i386 or amd64?
Hugo Vanwoerkom
I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
45W 65nm Dual-Core.
Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a
current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
So I found this:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
which lists 6 options:
1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
2) Install amd64 version and use that.
3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
(iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
programs and all 64bit.
5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
I would prefer 1) but how does one do that?
Hugo
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian.org
Ron Johnson
Hash: SHA1
On 07/13/08 10:05, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
> albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
> 45W 65nm Dual-Core.
>
> Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a
> current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
>
> So I found this:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
>
> which lists 6 options:
>
> 1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
> 2) Install amd64 version and use that.
> 3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
> amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
> (iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
> interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
> 4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
> programs and all 64bit.
> 5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
> with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
> 6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
>
> I would prefer 1) but how does one do that?
Just install with the i386 disk. The CPU will detect that 32-bit
binaries want to boot, and will switch the system into 32-bit mode.
- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Nuno Magalhães
wanna keep i386 stuff maybe have a chroot for the only-32bit (nonfree)
stuff?
--
Nuno Magalhães
Hugo Vanwoerkom
Could I boot with the mondo restore DVD that has been created with the
i386 system?
Hugo Vanwoerkom
> I have an Asus mobo with an Athlon64, so i installed amd64. If you
> wanna keep i386 stuff maybe have a chroot for the only-32bit (nonfree)
> stuff?
>
I could do that later, but I want to start off with pure i386 that I
already have. I am on a dialup modem and installing takes 3 days or so.
David Fox
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe, albeit
> with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz 45W 65nm
> Dual-Core.
You should be able to keep the current installation and run everything
32-bit, but as a recent convert to amd64 (here, an ecs 6100-pm-m
motherboard, I elected to switch to ubuntu :) amd64. Partly due to a
disk provisioning problem and a little lack of foresight, I suppose -
my oldest and most smallest disk on lenny was an old 1.6 gig maxtor,
and it held /var, and there simply wasn't enough room (or ide headers)
to put all 3 ide drives in, plus 2 new sata devices.
For the stuff that I do, amd64 works better. Most everything is 64
bit, but of course there are those things that are only available in
32-bit user space. Fortunately, I've found that they all run fine with
the intel32 lib packages installed, and there's little reason if any
to set up a chroot. Not that I've found, anyway.
And, I paid for the extra bits, so why not use them?
> Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a current
> i386 system on it and then go on from there.
You could - what prevents you from booting off your existing media?
Damon L. Chesser
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
> albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
> 45W 65nm Dual-Core.
>
> current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
>
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
>
> which lists 6 options:
>
> 1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
> 2) Install amd64 version and use that.
> 3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
> amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
> (iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
> interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
> 4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
> programs and all 64bit.
> 5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
> with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
> 6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
>
> I would prefer 1) but how does one do that?
>
Hugo,
go here: http://www.debian.org/CD/http-ftp/ look at the links for the archs,
select i386. Install. You are done.
Note: I do not understand the reluctance of not using a 64bit OS at this
time. I do hear that java/flash are not yet fully working on 64bit, but I
don't ever see any issues with it. I do not code, perhaps this is where
people see problems with it? I don't know. I run iceweasel/FF, have
non-free flash, swfdec-mozilla, and I install Sun JRE (allthough right now I
am using default-JRE as Sun is not installable for me in Sid as of
yesterday).
For just browsing the web and doing web things, this has worked for at least a
year, maybe two.
Just my two cents. Get the installer image for i386 and that will be a 32bit
OS.
HTH
--
Damon L. Chesser
da...@damtek.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dchesser
Hugo Vanwoerkom
The only reluctance is time: to get an i386 system off the ground I just
restore, to get an amd64 system installed takes 3 days because I am on a
dialup modem.
Hugo
Ron Johnson
Hash: SHA1
On 07/13/08 10:29, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
[snip]
>
> Note: I do not understand the reluctance of not using a 64bit OS at this
> time. I do hear that java/flash are not yet fully working on 64bit, but I
> don't ever see any issues with it. I do not code, perhaps this is where
> people see problems with it? I don't know. I run iceweasel/FF, have
> non-free flash, swfdec-mozilla, and I install Sun JRE (allthough right now I
> am using default-JRE as Sun is not installable for me in Sid as of
> yesterday).
swfdec-mozilla works on "all" Flash videos?
And what JRE is it that you use?
- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Hugo Vanwoerkom
Nothing: that is what I would do: boot with the mondo restore DVD and
install the SATA disk that I have in the i386 system.
Hugo
Nigel Henry
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
> albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
> 45W 65nm Dual-Core.
>
> Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a
> current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
>
> So I found this:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
>
> which lists 6 options:
>
> 1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
> 2) Install amd64 version and use that.
> 3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
> amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
> (iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
> interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
> 4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
> programs and all 64bit.
> 5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
> with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
> 6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
>
> I would prefer 1) but how does one do that?
>
> Hugo
Hi Hugo. Just go ahead and install the i386 version of your distro. It will
work with the 64bit processor with no problems.
I recently built a new machine, using an Asus M2N-X Plus mobo, with an AMD
Athlon64 3800 AM2 2.4GHz processor. I've installed i386 (32bit) versions of
Archlinux, Kubuntu Gutsy Gibbon, Fedora 8, and Kubuntu Breezy (upgraded to
Dapper) on it, and no problemos. I've got Sarge, Etch, and Lenny on another
machine, and they were all upgraded from my valuable Woody 3.0r2 cdroms, and
don't want to go through that hassle of upgrading to Etch from Woody on the
new machine. I've just found a supplier in France that has 3DVD sets for Etch
for 15€, so I'll get those, and save a bit of upgrading time, when I add Etch
to the new machine.
If you have sufficient harddrive space, why not install both the i386, and the
x86_64 versions, and you can compare them. I think for a 64 bit install there
are some packages (probably 3rd party ones) that you have to go through the
hoops a bit, to get them to work, which is probably why I've stayed with
i386.
When AMD brought out their first 64 bit processor (in 2003 IIRC) there was
much marketing hype as to how superior it was compared to 32 bit processors,
but I've also read that there is not a lot of difference between i386
(32bit), and x86_64, but having no experience in comparing the two, I'm
simply going on what I've heard.
Sunday afternoon/evening rambling over, and now back to mowing the grass. My
dog's looking at me in an expectant way, as he has a bunch of fun in the
garden when I'm mowing.
All the best.
Nigel.
Ron Johnson
Hash: SHA1
On 07/13/08 10:42, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
[snip]
> The only reluctance is time: to get an i386 system off the ground I just
> restore, to get an amd64 system installed takes 3 days because I am on a
> dialup modem.
Find a vendor which sells the DVDs?
Ask one of us to burn a DVD for you?
- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Ron Johnson
Hash: SHA1
On 07/13/08 10:23, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Ron Johnson wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> Just install with the i386 disk. The CPU will detect that 32-bit
>> binaries want to boot, and will switch the system into 32-bit mode.
>>
>
> Could I boot with the mondo restore DVD that has been created with the
> i386 system?
Sure.
- --
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
"Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
York is doomed."
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Mark Allums
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
> albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
> 45W 65nm Dual-Core.
>
> Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a
> current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
>
> So I found this:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
>
> which lists 6 options:
>
> 1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
> 2) Install amd64 version and use that.
> 3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
> amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
> (iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
> interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
> 4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
> programs and all 64bit.
> 5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
> with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
> 6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
>
> I would prefer 1) but how does one do that?
>
> Hugo
>
Just go AMD64 and be done with it. You get all the memory you can
stand, and can still run nearly all 32-bit software with a little
planning ahead. I have no problems. Use a chroot in those rare
instances when you absolutely must run a 32 bit kernel. Which will be
very rare.
Mark Allums
Mark Allums
> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
>> <snip>
>> The only reluctance is time: to get an i386 system off the ground I
>> just restore, to get an amd64 system installed takes 3 days because I
>> am on a dialup modem.
>>
>> Hugo
>
> has high speed DSL and borrow it. Get the daily build of lenny/testing
> on DVD. Takes about two hours for the first DVD at 6.0 Mb/s. Allow
> about 12 hours for all five DVDs. Say thank you to your friend, and
> don't forget the case of beer/nice bottle of something nice.
I meant *weekly* build, of course.
Mark Allums
Mark Allums
> <snip>
> The only reluctance is time: to get an i386 system off the ground I just
> restore, to get an amd64 system installed takes 3 days because I am on a
> dialup modem.
>
> Hugo
This is the time to call in a favor and go over to someone's house that
has high speed DSL and borrow it. Get the daily build of lenny/testing
on DVD. Takes about two hours for the first DVD at 6.0 Mb/s. Allow
about 12 hours for all five DVDs. Say thank you to your friend, and
don't forget the case of beer/nice bottle of something nice.
Mark Allums
Damon L. Chesser
> On 07/13/08 10:29, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > Note: I do not understand the reluctance of not using a 64bit OS at this
> > time. I do hear that java/flash are not yet fully working on 64bit, but
> > I don't ever see any issues with it. I do not code, perhaps this is
> > where people see problems with it? I don't know. I run iceweasel/FF,
> > have non-free flash, swfdec-mozilla, and I install Sun JRE (allthough
> > right now I am using default-JRE as Sun is not installable for me in Sid
> > as of yesterday).
>
> swfdec-mozilla works on "all" Flash videos?
>
> And what JRE is it that you use?
>
> Ron Johnson, Jr.
> Jefferson LA USA
>
> "Kittens give Morbo gas. In lighter news, the city of New New
> York is doomed."
well, it works on all flash videos I try to view and at this point, the jre I
use, and I quote, "default-jre" and I installed "java-gcj-compat-plugin" and
this allow me to go to Sun's site and "test" my java, which passes. Prior to
yesterday, when my system crashed, I used Sun-java6-jre, but at this time,
there is a circular dep issue stopping the install of that (jre deps on bin,
which deps on i32-java6-jre which deps on sun-java6-jre, same with java5.)
s. keeling
>
> On 07/13/08 10:29, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Note: I do not understand the reluctance of not using a 64bit OS at this
> > time. I do hear that java/flash are not yet fully working on 64bit, but I
> > don't ever see any issues with it. I do not code, perhaps this is where
>
I find it locks up iceweasel more often than not, but this is etch here.
--
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
- - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.
Damon L. Chesser
> Ron Johnson <ron.l....@cox.net>:
> > On 07/13/08 10:29, Damon L. Chesser wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> > > Note: I do not understand the reluctance of not using a 64bit OS at
> > > this time. I do hear that java/flash are not yet fully working on
> > > 64bit, but I don't ever see any issues with it. I do not code, perhaps
> > > this is where
> >
> > swfdec-mozilla works on "all" Flash videos?
>
> I find it locks up iceweasel more often than not, but this is etch here.
you're, like, so behind! Seriously, it *used* to do that here. Now
sometimes, I have to close all my FF to look at a site because a prior
viewing of another flash video has somehow "locked" up the flash player, but
the browser works just fine. The indication is you don't see the video or
any controls, just a blank space. Aside from that, I see no issues so far.
YMMV, I guess it deps on what *bad* site you go to and what *bad* standards
they are not adhering to.
>
>
> --
> Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
> (*) http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292
> - - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html Please, don't Cc: me.
--
Hugo Vanwoerkom
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 07/13/08 10:42, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> [snip]
>> The only reluctance is time: to get an i386 system off the ground I just
>> restore, to get an amd64 system installed takes 3 days because I am on a
>> dialup modem.
>
> Find a vendor which sells the DVDs?
>
> Ask one of us to burn a DVD for you?
>
Now there's an idea! Let me try that again (buying that is) but in
Mexico previous results were not promising.
Hugo
Peet Grobler
> Hi,
>
> I am about to buy the mobo that Doug Tutty has: Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe,
> albeit with a more moderate AM2 processor: AMD Athlon X2 4050e 2.1GHz
> 45W 65nm Dual-Core.
>
> Question I have is what do I run on it, I would prefer restoring a
> current i386 system on it and then go on from there.
I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to run an i386 system on 64-bit
architecture. 64-bit is so much faster. Why not make the most of the
processor?
> So I found this:
>
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-amd64/2005/07/msg00311.html
>
> which lists 6 options:
>
> 1) Install i386 version and use that using 32bit kernel.
> 2) Install amd64 version and use that.
> 3) Install i386 with amd64 kernel package (i386 sarge includes that) and
> amd64-libs to allow running some 64bit programs and most 32bit
> (iptables/alsa-utils and other things that talk to some kernel
> interfaces have to be 64bit when used with a 64bit kernel I believe).
> 4) Install amd64 version and ia32-libs to allow running some 32bit
> programs and all 64bit.
> 5) Install i386 with an amd64 kernel package and a 64bit chroot to play
> with full 64bit stuff in. (I use this one at the moment).
> 6) Install amd64 with a i386 chroot to run 32bit packages in.
I have a combination of 4 and 6. 4 works mostly, but some things (in my
case skype) just won't work. So I had to resort to installing a chroot
to run that. If you do that - use schroot! Using that I can just run
/usr/bin/skype (script that executes schroot). Works like a charm.
--
Peet Grobler
pe...@hivemind.net
Sjoerd Hardeman
(http://www.skype.com/go/getskype-linux-static), which has all library
dependencies compiled in.
Sjoerd
Mumia W..
>
> I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to run an i386 system on 64-bit
> architecture. 64-bit is so much faster. Why not make the most of the
> processor?
He has said so many times. He does not want to download a hundred
megabytes of packages over dialup.
Anyway, 64-bit is so much faster for what--viewing e-mail? Browsing
online forums? Not-viewing the screensaver for 20 minutes while you
leave the computer to pick up the snail mail?
Any modern computer is easily 50 times more powerful that what most of
us need.
Eugene V. Lyubimkin
Hash: SHA1
Mumia W.. wrote:
> On 07/14/2008 02:33 AM, Peet Grobler wrote:
> Anyway, 64-bit is so much faster for what--viewing e-mail? Browsing
> online forums? Not-viewing the screensaver for 20 minutes while you
> leave the computer to pick up the snail mail?
>
> Any modern computer is easily 50 times more powerful that what most of
> us need.
What browser do you use? :)
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Peet Grobler
> Anyway, 64-bit is so much faster for what--viewing e-mail? Browsing
> online forums? Not-viewing the screensaver for 20 minutes while you
> leave the computer to pick up the snail mail?
Compiling custom programs. Compiling the kernel. Startup times on
applications are reduced (in theory at least).
The same reason you're not running an 80386-compiled kernel on your
machine. To make it faster.
> Any modern computer is easily 50 times more powerful that what most of
> us need.
Most of us, yes. All of us, no.
--
Peet Grobler
pe...@hivemind.net
Damon L. Chesser
you *can* install skype i386 with the dpkg -i --force-architecture option.
You will get up to three dependency issues. Find those .debs from
debian.org, download them, dpkg -i --force-architecture them, one at a time,
re-install skype. Repeat until the deps are all met and the packages
installs.
Pretty? No. Works? Yes. Make sure you read dpkg --force-help and understand
the ramifications before doing this. Do NOT take my word for this. If your
box breaks, it means nothing to me. In my experience, you have three, maybe
four i386 packages installed on your amd64 OS. For me, this has not caused
any issues.
Of course, as someone said, you can install the static files (this is new to
me) and my skype file is version 1.4.
Celejar
Peet Grobler <pe...@hivemind.net> wrote:
> Mumia W.. wrote:
> > Anyway, 64-bit is so much faster for what--viewing e-mail? Browsing
> > online forums? Not-viewing the screensaver for 20 minutes while you
> > leave the computer to pick up the snail mail?
>
> Compiling custom programs. Compiling the kernel. Startup times on
> applications are reduced (in theory at least).
My recollindex jobs.
> Most of us, yes. All of us, no.
I would say, what most of us need most of the time.
> Peet Grobler
Celejar
--
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