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What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

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Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 8:00:02 AM5/29/14
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During installation of Debian 7.5, one is prompted to install either

linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64

or

linux-image-amd64

There is no context-sensitive help menu on that page.

Could someone tell me what the differences between those two are and which is the better of the two?

Darac Marjal

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May 29, 2014, 8:10:01 AM5/29/14
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"linux-image-amd64" is a metapackage which always depends on the latest
amd64 linux kernel. "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64" is actually an amd64
linux kernel.

If you install "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64", then you'll stay at that
version (modulo security updates) even when newer kernels are released.
If you install "linux-image-amd64" then your kernel will be updated as
per normal packages.
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Ralf Mardorf

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May 29, 2014, 8:10:02 AM5/29/14
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"dep: linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64" -
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-amd64

linux-image-amd64 is a meta-package, that installs
linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64.

If you install the meta-package, I guess an update of the meta-package
will replace linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64, if there should be a version
> linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64 available. If you install it without the
meta-package, you could install another version of the kernel beside
this one. I might be right or wrong, you could find out yourself by some
research on the Debian websites.

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianKernelABIChanges

Regards,
Ralf



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The Wanderer

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May 29, 2014, 9:00:03 AM5/29/14
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
To repeat what other people have said, with a bit more detail (which may
or may not be helpful):

linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64 installs version 3.2.0.4 of the Linux kernel,
compiled for the AMD64 architecture. If you install this package, your
package manager will automatically pull in updates to newer versions of
the 3.2.0.4 kernel, but will not pull in version 3.3 or newer when that
becomes available from the repositories.

linux-image-amd64 depends on whatever the latest-in-Debian AMD64 version
of the Linux kernel is. If you install this package from Debian stable,
you will currently get kernel 3.2.0.4, but when version 3.3 or newer
becomes available from the repositories your package manager will
automatically pull in that version instead.

(You will still have to manually tell your package manager to install
updates, of course, unless it offers some kind of "install updates
automatically on a schedule" configuration option. This just affects
which updates it will choose when you do that.)


Which one is better depends on what your needs are. Personally, unless I
need rock-solid no-chance-of-anything-breaking-ever stability and am
willing to accept the cost of no new kernel features and so forth, I
would always go with linux-image-amd64.

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Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 10:20:03 AM5/29/14
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From: Darac Marjal <maili...@darac.org.uk>
To: debia...@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

> "linux-image-amd64" is a metapackage which always depends on the latest amd64 linux kernel. "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64" is actually an
> amd64 linux kernel.

> If you install "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64", then you'll stay at that version (modulo security updates) even when newer kernels are released. If you > install "linux-image-amd64" then your kernel will be updated as per normal packages.

Thanks for the simple yet clear explanation.





Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 10:30:02 AM5/29/14
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From: The Wanderer <wand...@fastmail.fm>
To: Debian-user List <debia...@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:51 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?
> linux-image-amd64 depends on whatever the latest-in-Debian AMD64 version of the Linux kernel is. If you install this package from Debian stable,
> you will currently get kernel 3.2.0.4, but when version 3.3 or newer becomes available from the repositories your package manager will
> automatically pull in that version instead.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question at length.

How likely, do you think, is Debian to release version 3.3? Debian 7 has linux-image-3.2 since its official release. The next stable release, Debian 8, may happen in May 2015.

Andrei POPESCU

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May 29, 2014, 10:30:02 AM5/29/14
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On Jo, 29 mai 14, 13:02:57, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 04:49:59AM -0700, Horatio Leragon wrote:
> > During installation of Debian 7.5, one is prompted to install either
> > linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64
> > or
> > linux-image-amd64
> > There is no context-sensitive help menu on that page.
> > Could someone tell me what the differences between those two are and which
> > is the better of the two?
>
> "linux-image-amd64" is a metapackage which always depends on the latest
> amd64 linux kernel.

... for the given release (e.g. stable, backports, testing, etc.)

> "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64" is actually an amd64 linux kernel.
>
> If you install "linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64", then you'll stay at that
> version (modulo security updates) even when newer kernels are released.

It did happen that security upgrades had to bump the ABI, so if this
happens during the lifetime of wheezy one will be stuck with the old
version unless...

> If you install "linux-image-amd64" then your kernel will be updated as
> per normal packages.

Exactly.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Andrei POPESCU

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May 29, 2014, 10:40:01 AM5/29/14
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On Jo, 29 mai 14, 07:17:24, Horatio Leragon wrote:
>
> How likely, do you think, is Debian to release version 3.3?

Quite unlikely, but linux-image-3.2.0.5-amd64 could happen.
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The Wanderer

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May 29, 2014, 10:40:01 AM5/29/14
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 05/29/2014 10:17 AM, Horatio Leragon wrote:

[that on 2014-05-29 at 20:51, The Wanderer wrote:]

>> linux-image-amd64 depends on whatever the latest-in-Debian AMD64
>> version of the Linux kernel is. If you install this package from
>> Debian stable, you will currently get kernel 3.2.0.4, but when
>> version 3.3 or newer becomes available from the repositories your
>> package manager will automatically pull in that version instead.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer my question at length.
>
> How likely, do you think, is Debian to release version 3.3? Debian 7
> has linux-image-3.2 since its official release. The next stable
> release, Debian 8, may happen in May 2015.

Debian 7 is the current stable release, codenamed 'wheezy'. I don't
think it's very likely that wheezy will ever have a kernel more recent
than 3.2.x, except possibly through the separate and optional
wheezy-backports repository.

Debian 8 is the current testing "release", codenamed 'jessie'. Kernel
3.14.1 is already available in jessie, and newer kernels may very well
show up in testing before jessie enters a "freeze" state to prepare for
final release as the new stable. (The "freeze" is scheduled to happen
later this year; I think the last announcement I saw which mentioned a
date said it would be on November 5th.)

If your configuration is set up to receive packages from 'stable' rather
than specifically from 'wheezy', then when jessie is released as stable,
if you have linux-image-amd64 you will get the newer kernel from jessie.
If you have an explicit kernel-version package instead, you will stay
with that kernel version indefinitely.

There will probably be more options, involving 'oldstable' and LTS
release support and other repository fiddling, but that starts to get
more complicated to assess than I can easily cover in a brief summary.

- --
The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 11:00:03 AM5/29/14
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From: Andrei POPESCU <andreim...@gmail.com>
To: debia...@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:29 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

> Quite unlikely, but linux-image-3.2.0.5-amd64 could happen.

OMG, 3.2.0.5 is considered an upgrade over 3.2.0.4?

I was under the impression that 3.3 was considered to be an upgrade over 3.2......

Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 11:00:03 AM5/29/14
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From: Andrei POPESCU <andreim...@gmail.com>
To: debia...@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:27 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

>> "linux-image-amd64" is a metapackage which always depends on the latest  amd64 linux kernel.

> ... for the given release (e.g. stable, backports, testing, etc.)

You have confused me, Andrei.

What did you mean by "....for the given release"??


The Wanderer

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May 29, 2014, 11:10:02 AM5/29/14
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 05/29/2014 10:55 AM, Horatio Leragon wrote:

[that on 2014-05-29 at 22:29, Andrei POPESCU wrote:]

>> Quite unlikely, but linux-image-3.2.0.5-amd64 could happen.
>
> OMG, 3.2.0.5 is considered an upgrade over 3.2.0.4?
>
> I was under the impression that 3.3 was considered to be an upgrade
> over 3.2......

It is. 3.2.0-5 would be a very small upgrade over 3.2.0-4, and 3.3 would
be a bigger one. However, 3.3 would also be a riskier upgrade, with more
chance of something being broken; that's why they don't provide it for
the "stable" release.

- --
The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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The Wanderer

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May 29, 2014, 11:10:02 AM5/29/14
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 05/29/2014 10:53 AM, Horatio Leragon wrote:

[that on 2014-05-29 at 22:29, Andrei POPESCU wrote:]

>>> "linux-image-amd64" is a metapackage which always depends on the
>>> latest amd64 linux kernel.
>
>> ... for the given release (e.g. stable, backports, testing, etc.)
>
> You have confused me, Andrei.
>
> What did you mean by "....for the given release"??

In Debian, packages are available from repositories.

The official Debian repositories are each named after a Debian release
(by codename, not by number). Each release repository contains packages
designed and tested, to some limited degree, to work together for that
release. Different versions of the same package can exist in different
repositories at the same time.

The current "stable" release is codenamed "wheezy". The version of
linux-image-amd64 in the "wheezy" repository depends on the latest amd64
Linux kernel in the "wheezy" repository: 3.2.0-4.

The current "testing" release is codenamed "jessie". The version of
linux-image-amd64 in the "jessie" repository depends on the latest amd64
Linux kernel in the "jessie" repository: 3.14-1.

There are other repositories: stable-backports, oldstable, unstable, and
so forth. Most of them contain a version of linux-image-amd64. In each
one, the version of linux-image-amd64 will depend on the latest amd64
Linux kernel in that repository, which may not be the same as the latest
one in any other repository.

- --
The Wanderer

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.
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Lisi Reisz

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May 29, 2014, 11:30:02 AM5/29/14
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On Thursday 29 May 2014 16:07:04 The Wanderer wrote:
> The official Debian repositories are each named after a Debian release
> (by codename, not by number).

Not only by release name, but also by generic name. Hence the repositories
for Wheezy are either Wheezy or Stable, but never 7.x.

Lisi


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Andrei POPESCU

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May 29, 2014, 11:50:02 AM5/29/14
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On Jo, 29 mai 14, 07:55:50, Horatio Leragon wrote:
>
> > Quite unlikely, but linux-image-3.2.0.5-amd64 could happen.
>
> OMG, 3.2.0.5 is considered an upgrade over 3.2.0.4?

Not quite an upgrade, but a significant (usually security) change.
Significant enough to force an ABI break. That is, if you have to
compile some modules for the kernel you must recompile them.

Don't forget we are talking about stable. Even small changes are not
introduced unless they fix severe bugs (mostly only for security
reasons, but also other severe bugs). This is *by design*.

If you really need newer versions of specific software there is the
backports repository (which you already know) otherwise you might have
to upgrade to the testing or unstable releases.

I'd suggest you don't try upgrading to another release until you have
familiarised yourself with Debian (especially the package management
part).
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Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 12:10:03 PM5/29/14
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From: The Wanderer <wand...@fastmail.fm>
To: "debia...@lists.debian.org" <debia...@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:07 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

Thanks, Wanderer, for your detailed explanation :)

Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 12:20:02 PM5/29/14
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From: Andrei POPESCU <andreim...@gmail.com>
To: debia...@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:47 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?
> I'd suggest you don't try upgrading to another release until you have familiarised yourself with Debian (especially the package management
> part).

Thanks for your clarification.

Horatio Leragon

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May 29, 2014, 12:20:02 PM5/29/14
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From: The Wanderer <wand...@fastmail.fm>
To: "debia...@lists.debian.org" <debia...@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:07 PM

Subject: Re: What is the difference between linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64?

> It is. 3.2.0-5 would be a very small upgrade over 3.2.0-4, and 3.3 would be a bigger one. However, 3.3 would also be a riskier upgrade, with more
> chance of something being broken; that's why they don't provide it for the "stable" release.

Thanks for the clarification.

Tom H

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May 29, 2014, 12:20:04 PM5/29/14
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On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 8:51 AM, The Wanderer <wand...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On 05/29/2014 07:49 AM, Horatio Leragon wrote:
>>
>> During installation of Debian 7.5, one is prompted to install either
>>
>> linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64
>> or
>> linux-image-amd64
>>
>> There is no context-sensitive help menu on that page.
>>
>> Could someone tell me what the differences between those two are and
>> which is the better of the two?
>
> To repeat what other people have said, with a bit more detail (which may
> or may not be helpful):
>
> linux-image-3.2.0.4-amd64 installs version 3.2.0.4 of the Linux kernel,
> compiled for the AMD64 architecture. If you install this package, your
> package manager will automatically pull in updates to newer versions of
> the 3.2.0.4 kernel, but will not pull in version 3.3 or newer when that
> becomes available from the repositories.
>
> linux-image-amd64 depends on whatever the latest-in-Debian AMD64 version
> of the Linux kernel is. If you install this package from Debian stable,
> you will currently get kernel 3.2.0.4, but when version 3.3 or newer
> becomes available from the repositories your package manager will
> automatically pull in that version instead.

The upgrade to 3.3 (or 3.x) would take place on Debian testing or
unstable. For Debian stable, you'd stay on 3.2, unless you have
stable-backports enabled.

If you have stable-backports enabled, linux-image-amd64 will pull in
3.14 (at the moment) but, given that the stable-backports archive is
set to "NotAutomatic: yes" and "ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes" by default,
you'd first have to install the stable-backports version of
linux-image-amd64 for the dependency to take effect.


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Chris Bannister

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May 31, 2014, 8:10:01 AM5/31/14
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On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 07:55:50AM -0700, Horatio Leragon wrote:
> > Quite unlikely, but linux-image-3.2.0.5-amd64 could happen.
>
> OMG, 3.2.0.5 is considered an upgrade over 3.2.0.4?

5 is bigger than 4, so yes a higher version means it has been upgraded

> I was under the impression that 3.3 was considered to be an upgrade over 3.2......

Perhaps you should research version numbers, major upgrades, and minor
upgrades.

--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


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