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text size xfce4 panel
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mick crane
Jul 6, 2021, 5:10:04 AM7/6/21
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hello,
recently got 4K monitor, I struggle to read the tiny text in bullseye
xfce4 desktop.
I see how to increase size of desktop items but the panel text and pop
up menu text are tiny.
Also the tabs in brave browser and browser menu settings.
I have looked but unable to find where to change those text sizes.
mick
--
Key ID 4BFEBB31
recently got 4K monitor, I struggle to read the tiny text in bullseye
xfce4 desktop.
I see how to increase size of desktop items but the panel text and pop
up menu text are tiny.
Also the tabs in brave browser and browser menu settings.
I have looked but unable to find where to change those text sizes.
mick
--
Key ID 4BFEBB31
Dan Ritter
Jul 6, 2021, 7:20:06 AM7/6/21
to
-dsr-
Andrei POPESCU
Jul 6, 2021, 7:50:05 AM7/6/21
to
On Ma, 06 iul 21, 12:36:31, mick crane wrote:
> Would that not also change the resolution for any image software ?
Short answer: no, though you might need to (partially) undo some of the
other tweaks you already did.
The long answer is *very* long.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Short answer: no, though you might need to (partially) undo some of the
other tweaks you already did.
The long answer is *very* long.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Andrei POPESCU
Jul 7, 2021, 8:40:04 PM7/7/21
to
On Ma, 06 iul 21, 13:05:26, mick crane wrote:
> I would like to read the long answer if you have the time and inclination.
I'm guessing your question above is due to an assumption that DPI in
refers strictly to the actual dots per inch of your display device, so
until we have resizeable monitors[1] the only way to adjust the real DPI
is by adjusting the resolution (please do correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm not familiar with the entire historical background here, but
basically the mess we have today is due to a combination of:
1. No or (later) unreliable methods of getting the real DPI
2. GUI / website designers specifying sizes in pixels
(hey, text interfaces were specified in characters, so it must be
fine for graphical interfaces as well, right?)
3. Various software assuming and/or hardcoding the DPI value
(96 DPI ought to be enough for anyone)
The problems weren't major as long as screen sizes increased in parallel
with resolutions and with CRT monitors one could just run them at a
lower resolution.
However, there are some practical limits to monitor sizes, and the real
DPI has a noticeable impact on image quality. Add to this that LCDs look
really bad if used at resolutions that don't match nicely to their real
dots[1].
Modern display devices do have the means to inform the OS of their size
and resolution (EDID), but these are sometimes buggy or just lie
(sometimes with good reason, like TVs).
So in addition to the real DPI we also have the X DPI setting (still
hardcoded to 96 x 96, regardless of the EDID values) and the Xft DPI
(which is for fonts, but not all of them).
Not sure which of these (if any) the Xfce setting will actually change,
but it should affect at least Xfce applications, but not necessarily
applications using other toolkits (QT), or the elements in Firefox that
aren't using GTK.
(did I already mention it's a mess?)
So what should you set the DPI value to?
For one monitor sitting somewhere around an arm's length away from you
the real DPI is probably a good start, but this is definitely personal
preference territory and some tweaking might be necessary regardless.
With the correct DPI value set a 10 pt font should be the same size on
screen as on paper, so this has some practical value.
This [2] article describes several methods of setting X and Xft DPI and
appears to be reasonably up to date. My personal preference is to
specify the size of the display device from the EDID (i.e. what X would
be using if it actually cared about it).
Some applications might still give you troubles. Firefox is a common
offender, because it has some additional internal settings.
Things get more complicated if you start considering multi monitor
setups (with different sizes and/or resolutions), as well as other types
of devices, because there is no way that I'm aware of to specify the
third dimension: viewing distance.
So if you want to use a TV as a monitor from 2+ meters away you might
want to use a higher than real DPI setting[3]. Some TVs even
intentionally provide wrong dimensions via EDID to achieve the same
effect.
[1] e.g. like 1920 x 1080 (a.k.a. 2K) on a 4K (3840 x 2160) monitor.
[2] https://linuxreviews.org/HOWTO_set_DPI_in_Xorg
[3] e.g. 240 x 135 mm works for me for a 40" 1080p TV (i.e. 203 DPI)
Hope this provides at least some idea on the topic, because it likely
doesn't really explain much.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
I'm guessing your question above is due to an assumption that DPI in
refers strictly to the actual dots per inch of your display device, so
until we have resizeable monitors[1] the only way to adjust the real DPI
is by adjusting the resolution (please do correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm not familiar with the entire historical background here, but
basically the mess we have today is due to a combination of:
1. No or (later) unreliable methods of getting the real DPI
2. GUI / website designers specifying sizes in pixels
(hey, text interfaces were specified in characters, so it must be
fine for graphical interfaces as well, right?)
3. Various software assuming and/or hardcoding the DPI value
(96 DPI ought to be enough for anyone)
The problems weren't major as long as screen sizes increased in parallel
with resolutions and with CRT monitors one could just run them at a
lower resolution.
However, there are some practical limits to monitor sizes, and the real
DPI has a noticeable impact on image quality. Add to this that LCDs look
really bad if used at resolutions that don't match nicely to their real
dots[1].
Modern display devices do have the means to inform the OS of their size
and resolution (EDID), but these are sometimes buggy or just lie
(sometimes with good reason, like TVs).
So in addition to the real DPI we also have the X DPI setting (still
hardcoded to 96 x 96, regardless of the EDID values) and the Xft DPI
(which is for fonts, but not all of them).
Not sure which of these (if any) the Xfce setting will actually change,
but it should affect at least Xfce applications, but not necessarily
applications using other toolkits (QT), or the elements in Firefox that
aren't using GTK.
(did I already mention it's a mess?)
So what should you set the DPI value to?
For one monitor sitting somewhere around an arm's length away from you
the real DPI is probably a good start, but this is definitely personal
preference territory and some tweaking might be necessary regardless.
With the correct DPI value set a 10 pt font should be the same size on
screen as on paper, so this has some practical value.
This [2] article describes several methods of setting X and Xft DPI and
appears to be reasonably up to date. My personal preference is to
specify the size of the display device from the EDID (i.e. what X would
be using if it actually cared about it).
Some applications might still give you troubles. Firefox is a common
offender, because it has some additional internal settings.
Things get more complicated if you start considering multi monitor
setups (with different sizes and/or resolutions), as well as other types
of devices, because there is no way that I'm aware of to specify the
third dimension: viewing distance.
So if you want to use a TV as a monitor from 2+ meters away you might
want to use a higher than real DPI setting[3]. Some TVs even
intentionally provide wrong dimensions via EDID to achieve the same
effect.
[1] e.g. like 1920 x 1080 (a.k.a. 2K) on a 4K (3840 x 2160) monitor.
[2] https://linuxreviews.org/HOWTO_set_DPI_in_Xorg
[3] e.g. 240 x 135 mm works for me for a 40" 1080p TV (i.e. 203 DPI)
Hope this provides at least some idea on the topic, because it likely
doesn't really explain much.
Kind regards,
Andrei
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
(Albert Einstein)
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Andrei POPESCU
Jul 8, 2021, 9:50:04 AM7/8/21
to
On Jo, 08 iul 21, 12:06:31, mick crane wrote:
> On 2021-07-08 01:33, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> <snipped useful information>
> understand.
The most frustrating part is that it's unclear which knobs are connected
and which aren't, and all the major projects involved (X.org, Gnome/GTK,
Qt, Mozilla, etc.) insist on doing their own thing instead of agreeing
to a common approach.
Maybe Wayland can fix some of this, though the way the transition is
being handled is so far less than impressive.
> at the minute most things are readable except for the address bar in Brave
> browser.
> and for some reason the pop up windows/drop down menus sometimes are OK and
> sometimes the same window is too small for all the same text.
Brave is not even in Debian, so...
> On 2021-07-08 01:33, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> <snipped useful information>
> >
> > Hope this provides at least some idea on the topic, because it likely
> > doesn't really explain much.
> >
> Thanks, it seems like a minefield and not the easiest of things to
> > Hope this provides at least some idea on the topic, because it likely
> > doesn't really explain much.
> >
> understand.
The most frustrating part is that it's unclear which knobs are connected
and which aren't, and all the major projects involved (X.org, Gnome/GTK,
Qt, Mozilla, etc.) insist on doing their own thing instead of agreeing
to a common approach.
Maybe Wayland can fix some of this, though the way the transition is
being handled is so far less than impressive.
> at the minute most things are readable except for the address bar in Brave
> browser.
> and for some reason the pop up windows/drop down menus sometimes are OK and
> sometimes the same window is too small for all the same text.
Brave is not even in Debian, so...
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