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A lot of problems with debian sid on a Notebook
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Thore
Dec 22, 2012, 7:00:01 PM12/22/12
to
Hello,
on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
version with kde).
Now I have a few questions:
1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
And how can I delete it?
2:My Network Manager is not working right.
First the Wlan wasn't working I installed the driver and it worked.
The next day I restarted and nothing worked.
I needed a few time to set up eth0.
Over eth0 I can use Iceweasel and aptitude but the networkmanager (kde)
doesn't accepts the connection. Because of this Pidgin is not working.
wlan isn't working too.
3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
Sorry for my english
regards
Thore
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on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
version with kde).
Now I have a few questions:
1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
And how can I delete it?
2:My Network Manager is not working right.
First the Wlan wasn't working I installed the driver and it worked.
The next day I restarted and nothing worked.
I needed a few time to set up eth0.
Over eth0 I can use Iceweasel and aptitude but the networkmanager (kde)
doesn't accepts the connection. Because of this Pidgin is not working.
wlan isn't working too.
3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
Sorry for my english
regards
Thore
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Dec 22, 2012, 8:00:01 PM12/22/12
to
Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
> Hello,
> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
> version with kde).
Hum, knowing that it is an alienware say nothing about the processor
> Hello,
> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
> version with kde).
model, so maybe the 32bit choice is not the best one.
I do not know, for now I did not read your full mail.
> Now I have a few questions:
> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
> ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> And how can I delete it?
which is not possible for motherboards with simple 32 bit support.
However, noawadays, I do not think
there are still new computers without 64 bit support, which include the
ability to support more RAM than old (and when I say old, that's more
than 10 years) computers.
I think you could remove non-pae options. In fact, I'm pretty sure you
could simply move to a 64 bit architecture... but in doubt, just try to
boot on pae, and if everything works correctly, remove the other one.
> 2:My Network Manager is not working right.
> First the Wlan wasn't working I installed the driver and it worked.
> The next day I restarted and nothing worked.
> I needed a few time to set up eth0.
> Over eth0 I can use Iceweasel and aptitude but the networkmanager
> (kde) doesn't accepts the connection. Because of this Pidgin is not
> working.
> wlan isn't working too.
and wireless have often closed source drivers. So with debian, you will
need to enable them by yourself. Wiki and internet are full of
informations about that, but, in short, enable contrib and non-free repo
in your /etc/apt/sources.list, know your hardware with $lspci or $lsusb
and you should have enough informations to discover what you need to
install.
Eth0 is usually working fine with generic, and free, versions, this is
why it works. If your network manager gives you problem... the solution
I took until now, which is not advised, is to only enable the kind of
network you need.
In few words, this consist about using commands like #ifdown
<eth0/wlan0>, #ifdown <eth0/wlan0> and editing the file named
/etc/network/interfaces.
Of course, this is not an automated solution, but it avoids the use of
any software taking decisions for you.
> 3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
I can see no interest of using 32b when you can use 64b. I might be
wrong, so, please, explain me why you switched back to 32B?
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Kushal Kumaran
Dec 23, 2012, 4:30:01 AM12/23/12
to
berenge...@neutralite.org writes:
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
>> version with kde).
>
> Hum, knowing that it is an alienware say nothing about the processor
> model, so maybe the 32bit choice is not the best one.
> I do not know, for now I did not read your full mail.
>
>> Now I have a few questions:
>> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
>> ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
>> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
>> And how can I delete it?
>
> PAE is an extension to expand your maximum RAM above 4G byte of RAM,
> which is not possible for motherboards with simple 32 bit support.
> However, noawadays, I do not think
> there are still new computers without 64 bit support, which include the
> ability to support more RAM than old (and when I say old, that's more
> than 10 years) computers.
There are several inexpensive laptops using Intel's Atom processors
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
>> version with kde).
>
> Hum, knowing that it is an alienware say nothing about the processor
> model, so maybe the 32bit choice is not the best one.
> I do not know, for now I did not read your full mail.
>
>> Now I have a few questions:
>> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
>> ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
>> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
>> And how can I delete it?
>
> PAE is an extension to expand your maximum RAM above 4G byte of RAM,
> which is not possible for motherboards with simple 32 bit support.
> However, noawadays, I do not think
> there are still new computers without 64 bit support, which include the
> ability to support more RAM than old (and when I say old, that's more
> than 10 years) computers.
being sold right now which cannot run 64-bit operating systems.
Probably not a problem with the alienware branded machines, though.
> <snip>
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kushal
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Andrei POPESCU
Dec 23, 2012, 5:10:02 AM12/23/12
to
On Du, 23 dec 12, 00:51:51, Thore wrote:
> Hello,
> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> 32bit version with kde).
> Now I have a few questions:
> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> And how can I delete it?
Uninstall the corresponding linux-image package.
> Hello,
> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> 32bit version with kde).
> Now I have a few questions:
> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> And how can I delete it?
> 3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
Kind regards,
Andrei
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Lisi Reisz
Dec 23, 2012, 5:20:01 AM12/23/12
to
On Sunday 23 December 2012 10:01:46 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 23 dec 12, 00:51:51, Thore wrote:
> > Hello,
> > on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> > 32bit version with kde).
> > Now I have a few questions:
> > 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> > one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> > Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> > And how can I delete it?
>
> Uninstall the corresponding linux-image package.
Using your package manager of choice. (apt, aptitude, synaptic.) You cannot
> On Du, 23 dec 12, 00:51:51, Thore wrote:
> > Hello,
> > on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> > 32bit version with kde).
> > Now I have a few questions:
> > 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> > one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> > Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> > And how can I delete it?
>
> Uninstall the corresponding linux-image package.
just delete a kernel.
Lisi
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Chris Bannister
Dec 23, 2012, 5:30:02 AM12/23/12
to
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:10:00AM +0000, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Sunday 23 December 2012 10:01:46 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Du, 23 dec 12, 00:51:51, Thore wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> > > 32bit version with kde).
> > > Now I have a few questions:
> > > 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> > > one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> > > Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> > > And how can I delete it?
> >
> > Uninstall the corresponding linux-image package.
>
> Using your package manager of choice. (apt, aptitude, synaptic.) You cannot
> just delete a kernel.
"dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think it
> On Sunday 23 December 2012 10:01:46 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Du, 23 dec 12, 00:51:51, Thore wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the
> > > 32bit version with kde).
> > > Now I have a few questions:
> > > 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name.
> > > one ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
> > > Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
> > > And how can I delete it?
> >
> > Uninstall the corresponding linux-image package.
>
> Using your package manager of choice. (apt, aptitude, synaptic.) You cannot
> just delete a kernel.
even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
willing to test that myself. :)
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Thore
Dec 23, 2012, 6:00:02 AM12/23/12
to
Am 23.12.2012 01:57, schrieb berenge...@neutralite.org:
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
>> version with kde).
>
> Hum, knowing that it is an alienware say nothing about the processor
> model, so maybe the 32bit choice is not the best one.
> I do not know, for now I did not read your full mail.
>
It is an i3 with 64bit support, I had a 32bit cd here so used it without
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
>> Hello,
>> on my Alienware m15x Notebook I installed debian wheezy (in the 32bit
>> version with kde).
>
> Hum, knowing that it is an alienware say nothing about the processor
> model, so maybe the 32bit choice is not the best one.
> I do not know, for now I did not read your full mail.
>
thinkink about it.
The system has 5gb ram
>> Now I have a few questions:
>> 1: When I boot there will be 4 linux entrys with the kernel name. one
>> ending ...-4-686-pae (or like this) ando one with a 2 as the 4.
>> Can I delete the entry with the 2 (inclusive the recovery?)
>> And how can I delete it?
>
> PAE is an extension to expand your maximum RAM above 4G byte of RAM,
> which is not possible for motherboards with simple 32 bit support.
> However, noawadays, I do not think
> there are still new computers without 64 bit support, which include
> the ability to support more RAM than old (and when I say old, that's
> more than 10 years) computers.
> I think you could remove non-pae options. In fact, I'm pretty sure you
> could simply move to a 64 bit architecture... but in doubt, just try
> to boot on pae, and if everything works correctly, remove the other one.
...-2-686-pae entry?
>
>> 2:My Network Manager is not working right.
>> First the Wlan wasn't working I installed the driver and it worked.
>> The next day I restarted and nothing worked.
>> I needed a few time to set up eth0.
>> Over eth0 I can use Iceweasel and aptitude but the networkmanager
>> (kde) doesn't accepts the connection. Because of this Pidgin is not
>> working.
>> wlan isn't working too.
>
> eth0 and wlan0 are two different things. wlan usually means, wireless,
> and wireless have often closed source drivers. So with debian, you
> will need to enable them by yourself. Wiki and internet are full of
> informations about that, but, in short, enable contrib and non-free
> repo in your /etc/apt/sources.list, know your hardware with $lspci or
> $lsusb and you should have enough informations to discover what you
> need to install.
>
> Eth0 is usually working fine with generic, and free, versions, this is
> why it works. If your network manager gives you problem... the
> solution I took until now, which is not advised, is to only enable the
> kind of network you need.
>
> In few words, this consist about using commands like #ifdown
> <eth0/wlan0>, #ifdown <eth0/wlan0> and editing the file named
> /etc/network/interfaces.
> Of course, this is not an automated solution, but it avoids the use of
> any software taking decisions for you.
the laptop and nothing worked anymore. Than I set up eth0 (I can use the
www with iceweasel or aptitude) but wlan0 doesn't works and the network
manager meant I have no connection, I think thats the reason, why pidgin
isn't connecting.
>
>> 3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
>
> If it was working previously, I think yes. 32 bit will only be slower.
> I can see no interest of using 32b when you can use 64b. I might be
> wrong, so, please, explain me why you switched back to 32B?
I had an cd for wheezy with 32bit here laying around and had used it. I
>> 3: shall i reinstall the 64bit version?
>
> If it was working previously, I think yes. 32 bit will only be slower.
> I can see no interest of using 32b when you can use 64b. I might be
> wrong, so, please, explain me why you switched back to 32B?
wasn't thinking about that it is a 32bit verison.
>
>
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>
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Dom
Dec 23, 2012, 7:10:02 AM12/23/12
to
But this is moot if you are going to install the 64 bit version from
scratch.
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Ralf Mardorf
Dec 23, 2012, 7:10:02 AM12/23/12
to
On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 01:57 +0100, berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
> > And how can I delete it?
>
> Le 23.12.2012 00:51, Thore a écrit :
> > And how can I delete it?
>
> and if everything works correctly, remove the other one.
You can remove other kernels, by removing them using the package
management. I suspect you're using GRUB 2, if so you need to read how to
edit GRUB 2 configurations, or you simply edit grub.cfg.
I edit grub.cfg, to get rid of tons of unneeded code and bad entries.
There e.g. isn't the need to keep the thousand lines at the beginning
inside grub.cfg.
My does look like this:
$ cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg
set timeout=8
set default='0'; if [ x"$default" = xsaved ]; then load_env; set default="$saved_entry"; fi
set color_normal='light-blue/black'; set color_highlight='light-cyan/blue'
menuentry "FreeBSD"{
set root=(hd0,msdos1)
chainloader +1
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu Quantal, kernel 3.6.5-rt14' {
set root='(hd1,9)'; set legacy_hdbias='0'
legacy_kernel '/boot/vmlinuz-3.6.5-rt14' '/boot/vmlinuz-3.6.5-rt14' 'root=/dev/sdb9' 'ro' 'quiet' ''
legacy_initrd '/boot/initrd.img-3.6.5-rt14' '/boot/initrd.img-3.6.5-rt14'
}
[Followed by many other Linux, since I've got many kernels and many
distros installed]
I could remove something from the above entries, resp. I should
completely re-edit them, but I kept it from a menu.lst to grub.cfg
conversion, because I've got many entries it's not "simply remove the
unneeded entry", I would have to do it for perhaps around 20 kernels, so
it's work I'll do some day, when I've got nothing else to do.
Regards,
Ralf
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Ralf Mardorf
Dec 23, 2012, 7:20:01 AM12/23/12
to
On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 23:08 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> it
> even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> willing to test that myself. :)
This will not remove "recovery" entries for installed kernels. You need
> "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> it
> even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> willing to test that myself. :)
to edit GRUB 2 configurations or directly edit the grub.cfg.
After editing grub.cfg the automation to generate a grub.cfg should be
disabled, or at least a backup is needed to restore it, after e.g.
kernel updates.
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Thore
Dec 23, 2012, 7:20:02 AM12/23/12
to
but I'm thinking about using ubuntu, it was a great expierience as I tried.
I'm using debian at my server and hove no problems with the console but
the desktop is a rpblem for me.
I need the system next week, and I don't know wether I can set it up
ready for using.
There is ubuntu easier
But there I want to go are a lot of people who could help me.
What shall I do?
regards
Thore
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Ralf Mardorf
Dec 23, 2012, 8:00:01 AM12/23/12
to
On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 13:11 +0100, Thore wrote:
> What shall I do?
If you install Ubuntu, than don't install Quantal. Use the LTS, Precise.
I don't know the state of Wheezy, others on that list will report you,
if it's better to install Squeeze or Wheezy, assumed you'll install
Debian.
If it's "easier" and more or less stable to install + to use distro x or
distro y depends to your skills, to the usage, your hardware etc., last
but not least this will differ for releases of distros.
YMMV!
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> What shall I do?
If you install Ubuntu, than don't install Quantal. Use the LTS, Precise.
I don't know the state of Wheezy, others on that list will report you,
if it's better to install Squeeze or Wheezy, assumed you'll install
Debian.
If it's "easier" and more or less stable to install + to use distro x or
distro y depends to your skills, to the usage, your hardware etc., last
but not least this will differ for releases of distros.
YMMV!
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Chris Bannister
Dec 23, 2012, 8:30:03 AM12/23/12
to
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:57:09PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 23:08 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> > it
> > even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> > willing to test that myself. :)
>
> This will not remove "recovery" entries for installed kernels. You need
> to edit GRUB 2 configurations or directly edit the grub.cfg.
>
> After editing grub.cfg the automation to generate a grub.cfg should be
> disabled, or at least a backup is needed to restore it, after e.g.
> kernel updates.
Ummm, no. dpkg triggers still operate as per normal.
> On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 23:08 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> > it
> > even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> > willing to test that myself. :)
>
> This will not remove "recovery" entries for installed kernels. You need
> to edit GRUB 2 configurations or directly edit the grub.cfg.
>
> After editing grub.cfg the automation to generate a grub.cfg should be
> disabled, or at least a backup is needed to restore it, after e.g.
> kernel updates.
There is no need to edit anything!
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Ralf Mardorf
Dec 23, 2012, 9:00:01 AM12/23/12
to
On Mon, 2012-12-24 at 02:13 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:57:09PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 23:08 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> > > it
> > > even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> > > willing to test that myself. :)
> >
> > This will not remove "recovery" entries for installed kernels. You need
> > to edit GRUB 2 configurations or directly edit the grub.cfg.
> >
> > After editing grub.cfg the automation to generate a grub.cfg should be
> > disabled, or at least a backup is needed to restore it, after e.g.
> > kernel updates.
>
> Ummm, no. dpkg triggers still operate as per normal.
> There is no need to edit anything!
So a default only add
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:57:09PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sun, 2012-12-23 at 23:08 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > "dpkg --purge <linux-image-blah-blah-blah>" works just fine. I think
> > > it
> > > even refuses if it is the one you booted from, but sorry, I'm not
> > > willing to test that myself. :)
> >
> > This will not remove "recovery" entries for installed kernels. You need
> > to edit GRUB 2 configurations or directly edit the grub.cfg.
> >
> > After editing grub.cfg the automation to generate a grub.cfg should be
> > disabled, or at least a backup is needed to restore it, after e.g.
> > kernel updates.
>
> Ummm, no. dpkg triggers still operate as per normal.
> There is no need to edit anything!
Foo Kernel_version
and there are no additional entries such as
Foo Kernel_version (Recovery, Failsafe, Singleuser or what ever)
by default?
IIUC the OP wants to get rid of those "Recovery" entries.
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Dec 23, 2012, 11:40:02 AM12/23/12
to
> Both entrys have a pae, my question is: can (and how can) I remove
> the ...-2-686-pae entry?
As many other people said, your usual package manager is able to remove
> the ...-2-686-pae entry?
kernels. Aptitude will warn you if you are removing the last kernel of
your system. And it will update grub accordingly. As others I guess :)
I use #ifdown <network> and #ifup <network> to be sure to have only one
up at a time, and I use #vim /etc/network/interfaces to add wireless
networks, by adding following lines:
wpa-ssid <router-name>
wpa-key <the key :) >
It's not exactly something I would recommend to users, but it works
well. I simply should do a script to switch wireless networks in the
interfaces file, because commenting and decommenting lines is boring :)
About your question to switch to Ubuntu, well... if you do not want to
spend time maybe it is better, I do not know, I tried it many years ago
but did not liked it. But I love to tinker, so it was obvious that I
could not like a distro where it is hard to do fun things like
destroying the system :D
If you stay with Debian, in my opinion, debian testing (Wheezy, IIRC,
never sure of the distro names...) is good enough for a normal user. For
production servers, I would prefer the stable Debian.
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Thore
Dec 23, 2012, 2:50:01 PM12/23/12
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you are right a system which is hard to destroy is boring.
I will try it out with an 64bit system,
maybe it works with it,if not there would be ubuntu.
My server isn't an production server and when it could be used as an
production Server wheezy is stable.
So I will start the installation now and hopefully the kernels are away
regards
Thore
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Thore
Dec 23, 2012, 2:50:01 PM12/23/12
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system ;-)
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Dec 23, 2012, 4:20:01 PM12/23/12
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x-terminal-emulator with the su command :)
I've destroyed and repaired my debian often enough to know that when
you love tinkering the best DE you can find is the one you will build.
To do that, you just need a window manager and something to run
commands. This last software can be a terminal emulator, a menu
software, or, more often, both of them, a text editor and a package
manager. When you have them, find a web browser, and a software for each
action you are doing on your computer. Usually, peoples like to have a
file manager, a music player, a network manager, plus various tools
according to what they are doing (in my situation, a C++ compiler, a
version manager for source code, a resource monitor, a pdf-viewer, an
image editor - xpaint is nice, but could be more user friendly with a
single window - a calculator...). Thinking about that, a DE is not so
many softwares... I wonder if there is a guide to "build" our own DE.
Could be a nice thing to write!
For your kernel problem, just try to start aptitude in a terminal,
without argument, and search for "linux-image-" and you will be able to
remove kernels you do not want.
Thinking about destroying the system... I remember I said I would
install gentoo during my holydays ... or build a kernel from scratch,
that's a nice exercise too. I love holidays :D
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Thore
Dec 23, 2012, 6:10:02 PM12/23/12
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I installed debian in 64 bit with GNOME now was very/extremely schocked
and install now kde.
I needed 20 minutes to shut down the system. I didn't found the button
and needed 10 minutes more for the terminal shutdown (i didn't found the
terminal)
This was the worst experience I've ever made.
but the entrys were away and the networkmanager worked. I put the
firmware for the wlan card on an USB Drive and the system found them.
So hopefully my networks problems would be away under kde.
If not i ask again.
for a kernel my time and my experience are not enough. I had enough
problems with my server.
regards
Thore
>
>
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>
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Dec 23, 2012, 6:40:02 PM12/23/12
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rejected by it's old users. I think this reason would be a very good one
to simply copy windows 's DE, if we want to have more users (but do we
really want that? I'm still unsure, there are good pros and cons),
because it would allow new users to keep their habits in a first time.
Then, when the first time is passed, they could try other stuff... or
not. On my side, I've more or less always used command line tools, since
my childhood, so it is not so surprising that I now mostly use it, with
only few softwares.
I do not know what kind of interface your are accustomed to, but you
could try XFCE or LXDE.
In fact, you could also install more than one, and try them from time
to time, in the login manager, you can often choose the DE when you
installed more than one. That's a convenient feature for people who like
to try different things, and when you have build your opinion, just
remove DE you do not like is really easy.
In short, just take the DE which fit your needs. I would say that the
Big Two, Gnome and KDE, are made for users which have very few time to
invest in their system, and do not want to even install new softwares.
They are near the complete OS, IMHO.
In second, you have desktops like XFCE and LXDE, which are more like
what you have with a vanilla windows: you have everything you need to
simply use a computer, but not softwares to do real tasks.
At last, you have "mad guys", which are proud to be so, which build
their environment from scratch, like me. We do not compile things by
ourselves (well... some do that, too) or learn programming, we just
accept to read documentations and software descriptions.
For that kind of people, aptitude (without arguments, the ncurses
GUI)is a powerful tool IMHO, because it is easy to use it to have a
description of installed or needed softwares. Just, install debtags
first, because it will give you some very nice hints.
OT:
I am thinking that creating a guide to select softwares people really
needs, aka, building and configuring their own "desktop environment",
understandable by people without great knowledge of computer sciences,
could be interesting.
I have noticed that there are many quality tools outside usual DEs
which interact well between them, and sounds easy enough to use when you
are accustomed to only one of them.
The problem is that I do not know where on the vast Internet such a
guide should take place, and I could not write it alone...
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Lisi Reisz
Dec 23, 2012, 6:50:02 PM12/23/12
to
On Sunday 23 December 2012 23:31:37 berenge...@neutralite.org wrote:
> I do not know what kind of interface your are accustomed to, but you
> could try XFCE or LXDE.
> In fact, you could also install more than one, and try them from time
> to time, in the login manager, you can often choose the DE when you
> installed more than one. That's a convenient feature for people who like
> to try different things, and when you have build your opinion, just
> remove DE you do not like is really easy.
>
> In short, just take the DE which fit your needs. I would say that the
> Big Two, Gnome and KDE, are made for users which have very few time to
> invest in their system, and do not want to even install new softwares.
> They are near the complete OS, IMHO.
>
> In second, you have desktops like XFCE and LXDE, which are more like
> what you have with a vanilla windows: you have everything you need to
> simply use a computer, but not softwares to do real tasks.
Don't forget the minority DEs: Mate, Cinnamon, Trinity DE etc. XFCE is more
> I do not know what kind of interface your are accustomed to, but you
> could try XFCE or LXDE.
> In fact, you could also install more than one, and try them from time
> to time, in the login manager, you can often choose the DE when you
> installed more than one. That's a convenient feature for people who like
> to try different things, and when you have build your opinion, just
> remove DE you do not like is really easy.
>
> In short, just take the DE which fit your needs. I would say that the
> Big Two, Gnome and KDE, are made for users which have very few time to
> invest in their system, and do not want to even install new softwares.
> They are near the complete OS, IMHO.
>
> In second, you have desktops like XFCE and LXDE, which are more like
> what you have with a vanilla windows: you have everything you need to
> simply use a computer, but not softwares to do real tasks.
by way of being a complete running system than you credit it with being. But
I agree that nothing is as top-heavy as KDE 4 and GNOME 3. Since GNOME 2 and
KDE 3 still have their devoted fans, one needs to specify the numbers.
Lisi
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berenge...@neutralite.org
Dec 23, 2012, 7:30:01 PM12/23/12
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becoming worse since gnome 3 has been released. I was not a linux user
when KDE 4 was.
My intention was not to enumerate all DEs, but to give a rough idea of
existing things in that domain.
I mean, I wanted to enumerate easy to distinguished categories of DE,
which is obviously not easy (and I guess I should avoid to do that,
since I'm a true linux user since only 2-3 years, but... I can not,
sounds like I have a very big ego, so thanks to every one which said me
that I'm wrong, and same for every one which will say the same in
future, you will notice that it will happen quite often :D ).
How could we do a distinction between the DE you have quoted, and XFCE
or LXDE, what are their differences? They probably embed more or less
features, but is there is an obvious line to make a category? I do not
think so.
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Chris Bannister
Dec 23, 2012, 8:50:01 PM12/23/12
to
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 02:33:54PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-12-24 at 02:13 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >
> > Ummm, no. dpkg triggers still operate as per normal.
> > There is no need to edit anything!
>
> So a default only add
>
> Foo Kernel_version
>
> and there are no additional entries such as
>
> Foo Kernel_version (Recovery, Failsafe, Singleuser or what ever)
>
> by default?
I'm not sure what you mean, but there is a Recovery stanza, yes ...
> On Mon, 2012-12-24 at 02:13 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >
> > Ummm, no. dpkg triggers still operate as per normal.
> > There is no need to edit anything!
>
> So a default only add
>
> Foo Kernel_version
>
> and there are no additional entries such as
>
> Foo Kernel_version (Recovery, Failsafe, Singleuser or what ever)
>
> by default?
> IIUC the OP wants to get rid of those "Recovery" entries.
My understanding is that the OP has two kernels installed and wants to
remove one of them.
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"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Lisi Reisz
Dec 24, 2012, 3:10:02 AM12/24/12
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On Monday 24 December 2012 01:27:57 Chris Bannister wrote:
> My understanding is that the OP has two kernels installed and wants to
> remove one of them.
+1
> My understanding is that the OP has two kernels installed and wants to
> remove one of them.
Lisi
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