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Installing a MINIMAL Mate Desktop How?
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Richard Owlett
Sep 11, 2016, 7:50:04 AM9/11/16
to
When Squeeze was the latest I was able to install without any
desktop.
I would then do
apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add
what *I* needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody"
should have ;)
According to http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download#debian I
should be able to do
apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core
That is not enough, it leaves me with only a command line.
I have the full Mate desktop on one machine. Using Synaptic on
that machine and using apt-get install **** on the other I was
able too identify some missing pieces.
"apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
As I have minimal bandwidth available I am installing from
purchased DVD's - currently version 8.0.0 . After the point
release later this month I will obtain the latest.
Has anyone successfully done such a minimal install as I am
attempting?
TIA
desktop.
I would then do
apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add
what *I* needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody"
should have ;)
According to http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download#debian I
should be able to do
apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core
That is not enough, it leaves me with only a command line.
I have the full Mate desktop on one machine. Using Synaptic on
that machine and using apt-get install **** on the other I was
able too identify some missing pieces.
"apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
As I have minimal bandwidth available I am installing from
purchased DVD's - currently version 8.0.0 . After the point
release later this month I will obtain the latest.
Has anyone successfully done such a minimal install as I am
attempting?
TIA
mo
Sep 11, 2016, 8:30:03 AM9/11/16
to
Hi Richard
I for one always make a minimal install, which means i only install the
base. (You can select that in tasksel during the installation)
From there on i build the system so to speak myself. Installing xorg
and the needed video driver, the core package for my DE of choice (which
currently is gnome) and then i install my display manager of choice (i
use gdm atm).
After that you either start gdm yourself by doing:
# systemctl enable gdm && systemctl start gdm
or you simply do a reboot... then you should be presented with your
display manager of choice and you can login to your DE.
About your problem with having to less applications installed with the
core mate package:
Have a look at the mate-desktop-environment meta package:
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/mate-desktop-environment
There you can see which applications get pulled in, you can select them
yourself and then you can install the mate-desktop-environment-core
package and add the software you need.
I hope this helps you
Best regards
mo
I for one always make a minimal install, which means i only install the
base. (You can select that in tasksel during the installation)
From there on i build the system so to speak myself. Installing xorg
and the needed video driver, the core package for my DE of choice (which
currently is gnome) and then i install my display manager of choice (i
use gdm atm).
After that you either start gdm yourself by doing:
# systemctl enable gdm && systemctl start gdm
or you simply do a reboot... then you should be presented with your
display manager of choice and you can login to your DE.
About your problem with having to less applications installed with the
core mate package:
Have a look at the mate-desktop-environment meta package:
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/mate-desktop-environment
There you can see which applications get pulled in, you can select them
yourself and then you can install the mate-desktop-environment-core
package and add the software you need.
I hope this helps you
Best regards
mo
Brian
Sep 11, 2016, 10:20:04 AM9/11/16
to
On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 06:47:23 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> When Squeeze was the latest I was able to install without any desktop.
> I would then do
> apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
> The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add what *I*
> needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody" should have ;)
gnome-session pulls in xserver-org-video-all and installs it on the
> When Squeeze was the latest I was able to install without any desktop.
> I would then do
> apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
> The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add what *I*
> needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody" should have ;)
*same* machine. Graphical programs like gnome-terminal and gedit run on
the *same* machine as the X server runs on and will display an output
there. This is a very common situation but it does not have to be like
that.
An X server runs and produces an output on the machine you are sitting
in front of. Programs like gedit could be on a *different* machine. This
is just as valid a setup as the "common" one. It implies that such
things as, for example, window manager packages do not depend on an X
server being installed.
> According to http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download#debian I should be able
> to do
> apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core
>
> That is not enough, it leaves me with only a command line.
on that machine or another one if you want other than the command line.
> I have the full Mate desktop on one machine. Using Synaptic on that machine
> and using apt-get install **** on the other I was able too identify some
> missing pieces.
>
> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install marco,
> xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic procedure was to install
> each of them in the order listed with a reboot in between to see if
> everything worked. It did not. After installing each of the 1st three I was
> left at the command line. After installing lightdm I was presented with a
> blank screen.
seriously wrong if it was not installed.
xorg isn't required to be on the same machine as mate; that is why it
was not installed. mate-terminal does the same job as xterm. The mate
maintainers might have decided not have a DM as a depended on or
recommended package.
--
Brian.
Richard Owlett
Sep 11, 2016, 11:10:05 AM9/11/16
to
On 9/11/2016 9:14 AM, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 06:47:23 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> When Squeeze was the latest I was able to install without any desktop.
>> I would then do
>> apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
>> The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add what *I*
>> needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody" should have ;)
>
> gnome-session pulls in xserver-org-video-all and installs it on the
> *same* machine. Graphical programs like gnome-terminal and gedit run on
> the *same* machine as the X server runs on and will display an output
> there. This is a very common situation but it does not have to be like
> that.
>
> An X server runs and produces an output on the machine you are sitting
> in front of. Programs like gedit could be on a *different* machine. This
> is just as valid a setup as the "common" one. It implies that such
> things as, for example, window manager packages do not depend on an X
> server being installed.
I think I follow the point you are trying to make.
> On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 06:47:23 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>
>> When Squeeze was the latest I was able to install without any desktop.
>> I would then do
>> apt-get install gnome-session gdm3 gedit gnome-terminal gparted
>> The result was a nice uncluttered desktop to which I could add what *I*
>> needed rather than what the proverbial "everybody" should have ;)
>
> gnome-session pulls in xserver-org-video-all and installs it on the
> *same* machine. Graphical programs like gnome-terminal and gedit run on
> the *same* machine as the X server runs on and will display an output
> there. This is a very common situation but it does not have to be like
> that.
>
> An X server runs and produces an output on the machine you are sitting
> in front of. Programs like gedit could be on a *different* machine. This
> is just as valid a setup as the "common" one. It implies that such
> things as, for example, window manager packages do not depend on an X
> server being installed.
Just to be clear, everything *I* do is on a standalone machine [a
laptop].
>
>> According to http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download#debian I should be able
>> to do
>> apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core
>>
>> That is not enough, it leaves me with only a command line.
>
> You got what was promised - a minimal mate install. You need an X server
> on that machine or another one if you want other than the command line.
definition/perspective. A few years ago I thinking about a
possible Debian Pure Blend aimed at the bandwidth challenged - at
the time I was on dialup. Someone suggested "Desert Island
Swirl" as a working title. That would fit my perspective on how
an installer should interact with a user. The user could be
described as one person, with one computer and one stack of DVD's.
>
>> I have the full Mate desktop on one machine. Using Synaptic on that machine
>> and using apt-get install **** on the other I was able too identify some
>> missing pieces.
>>
>> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install marco,
>> xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic procedure was to install
>> each of them in the order listed with a reboot in between to see if
>> everything worked. It did not. After installing each of the 1st three I was
>> left at the command line. After installing lightdm I was presented with a
>> blank screen.
>
> mate-desktop-environment-core depends on marco. There is something
> seriously wrong if it was not installed.
such in the packages file for the DVD I installed from.
>
> xorg isn't required to be on the same machine as mate; that is why it
> was not installed. mate-terminal does the same job as xterm. The mate
> maintainers might have decided not have a DM as a depended on or
> recommended package.
>
xorg, xterm, mate-terminal, mate-panel, mate-session-manager and
lightdm.
I now have a workable, if ugly *MINIMAL* install. !!!! ;)
Now to find some decorative elements and chose the applications I
want.
Richard Owlett
Sep 11, 2016, 12:40:04 PM9/11/16
to
On 9/11/2016 10:04 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 9/11/2016 9:14 AM, Brian wrote:
>> [snip]
> On 9/11/2016 9:14 AM, Brian wrote:
>>> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not
>>> install marco,
>>> xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic procedure
>>> was to install
>>> each of them in the order listed with a reboot in between to
>>> see if
>>> everything worked. It did not. After installing each of the
>>> 1st three I was
>>> left at the command line. After installing lightdm I was
>>> presented with a
>>> blank screen.
>>
>> mate-desktop-environment-core depends on marco. There is something
>> seriously wrong if it was not installed.
>
> Huumm I see another test install in my future as it is listed as
> such in the packages file for the DVD I installed from.
Something is definitely *FLAKY* at least.
>>> install marco,
>>> xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic procedure
>>> was to install
>>> each of them in the order listed with a reboot in between to
>>> see if
>>> everything worked. It did not. After installing each of the
>>> 1st three I was
>>> left at the command line. After installing lightdm I was
>>> presented with a
>>> blank screen.
>>
>> mate-desktop-environment-core depends on marco. There is something
>> seriously wrong if it was not installed.
>
> Huumm I see another test install in my future as it is listed as
> such in the packages file for the DVD I installed from.
I just did another test install on another partition.
This time I only had to install xorg, xterm, and lightdm after
installing mate-desktop-environment-core.
This time it even has the same visual appearance as the full Mate
install on the same machine.
As Debian 8.6 is due soon, I'll wait until then and copy the
DVD's to a flash drive and do an install from them. In the
meantime I'll create an appropriate preseed.cfg to aid repeatably
to my trials.
Curt
Sep 11, 2016, 12:50:04 PM9/11/16
to
On 2016-09-11, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
>
> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
> marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
> procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
> reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
> installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
> After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
Well installing xorg without a display manager (lightdm in your case)
>
> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
> marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
> procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
> reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
> installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
> After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
would take you to the console, from where you'd have to issue a "startx"
to get into the graphical environment I do believe. Rebooting each time
seems like a waste of time, unless you can explain what magical spell
that is supposed to cast upon the whole affair.
After installing lightdm you get a blank screen, so you're making
progress (perhaps a graphic card/driver issue lurking in there
somewhere).
> As I have minimal bandwidth available I am installing from
> purchased DVD's - currently version 8.0.0 . After the point
> release later this month I will obtain the latest.
>
> Has anyone successfully done such a minimal install as I am
> attempting?
> TIA
>
>
>
“Whatever is rejected from the self, appears in the world as an event.”
C.G. Jung
Richard Owlett
Sep 11, 2016, 1:00:03 PM9/11/16
to
On 9/11/2016 11:46 AM, Curt wrote:
> On 2016-09-11, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>
>> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
>> marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
>> procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
>> reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
>> installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
>> After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
>
> Well installing xorg without a display manager (lightdm in your case)
> would take you to the console, from where you'd have to issue a "startx"
> to get into the graphical environment I do believe. Rebooting each time
> seems like a waste of time, unless you can explain what magical spell
> that is supposed to cast upon the whole affair.
Only as a reproducible test to see if I had installed all the
> On 2016-09-11, Richard Owlett <row...@cloud85.net> wrote:
>>
>> "apt-get install mate-desktop-environment-core" does not install
>> marco, xorg, xterm, nor lightdm. My brute force diagnostic
>> procedure was to install each of them in the order listed with a
>> reboot in between to see if everything worked. It did not. After
>> installing each of the 1st three I was left at the command line.
>> After installing lightdm I was presented with a blank screen.
>
> Well installing xorg without a display manager (lightdm in your case)
> would take you to the console, from where you'd have to issue a "startx"
> to get into the graphical environment I do believe. Rebooting each time
> seems like a waste of time, unless you can explain what magical spell
> that is supposed to cast upon the whole affair.
right pieces ;)
>
> After installing lightdm you get a blank screen, so you're making
> progress (perhaps a graphic card/driver issue lurking in there
> somewhere).
Futher experiments await purchasing DVD's of the upcoming point
release.
Brian
Sep 11, 2016, 2:00:04 PM9/11/16
to
On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 10:04:06 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> While waiting for response(s) to my my post I installed marco, xorg, xterm,
> mate-terminal, mate-panel, mate-session-manager and lightdm.
>
> I now have a workable, if ugly *MINIMAL* install. !!!! ;)
> Now to find some decorative elements and chose the applications I want.
The meaning of "minimal" is very difficult to define as it very much
> While waiting for response(s) to my my post I installed marco, xorg, xterm,
> mate-terminal, mate-panel, mate-session-manager and lightdm.
>
> I now have a workable, if ugly *MINIMAL* install. !!!! ;)
> Now to find some decorative elements and chose the applications I want.
depends on the purpose of the install, what functionality is required,
how it is to be used now and in the future and who it is to be used by.
If I were doing what you are doing I wouldn't install xorg because it
would take some 213 MB of space on this machine without the recommended
packages. Instead (without recommended packages) I'd have xserver-org,
xserver-org-input-evdev and xserver-xorg-video-nouveau for 15 MB of disk
space. I doubt much (if anything) is lost by taking that route to X.
Adding xterm to my basic X install is 3 MB of space extra. mate-terminal
is 105 MB, so it is no contest if space taken is a major criterion. You
could see less ugliness in mate-terminal so there is little point in
arguing about what is minimal.
lightdm looks nice and only adds an extra 2 MB. nodm adds hardly
anything. Is a fancy DM necessary?
I'd use mc instead of marco but wouldn't give it to a user who expects
clickety-click things and automounting.
Do you see what I am getting at? It could be said that minimal (like
beauty) is in the eye of the beholder.
--
Brian.
Richard Owlett
Sep 19, 2016, 9:20:12 AM9/19/16
to
only so many hours.
My definition of "minimal" focuses more on what is seen by user
rather than optimizing for minimum footprint [RAM or disk]. I've
some sketchy ideas for the later but other projects have priority.
My current preseed.cfg contains:
### Package selection
tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard
# was tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, laptop
# Individual additional packages to install
d-i pkgsel/include string mate-desktop-environment-core xorg
xterm lightdm pluma synaptic gparted
This gives me a framework to install just the programs I'll
actually use rather than what some committee thinks "everybody"
wants ;/
Brian
Sep 19, 2016, 10:20:04 AM9/19/16
to
valid than another way.
> My current preseed.cfg contains:
>
> ### Package selection
> tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard
> # was tasksel tasksel/first multiselect standard, laptop
>
> # Individual additional packages to install
> d-i pkgsel/include string mate-desktop-environment-core xorg xterm lightdm
> pluma synaptic gparted
you could ignore. xorg is a better option if this preseed.cfg is to be
used on a variety of machines.
> This gives me a framework to install just the programs I'll actually use
> rather than what some committee thinks "everybody" wants ;/
at.
--
Brian.
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