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vga=ask doesn't work anymore
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Dirk
May 19, 2013, 10:40:02 PM5/19/13
to
hello,
do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs i
found online surely doesn't work...
so i reverted to grub-legacy...
doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
says that vga=ask is still there...
but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
features...
it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes a
badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the linux
marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is bye bye...
Dirk
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do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs i
found online surely doesn't work...
so i reverted to grub-legacy...
doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
says that vga=ask is still there...
but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
features...
it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes a
badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the linux
marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is bye bye...
Dirk
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sp113438
May 19, 2013, 10:50:01 PM5/19/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:59:43 +0200
Dirk <noi...@pwnoogle.com> wrote:
> hello,
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs i
> found online surely doesn't work...
>
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
> says that vga=ask is still there...
>
> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
>
> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> features...
I don't like grub2.
Dirk <noi...@pwnoogle.com> wrote:
> hello,
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs i
> found online surely doesn't work...
>
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
> says that vga=ask is still there...
>
> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
>
> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> features...
Try lilo.
> it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
>
> i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes a
> badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
> i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the linux
> marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is bye bye...
> Dirk
>
>
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Klearchos-Angelos Gkountras
May 19, 2013, 10:50:01 PM5/19/13
to
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
> hello,
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> i found online surely doesn't work...
what branch of debian do you use ? if you are using now testing or sid
> hello,
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> i found online surely doesn't work...
you sould to move to stable . if
>
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
> says that vga=ask is still there...
>
> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
>
> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> features...
>
> it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
yes I see one right now -- you ..
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
> says that vga=ask is still there...
>
> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
>
> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> features...
>
> it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
>
> i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes
> a badly re-invented windows..
the code of gnu / linux and debian is public . You can take and fix the
> i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes
> a badly re-invented windows..
programm . You probably to read Gnu / Linux != windows [0]
>as a warning for freebsd...
>
> i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the
> linux marketing has started writing the linux code now..
>so it is
> bye bye...
why to send the mail to debian user list and not developers list
>
> i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the
> linux marketing has started writing the linux code now..
>so it is
> bye bye...
maybe they will have will have your anwser ..
>
>
>
> Dirk
>
>
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>
[0] http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
>
>
> Dirk
>
>
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staticsafe
May 19, 2013, 11:00:01 PM5/19/13
to
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
> hello,
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> i found online surely doesn't work...
>
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
I would love for you to tell that to the face of the Debian developers
>
> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> i found online surely doesn't work...
>
> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>
> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
who work very hard on every release.
>
> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
> says that vga=ask is still there...
>
> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
Grub2, it is still available with the linux16 command in Grub2 as it is
with the linux command in Grub-legacy. If Grub2 displays "vga=ext is
deprecated. Use set gfxpayload=text before linux command instead" you
don't need to downgrade to grub-legacy. Just replace linux and initrd by
linux16 and initrd16 in each menuentry bloc you want to use VGA mode and
add vga=ext or vga=F01 near the end of the linux16 line to get 80x50
text consoles instead of framebuffer. You may also replace ext by F00,
F01, F02, F03, F05, F06 or F07 to get alternate VGA text resolutions
(respectively 80x25, 80x50, 80x43, 80x28, 80x30, 80x34 and 80x60). Use
vga=ask to get a chance at boot time to list all available VGA/VESA
resolutions and chose one interactively before Grub2 passes control to
the kernel. If you edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg instead of
/etc/grub.d/10_linux remember your changes will be dropped if
update-grub is launched. By the way, vga=normal is equivalent to vga=F00
and vga=ext is equivalent to vga=F01.
- http://wiki.debian.org/GrubTransition#fndef-231bbb76472490d8f289f110d30d2d982e08a663-0
>
> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> features...
>
> it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
>
> i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes
> a badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
>
> i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the
> linux marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is
> bye bye...
>
>
>
> Dirk
--
staticsafe
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Dirk
May 19, 2013, 11:40:02 PM5/19/13
to
On 05/20/13 04:57, staticsafe wrote:
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
>> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
>> i found online surely doesn't work...
>>
>> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>>
>> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
>
> I would love for you to tell that to the face of the Debian developers
> who work very hard on every release.
i know they work hard.. that is probably the reason why such rather
> On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
>> hello,
>>
>> do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
>> offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
>> i found online surely doesn't work...
>>
>> so i reverted to grub-legacy...
>>
>> doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
>
>
> I would love for you to tell that to the face of the Debian developers
> who work very hard on every release.
subtle regressions escape them..
>>
>> because when i look in the documentation of the linux kernel it sure
>> says that vga=ask is still there...
>>
>> but something retarded as a boot loader removes kernel options now?
>
> Althought the vga=ext option is deprecated with the linux command in
> Grub2, it is still available with the linux16 command in Grub2 as it is
> with the linux command in Grub-legacy. If Grub2 displays "vga=ext is
> deprecated. Use set gfxpayload=text before linux command instead" you
> don't need to downgrade to grub-legacy. Just replace linux and initrd by
> linux16 and initrd16 in each menuentry bloc you want to use VGA mode and
> add vga=ext or vga=F01 near the end of the linux16 line to get 80x50
> text consoles instead of framebuffer. You may also replace ext by F00,
> F01, F02, F03, F05, F06 or F07 to get alternate VGA text resolutions
> (respectively 80x25, 80x50, 80x43, 80x28, 80x30, 80x34 and 80x60). Use
> vga=ask to get a chance at boot time to list all available VGA/VESA
> resolutions and chose one interactively before Grub2 passes control to
> the kernel. If you edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg instead of
> /etc/grub.d/10_linux remember your changes will be dropped if
> update-grub is launched. By the way, vga=normal is equivalent to vga=F00
> and vga=ext is equivalent to vga=F01.
>
> - http://wiki.debian.org/GrubTransition#fndef-231bbb76472490d8f289f110d30d2d982e08a663-0
but... i ask myself: /why/ i am supposed to read and memorize all this
when even /lilo/ is still working...?
lilo, then grub, then grub2... no real change in functionality... a
kernel gets booted.. that's it... but all three function differently...
it is like someone wants to keep frustrating 08/15-users before linux
has even booted...
>>
>> wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
>> windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
>> features...
>>
>> it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
>>
>
> Perhaps you are referring to yourself there?
windows or linux... people who do not care... but to whom everyone is
catering and ruining linux as an operating system..
just look at all the bloat the ubuntu desktop requires to "start a
program by clicking on a little icon"... it is a total joke..
>> i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes
>> a badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
>>
>> i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the
>> linux marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is
>> bye bye...
>
> Goodbye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
>
Dirk
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staticsafe
May 20, 2013, 12:10:01 AM5/20/13
to
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 05:15:54AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
> On 05/20/13 04:57, staticsafe wrote:
> >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
> >>hello,
> >>
> >>do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> >>offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> >>i found online surely doesn't work...
> >>
> >>so i reverted to grub-legacy...
> >>
> >>doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
> >
> >
> >I would love for you to tell that to the face of the Debian developers
> >who work very hard on every release.
>
> i know they work hard.. that is probably the reason why such rather
> subtle regressions escape them..
>
One man's regression is another man's progression. Either way, somebody
> On 05/20/13 04:57, staticsafe wrote:
> >On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 02:59:43AM +0200, Dirk wrote:
> >>hello,
> >>
> >>do I see that right that vga=ask has been removed in grub2 without
> >>offering a working replacement? because all those gfxpayload=bla bs
> >>i found online surely doesn't work...
> >>
> >>so i reverted to grub-legacy...
> >>
> >>doesn't anybody check the crap that makes it into debian anymore?
> >
> >
> >I would love for you to tell that to the face of the Debian developers
> >who work very hard on every release.
>
> i know they work hard.. that is probably the reason why such rather
> subtle regressions escape them..
>
noticed the change and put up the wiki page I linked.
(specifically kernel package installation scripts).
The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
>
> >>
> >>wow... just wow.. i thought the linux desktop would have tiles like
> >>windows8 but this is even worse... a bootloader breaks the kernel
> >>features...
> >>
> >>it really shows that linux is used by too many idiots now...
> >>
> >
> >Perhaps you are referring to yourself there?
>
> no i refer to people to whom it doesn't make a difference if they
> use windows or linux... people who do not care... but to whom
> everyone is catering and ruining linux as an operating system..
>
> just look at all the bloat the ubuntu desktop requires to "start a
> program by clicking on a little icon"... it is a total joke..
>
> >>i'll start a wiki on this bullshit.. how linux step-by-step becomes
> >>a badly re-invented windows.. as a warning for freebsd...
> >>
> >>i don't care about the user base my OS of choice has... but the
> >>linux marketing has started writing the linux code now.. so it is
> >>bye bye...
> >
> >Goodbye, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
> >
>
> not so fast.. there is still gentoo... :(
>
>
> Dirk
>
--
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Stan Hoeppner
May 20, 2013, 1:30:02 AM5/20/13
to
On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
> You can use Lilo if you so choose,
I do.
> You can use Lilo if you so choose,
> but don't expect integration
> (specifically kernel package installation scripts).
ext2 /boot partition.
> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
boot, and includes other features that tend to take control of the
machine away from the user. That's not freedom.
> Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
myself, choose to stick with LILO. If I had to come up with one word to
describe today's LILO users, it would probably be "purists". We want a
reliable boot loader that is as basic as can be and accomplish the
simple, single job of loading the OS kernel.
--
Stan
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Ralf Mardorf
May 20, 2013, 2:00:02 AM5/20/13
to
On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 00:26 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
> some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
> myself, choose to stick with LILO. If I had to come up with one word to
> describe today's LILO users, it would probably be "purists". We want a
> reliable boot loader that is as basic as can be and accomplish the
> simple, single job of loading the OS kernel.
If you want a multi-boot including FreeBSD, there might be the need to
> They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
> some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
> myself, choose to stick with LILO. If I had to come up with one word to
> describe today's LILO users, it would probably be "purists". We want a
> reliable boot loader that is as basic as can be and accomplish the
> simple, single job of loading the OS kernel.
use GRUB2. That's because I switched back from GRUB legacy to GRUB2.
OTOH I can boot FreeBSD using the chainloader, so I guess I could use
any other bootloader too.
I'm not an expert, but many experts claim that GRUB is crap and better
code is Syslinux.
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Sven Joachim
May 20, 2013, 2:50:02 AM5/20/13
to
On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>
>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>
> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>
>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>
> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
anymore.
> which includes secure
> boot, and includes other features that tend to take control of the
> machine away from the user. That's not freedom.
restricts or enhances user freedom depends on your ability to install
your own keys.
>> Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
>
> They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
> some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
> myself, choose to stick with LILO.
Cheers,
Sven
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Stan Hoeppner
May 20, 2013, 4:50:02 AM5/20/13
to
On 5/20/2013 1:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>
>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>
>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>
> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
> anymore.
Some big box vendors have switched or are switching to UEFI. But the
> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>
>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>
>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>
> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
> anymore.
x86 channel mobo manufacturers have not, nor have embedded platform
vendors using MIPS and ARM. And they don't appear to have immediate, or
any, plans to do so. We'll never see the day that "everything is UEFI".
UEFI is little endian only and will never be usable on some embedded
RISC processor platforms. Linux will be required to support many
different flavors of system board firmware now and into the distant future.
"The world" hasn't given up on PC BIOS. I build my systems, AMD only,
and I don't see any signs of PC BIOS disappearing any time soon from AMD
channel mobos. Recall that EFI and by extension UEFI are the children
of the failed Intel Itanium chip. UEFI is being pushed as a standard by
Intel and now Microsoft, not AMD nor VIA, nor the FLOSS community. Some
of the latter are being dragged kicking and screaming. Some aren't
buying in.
>> which includes secure
>> boot, and includes other features that tend to take control of the
>> machine away from the user. That's not freedom.
>
> Debian does not support secure boot as of now, and whether secure boot
> restricts or enhances user freedom depends on your ability to install
> your own keys.
>>> Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
>>
>> They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
>> some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
>> myself, choose to stick with LILO.
>
> Good luck in patching LILO to work without a BIOS.
going UEFI only. I'm sure I've got a few years.
--
Stan
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Sven Joachim
May 20, 2013, 5:40:02 AM5/20/13
to
On 2013-05-20 10:44 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> On 5/20/2013 1:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>>
>>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>>
>> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
>> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
>> anymore.
>
> Some big box vendors have switched or are switching to UEFI. But the
> x86 channel mobo manufacturers have not, nor have embedded platform
> vendors using MIPS and ARM.
MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either, and *all*
> On 5/20/2013 1:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>>
>>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>>
>> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
>> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
>> anymore.
>
> Some big box vendors have switched or are switching to UEFI. But the
> x86 channel mobo manufacturers have not, nor have embedded platform
> vendors using MIPS and ARM.
x86 motherboards have to support UEFI these days. It is a requirement
for the Windows 8 logo, and Windows won't boot from GPT partitioned
disks with a traditional BIOS - people want to be able to use hard disks
bigger than 2 TiB under Windows.
> UEFI is little endian only and will never be usable on some embedded
> RISC processor platforms. Linux will be required to support many
> different flavors of system board firmware now and into the distant future.
and LILO, and those are pretty much x86 specific.
>> Debian does not support secure boot as of now, and whether secure boot
>> restricts or enhances user freedom depends on your ability to install
>> your own keys.
>
> Even if you can, the fact that you have to restricts freedom to a degree.
> I'll start worrying about this when channel vendors announce they're
> going UEFI only. I'm sure I've got a few years.
Cheers,
Sven
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Stephen Powell
May 20, 2013, 5:40:02 PM5/20/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 22:57:28 -0400 (EDT), staticsafe wrote:
>
> Althought the vga=ext option is deprecated with the linux command in
> Grub2, it is still available with the linux16 command in Grub2 as it is
> with the linux command in Grub-legacy. If Grub2 displays "vga=ext is
> deprecated. Use set gfxpayload=text before linux command instead" you
> don't need to downgrade to grub-legacy. Just replace linux and initrd by
> linux16 and initrd16 in each menuentry bloc you want to use VGA mode and
> add vga=ext or vga=F01 near the end of the linux16 line to get 80x50
> text consoles instead of framebuffer. You may also replace ext by F00,
> F01, F02, F03, F05, F06 or F07 to get alternate VGA text resolutions
> (respectively 80x25, 80x50, 80x43, 80x28, 80x30, 80x34 and 80x60). Use
> vga=ask to get a chance at boot time to list all available VGA/VESA
> resolutions and chose one interactively before Grub2 passes control to
> the kernel. If you edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg instead of
> /etc/grub.d/10_linux remember your changes will be dropped if
> update-grub is launched. By the way, vga=normal is equivalent to vga=F00
> and vga=ext is equivalent to vga=F01.
>
> - http://wiki.debian.org/GrubTransition#fndef-231bbb76472490d8f289f110d30d2d982e08a663-0
Thanks for posting this, staticsafe. I am a lilo user, but if I am ever
>
> Althought the vga=ext option is deprecated with the linux command in
> Grub2, it is still available with the linux16 command in Grub2 as it is
> with the linux command in Grub-legacy. If Grub2 displays "vga=ext is
> deprecated. Use set gfxpayload=text before linux command instead" you
> don't need to downgrade to grub-legacy. Just replace linux and initrd by
> linux16 and initrd16 in each menuentry bloc you want to use VGA mode and
> add vga=ext or vga=F01 near the end of the linux16 line to get 80x50
> text consoles instead of framebuffer. You may also replace ext by F00,
> F01, F02, F03, F05, F06 or F07 to get alternate VGA text resolutions
> (respectively 80x25, 80x50, 80x43, 80x28, 80x30, 80x34 and 80x60). Use
> vga=ask to get a chance at boot time to list all available VGA/VESA
> resolutions and chose one interactively before Grub2 passes control to
> the kernel. If you edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg instead of
> /etc/grub.d/10_linux remember your changes will be dropped if
> update-grub is launched. By the way, vga=normal is equivalent to vga=F00
> and vga=ext is equivalent to vga=F01.
>
> - http://wiki.debian.org/GrubTransition#fndef-231bbb76472490d8f289f110d30d2d982e08a663-0
forced to use grub2 in the future, at least I now know how to get the
vga option to work.
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Stephen Powell
May 20, 2013, 5:40:02 PM5/20/13
to
On Sun, 19 May 2013 23:15:54 -0400 (EDT), Dirk wrote:
>
> but... i ask myself: /why/ i am supposed to read and memorize all this
> when even /lilo/ is still working...?
>
> lilo, then grub, then grub2... no real change in functionality... a
> kernel gets booted.. that's it... but all three function differently...
>
> it is like someone wants to keep frustrating 08/15-users before linux
> has even booted...
I don't know what you mean by "08/15-users", but if you decide you want
>
> but... i ask myself: /why/ i am supposed to read and memorize all this
> when even /lilo/ is still working...?
>
> lilo, then grub, then grub2... no real change in functionality... a
> kernel gets booted.. that's it... but all three function differently...
>
> it is like someone wants to keep frustrating 08/15-users before linux
> has even booted...
to switch back to lilo, you might find the following web page useful:
http://users.wowway.com/~zlinuxman/lilo.htm
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Stephen Powell
May 20, 2013, 5:50:02 PM5/20/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 02:48:55 -0400 (EDT), Sven wrote:
>
> Good luck in patching LILO to work without a BIOS.
It is true that lilo requires a BIOS interface. However, many
>
> Good luck in patching LILO to work without a BIOS.
EFI/UEFI machines also provide a BIOS for forward compatibility;
so lilo may still work.
However, for those EFI/UEFI machines that do not have a BIOS
interface, those looking for an alternative to grub2 may want
to look at elilo. I've never used it myself; but it appears
that elilo is a boot loader based in design on lilo that is
designed to use the EFI interface. I'd be interested in
feedback from elilo users out there on how well it works and
how they like it.
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Stan Hoeppner
May 20, 2013, 10:10:01 PM5/20/13
to
On 5/20/2013 4:30 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2013-05-20 10:44 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/20/2013 1:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>>> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>>>
>>>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>>>
>>> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
>>> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
>>> anymore.
>>
>> Some big box vendors have switched or are switching to UEFI. But the
>> x86 channel mobo manufacturers have not, nor have embedded platform
>> vendors using MIPS and ARM.
>
> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
Yes, that was my point. You'll probably never see UEFI on these
> On 2013-05-20 10:44 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/20/2013 1:48 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>>> On 2013-05-20 07:26 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/19/2013 11:04 PM, staticsafe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Debian developers (and many other distros) have chosen to put their
>>>>> support behind GRUB2 which allows for (please correct me, if I'm wrong)
>>>>> features like UEFI support and better support for automation.
>>>>
>>>> It's an odd play for Debian to get behind UEFI
>>>
>>> It's not really Debian's choice, the world is finally giving up on the
>>> BIOS and your next machine might very well not provide such an interface
>>> anymore.
>>
>> Some big box vendors have switched or are switching to UEFI. But the
>> x86 channel mobo manufacturers have not, nor have embedded platform
>> vendors using MIPS and ARM.
>
> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
platforms. So LILO could be used basically forever.
> and *all*
> x86 motherboards have to support UEFI these days.
right now without UEFI than with, which all meet the Windows 8 base
requirements and will boot and run the OS just fine.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements
> It is a requirement
> for the Windows 8 logo,
been to a large degree a big flop (the other is obviously the horrible
interface). Read in the press how Microsoft has been blaming hardware
OEMs for the failure of Windows 8 in the marketplace:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/24/windows_8_blame_game/
And this ramp up of Windows 8 logo certified hardware isn't limited to
touchscreen notebooks. FYI, there are brand new Intel socket mobos
hitting the market *with* UEFI that don't carry the Windows 8 logo.
They have the Windows Vista and Windows 7 logos, but not 8. What does
that say?
> and Windows won't boot from GPT partitioned
> disks with a traditional BIOS - people want to be able to use hard disks
> bigger than 2 TiB under Windows.
devices. The OS was not designed for desktops; they were an
afterthought. Microsoft has made this perfectly clear. And it's
another reason why Win8 has flopped. There are no [note|net]book
computers shipping with 2TB+ 2.5" or 1.8" drives, so this is a non
issue. Is anyone even making a 2TB+ 2.5" drive? Last I checked the
largest on the market is 1TB.
>> UEFI is little endian only and will never be usable on some embedded
>> RISC processor platforms. Linux will be required to support many
>> different flavors of system board firmware now and into the distant future.
>
> This may be so, but this thread is about the vga=ask kernel parameter
> and LILO, and those are pretty much x86 specific.
are responsible for some of that drift. The point here is that UEFI
support is not mandatory nor required for Linux or its boot loaders, nor
must it be in the future. UEFI is more political than technical. The
fact that Intel created it, for a doomed processor architecture at that,
then moved it to x86, and the fact that its partner in "Wintel"
Microsoft adopted and pushed it, is indicative of this.
>>> Debian does not support secure boot as of now, and whether secure boot
>>> restricts or enhances user freedom depends on your ability to install
>>> your own keys.
>>
>> Even if you can, the fact that you have to restricts freedom to a degree.
>
> You don't have to, just turn Secure Boot off if you don't like it.
>> I'll start worrying about this when channel vendors announce they're
>> going UEFI only. I'm sure I've got a few years.
>
> There are already laptops which do not provide a BIOS interface anymore.
market. My argument has been that UEFI isn't anywhere close to being
dominant, which is what you proposed above.
Microsoft has lost its clout due to competition, and is no longer single
handedly able to bend hardware standards to its will. Intel as well has
lost some standards clout as evidenced by AMD creating x86-64 which
Intel adopted. And the rise of mobile devices has also eroded Intel's
clout WRT driving standards.
Last but not least, the adoption of desktop Linux en mass in Asian
markets on low power x86 chips such as VIA, and home grown RISC chips
such as the MIPS based Longsoon, has also eroded Intel's standards clout.
So again, we're in no danger of UEFI being forced upon us any time soon.
Which again means LILO will be a viable boot loader for quite some time
into the future.
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state angel
May 21, 2013, 8:50:01 AM5/21/13
to
>
> >> Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
> >
> > They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
> > some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
> > myself, choose to stick with LILO.
>
> Good luck in patching LILO to work without a BIOS.
>
There is ELILO in Debian. It is not in the installer, but I suppose they
> >> Another note, GRUB2 is more similar to Lilo than you think.
> >
> > They're both boot loaders. Of course they're similar. But they have
> > some serious differences. Serious enough that many folks, such as
> > myself, choose to stick with LILO.
>
> Good luck in patching LILO to work without a BIOS.
>
can switch to elilo or port it's UEFI code to lilo.
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Sven Joachim
May 21, 2013, 3:30:02 PM5/21/13
to
On 2013-05-21 04:03 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> On 5/20/2013 4:30 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
>
> Yes, that was my point. You'll probably never see UEFI on these
> platforms. So LILO could be used basically forever.
Hardly, because LILO depends on a BIOS. And it's written in x86
> On 5/20/2013 4:30 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
>
> Yes, that was my point. You'll probably never see UEFI on these
> platforms. So LILO could be used basically forever.
assembly, so not even buildable on these architectures.
As for UEFI - we'll see what the future holds.
Cheers,
Sven
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Stan Hoeppner
May 21, 2013, 6:40:02 PM5/21/13
to
On 5/21/2013 2:20 PM, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2013-05-21 04:03 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/20/2013 4:30 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>>> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
>>
>> Yes, that was my point. You'll probably never see UEFI on these
>> platforms. So LILO could be used basically forever.
>
> Hardly, because LILO depends on a BIOS. And it's written in x86
> assembly, so not even buildable on these architectures.
Note I made the point, before you, that MIPS and ARM are different
> On 2013-05-21 04:03 +0200, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>
>> On 5/20/2013 4:30 AM, Sven Joachim wrote:
>>> MIPS and ARM machines don't have a traditional BIOS either,
>>
>> Yes, that was my point. You'll probably never see UEFI on these
>> platforms. So LILO could be used basically forever.
>
> Hardly, because LILO depends on a BIOS. And it's written in x86
> assembly, so not even buildable on these architectures.
beasts. The point I was making above is that grub2 will never be
universal for all Linux platforms, thus there's no need for all distros
to use only grub2 for x86. And since there are no LILO/Linux
limitations on x86, "LILO could be used basically forever".
> As for UEFI - we'll see what the future holds.
future is more mobos with switchable UEFI/legacy BIOS support. Whether
UEFI will completely takeover is the question, and if so, when?
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