How to investigate sudden shutdown?

Tobias Diekershoff

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Dec 14, 2022, 2:30:06 AM12/14/22

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Hey everyone,

perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
indication to do so.

It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.

Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!

Thanks for reading, have a nice day!
Tobias

--
Bōsī se sȳrī glaesās

Alexander V. Makartsev

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Dec 14, 2022, 3:50:06 AM12/14/22

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On 14.12.2022 12:22, Tobias Diekershoff wrote:

Hey everyone,

perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
indication to do so.

Does it power off unexpectedly while you actively working on it, or you just see it powered off when you check it after a while?
These kinds of symptoms are hard to diagnose and usually indicate a hardware problem.
Please, give us more information about your laptop. You can use "inxi" utility for that:
# inxi -a -v8 -z -za

You can send the output from "inxi" to paste service[1] and provide us with just a link to it in next mail.

Is laptop's battery(-ies) in good shape, i.e. it can sustain laptop at least for a few minutes with PSU disconnected?
If battery is dead, disconnect the battery and try to reproduce the issue with only PSU connected.

It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.

Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!

A good place to start is to check journald logs for previous boot:
# journalctl --boot -1

"-1" is an index, so "0" is current boot, "-2" is two boots prior, etc.

[1] https://paste.debian.net/

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

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⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

to...@tuxteam.de

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Dec 14, 2022, 4:10:05 AM12/14/22

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On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 01:40:06PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 14.12.2022 12:22, Tobias Diekershoff wrote:
> > Hey everyone,
> >
> > perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
> > so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
> > desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
> > indication to do so.
> Does it power off unexpectedly while you actively working on it, or you just
> see it powered off when you check it after a while?

As another avenue: have you tried to run something else (e.g. memtest) on the
machine for a while?

Cheers
--
t

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David Wright

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Dec 14, 2022, 10:30:06 AM12/14/22

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On Wed 14 Dec 2022 at 08:22:01 (+0100), Tobias Diekershoff wrote:
>
> perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
> so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
> desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
> indication to do so.

How old is the machine?
Spinning rust or SSD?
How have the battery and power handling been performing recently?
What type of connector is used for the AC power adapter?

> It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
> unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.
>
> Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
> very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!

Do shutdowns occur only on AC, or only on battery, or both?
Do the shutdowns coincide with moments of high load?
Do they occur when you adjust the angle of the screen?
Do they occur when the machine is mechanically undisturbed,
ie when it's sitting on a table?

By now you've probably surmised that my suspicions would fall
on the power handling. That's from my experience running laptops.

Cheers,
David.

Tobias Diekershoff

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Dec 15, 2022, 9:50:06 AM12/15/22

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Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Dezember 2022 um 10:00 Uhr

Good thought! I had almost forgot about memtest... will try that when there is some
time to spare to have it running for a while.

Thanks!
Tobias

Tobias Diekershoff

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Dec 15, 2022, 10:20:05 AM12/15/22

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Hey David!

> > perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
> > so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
> > desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
> > indication to do so.
>
> How old is the machine?

About 5 years

> Spinning rust or SSD?

SSD

> How have the battery and power handling been performing recently?

Well, no problems there.

> What type of connector is used for the AC power adapter?

It's a German Schuko connector.

> > It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
> > unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.
> >
> > Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
> > very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!
>
> Do shutdowns occur only on AC, or only on battery, or both?

Both, though the notebook runs on AC most of the time.

> Do the shutdowns coincide with moments of high load?

Not that I remember.

> Do they occur when you adjust the angle of the screen?

No.

> Do they occur when the machine is mechanically undisturbed,
> ie when it's sitting on a table?

Yes

Thanks!
Tobias

Tobias Diekershoff

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Dec 15, 2022, 10:30:05 AM12/15/22

to

Hey Alexander!

> > perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
> > so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
> > desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
> > indication to do so.
>
> Does it power off unexpectedly while you actively working on it, or you just see it powered off when you check it after a while?

Yes to both.

> These kinds of symptoms are hard to diagnose and usually indicate a hardware problem.
> Please, give us more information about your laptop. You can use "inxi" utility for that:
> # inxi -a -v8 -z -za
>
> You can send the output from "inxi" to paste service[1] and provide us with just a link to it in next mail.

Here is the output
https://paste.debian.net/hidden/b7901559/

> Is laptop's battery(-ies) in good shape, i.e. it can sustain laptop at least for a few minutes with PSU disconnected?

Yes, the batteries last for at least 3-4 hours still.

> If battery is dead, disconnect the battery and try to reproduce the issue with only PSU connected.
>
> > It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
> > unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.
> >
> > Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
> > very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!
> A good place to start is to check journald logs for previous boot:
> # journalctl --boot -1

Thanks for that hint, I'll have a look when the shutdown happens next time. Right now I don't have the time to figure out which last boot process was the last that failed ;-)
Tobias

David Wright

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Dec 15, 2022, 11:20:05 AM12/15/22

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On Thu 15 Dec 2022 at 16:12:32 (+0100), Tobias Diekershoff wrote:
>
> > > perhaps someone of you can help me with tool / log file I have not investigated
> > > so far. I have a Thinkpad with Debian Bullseye on it, running KDE/Plasma as main
> > > desktop environment and from time to time it just turn off without prior
> > > indication to do so.
> >
> > How old is the machine?
>
> About 5 years

Ridiculously considered quite old for a laptop (mine are 5, 9 and 18).

> > Spinning rust or SSD?
>
> SSD
>
> > How have the battery and power handling been performing recently?
>
> Well, no problems there.
>
> > What type of connector is used for the AC power adapter?
>
> It's a German Schuko connector.

Actually I meant the other end. Mine have three different types. The
newest has USB-C. They aren't the most reliably mechanically seated.
That machine was retired from business work on account of the HDMI
socket being unreliable, but all the sockets are as bad now.

The middle one got its power through the pseudo-USB-A connector
used for a while by Lenovo. It now has to run with the weight of
the machine trapping the power cable underneath, keeping just
the right torsion on the connector.

The only one that has a reliable connector is the oldest, which uses
the age-old coaxial barrel connector. The battery is dead, but this
is the only one of the three laptops that can be used on the lap.

> > > It it not particular warm before and journalctl / dmsg logs are looking
> > > unsuspicious around these sudden shutdowns for me.
> > >
> > > Any pointer what else could be investigated (and I do realize that these are
> > > very vague symptoms) would be appreciated!
> >
> > Do shutdowns occur only on AC, or only on battery, or both?
>
> Both, though the notebook runs on AC most of the time.
>
> > Do the shutdowns coincide with moments of high load?
>
> Not that I remember.
>
> > Do they occur when you adjust the angle of the screen?
>
> No.

My deceased 2008 Dell would sometimes power off when the screen
was adjusted. Eventually the screen would blank a few seconds
after power-on, unless the machine had been left for a week or so
without power, when the screen might stay lit for a minute or two.

> > Do they occur when the machine is mechanically undisturbed,
> > ie when it's sitting on a table?
>
> Yes

Not much of a hint, from these replies, of what's causing your
problem. (I'm assuming that the symptom is sudden total power
loss, just like pulling the power plug out of a desktop PC.)

Cheers,
David.