OT: Using my (new) cable based ISP with their modem in bridge mode and my existing router

[rhkr...@gmail.com]

Some key phrases / sub topics:
* Astound (cable based) ISP in eastern Pa. area
* Arris DG2470A modem / router in bridge mode with Ubiquiti Edge Router X
* Ubiquiti Edge Router X in DMZ

Aside: I'm in a catch 22 -- my new, cable-based ISP (Astound / RCN) says my
questions are out of scope and I should talk to the manufacturer. The
manufacturer says that the Arris DG2470A modem / router is not something they
sell to the end user (only to ISPs or such), and thus I should get support
from the ISP, so:

For the the last 10 years or so I've used a DSL modem (in bridge mode) and a
Ubiquiti Edge Router X. With the modem in bridge mode the router was
responsible for connection to the ISP (and using, afaict, pppoe).

I've now signed up to a new ISP (Astound / RCN) that provides access via cable
(and, of course, a cable modem, an Arris DG2470A -- it does include a router
but without all the features I'd like to have). So far, I have not been able
to connect to Astound with the modem in bridge mode (and using DHCP in the
router).

(The new modem / router does work fine in non-bridge mode, so my connection and
such works.)

I'm not 100% sure whether Astound (in my area, around Allentown, Pa.) uses
PPPoE or DHCP to make the connection. So far, I've tried only DHCP.

Astound does need to do something on their end to register the modem in order
to make it work. They have told me that the thing they need to register the
modem is the MAC address (and, of course, they have that for the Arris).

I am thinking of doing something like cloning the modem's MAC address in the
router (and also maybe putting a different MAC address in the Arris) so that
maybe Astound will accept a logon from the Ubiquiti router (of course, I don't
know if the problem is that Astound doesn't like that the Ubiquiti is trying
to make the connection).

I've also seen a suggestion that I put the Ubiquiti in the DMZ zone of the
Arris, but I haven't fully assimilated that suggestion, for example, I'm not
sure what IP address to assign to the (WAN) port of the Ubiquiti in that case
-- a private address on my LAN or something else.

(Right now I've got a bunch of web pages open, some of which I've started to
read -- when I find / get back to the page that suggests putting the Ubiquiti
in the DMZ, my questions might be answered (on the subject of putting the
Ubiquiti in the DMZ).

I'm also not sure what problems having the Ubiquiti in the DMZ might cause --
in general, I'd prefer to have the Ubiquiti connected to the Arris in bridge
mode (because of my past experience).

I did think about using both the Ubiquiti (and DHCP, if that's what Astound
uses in this area) and the Arris sort of in series (the Ubiquiti ("downstream"
of the Arris) then doing the DHCP (and other features, e.g. QOS) for the LAN,
but I'm leery of doing that because I've seen (somewhat vague) warnings on the
Internet about doing double NAT. (Maybe that is only an issue of speed, which
I don't think would bother me -- the Astound connection could be 30 (or more
(or less)) times as fast as the DSL connection.)

I suppose I could do the two in series (as mentioned above), leave DHCP turned
on in both, but the firewall turned off in the upstream modem / router.

I'm getting too old -- trial and error (as I've done a few times) is nerve
wracking for me. Even getting the Ubiquiti back to the configuration to use on
my DSL ISP drove me crazy, I had to try a few times to do that (I haven't
cancelled my DSL ISP yet), and I'm not sure that I know the exact steps to get
that setup working again if I have to (i.e., if I try the Astound connection
and don't get it working), but I feel, since I accomplished it once, I can do
it again (i.e., I'm seeking comments on the problems of connecting to
Astound rather than those of reconnecting to my DSL ISP).

Thanks!

[Dan Ritter]

rhkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some key phrases / sub topics:
> * Astound (cable based) ISP in eastern Pa. area
> * Arris DG2470A modem / router in bridge mode with Ubiquiti Edge Router X
> * Ubiquiti Edge Router X in DMZ

> I've now signed up to a new ISP (Astound / RCN) that provides access via cable
> (and, of course, a cable modem, an Arris DG2470A -- it does include a router
> but without all the features I'd like to have). So far, I have not been able
> to connect to Astound with the modem in bridge mode (and using DHCP in the
> router).
>

> I'm not 100% sure whether Astound (in my area, around Allentown, Pa.) uses
> PPPoE or DHCP to make the connection. So far, I've tried only DHCP.

All the other RCN connections I've heard of used DHCP to assign
an IPv4 address. (I used them for seven years.)

> I am thinking of doing something like cloning the modem's MAC address in the
> router (and also maybe putting a different MAC address in the Arris) so that
> maybe Astound will accept a logon from the Ubiquiti router (of course, I don't
> know if the problem is that Astound doesn't like that the Ubiquiti is trying
> to make the connection).

Let me offer a different solution: buy your own cable modem.

The 2470A is a 24x8 DOCSIS 3.0 modem, along with the aggravating
router portion.

You can get a Motorola MG7621 for under $100. It's also a 24x8
DOCSIS 3.0 modem.

Others include Linksys CM3024, Netgear CM600, and TP-Link
TC7650.

All of these are on RCN's own approved list.

Once you have one of them, call up the service center to get it
authorized on your account, and then connect up your router to
the ethernet port.

-dsr-

[john doe]

On 4/28/23 20:25, rhkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some key phrases / sub topics:
> * Astound (cable based) ISP in eastern Pa. area
> * Arris DG2470A modem / router in bridge mode with Ubiquiti Edge Router X
> * Ubiquiti Edge Router X in DMZ
>

I'm tired but I'm lost at your set up and I'm not in the US! :)

- Is Astound simply the name of your ISP or is it a HW from your ISP?
- Arris DG2470A, where is it coming from (provided by your ISP?)
- Ubiquiti Edge Router X in DMZ, why is DMZ relevent in this set up?

> Aside: I'm in a catch 22 -- my new, cable-based ISP (Astound / RCN) says my
> questions are out of scope and I should talk to the manufacturer. The
> manufacturer says that the Arris DG2470A modem / router is not something they
> sell to the end user (only to ISPs or such), and thus I should get support
> from the ISP, so:
>

Okay, Arris is the modem provided by your ISP! :)

> I've now signed up to a new ISP (Astound / RCN) that provides access via cable
> (and, of course, a cable modem, an Arris DG2470A -- it does include a router
> but without all the features I'd like to have). So far, I have not been able
> to connect to Astound with the modem in bridge mode (and using DHCP in the
> router).

Bridge mode will disable router capability which include DHCP capability.

> I'm not 100% sure whether Astound (in my area, around Allentown, Pa.) uses
> PPPoE or DHCP to make the connection. So far, I've tried only DHCP.

I would say cable uses DHCP or a static IP if you pay for it.

>
> Astound does need to do something on their end to register the modem in order
> to make it work. They have told me that the thing they need to register the
> modem is the MAC address (and, of course, they have that for the Arris).

This is possible but that could also be something else.
My ISP does not use the mac addr!

> I've also seen a suggestion that I put the Ubiquiti in the DMZ zone of the
> Arris, but I haven't fully assimilated that suggestion, for example, I'm not
> sure what IP address to assign to the (WAN) port of the Ubiquiti in that case
> -- a private address on my LAN or something else.
>

If you use your Arris in router mode, you could use the DMZ capability
to avoid FW and some other stuff that the Arris would do if your Ubikiti
was not in the DMZ.
In other words, bridge mode will give the public IP from your ISP to
your Ubikiti while DMZ will let you use the FW from your Ubikiti to
protect the network that is behind your Ubikiti while getting an private
IP from your ISP Arris modem router.

> (Right now I've got a bunch of web pages open, some of which I've started to
> read -- when I find / get back to the page that suggests putting the Ubiquiti
> in the DMZ, my questions might be answered (on the subject of putting the
> Ubiquiti in the DMZ).
>

If I can, I'll always use a modem from my ISP with my own stuff behind it.
If my ISP does not give a modem, I'll revert to put it in bridge mode
which will act effectively as a modem.
If I can not get a modem or have access to bridge mode, I will resort to
a DMZ capability from my ISP crap!

> I'm also not sure what problems having the Ubiquiti in the DMZ might cause --
> in general, I'd prefer to have the Ubiquiti connected to the Arris in bridge
> mode (because of my past experience).

+1

>
> I did think about using both the Ubiquiti (and DHCP, if that's what Astound
> uses in this area) and the Arris sort of in series (the Ubiquiti ("downstream"
> of the Arris) then doing the DHCP (and other features, e.g. QOS) for the LAN,
> but I'm leery of doing that because I've seen (somewhat vague) warnings on the
> Internet about doing double NAT. (Maybe that is only an issue of speed, which

Double NAT is one thing but the real issue to me in this case what is
the deffinition of DMZ for the Arris.

> I don't think would bother me -- the Astound connection could be 30 (or more
> (or less)) times as fast as the DSL connection.)
>
> I suppose I could do the two in series (as mentioned above), leave DHCP turned
> on in both, but the firewall turned off in the upstream modem / router.

Which is what the DMZ should do, note that in the DMZ set up the client
side of your Arris would get a lease from your ISP with a public address
then the DHCP server of the Arris would dish out an private Ip to your
Ubikiti DHCP client in this case and the DHCP server of your Ubikiti
will provide private IPs to your network(s).

>
> I'm getting too old -- trial and error (as I've done a few times) is nerve
> wracking for me. Even getting the Ubiquiti back to the configuration to use on
> my DSL ISP drove me crazy, I had to try a few times to do that (I haven't
> cancelled my DSL ISP yet), and I'm not sure that I know the exact steps to get
> that setup working again if I have to (i.e., if I try the Astound connection
> and don't get it working), but I feel, since I accomplished it once, I can do
> it again (i.e., I'm seeking comments on the problems of connecting to
> Astound rather than those of reconnecting to my DSL ISP).
>

You should be able to back up the config of your Ubikiti when it's
working in ADSL mode.

Basically, it should be:
- ISP modem in bridge mode connected to the wan of your Ubikiti and it
should work unless Astound is ...

HTH.

--
John Doe

[David Wright]

On Fri 28 Apr 2023 at 14:25:20 (-0400), rhkr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Some key phrases / sub topics:
> * Astound (cable based) ISP in eastern Pa. area
> * Arris DG2470A modem / router in bridge mode with Ubiquiti Edge Router X
> * Ubiquiti Edge Router X in DMZ

[ … ]

> I did think about using both the Ubiquiti (and DHCP, if that's what Astound
> uses in this area) and the Arris sort of in series (the Ubiquiti ("downstream"
> of the Arris) then doing the DHCP (and other features, e.g. QOS) for the LAN,
> but I'm leery of doing that because I've seen (somewhat vague) warnings on the
> Internet about doing double NAT. (Maybe that is only an issue of speed, which
> I don't think would bother me -- the Astound connection could be 30 (or more
> (or less)) times as fast as the DSL connection.)
>
> I suppose I could do the two in series (as mentioned above), leave DHCP turned
> on in both, but the firewall turned off in the upstream modem / router.
>
> I'm getting too old -- trial and error (as I've done a few times) is nerve
> wracking for me. Even getting the Ubiquiti back to the configuration to use on
> my DSL ISP drove me crazy, I had to try a few times to do that (I haven't
> cancelled my DSL ISP yet), and I'm not sure that I know the exact steps to get
> that setup working again if I have to (i.e., if I try the Astound connection
> and don't get it working), but I feel, since I accomplished it once, I can do
> it again (i.e., I'm seeking comments on the problems of connecting to
> Astound rather than those of reconnecting to my DSL ISP).

Your post is rather technical for me, so I'll just describe what I do.
We used to have a cable modem (Cisco DPC3010), apparently in bridge
mode (unclear whether there was another mode), connected with Cat5
to my router, a Netgear WNDR3400v3. Near the beginning of the
pandemic, the modem burnt out, so I replaced it with some sort of
Panoramic modem/router, about which I know little except that it has
two LAN ports. I connected one of these to the WAN of our router, by
now a Netgear R6020, and that was it. We just pretend the Panoramic
is the old Cisco.

The R6020 connects to the WAN with DHCP, as it always did before with
the Cisco, and it runs a DHCP server on the LAN side for all our
devices, wired and wireless, with a small range (192.168.1.200 up)
for strangers.

The old Netgear WNDR3400v3 had been retired with a dead WAN port,
but because our house is rather long, I now use it as an extender.
I turned off the WAN stuff, and also its DHCP, and connected one
LAN port to a R6020 LAN port (both have four). Its wireless, which
usually works, has the same SSID and PSK as the R6020. (To know
which router you're connected to, the easiest way is to ping
either router and then type ip n for the MAC.)

When we no longer need to network and zoom with the university,
we'll probably ditch the Panoramic and buy a plain modem again.

Cheers,
David.

[rhkr...@gmail.com]

Intentionally top posting:

Thanks to all who replied, I got the Arris DG2470A modem (/ router) working in
bridge mode with my existing router (Ubiquiti Edge Router X).

I made a dumb mistake -- I had my router and another computer plugged into the
Arris (I used the other computer to configure the Arris), and then I switched
to bridge mode. At least once I noticed that I could ping the Internet from
that other computer, which meant that the Arris was in bridge mode, but that
computer was using the Arris modem instead of my router.

Since then, I've done better -- e.g., configured the Arris to bridge mode, then
powered down the Arris, unplugged that other computer, plugged in my Ubiquiti
router and configured it to connect to the WAN by DHCP.

Aside: In my previous (DSL) installation, the modem was a modem only, and had
only one place to connect an Ethernet cable. With the Arris, being a router
as well as a modem, it had 4 places to plug in an Ethernet cable, and, without
thinking about it, I plugged in two devices (a computer and the Ubiquiti),
but, in bridge mode, only one of those was going to work. Sometimes I feel
like an idiot.

All seems well.


On Friday, April 28, 2023 11:08:45 PM David Wright wrote:

--
rhk

| No entity has permission to use this email to train an AI.

[songbird]

rhkr...@gmail.com wrote:
...
> ... Sometimes I feel

> like an idiot.
>
> All seems well.

:)

i've had days like that... glad you figured it out.

completely OT from your issue, but today i finally upgraded
my stable partition from whatever it was on (last major update
was probably a year or more ago).

glad to say that with a bit of heavy hammer hitting i got it
all to update and than as usual it did the os-prober at the
end which was ok, but since my /boot partition on that setup
did not have the right efi/EFI/<blahblah> it was not able to
immediately switch into my refind menu like i am used to doing
(because i did not install refind on my stable partition).
so of course i go off to do that and then at the end it asks
about putting stuff on my efi partition and i say yes and then
a second later i'm wondering if i just overwrote my refind
configuration file. after a bit of nosing around i could
breath a bit better because no it did not destroy my config
so i was all set. so you are not the only one here who can
mess up something. :)


songbird