debian 8.2 live "standard" install - how to set up wifi?

[Francis Gerund]

Hello!

I just installed debian 8.2 stable, using the live "standard" 64-bit iso.  The install was done using wifi, with no problem. 

Rebooting, I get a CLI interface (okay, for now), but it did not install networking (NOT ok)! 

ifconfig shows only an "lo" entry. 

So, how do I install wifi?

I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a netinst iso, but I suspect I would end up with the same problem. 

Or, I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a full desktop iso (xfce, mate, etc), but then I would end up with lots of pre-installed bloat, just to get networking going upon install.  Not cool.

And I do need wifi, not ethernet.

What to do?

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2015-11-26, Francis Gerund <ran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> --001a11c3b1dadc040205256a8a50
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

What wireless hardware do you have? It may require proprietary firmware.
If that is the case, you will need a 'non-free' installation iso.

--

Liam

[Brian]

On Thu 26 Nov 2015 at 05:06:49 +0000, Francis Gerund wrote:

> I just installed debian 8.2 stable, using the live "standard" 64-bit iso.
> The install was done using wifi, with no problem.
>
> Rebooting, I get a CLI interface (okay, for now), but it did not install
> networking (NOT ok)!

Would you say whether you installed a desktop environment?, I'm not
familiar with the behaviour of the live ISOs.

> ifconfig shows only an "lo" entry.
>
> So, how do I install wifi?
>
> I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a netinst iso, but I suspect
> I would end up with the same problem.

Not necessarily. It depends on the answer to the question.

[Francis Gerund]

1)
Per lspci, the network adapter is:
02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01).

It is somewhat old, but not uncommon.  I have
run many distributions using it (including Debian), and never had to install proprietary firmware. 
It seems to use open source driver(s). 

2)

There is no desktop environment installed.  The install did not show an option to do so (I used the "text" install; not the "graphical" install).  It also did not offer to run tasksel, etc. I was surprised, I thought even the netinst.iso did that. 

[Brian]

On Thu 26 Nov 2015 at 12:19:22 +0000, Francis Gerund wrote:

> 1)
> Per lspci, the network adapter is:
> 02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network
> Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01).
>
> It is somewhat old, but not uncommon. I have
> run many distributions using it (including Debian), and never had to
> install proprietary firmware.
> It seems to use open source driver(s).
>
> 2)
> There is no desktop environment installed. The install did not show an
> option to do so (I used the "text" install; not the "graphical" install).
> It also did not offer to run tasksel, etc. I was surprised, I thought even
> the netinst.iso did that.

I thought a debian-live-* ISO only installed a Live system and was not
set up to as a general purpose installer like netinst.iso.

Anyway, the problem might be installing over a WiFi link *and* not
running tasksel to get a DE. In these circumstances the network is
left unconfigured.

At the d-i screen press TAB and add

netcfg/target_network_config select ifupdown

to the kernel line and boot. I'd use a netinst ISO.

How does that go?

[Teemu Likonen]

Francis Gerund [2015-11-26 05:06:49Z] wrote:

> I just installed debian 8.2 stable, using the live "standard" 64-bit
> iso. The install was done using wifi, with no problem.
>
> Rebooting, I get a CLI interface (okay, for now), but it did not
> install networking (NOT ok)!

> Or, I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a full desktop iso
> (xfce, mate, etc), but then I would end up with lots of pre-installed
> bloat, just to get networking going upon install. Not cool.

If you install a desktop task you'll get graphical tools for network
configuration (Network Manager or Wicd). I think LXDE desktop task
installs Wicd, others install Network Manager. I recommend LXDE task if
you want a small install.

[didier gaumet]

Le 26/11/2015 13:19, Francis Gerund a écrit :
> 1)
> Per lspci, the network adapter is:
> 02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network
> Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01).
>
> It is somewhat old, but not uncommon. I have
> run many distributions using it (including Debian), and never had to
> install proprietary firmware.
> It seems to use open source driver(s).
>
> 2)
> There is no desktop environment installed. The install did not show an
> option to do so (I used the "text" install; not the "graphical"
> install). It also did not offer to run tasksel, etc. I was surprised, I
> thought even the netinst.iso did that.

Hi,

these two pages could be of interest in your case:
https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k
(your wifi driver)
https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse
(how and what to install to use a wifi card)

your wifi card (wich does not require a firmware) being listed by lspci
but not by ifconfig suggests that the kernel module that manages it
(ath9k) is not loaded.

# lsmod | grep -i ath9k
should display this module loaded

if not loaded, load it:
# modprobe ath9k

then your wifi card should be listed by ifconfig, to be configured by a
way of your choice detailed in my previous HowToUse link.

Anyway I think your installation has been flawed: have you checksumed
the ISO you downloaded?
And as suggested by another contributor, a live image is perhaps not the
best way to install a taylored Debian system: an install image launched
in expert mode would do it better. Being either a network CD or even a
full-blown DVD/Blu-Ray: in expert mode you have the choice to install
the bare minimum if that pleases you.

[moxalt]

This is not the case. The Qualcomm Atheros 9285 works fine with the free ath9k
firmware.

[moxalt]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:19:22 +0000, Francis Gerund <ran...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1)
> Per lspci, the network adapter is:
> 02:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network
> Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01).
>
> It is somewhat old, but not uncommon. I have
> run many distributions using it (including Debian), and never had to
> install proprietary firmware.
> It seems to use open source driver(s).

This is true. It uses the free ath9k firmware.

> 2)
> There is no desktop environment installed. The install did not show an
> option to do so (I used the "text" install; not the "graphical" install).
> It also did not offer to run tasksel, etc. I was surprised, I thought even
> the netinst.iso did that.

This is also surprising. Even the netinst ISO displays a tasksel menu.

> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Thu 26 Nov 2015 at 05:06:49 +0000, Francis Gerund wrote:
> >
> > > I just installed debian 8.2 stable, using the live "standard" 64-bit iso.
> > > The install was done using wifi, with no problem.
> > >
> > > Rebooting, I get a CLI interface (okay, for now), but it did not install
> > > networking (NOT ok)!

!!?

> > > ifconfig shows only an "lo" entry.

This is very strange.

> > > So, how do I install wifi?
> > >
> > > I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a netinst iso, but I
> > > suspect I would end up with the same problem.

I don't think you would. I use an ASUS N43SL with an AR9285 wireless chipset,
and the wireless networking works fine. I also always install using the network
install ISO, and networking is set up correctly each time. I would try this if
I were you- I have practically no experience installing from the 'live-*' CDs,
but the netinst might work.

When installing (you don't even need to select any tasks; a minimal
installation (even without the 'console environment' selection) should
correctly set up networking via all compatible interfaces and furnish you with
wpa_supplicant as well) try selecting the wireless option in the network setup
menu just to make sure.

[Brian]

On Fri 27 Nov 2015 at 21:16:40 +0300, moxalt wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:19:22 +0000, Francis Gerund <ran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > So, how do I install wifi?
> > > >
> > > > I could uninstall, then try re-installing from a netinst iso, but I
> > > > suspect I would end up with the same problem.
>
> I don't think you would. I use an ASUS N43SL with an AR9285 wireless chipset,
> and the wireless networking works fine. I also always install using the network
> install ISO, and networking is set up correctly each time. I would try this if
> I were you- I have practically no experience installing from the 'live-*' CDs,
> but the netinst might work.

Installing with netinst is good advice. Nobody as yet has come along to
advice us on how to go about it with a live-* CD.

> When installing (you don't even need to select any tasks; a minimal
> installation (even without the 'console environment' selection) should
> correctly set up networking via all compatible interfaces and furnish you with
> wpa_supplicant as well) try selecting the wireless option in the network setup
> menu just to make sure.

This bothers me. You install without any tasks (that's ok) and
networking is there when the new systam boots? Are you installing over a
wireless link? Just to emphasise - no wired connection is present.

[Francis Gerund]

Thanks for the replies. 

And the good information - I would have spent a long time digging and still not have found the links provided. 

I downloaded a "regular" netinst iso, and did a fresh install from that, choosing the MATE desktop.  Networking (including wireless) works. 

So, the problem was solved. 

But I do find it strange that although the "live"
standard iso does have (and use) wireless networking for installation, the installed system apparently is not set up to use it, at least without some "surgery". 

Note that the full-desktop live isos do install working wireless networking.  I have previously used this with the live GNOME, XFCE and LXDE isos.  So why not the standard live iso? 

It also seems strange that the standard live iso does not offer to install any desktop, or even window manager.  It only installs a cli interface. 

I also want to note that I uninstalled a perfectly good installation of another distribution to install from the Debian live standard iso.  With only one computer, with no other system installed, having only one cd drive, and no "working" networking, not a whole lot of fun. 

BTW, the live iso (and the netinst) were not defective, checksums were fine on both the images and the cds burned from them. 

And, the installation from the netinst iso does use the ath9k wireless driver (open source, free) to drive a wireless network adapter that uses the Atheros AR9285 chipset.  As usual, no problem there. 

Bottom line:

1) use the netinst.iso to install. 

2) do not use the live "standard" iso for much except amusement (and aggravation and wasted time and effort). 

3) the installation procedures for Debian still (after all these years) need a lot of work. 

4) the Debian documentation could use a "clean-up".  There's quite a bit of it, but it often feels like it is written "by technicians, for technicians", and it's not always user friendly. 

Thanks again for your time.

[moxalt]

Yes, networking is just there.

I boot with a netinstall USB, select my wireless interface for the
installation, and networking just works after I've rebooted. Both eth0, wlan0,
and lo appear in my ifconfig list. The firmware is correctly installed and
everything works. All that remains is to put wlan0 up, connect to my router
with wpa_supplicant, and get an IP with dhclient. After that, I'm good to go.

[Brian]

On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 10:52:46 +0300, moxalt wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:58:46 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > This bothers me. You install without any tasks (that's ok) and
> > networking is there when the new systam boots? Are you installing over a
> > wireless link? Just to emphasise - no wired connection is present.
>
> Yes, networking is just there.

This still bothers me. :)

If networking is just there why, as you say later, do you have to bring
wlan0 up? Also, how do you manage to have eth0 in the output of
'ifconfig' when the wireless interface has been chosen for installing?
It cannot be in /etc/network/interfaces.

> I boot with a netinstall USB, select my wireless interface for the
> installation, and networking just works after I've rebooted. Both eth0, wlan0,
> and lo appear in my ifconfig list. The firmware is correctly installed and
> everything works. All that remains is to put wlan0 up, connect to my router
> with wpa_supplicant, and get an IP with dhclient. After that, I'm good to go.

I'd better say why I am bothered.

D-I sets up networking with netcfg. The file

/usr/lib/finish-install.d/55netcfg-copy-config

in the package has

# Check for preseeding. If the value of the question is empty then set
# default options. Document automatic selection changes in the template.
if [ -z "$RET" ]; then
if $NM_IS_INSTALLED; then
db_set netcfg/target_network_config $CONFIG_NM
else
if [ "$NETCFG_CONNECTION_TYPE" = "wired" ]; then
db_set netcfg/target_network_config $CONFIG_INTERFACES
else # wireless
db_set netcfg/target_network_config $CONFIG_LOOPBACK
fi
fi
fi

If NM is not installed (which is what would happen with no tasks) and no
wired install the only stanza written to /e/n/i at the end of the
install is a loopback one. That is, metworking is not there after first
boot.

[moxalt]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:36:35 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 10:52:46 +0300, moxalt wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:58:46 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > This bothers me. You install without any tasks (that's ok) and
> > > networking is there when the new systam boots? Are you installing over a
> > > wireless link? Just to emphasise - no wired connection is present.
> >
> > Yes, networking is just there.
>
> This still bothers me. :)
>
> If networking is just there why, as you say later, do you have to bring
> wlan0 up? Also, how do you manage to have eth0 in the output of
> 'ifconfig' when the wireless interface has been chosen for installing?
> It cannot be in /etc/network/interfaces.

Let me clarify what I meant by networking just being there. I did not say that
a connection would be up and running straight away- just that all relevant
network interfaces would be available for me to connect over. It is not the
case that I am able to use internet straight away after booting- I have to
actually connect to things with tools like wpa_supplicant, iwconfig, etc.

By the way, it seems I've been putting wlan0 up needlessly this whole time. I
taught myself how to do command-line networking off some Ubuntu tutorial that
said I should do it (probably just to cover all cases) and have been doing
ifconfig <interface> up this whole time for no reason. After reading the
ifconfig man page, it seems the kernel uses ifconfig to put all interfaces up
at boot anyway, after which they are all up (as indicated by ifconfig run with
no arguments).

What is strange, though, is that when I boot using the 'text'
LINUX_CMDLINE_DEFAULT GRUB kernel parameter, and then type ifconfig wlan0 up in
the tty, a dmesg message appears declaring 'Link not ready' or something to
that effect- and then it goes on working just fine. Does anyone else see this
happening?

After I investigated, your second point sent shivers of spooky down my spleen.
The contents of /etc/network/interfaces are as follows:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither eth nor wlan are there!? You were right when you said they couldn't be
in /etc/network/interfaces. However, the mystery continues- ifconfig reports
the following:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr f4:6d:04:89:e3:01
UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:65536 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:0 (0.0 B) TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr e0:b9:a5:22:b9:43
inet addr:192.168.1.109 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::e2b9:a5ff:fe22:b943/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:6373 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:2862 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:4755201 (4.5 MiB) TX bytes:400106 (390.7 KiB)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lo, wlan0, and eth0 are all there! I am but a humble luser, and have no idea
what is going on.

My installation appears to have thus defied the laws of physics, Debian
installation, and bash scripting.

I installed a completely minimal setup with no tasks selected, using wlan0 as
my installation network interface. Lo and behold, upon boot everything works as
described.

Can someone else try installing like I did and see if the same occurs?

[Brian]

On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 22:22:30 +0300, moxalt wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 12:36:35 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Sat 28 Nov 2015 at 10:52:46 +0300, moxalt wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:58:46 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This bothers me. You install without any tasks (that's ok) and
> > > > networking is there when the new systam boots? Are you installing over a
> > > > wireless link? Just to emphasise - no wired connection is present.
> > >
> > > Yes, networking is just there.
> >
> > This still bothers me. :)
> >
> > If networking is just there why, as you say later, do you have to bring
> > wlan0 up? Also, how do you manage to have eth0 in the output of
> > 'ifconfig' when the wireless interface has been chosen for installing?
> > It cannot be in /etc/network/interfaces.
>
> Let me clarify what I meant by networking just being there. I did not say that
> a connection would be up and running straight away- just that all relevant
> network interfaces would be available for me to connect over. It is not the
> case that I am able to use internet straight away after booting- I have to
> actually connect to things with tools like wpa_supplicant, iwconfig, etc.

You have clarified the situation immensely. In fact, you have confirmed
that netcfg behaves as it is presently designed to, Without any selected
DE task and installing over a Wifi connection there is no connectivity
after finishing the install. You have to configure, as you say. some
software.

When I first met this I was quite astounded; why no connectivity even
though it present during installation?

The thinking would appear to be that someone who does not install
network manager or install over a wired connection wants to set up
networking afterwards. This is what you actually did, without being
aware of netcfg's intentions. You used your initiative because you had
to if you wanted to connect to other machines.

> By the way, it seems I've been putting wlan0 up needlessly this whole time. I
> taught myself how to do command-line networking off some Ubuntu tutorial that
> said I should do it (probably just to cover all cases) and have been doing
> ifconfig <interface> up this whole time for no reason. After reading the
> ifconfig man page, it seems the kernel uses ifconfig to put all interfaces up
> at boot anyway, after which they are all up (as indicated by ifconfig run with
> no arguments).

How did you establish the connectivity that d-i did not provide? It
could only be through a wired connection or wpasupplicant using ifupdown
or NM (or wicd, I suppose). You are obviously connected now, so you must
have done something to rectify being unable to access the internet.

At a guess (which I dislike doing) you have network manager (or some
other wireless package) installed.

> lo, wlan0, and eth0 are all there! I am but a humble luser, and have no idea
> what is going on.
>
> > > I boot with a netinstall USB, select my wireless interface for the
> > > installation, and networking just works after I've rebooted. Both eth0,
> > > wlan0, and lo appear in my ifconfig list. The firmware is correctly
> > > installed and everything works. All that remains is to put wlan0 up,
> > > connect to my router with wpa_supplicant, and get an IP with dhclient.
> > > After that, I'm good to go.

But you cannot be good to go. You have no connectivity; networking
doesn't "just work. You had to have done something to make it work. You
said as much earlier on.

We'll see.

[moxalt]

When did I say that debian-installer provided no connectivity? I successfully
installed over WLAN using it.

> It
> could only be through a wired connection or wpasupplicant using ifupdown
> or NM (or wicd, I suppose). You are obviously connected now, so you must
> have done something to rectify being unable to access the internet.

wpa_supplicant, ifconfig, and dhclient.

What do you consider to be 'just working'? If by 'just working' you mean that
an internet connection is already available straight after boot, with no extra
work, this is not the case. By 'just working' I am referring to the interfaces
being present and the requisite firmware being installed.

Upon boot (after installation over wireless with no tasks selected) I am only
two commands away from a network connection-

# wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211 -iwlan0 -c.wlan-conf -B
# dhclient wlan0

I consider that 'just working'.

I'm actually just going to reiterate what happened, because there appears to
have been a little bit of a misunderstanding.

I used a Debian netinstall USB to install my current system. I selected wlan0
as my network interface to use for the purposes of the installation. I selected
no tasks, so only a minimal console setup was installed.

The installation carried out and concluded successfully. Upon reboot, ifconfig
reported the existence of lo, eth0, and wlan0. I then used wpa_supplicant to
authenticate with my router, and dhclient to request an IP address. After that,
I was able to access the internet (apt-get update, browsing with lynx, etc.).

I had to do this every subsequent boot to get internet access.

After several months of booting into a tty, setting up an internet connection,
and then starting X manually, I decided to install MATE, LightDM, and NM, which
is what I currently use. Prior to that, I had no network manager of any sort
installed.

[Brian]

On Mon 30 Nov 2015 at 01:03:56 +0300, moxalt wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Nov 2015 20:28:07 +0000, Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > How did you establish the connectivity that d-i did not provide?
>
> When did I say that debian-installer provided no connectivity? I successfully
> installed over WLAN using it.

You didn't. Neither did I. After the first boot you were not connected
to the internet even though you were during the the installation.

> > It
> > could only be through a wired connection or wpasupplicant using ifupdown
> > or NM (or wicd, I suppose). You are obviously connected now, so you must
> > have done something to rectify being unable to access the internet.
>
> wpa_supplicant, ifconfig, and dhclient.

If you had not done this you still wouldn't have the connectivity you
had while using d-i to install. (Using apt-get to install NM would be a
challenge :)).

> > But you cannot be good to go. You have no connectivity; networking
> > doesn't "just work. You had to have done something to make it work. You
> > said as much earlier on.
>
> What do you consider to be 'just working'? If by 'just working' you mean that
> an internet connection is already available straight after boot, with no extra
> work, this is not the case. By 'just working' I am referring to the interfaces
> being present and the requisite firmware being installed.

The difference is between having the potential and the actuality. A USB
port has the potential to provide a printing service. Does this mean
printing 'just works'?

> Upon boot (after installation over wireless with no tasks selected) I am only
> two commands away from a network connection-
>
> # wpa_supplicant -Dnl80211 -iwlan0 -c.wlan-conf -B
> # dhclient wlan0
>
> I consider that 'just working'.

The two of us have had exactly the same experience. We both are in
complete agreement about what happens when an install over WiFi takes
place without a desktop task. That's a considerable achievement. You
consider the end result to be a working one with respect to networking.
I don't. Lets agree to differ on that.

> > > Can someone else try installing like I did and see if the same occurs?
> >
> > We'll see.
>
> I'm actually just going to reiterate what happened, because there appears to
> have been a little bit of a misunderstanding.

Not on my part. While not agreeing with the sentiment, I even understand
now what you mean by 'just working'.

> I used a Debian netinstall USB to install my current system. I selected wlan0
> as my network interface to use for the purposes of the installation. I selected
> no tasks, so only a minimal console setup was installed.

Been there; done that.

> The installation carried out and concluded successfully. Upon reboot, ifconfig
> reported the existence of lo, eth0, and wlan0. I then used wpa_supplicant to

My experience, too.

> authenticate with my router, and dhclient to request an IP address. After that,
> I was able to access the internet (apt-get update, browsing with lynx, etc.).

Did that (because there was no connectivily), but not quite in that way.

> I had to do this every subsequent boot to get internet access.

This would get a bit tedious with a 63 character WPA passphrase.
Especially after a month or two.

> I had to do this every subsequent boot to get internet access.
>
> After several months of booting into a tty, setting up an internet connection,
> and then starting X manually, I decided to install MATE, LightDM, and NM, which
> is what I currently use. Prior to that, I had no network manager of any sort
> installed.

Seems like a happy outcome. Let's end on that note.