How to know if DVI connection is digital or analogue?
Dotan Cohen
adaptors work). I have a user who fought with his Windows drivers to
force digital connection, even though he was connecting with the DVI
ports over a DVI cable it was sending analogue until he configured it
properly. Not that he is running a Debian derivative, how can he check
which connection (digital or analogue) is being used?
Notice that he can't actually _see_ and difference on the screen :)
But it is important to him to know that it is in fact digital.
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Camaleón
> DVI supports both digital and analgue connections (that's how VGA
> adaptors work).
That's DVI-I, I guess.
> I have a user who fought with his Windows drivers to
> force digital connection, even though he was connecting with the DVI
> ports over a DVI cable it was sending analogue until he configured it
> properly. Not that he is running a Debian derivative, how can he check
> which connection (digital or analogue) is being used?
Tell the user to use a DVI-D to DVI-D (only digital) cable :-)
> Notice that he can't actually _see_ and difference on the screen :) But
> it is important to him to know that it is in fact digital.
Visual difference can arise, but I think it depends on displays and
graphic cards brand/model/quality.
Using VGA signal, usually the text renders a bit more fuzzy that using a
digital link (cristal clear strokes).
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Dotan Cohen
>
He is using the cable that came with the monitor.
Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
digital.
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Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
> Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
> whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
> digital.
I might be saying complete bullshit, but do DVI cables carry tha
analog signal? It's true the connectors in VGA boards have both
signals, but shouldn't a standard DVI cable only transmit the digital
signal and ignore the analog part, which is used only when a DVI->VGA
adaptor is used?
Moreover, even if the cable transmits the analog signal, if it's
plugged at the DVI input of the monitor, I believe the monitor will
take digital signal from there. Even if there is also analog signal in
the cable, it should be ignored in the DVI input.
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Jordan Metzmeier
<edu...@kalinowski.com.br> wrote:
> On Seg, 08 Mar 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>>
>> Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
>> whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
>> digital.
>
> I might be saying complete bullshit, but do DVI cables carry tha analog
> signal? It's true the connectors in VGA boards have both signals, but
> shouldn't a standard DVI cable only transmit the digital signal and ignore
> the analog part, which is used only when a DVI->VGA adaptor is used?
>
> Moreover, even if the cable transmits the analog signal, if it's plugged at
> the DVI input of the monitor, I believe the monitor will take digital signal
> from there. Even if there is also analog signal in the cable, it should be
> ignored in the DVI input.
>
DVI-I cables carry both digital and analogue signal. DVI-D carries
digital only. This is especially useful when you run into a situation
where a video card only has DVI connectors but a monitor only accepts
VGA. A converter can easily be used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
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Camaleón
>> Tell the user to use a DVI-D to DVI-D (only digital) cable :-)
>>
>>
> He is using the cable that came with the monitor.
Can't he get a new one? Or at least, can't he determine what type of
cable is it? DVI-I, DVI-D... I find that a hardware solution is the most
appropiate (an easiest) method to be sure :-?
> Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
> whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
> digital.
If video source -display- is digital (extreme "A" of the cable is
connected to a DVI-x output) and input source -graphic card- (extreme "B"
of the cable is connecetd to a DVI-x input) then he can only get a
digital signal.
What are the involved elements here, that is, graphic card and display
brand/model?
As per your original question, no, I don't know any software or method to
analyze or test the video input signal being digital or analogic :-?
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Odd
>> Tell the user to use a DVI-D to DVI-D (only digital) cable :-)
>>
>
> He is using the cable that came with the monitor.
>
> Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
> whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
> digital.
Check this pic:
http://www.playtool.com/pages/dvicompat/sldldvi.jpg
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Dotan Cohen
I had no idea it was such a mess! Three different types of DVI?!? One
for D, one for V, one for I?!?
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Dotan Cohen
> On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 15:47:07 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
>>> Tell the user to use a DVI-D to DVI-D (only digital) cable :-)
>>>
>>>
>> He is using the cable that came with the monitor.
>
> Can't he get a new one? Or at least, can't he determine what type of
> cable is it? DVI-I, DVI-D... I find that a hardware solution is the most
> appropiate (an easiest) method to be sure :-?
>
Why get a new cable? His current cable works fine. He just wants to
know whether the video is analogue or digital, because in Windows on
the same hardware he had to especially configure it to send digital.
>> Is there no way to tell which type of connection is being used? For
>> whatever reason, it is important to him to know that the connection is
>> digital.
>
> If video source -display- is digital (extreme "A" of the cable is
> connected to a DVI-x output) and input source -graphic card- (extreme "B"
> of the cable is connecetd to a DVI-x input) then he can only get a
> digital signal.
>
In theory, he _should_ get digital like that. In practice, without
fiddling, in Windows it was sending analogue.
> What are the involved elements here, that is, graphic card and display
> brand/model?
>
Some ATI onboard graphics, I don't know what brand the motherboard was
(it's not here with me now). The FOSS drivers work fine on it, even
for KDE composting. The monitor was a MAC LCD, I think around 22" or
so.
> As per your original question, no, I don't know any software or method to
> analyze or test the video input signal being digital or analogic :-?
>
Well, we tried! Thanks.
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Dotan Cohen
> signal? It's true the connectors in VGA boards have both signals, but
> shouldn't a standard DVI cable only transmit the digital signal and ignore
> the analog part, which is used only when a DVI->VGA adaptor is used?
>
> Moreover, even if the cable transmits the analog signal, if it's plugged at
> the DVI input of the monitor, I believe the monitor will take digital signal
> from there. Even if there is also analog signal in the cable, it should be
> ignored in the DVI input.
>
In theory, I think that you are right. However, for whatever reason on
his Windows install (same hardware, I just formatted the drive) he had
a hard time configuring it to send digital. There is some software
tool especially made for pendants to check this in Windows :)
He does not want to buy a new cable when the current cable works fine.
He just wants to know that it is digital.
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Andrei Popescu
> DVI supports both digital and analgue connections (that's how VGA
> adaptors work). I have a user who fought with his Windows drivers to
> force digital connection, even though he was connecting with the DVI
> ports over a DVI cable it was sending analogue until he configured it
> properly. Not that he is running a Debian derivative, how can he check
> which connection (digital or analogue) is being used?
>
> Notice that he can't actually _see_ and difference on the screen :)
> But it is important to him to know that it is in fact digital.
Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log for DFP-0 or VGA-0 output(s).
Regards,
Andrei
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Dotan Cohen
>
Genius!
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Roger Leigh
> > Check this pic:
> > http://www.playtool.com/pages/dvicompat/sldldvi.jpg
> >
>
> I had no idea it was such a mess! Three different types of DVI?!? One
> for D, one for V, one for I?!?
As you can see from the pictures, the pinout variations¹ allow different
subsets of the pins to be used. Typically the female end on your
graphics card will be DVI-I and support all options, while the cable from
the display will have just the subset of the pins it needs.
For example, if you connect a digital monitor to a DVI-I port it *can't*
use analogue signalling: it's physically missing the C1-C4 R/G/B/HSync
lines. Typically these would only be found in a DVI->VGA converter or
cable. Just checked my monitors' cables and they are all DVI-D; if it's
an LCD, it probably won't even have the ability to do the analogue to
digital conversion, even if the connector didn't physically prevent it.
There may be weird monitors out there that accept both digital and
analogue inputs over DVI, but I've never seen one. If you are
suffering from such a situation, using a DVI-D cable would prevent any
use of analogue signalling.
The only other variations are dual link (just an extra 6 pins), and
DVI-A for analogue only (I've never ever seen this one, and this is
just the C1-C4 pins and 3 data pins removed).
Regards,
Roger
¹ http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Digital_Visual_Interface_DVI_Bus.html
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Dotan Cohen
> subsets of the pins to be used. Typically the female end on your
> graphics card will be DVI-I and support all options, while the cable from
> the display will have just the subset of the pins it needs.
>
>
> For example, if you connect a digital monitor to a DVI-I port it *can't*
Here I assume you meant DVI-D, not DVI-I?
> use analogue signalling: it's physically missing the C1-C4 R/G/B/HSync
> lines. Typically these would only be found in a DVI->VGA converter or
> cable. Just checked my monitors' cables and they are all DVI-D; if it's
> an LCD, it probably won't even have the ability to do the analogue to
> digital conversion, even if the connector didn't physically prevent it.
>
> There may be weird monitors out there that accept both digital and
> analogue inputs over DVI, but I've never seen one. If you are
> suffering from such a situation, using a DVI-D cable would prevent any
> use of analogue signalling.
>
> The only other variations are dual link (just an extra 6 pins), and
> DVI-A for analogue only (I've never ever seen this one, and this is
> just the C1-C4 pins and 3 data pins removed).
>
I'll forward this message on exactly, it explains exactly the
situation perfectly. Thank you!
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Roger Leigh
> > As you can see from the pictures, the pinout variations¹ allow different
> > subsets of the pins to be used. Typically the female end on your
> > graphics card will be DVI-I and support all options, while the cable from
> > the display will have just the subset of the pins it needs.
> >
> >
> > For example, if you connect a digital monitor to a DVI-I port it *can't*
>
> Here I assume you meant DVI-D, not DVI-I?
I mean DVI-D cable to DVI-I socket (this will ensure the signal is
digital). On my monitors and computers, all sockets are always DVI-I
and all cables are DVI-D. You can verify this on your monitor checking
if it has the four analogue connectors and the same on the cable. If
it doesn't, then it can only physically recieve digital input; problem
solved!
The only other choices cable-wise are DVI-I which can carry both
signals, and this should result in autoselection of the correct output
(which should be digital) and DVI-A (which you don't need to care
about). If you have a DVI-I cable, then it might select analogue for
some bizarre reason. Swapping for a DVI-D cable would resolve that if
you can't work out how to do it in software.
Regards,
Roger
Dotan Cohen
> digital). On my monitors and computers, all sockets are always DVI-I
> and all cables are DVI-D. You can verify this on your monitor checking
> if it has the four analogue connectors and the same on the cable. If
> it doesn't, then it can only physically recieve digital input; problem
> solved!
>
I missed the word "port" in your original comment. I see.
> The only other choices cable-wise are DVI-I which can carry both
> signals, and this should result in autoselection of the correct output
> (which should be digital) and DVI-A (which you don't need to care
> about). If you have a DVI-I cable, then it might select analogue for
> some bizarre reason. Swapping for a DVI-D cable would resolve that if
> you can't work out how to do it in software.
>
Yes, he has DVI-I ports on the monitor and on the motherboard, and a
DVI-I cable that came with the monitor. Maybe it's time to take a pair
of needle-nosed pliers to that cable!
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=?iso-8859-1?q?Camale=F3n?=
(it seems none of my previous posts have arrived to the list. Gmane has
been offline... again)
>> The only other choices cable-wise are DVI-I which can carry both
>> signals, and this should result in autoselection of the correct output
>> (which should be digital) and DVI-A (which you don't need to care
>> about). �ffff�ffffIf you have a DVI-I cable, then it might select analogue for
>> some bizarre reason. �ffff�ffffSwapping for a DVI-D cable would resolve that if
>> you can't work out how to do it in software.
>>
>>
> Yes, he has DVI-I ports on the monitor and on the motherboard, and a
> DVI-I cable that came with the monitor. Maybe it's time to take a pair
> of needle-nosed pliers to that cable!
Or better yet, you can tell the user to get a DVI-D to DVI-D cable, as I
suggested in my /very first/ post >:-)
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Camaleón
(none of my previous posts seem to have arrived to the list. Gmane has
been... again)
>> The only other choices cable-wise are DVI-I which can carry both
>> signals, and this should result in autoselection of the correct output
>> (which should be digital) and DVI-A (which you don't need to care
>> about). If you have a DVI-I cable, then it might select analogue for
>> some bizarre reason. Swapping for a DVI-D cable would resolve that if
>> you can't work out how to do it in software.
>>
>>
> Yes, he has DVI-I ports on the monitor and on the motherboard, and a
> DVI-I cable that came with the monitor. Maybe it's time to take a pair
> of needle-nosed pliers to that cable!
Or better yet, using a DVI-D to DVI-D cable, that was *exactly* what I
suggested in my /very firt/ reply >:-)
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Camaleón
(...)
> The only other choices cable-wise are DVI-I which can carry both
> signals, and this should result in autoselection of the correct output
> (which should be digital) and DVI-A (which you don't need to care
> about). If you have a DVI-I cable, then it might select analogue for
> some bizarre reason. Swapping for a DVI-D cable would resolve that if
> you can't work out how to do it in software.
I agree.
In fact, that (using a DVI-D to DVI-D cable) was the first suggestion I
made to Dotan but was quickly rejected :-)
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Camaleón
> On 8 March 2010 16:16, Camaleón wrote:
>>> He is using the cable that came with the monitor.
>>
>> Can't he get a new one? Or at least, can't he determine what type of
>> cable is it? DVI-I, DVI-D... I find that a hardware solution is the
>> most appropiate (an easiest) method to be sure :-?
>>
>>
> Why get a new cable? His current cable works fine.
Because is a cheap and easy way to assure the connection goes fully
digital.
> He just wants to know
> whether the video is analogue or digital, because in Windows on the same
> hardware he had to especially configure it to send digital.
Never heard from that situation. VGA and DVI outputs are very well
separated in both, graphic cards and displays :-?
Anyway, what tool is he using to achieve that (forcing windows going
digital) and what tool is being used to discern the signal type? That
will be quite interesting :-)
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Dotan Cohen
> suggested in my /very first/ post >:-)
>
He does not want to invest in any new hardware. I personally also
don't think that a hardware solution is the correct solution. In a
general sense, it would be good to know how to force digital.
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Dotan Cohen
>
> Because is a cheap and easy way to assure the connection goes fully
> digital.
>
A software solution would be cheaper, and is in my own opinion "the
fix", not a workaround like a new cable is.
>> He just wants to know
>> whether the video is analogue or digital, because in Windows on the same
>> hardware he had to especially configure it to send digital.
>
> Never heard from that situation. VGA and DVI outputs are very well
> separated in both, graphic cards and displays :-?
>
No, it was analogue output over the DVI-I cable. Apparently it
defaults to analogue, and one has to install a driver to get digital.
> Anyway, what tool is he using to achieve that (forcing windows going
> digital) and what tool is being used to discern the signal type? That
> will be quite interesting :-)
>
I suppose that it was the driver software, I'm not sure. I sent him a
text message a few minutes ago to ask but he's not writing back. On
windows most drivers have a userspace application too, that sits in
the system tray and gives the user one more thing to get frustrated at
:)
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Camaleón
>> Or better yet, you can tell the user to get a DVI-D to DVI-D cable, as
>> I suggested in my /very first/ post >:-)
>>
>>
> He does not want to invest in any new hardware. I personally also don't
> think that a hardware solution is the correct solution. In a general
sense, it would be good to know how to force digital.
I'd say he's facing a very strange and uncommon situation. I've never
seen that before, as I told you. And from the other user's comments I
think neither they have. In such case, I would find a very good invest
the 25$ it costs a DVI-D cable ;-)
In fact, hardware solutions tend to be better (more reliable) than any
software solution and usually are easy to diagnose. And you know, Windows
(and some manufacturers) does not always make "fair play" :-)
Remember Occam's razor statement: "the simplest solution is usually the
correct one".
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Dotan Cohen
> seen that before, as I told you. And from the other user's comments I
> think neither they have.
The thing is, I wonder just how uncommon it is! Would thinks of these
things? It would not surprise me to learn that 90% of Windows DVI
connections are analogue and the user does not know.
> In such case, I would find a very good invest
> the 25$ it costs a DVI-D cable ;-)
>
> In fact, hardware solutions tend to be better (more reliable) than any
> software solution and usually are easy to diagnose. And you know, Windows
> (and some manufacturers) does not always make "fair play" :-)
>
> Remember Occam's razor statement: "the simplest solution is usually the
> correct one".
>
If this were a mission critical situation, I would agree.
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Camaleón
>> I'd say he's facing a very strange and uncommon situation. I've never
>> seen that before, as I told you. And from the other user's comments I
>> think neither they have.
>
> The thing is, I wonder just how uncommon it is! Would thinks of these
> things? It would not surprise me to learn that 90% of Windows DVI
> connections are analogue and the user does not know.
Some steps to prevent that situation require the user:
1/ Buy a dual DVI-D card (no VGA output, no chance to mess)
2/ Use a DVD-D to DVD-D cable (no VGA pins, no chance either)
That should be "bulletproof" to ensure a digital link :-)
Anyway, the question still remains. How can we test -here in Debian- if
we are getting a digital or analog signal, regardless the source and/or
the cable being used?
>> Remember Occam's razor statement: "the simplest solution is usually the
>> correct one".
>>
>>
> If this were a mission critical situation, I would agree.
Small things can grow without warning. We must care any of them. Entropy
is out there...
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Chance Platt
>> I'd say he's facing a very strange and uncommon situation. I've never
>> seen that before, as I told you. And from the other user's comments I
>> think neither they have.
>
> The thing is, I wonder just how uncommon it is! Would thinks of these
> things? It would not surprise me to learn that 90% of Windows DVI
> connections are analogue and the user does not know.
>
>
>> In such case, I would find a very good invest
>> the 25$ it costs a DVI-D cable ;-)
>>
>> In fact, hardware solutions tend to be better (more reliable) than any
>> software solution and usually are easy to diagnose. And you know, Windows
>> (and some manufacturers) does not always make "fair play" :-)
>>
>> Remember Occam's razor statement: "the simplest solution is usually the
>> correct one".
>>
>
> If this were a mission critical situation, I would agree.
>
It probably doesn't matter at this point but my two cents: The DVI
monitors I have here, they all indicate whether they're receiving
digital or analog when they're powered on or when the signal cable gains
signal.
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Dotan Cohen
> I have here, they all indicate whether they're receiving digital or analog
> when they're powered on or when the signal cable gains signal.
>
Thanks, that is useful to know.
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