Mixing apt-get and aptitude
T o n g
I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
do so?
I read [1] that it is not a good idea.
Please comment.
thanks
[1] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/mixing-apt-*-and-
aptitude-nok-828408/
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Anticept .
> Hi,
>
> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
> do so?
>
> I read [1] that it is not a good idea.
> Please comment.
> thanks
>
> [1] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/mixing-apt-*-and-
> aptitude-nok-828408/
>
There is no reason that these two can't be mixed. Aptitude, however,
keeps track of packages in which you have marked, and will
automatically remove dependencies that are no longer needed. Check
"man aptitude" for more information.
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T o n g
>> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK
>> to do so?
>>
>> I read [1] that it is not a good idea. Please comment.
>> . . .
>>
> There is no reason that these two can't be mixed. Aptitude, however,
> keeps track of packages in which you have marked, and will automatically
> remove dependencies that are no longer needed. Check "man aptitude" for
> more information.
apt-get can keeps track of manual installed packages and dependencies one
as well. Check "man apt-get" for more information.
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Anticept .
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:16:44 -0400, Anticept . wrote:
>
>>> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK
>>> to do so?
>>>
>>> I read [1] that it is not a good idea. Please comment.
>>> . . .
>>>
>> There is no reason that these two can't be mixed. Aptitude, however,
>> keeps track of packages in which you have marked, and will automatically
>> remove dependencies that are no longer needed. Check "man aptitude" for
>> more information.
>
> apt-get can keeps track of manual installed packages and dependencies one
> as well. Check "man apt-get" for more information.
>
>
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across like that. There was a couple
sentences I removed which I had typed; what I meant to say is: I
believe there are a couple of other more subtle things that aptitude
does that apt-get can't do, check "man aptitude" for more information.
Again, sorry :(
-Anticept
P.S. Can apt-get hold back package updates like aptitude? This might
be one of them.
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T o n g
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:47:30 -0400, Anticept . wrote:
> Can apt-get hold back package updates like aptitude? This might be one
> of them.
Yes, it can, but it's done at the dpkg level.
To hold a Debian package not to be updated by apt-get
echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
Please note that such holding will not work for aptitude. So I agree with
you, this might be one of them.
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s. keeling
>
> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it
> OK to do so?
I've not read your link.
Joey Hess wrote a long critique in here a couple of years ago, saying
essentially yes. aptitude (I thimk) logs more of its actions than
does apt-get, but other than that, they're just wrappers that call
dpkg. I think. Read Joey's post, it's definitive.
> I read [1] that it is not a good idea.
>
> [1] http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/ubuntu-63/mixing-apt-*-and-aptitude-nok-828408/
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Aaron Toponce
> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
> do so?
Yes. However, aptitude is a much more powerful program. Check my blog
post on the many reasons to use aptitude over apt:
http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
Debian also mentions to use aptitude over apt:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html#s-aptitude
To answer your question directly though, both apt and aptitude rely on
dpkg for the installation and removal of packages. So, no worries.
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. . O . O O O . O . O O . . O
O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O
Osamu Aoki
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:13:26PM +0000, s. keeling wrote:
> T o n g <mlist4...@yahoo.com>:
> >
> > I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it
> > OK to do so?
>
> I've not read your link.
>
> Joey Hess wrote a long critique in here a couple of years ago, saying
> essentially yes. aptitude (I thimk) logs more of its actions than
> does apt-get, but other than that, they're just wrappers that call
> dpkg. I think. Read Joey's post, it's definitive.
Old information may not be valiad for new apt-get :-)
You may see change in release note:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411280
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Osamu Aoki
> First of all, sorry that I miss read your meaning.
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:47:30 -0400, Anticept . wrote:
>
> > Can apt-get hold back package updates like aptitude? This might be one
> > of them.
>
> Yes, it can, but it's done at the dpkg level.
>
> To hold a Debian package not to be updated by apt-get
>
> echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
>
> Please note that such holding will not work for aptitude. So I agree with
> you, this might be one of them.
This is how release note was updated.
aptitude with hold -> "dpkg --set-selections"
mixing will cause such minor headache. But I do not think it is as
major problem.
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Osamu Aoki
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:47:30 -0400, Anticept . wrote:
>
> > Can apt-get hold back package updates like aptitude? This might be one
> > of them.
>
> Yes, it can, but it's done at the dpkg level.
>
> To hold a Debian package not to be updated by apt-get
>
> echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
>
> Please note that such holding will not work for aptitude. So I agree with
> you, this might be one of them.
I just tested. It worked for me.
Osamu
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Osamu Aoki
> On 08/25/2010 01:09 PM, T o n g wrote:
> > I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
> > do so?
>
> Yes. However, aptitude is a much more powerful program. Check my blog
> post on the many reasons to use aptitude over apt:
>
> http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
>
> Debian also mentions to use aptitude over apt:
>
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html#s-aptitude
This needs update. This is very old.
> To answer your question directly though, both apt and aptitude rely on
> dpkg for the installation and removal of packages. So, no worries.
> --
> . O . O . O . . O O . . . O .
> . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O
> O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O
>
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Tom Browder
> On 08/25/2010 01:09 PM, T o n g wrote:
>> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
>> do so?
>
> Yes. However, aptitude is a much more powerful program. Check my blog
> post on the many reasons to use aptitude over apt:
>
> http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
Excellent! Thanks.
Aside, can you post another blog (or another thread here) about why
you use both Ubuntu and Debian?
I assume Debian for a stable server host and Ubuntu for a more
up-to-date desktop host, but I may be wrong.
Thanks.
-Tom
Niceville, FL
USA
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Aaron Toponce
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 06:23:56PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html#s-aptitude
>
> This needs update. This is very old.
Why is this old? What is out-of-date?
Aaron Toponce
> Aside, can you post another blog (or another thread here) about why
> you use both Ubuntu and Debian?
http://pthree.org/2009/02/19/server-migration-from-ubuntu-804-to-debian-50/
Long story short- Debian does a better job at package quality assurance
and bug fixing BEFORE release than Ubuntu, which does a great deal of it
afterwards. If you want a server, I would only trust Debian stable and
CentOS to power my data.
For the desktop, I see no reason why Debian GNU/Linux doesn't fit the
bill either. I have it installed on a workstation, two laptops, a
netbook and a virtual machine, all without any headache (there is an
annoyance with the netbook, actually, but minor).
The only reason I can see usuing Ubuntu is if you like the direction
they are taking with their operating system (UbuntuOne, MeMenu,
notifications, etc). In terms of hardware, I don't have any additional
problems getting Debian installed, with everything working out of the
box, than Ubuntu.
Tom Browder
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 08:51:29AM -0500, Tom Browder wrote:
>> Aside, can you post another blog (or another thread here) about why
>> you use both Ubuntu and Debian?
>
> http://pthree.org/2009/02/19/server-migration-from-ubuntu-804-to-debian-50/
Thanks, Aaron, case well stated!
-Tom
Tom Browder
Niceville, FL
USA
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ow...@netptc.net
>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: tom.b...@gmail.com
>To: aaron....@gmail.com
>Subject: Re: Mixing apt-get and aptitude
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:51:29 -0500
>
>>On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 19:23, Aaron Toponce
><aaron....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 08/25/2010 01:09 PM, T o n g wrote:
>>>> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is
>it OK to
>>>> do so?
>>>
>>> Yes. However, aptitude is a much more powerful program. Check my
>blog
>>> post on the many reasons to use aptitude over apt:
>>>
>>> http://pthree.org/2007/08/12/aptitude-vs-apt-get/
>>
>>Excellent! Thanks.
>>
>>you use both Ubuntu and Debian?
>>
>>up-to-date desktop host, but I may be wrong.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>-Tom
>>
>>Niceville, FL
>>USA
>>
teach C) (Lenny for the stagle server and Ubuntu 10.4 for the more
recent hardware such as laptops)
Larry
>>
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T o n g
> Old information may not be valiad for new apt-get :-)
>
> You may see change in release note:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411280
On reading above, I think it is time for me to do away with aptitude and
use back to my apt-get again, since I've been using aptitude's CLI
interface all the time. But one more question before I jump ahead,
I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages, mostly
aptitude. Do apt-get and aptitude keeps track of packages status (which
are manual installed and which are automatic dependencies) at the same
place or their have their own inventory. If latter, how would I build up
my aptitude dependencies info to apt-get?
Thanks
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T o n g
>> To hold a Debian package not to be updated by apt-get
>>
>> echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
>>
>> Please note that such holding will not work for aptitude. . .
>
> I just tested. It worked for me.
Please elaborate a bit more. What worked for you? Above dpkg hold, or
something else about aptitude?
Thanks
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s. keeling
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 11:13:26PM +0000, s. keeling wrote:
> > T o n g <mlist4...@yahoo.com>:
> > >
> > > I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it
> > > OK to do so?
> >
> > essentially yes. aptitude (I thimk) logs more of its actions than
>
>
> You may see change in release note:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411280
Um, "Old information?" Yours was from sarge --> etch! 2.6.8 kernel!
I've my own complaints about pkg managers (*everything* drags in
CUPS!), but I still think Joey understands this stuff better than we
ever will. Perhaps he'll deign to update his assessment of the
situation.
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Andrei Popescu
>
> I've my own complaints about pkg managers (*everything* drags in
> CUPS!)
Package managers are not responsible by the dependencies set by
individual packages.
Regards,
Andrei
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Anthony Campbell
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:21:02 +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
>
> > Old information may not be valiad for new apt-get :-)
> >
> > You may see change in release note:
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411280
>
> On reading above, I think it is time for me to do away with aptitude and
> use back to my apt-get again, since I've been using aptitude's CLI
> interface all the time.
Have a look at wajig, which makes it easy to use apt-get without having
to remember when to use dpkg, apt-get, or apt-cache. I did away with
aptitude several years ago when it it removed half my packages for its
own reasons. I've used wajig ever since.
Anthony
>
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Chris Bannister
> Hi,
>
> I used to use either apt-get or aptitude to install packages. Is it OK to
> do so?
>
> I read [1] that it is not a good idea.
> Please comment.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/07/maillist.html
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Osamu Aoki
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:30:30 +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
>
> >> To hold a Debian package not to be updated by apt-get
> >>
> >> echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
> >>
> >> Please note that such holding will not work for aptitude. . .
> >
> > I just tested. It worked for me.
>
> Please elaborate a bit more. What worked for you? Above dpkg hold, or
> something else about aptitude?
$ echo $package hold | dpkg --set-selections
This trick also properly altered both aptitide and apt-get.
As I checked and recall, lenny had this enabled.
(I rarely use apt-get so I had no reason to use dpkg. aptitude hold was
enough for me. It is nice to see things work together flawlessly
together.)
I just updated next debian-eference along this.
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_basic_package_management_operations_with_the_commandline
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#listofadvancedpagementoperations
Osamu
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Osamu Aoki
> On 26 Aug 2010, T o n g wrote:
> > On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:21:02 +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> >
> > > Old information may not be valiad for new apt-get :-)
> > >
> > > You may see change in release note:
> > > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=411280
> >
> > On reading above, I think it is time for me to do away with aptitude and
> > use back to my apt-get again, since I've been using aptitude's CLI
> > interface all the time.
>
> Have a look at wajig, which makes it easy to use apt-get without having
> to remember when to use dpkg, apt-get, or apt-cache. I did away with
> aptitude several years ago when it it removed half my packages for its
> own reasons. I've used wajig ever since.
Your negative reaction to aptitude is shared by some prominent DD.
This isuue of mass removal came from auto-install data. Now that
both apt-get and aptitude share the same data, this root cause has been
removed. You do not need to worry. (At least this is what I think
now.)
I do not know much about wajig since I hardly used it. It looks
interesing but this "simplicity" requires me to learn new things. Also
this is not new tool with really new functionality but just a wrapper.
Here is what people use:
Osamu
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Osamu Aoki
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:27:58PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 06:23:56PM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkgtools.en.html#s-aptitude
> >
> > This needs update. This is very old.
>
> Why is this old? What is out-of-date?
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594512
I just updates most gross errors in CVS so updated page will show up
soon.
Osamu
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Aaron Toponce
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594512
>
> I just updates most gross errors in CVS so updated page will show up
> soon.
Ah yes. The page should describe more of why aptitude vs apt-get, and
let the user decide.
T o n g
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594512
>
> I just updates most gross errors in CVS so updated page will show up
> soon.
Hi Osamu,
May I suggestion one minor amend to debian-reference?
About having N/A for 'aptitude why' with apt-get/apt-cache, how about at
least put 'apt-cache rdepends' there? That's what I've been using before
'aptitude why'.
my 2c.
thanks
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Osamu Aoki
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 05:13:52AM +0000, T o n g wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:52:48 +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
...
> May I suggestion one minor amend to debian-reference?
>
> About having N/A for 'aptitude why' with apt-get/apt-cache, how about at
> least put 'apt-cache rdepends' there? That's what I've been using before
> 'aptitude why'.
I understand. Thanks for your suggestion.
"apt-rdepends -r " does more but not exactly the same.
Question is do I add value to document by adding this here for novice.
Maybe no. I can not come up with good way to update all en fr it ja
documents with minimum damage. This provides related informatio but
this does not match text in description. (IMHO, suggesting people to use
apt-cache to do such task is counter productive. DR does not describe
everything by policy.)
I for now will not add this.
But if you find something which you think useful, please file a bug on
debian-reference with concrete suggestion. (Not just I want this
described but with exact replacement text.)
Thanks,
Osamu
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