systems have 2 or more USB connectors, and some people may need to hook up a printer there.)
2) I can't count on having an RS232 interface, so that rules out a lot of good modems.
3) Yes, I know about US Robotics, I have known about them since my Apple ][e days. (Yes, I'm that ancient!) However, their modem is almost twice as much as this one and if things go well, I could need 20 or more of these systems, and 20 * $20 = $400. That pays for 40 group Argentine tango lessons or almost pays for a 10 pack of private ballroom lessons. I'd rather be dancing with women than spending extra on modems when I don't have to. I know that's just crazy and silly, but that's the way I am.
4) I spent the better part of an afternoon and evening on trying to get the Encore modem to work and couldn't, so I ordered the Rosewill one. Yes, I'd love to have pursued it, but considering that, at this point, I'm only working with one modem and not mass-ordering them, it makes no sense to spend hours on making a modem work when $30 will get me one that should work. Again, I know it's silly, but I'd rather be dancing with women than working at my computer. At some point, if an idea hits me, I may go back to working on the Encore modem, but for now I don't see the point of investing more time in it.
Thanks to all that helped me with this. I would love it if I didn't need to add another package, especially one not in repositories, but this works and it doesn't take much to work, and including this package as part of my setup won't be too hard at all. I don't know what kind of reputation Rosewill has, but I've had good luck with them, so I'll be sticking with their modem for now and when I get to doing the mass-ordering as well.
If people still have more suggestions, I'm still open, but I'm not going to spend hours Googling or researching or compiling to get the Encore working.
Again, thanks for the help!
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1F2A185D-3BF4-4E14...@halblog.com
Phil Requirements
> Comments and some info at the bottom, so it makes sense when you read it. (Hey, there's NO way I'm going to top post on this list!)
>
> conversations with people who are in or have seen this thread.
>
> 1) I'm basically making a "black box" for the people I'm working
> with. I do NOT want them messing with the computer I give them.
> Many times, in embedded systems, there is no PCI slot. Sometimes
> there is, but I can't count on that. (I haven't picked my hardware
> config yet.) So I really need an external modem since the only
> connection I can count on is a USB connector. (Even with embedded,
> most systems have 2 or more USB connectors, and some people may need
> to hook up a printer there.)
I see that here in Point 1 you rule out a PCI card-based solution
while also admitting that the hardware has not yet been specified. It
seems feasible that if you found a really great and cheap PCI modem,
you could spec the hardware around that.
I mention this because it seems to me that an external USB modem is
not very "black box". There would be your discrete little appliance
with a very conspicuous dongle coming off it. A PCI internal modem
that fits inside the appliance would be much more black-box-like.
The problem with PCI card modems is that they are not so likely to
support GNU/Linux. So they aren't a clear winner. But they would be
better for a black box.
> 2) I can't count on having an RS232 interface, so that rules out a
> lot of good modems.
Another problem with these hardware modems is that they are large
and require their own power supply, so they are not at all
resembling a black box.
> 3) Yes, I know about US Robotics, I have known about them since my
> Apple ][e days. (Yes, I'm that ancient!) However, their modem is
> almost twice as much as this one and if things go well, I could need
> 20 or more of these systems, and 20 * $20 = $400. That pays for 40
> group Argentine tango lessons or almost pays for a 10 pack of
> private ballroom lessons. I'd rather be dancing with women than
> spending extra on modems when I don't have to. I know that's just
> crazy and silly, but that's the way I am.
Don't pay more than you have to, as long as everything works
to your standard.
> 4) I spent the better part of an afternoon and evening on trying to
> get the Encore modem to work and couldn't, so I ordered the Rosewill
> one. Yes, I'd love to have pursued it, but considering that, at
> this point, I'm only working with one modem and not mass-ordering
> them, it makes no sense to spend hours on making a modem work when
> $30 will get me one that should work. Again, I know it's silly, but
> I'd rather be dancing with women than working at my computer. At
> some point, if an idea hits me, I may go back to working on the
> Encore modem, but for now I don't see the point of investing more
> time in it.
I agree that for your purposes it does not make sense to try to make
the Encore modem work, since you are trying to set up something worth
replicating. Why spend many hours battling a modem if you don't have
to?
> Thanks to all that helped me with this. I would love it if I didn't
> need to add another package, especially one not in repositories, but
> this works and it doesn't take much to work, and including this
> package as part of my setup won't be too hard at all. I don't know
> what kind of reputation Rosewill has, but I've had good luck with
> them, so I'll be sticking with their modem for now and when I get to
> doing the mass-ordering as well.
>
> If people still have more suggestions, I'm still open, but I'm not
> going to spend hours Googling or researching or compiling to get the
> Encore working.
>
> Again, thanks for the help!
>
> Hal
>
Thank you for posting the update on this issue. It is interesting to
know the outcome of all the work you are doing.
I think you Rosewill solution is fine, though I would want to make
sure it performs well over time before deploying two dozen of them.
I only responded because I have this nagging feeling that, as
long as you're going to all this trouble, a PCI card-based solution
would be a lot more black-box-like.
On the other hand, I get the feeling that you do not want the R&D
phase to go on for a long time, because it is cutting in to your other
interests. In which case you might not want to investigate every
possible approach.
Phil
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101018043...@kasploosh.net
Hal Vaughan
On Oct 18, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Phil Requirements wrote:
> On 2010-10-13 22:28:10 -0400, Hal Vaughan wrote:
>> Comments and some info at the bottom, so it makes sense when you read it. (Hey, there's NO way I'm going to top post on this list!)
>>
>> Now I have a few notes on this, since there's been a few private
>> conversations with people who are in or have seen this thread.
>>
>> 1) I'm basically making a "black box" for the people I'm working
>> with. I do NOT want them messing with the computer I give them.
>> Many times, in embedded systems, there is no PCI slot. Sometimes
>> there is, but I can't count on that. (I haven't picked my hardware
>> config yet.) So I really need an external modem since the only
>> connection I can count on is a USB connector. (Even with embedded,
>> most systems have 2 or more USB connectors, and some people may need
>> to hook up a printer there.)
>
> I see that here in Point 1 you rule out a PCI card-based solution
> while also admitting that the hardware has not yet been specified. It
> seems feasible that if you found a really great and cheap PCI modem,
> you could spec the hardware around that.
I spent close to a week researching possible mobos or all-in-one package systems. Some boards do have PCI slots, but some don't, so that's a big issue to consider. I'd much rather be able to spec the hardware around the mobo than a modem. Also, if I go for something like Soekris, which I like, but which may cost more than I want (they still haven't released final specs and cost on their Net6501, which is what I'd likely use), using a PCI card would be problematical. While I've seen PCI slots on their boards, I'd have to cut a hole in it to allow someone to plug a phone cable in.
That's one of the two biggest strikes against a PCI modem: I can't be sure how it'll fit in with the rest, and finding an appropriate mobo or mobo/case combo is a bigger concern than using a PCI modem. If I go in order of my reasoning, I listed that as strike 2 against PCI modems.
> I mention this because it seems to me that an external USB modem is
> not very "black box". There would be your discrete little appliance
> with a very conspicuous dongle coming off it. A PCI internal modem
> that fits inside the appliance would be much more black-box-like.
I agree. Until I read how you phrased it here, I had not thought of stating my reasoning here. I'll be working intelligent people who work in technical fields, but not in computer fields. The tradeoff is that if I need someone in another city to work with me so I can walk them through solving a problem so I don't have to make 4-10 hour round trip to get there and end up just flipping a switch, that's good, since they can work with me. But, on the flip side, when you're working with someone with an intelligent and technical mind, they're the ones more likely to think they can break the rules in some way because they know they're smart.
I'm more concerned about this being "black boxy" in terms of them not trying to log on or hook up a keyboard and monitor than anything else. I don't want them thinking of this box as a computer where, if it starts acting odd, they think they can work with.
On the other hand, even though I'm within 8 miles of the state capital building, I didn't get broadband for years, due to bureaucratic attitudes at the cable company (which kept changing ownership) and Verizon. I had to work with Linux and dial-up modems for several years. I also had to replace my PCI modems every few months. I don't remember why, but I do remember tossing out a lot of PCI modems that worked and stopped working. Sometimes it was due to a distro upgrade, other times it was a new modem that docs said would work that didn't.
If a PCI modem goes bad on me, then it means paying for them to ship me the unit overnight, me replacing it and sending it back overnight. If a USB modem goes bad, it means having a new one drop-shipped from Newegg. Considering package size, that's much easier and cheaper than replacing a PCI modem.
That, on my list, was strike 3 against PCI.
> The problem with PCI card modems is that they are not so likely to
> support GNU/Linux. So they aren't a clear winner. But they would be
> better for a black box.
And that was my strike 1 against PCI -- along with seeing some work now and not with later drivers.
As I said, my "black box" was a bit of a compromise. It's a black box as far as being something a user can log onto, but not 100% in that it has the external modem. Still, what I'm looking at now includes the embedded box, a PCI modem, and a wall-wart transformer. All the user has to do on receiving it is plug in a CAT5, plug in the USB modem, plug the RJ11 into the modem, and hook up and plug in the wall-wart. The modem does add 2 steps, but they're VERY simple steps.
>> 2) I can't count on having an RS232 interface, so that rules out a
>> lot of good modems.
>
> Another problem with these hardware modems is that they are large
> and require their own power supply, so they are not at all
> resembling a black box.
Yes. I use an RS232 on the system I'm using now, it's USR. It's about 1.5" high and 3"x7" base and needs its own wall-wart. While I like and use the flashing lights for trouble shooting, it also helps not have flashing lights on the unit the users will have.
>> 3) Yes, I know about US Robotics, I have known about them since my
>> Apple ][e days. (Yes, I'm that ancient!) However, their modem is
>> almost twice as much as this one and if things go well, I could need
>> 20 or more of these systems, and 20 * $20 = $400. That pays for 40
>> group Argentine tango lessons or almost pays for a 10 pack of
>> private ballroom lessons. I'd rather be dancing with women than
>> spending extra on modems when I don't have to. I know that's just
>> crazy and silly, but that's the way I am.
>
> Don't pay more than you have to, as long as everything works
> to your standard.
Exactly!
>> 4) I spent the better part of an afternoon and evening on trying to
>> get the Encore modem to work and couldn't, so I ordered the Rosewill
>> one. Yes, I'd love to have pursued it, but considering that, at
>> this point, I'm only working with one modem and not mass-ordering
>> them, it makes no sense to spend hours on making a modem work when
>> $30 will get me one that should work. Again, I know it's silly, but
>> I'd rather be dancing with women than working at my computer. At
>> some point, if an idea hits me, I may go back to working on the
>> Encore modem, but for now I don't see the point of investing more
>> time in it.
>
> I agree that for your purposes it does not make sense to try to make
> the Encore modem work, since you are trying to set up something worth
> replicating. Why spend many hours battling a modem if you don't have
> to?
And, as a Linux geek, there's the other factor: Often we get a piece of hardware and spend hours or, literally, days on making it work. When I started my business, I would spend 2 days to save $20 because I didn't have $20. I have income now and I would rather spend another $20 for a new modem that is documented as working than spend several days getting it to work. I have other goals and, as I've said, much more in life to do than be at the computer, so it was really a revelation for me when I realized, "This is a $15 part. Just get a new one. At this point, spending even 2 hours on it is a loss of time and money." True, as a geek, I wanted to "win," but there's no reason to, in this case. That won't help others who have the same modem, though.
>> Thanks to all that helped me with this. I would love it if I didn't
>> need to add another package, especially one not in repositories, but
>> this works and it doesn't take much to work, and including this
>> package as part of my setup won't be too hard at all. I don't know
>> what kind of reputation Rosewill has, but I've had good luck with
>> them, so I'll be sticking with their modem for now and when I get to
>> doing the mass-ordering as well.
>>
>> If people still have more suggestions, I'm still open, but I'm not
>> going to spend hours Googling or researching or compiling to get the
>> Encore working.
>>
>> Again, thanks for the help!
>>
>> Hal
>>
>
> Thank you for posting the update on this issue. It is interesting to
> know the outcome of all the work you are doing.
>
> I think you Rosewill solution is fine, though I would want to make
> sure it performs well over time before deploying two dozen of them.
Yes, I'll be testing it, but while I was waiting for it to come in, I started on another part of the program, so it'll be a while before I get back to the online routines and test them.
> I only responded because I have this nagging feeling that, as
> long as you're going to all this trouble, a PCI card-based solution
> would be a lot more black-box-like.
>
> On the other hand, I get the feeling that you do not want the R&D
> phase to go on for a long time, because it is cutting in to your other
> interests. In which case you might not want to investigate every
> possible approach.
I started what I'm doing in FEB of 2002 and worked solidly for years on it, until I was burned out and had to stop. Fortunately it was at the point that it was viable and the money kept coming in and the computers kept doing their jobs. I'm returning to it because I can raise my income, and the main reason for doing that is to fund the film production company I'm starting. So you're right. I want this work done because the sooner it's done, the sooner I can focus on my writing and film production. I like programming, but my passion is writing screenplays, so my rule for this phase is to save time in whatever way possible without compromising the important factors (like workability, usability, and security).
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
Hal
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/35CDCB81-BC6C-47CF...@halblog.com