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PC fan getting very loud
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deloptes
May 8, 2021, 5:20:04 AM5/8/21
to
Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
gets extremly noisy.
On a Fujitsu C700 with the same setup there is no such problem - although I
probably do not open these sites - but some other sites cause a lot of load
and still the fan is not getting so noisy.
Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 CPU
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 60
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz
stepping : 3
microcode : 0x28
cpu MHz : 1421.711
cache size : 4096 KB
physical id : 0
siblings : 4
core id : 1
cpu cores : 2
apicid : 3
initial apicid : 3
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 13
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca
cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx
pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl
xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl
vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 sdbg fma cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic
movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm
cpuid_fault epb invpcid_single pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow vnmi
flexpriority ept vpid ept_ad fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms
invpcid xsaveopt dtherm ida arat pln pts md_clear flush_l1d
bugs : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf
mds swapgs itlb_multihit srbds
bogomips : 5786.69
clflush size : 64
cache_alignment : 64
address sizes : 39 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
Sven Joachim
May 8, 2021, 5:30:05 AM5/8/21
to
On 2021-05-08 11:13 +0200, deloptes wrote:
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> gets extremly noisy.
Such is the modern web. :-(
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> gets extremly noisy.
> On a Fujitsu C700 with the same setup there is no such problem - although I
> probably do not open these sites - but some other sites cause a lot of load
> and still the fan is not getting so noisy.
paste. If that does not help, buy a better fan (the small form factor
limits your choices, though).
Cheers,
Sven
Michael Grant
May 8, 2021, 6:10:04 AM5/8/21
to
On Sat, May 08, 2021 at 11:23:06AM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2021-05-08 11:13 +0200, deloptes wrote:
>
> > Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> > gets extremly noisy.
>
> Such is the modern web. :-(
I also recently had something like this happen. I tried to redo the
> On 2021-05-08 11:13 +0200, deloptes wrote:
>
> > Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> > gets extremly noisy.
>
> Such is the modern web. :-(
thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help. I have
a liquid cooler on my CPU. Apparently these things get clogged up
over time. They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
cleaned) from time to time.
I replaced my cooler with a Thermaltake and I have to say my desktop
went from sounding like a jet engine to near total silence. I was
actually so surprised at first I thought it wasn't working!
I don't know if this brand is particularrly quiet or if they're all
quiet now days. However, replacing the cooler definitely helped
considerably.
Michael Grant
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 7:20:04 AM5/8/21
to
Michael Grant wrote:
> I also recently had something like this happen. I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help. I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU. Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time. They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.
>
> I replaced my cooler with a Thermaltake and I have to say my desktop
> went from sounding like a jet engine to near total silence. I was
> actually so surprised at first I thought it wasn't working!
>
> I don't know if this brand is particularrly quiet or if they're all
> quiet now days. However, replacing the cooler definitely helped
> considerably.
Thanks for the advice
> I also recently had something like this happen. I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help. I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU. Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time. They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.
>
> I replaced my cooler with a Thermaltake and I have to say my desktop
> went from sounding like a jet engine to near total silence. I was
> actually so surprised at first I thought it wasn't working!
>
> I don't know if this brand is particularrly quiet or if they're all
> quiet now days. However, replacing the cooler definitely helped
> considerably.
Another difference is that on the C700 I use firefox from mozilla.org while
on the ESPRIMO Q520 I seem to have installed firefox-esr.
Also on the ESPRIMO Q520 skype uses 50% CPU and on the C700 5% :/
very odd - I wonder if it is really the Coller Fan or something else there
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 7:30:04 AM5/8/21
to
deloptes wrote:
> Another difference is that on the C700 I use firefox from mozilla.org
> while on the ESPRIMO Q520 I seem to have installed firefox-esr.
>
> Also on the ESPRIMO Q520 skype uses 50% CPU and on the C700 5% :/
>
Turned out when I was monitoring they were using skype so it can be ruled
> Another difference is that on the C700 I use firefox from mozilla.org
> while on the ESPRIMO Q520 I seem to have installed firefox-esr.
>
> Also on the ESPRIMO Q520 skype uses 50% CPU and on the C700 5% :/
>
out as source of the issue
> very odd - I wonder if it is really the Coller Fan or something else there
mozilla firefox 82.x that I have installed on the C700
Michael Grant
May 8, 2021, 7:30:04 AM5/8/21
to
> You had some bad liquid cooler then, or damaged water pump. I have AIO
> liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
> 4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
> either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
> are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
> works perfectly on its own.
My previous liquid cooler was a Corsair and it failed after about 5 or
6 years. And yes, I highly suspect it was in the water pump, the
blades getting gummed up or something over the years it was in
operation which was pretty much 24x7.
> liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
> 4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
> either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
> are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
> works perfectly on its own.
My previous liquid cooler was a Corsair and it failed after about 5 or
6 years. And yes, I highly suspect it was in the water pump, the
blades getting gummed up or something over the years it was in
operation which was pretty much 24x7.
piorunz
May 8, 2021, 7:30:04 AM5/8/21
to
On 08/05/2021 11:06, Michael Grant wrote:
> I also recently had something like this happen. I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help. I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU. Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time. They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.
> I also recently had something like this happen. I tried to redo the
> thermal paste between the CPU and cooler but it did not help. I have
> a liquid cooler on my CPU. Apparently these things get clogged up
> over time. They need to be replaced (or taken apart carefully and
> cleaned) from time to time.
You had some bad liquid cooler then, or damaged water pump. I have AIO
liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
works perfectly on its own.
--
liquid cooler from Corsair, bought it together with Ryzen 95W CPU about
4 years ago, haven't reapplied paste since then. No cleaning done
either, apart from de-dusting case every 6 months or so. Temperatures
are ideal, under Linux I have no control over 2 AIO fans, but everything
works perfectly on its own.
With kindest regards, piorunz.
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
Joe
May 8, 2021, 8:30:05 AM5/8/21
to
On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
> fan gets extremly noisy.
Is the fan actually louder than it used to be on the same load? Many
deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
> fan gets extremly noisy.
fans, and not just the cheap ones, are 'lubricated for life', where
'life' means 'until the lubricant dries up'.
It's a pain doing anything about this, as it is almost always necessary
to remove the rotor to add more oil, and this are usually secured with a
tiny plastic split washer which disappears very easily. For that
matter, the metal circlips on the more expensive ones also disappear
easily...
--
Joe
piorunz
May 8, 2021, 9:10:05 AM5/8/21
to
On 08/05/2021 10:13, deloptes wrote:
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> gets extremly noisy.
Have you checked CPU usage of various processes? It's not uncommon to
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the fan
> gets extremly noisy.
CPU be stuck at 100% due to various reasons, it's not limited to Firefox.
Check htop results.
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 12:00:04 PM5/8/21
to
piorunz wrote:
> Have you checked CPU usage of various processes? It's not uncommon to
> CPU be stuck at 100% due to various reasons, it's not limited to Firefox.
it is definitely the firefox on this PC
> Have you checked CPU usage of various processes? It's not uncommon to
> CPU be stuck at 100% due to various reasons, it's not limited to Firefox.
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 12:00:05 PM5/8/21
to
Joe wrote:
> Is the fan actually louder than it used to be on the same load? Many
> fans, and not just the cheap ones, are 'lubricated for life', where
> 'life' means 'until the lubricant dries up'.
>
> It's a pain doing anything about this, as it is almost always necessary
> to remove the rotor to add more oil, and this are usually secured with a
> tiny plastic split washer which disappears very easily. For that
> matter, the metal circlips on the more expensive ones also disappear
> easily...
The problem is the fan turns on to high speed and becomes very loud because
> Is the fan actually louder than it used to be on the same load? Many
> fans, and not just the cheap ones, are 'lubricated for life', where
> 'life' means 'until the lubricant dries up'.
>
> It's a pain doing anything about this, as it is almost always necessary
> to remove the rotor to add more oil, and this are usually secured with a
> tiny plastic split washer which disappears very easily. For that
> matter, the metal circlips on the more expensive ones also disappear
> easily...
the load on the CPU goes high. There is nothing wrong with this per se.
My problem is to understand why the h*ll on this machine it goes crazy. It
makes the machine unusable :/
Dan Ritter
May 8, 2021, 12:30:04 PM5/8/21
to
$10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years.
-dsr-
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 3:40:05 PM5/8/21
to
Dan Ritter wrote:
> It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for
> $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years.
>
But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in
> It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for
> $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years.
>
the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still
run at 100+ % when firefox is running.
I changed the title to make it more explanatory
Joe
May 8, 2021, 4:20:04 PM5/8/21
to
satisfaction to be gained from getting another few years from a
one-cent drop of oil.
--
Joe
Charles Curley
May 8, 2021, 5:00:05 PM5/8/21
to
> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
> fan gets extremly noisy.
I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> fan gets extremly noisy.
to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
--
Does anybody read signatures any more?
https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Bret Busby
May 8, 2021, 5:10:04 PM5/8/21
to
arguments, including with my wife, who is a software developer, who
develops web sites that I believe to be responsible.
In the original post, from memory, was stated that it happened with some
web sites, and, not with others, and, this involves an issue of system
load, due to particular web sites.
I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing
involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are
competently and benignly written, and that client side processing, is
malignant), and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code
of the web site(s) responsible for the problem.
I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client
side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a response
from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz through stuff,
on the same computer, in the same web browser.
So, I tend to have more than one web browser running at the same time,
with firefox script enabled, and, the other(s) script disabled.. On my
other system, I have firefox running, script enabled, and, Seamonkey
running, script disabled.
Another issue, depending upon the nature of the web site(s) with which
you have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some
particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against
ad blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers
of users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites
trying to steal the users' identities and personal information.
So, if you can find a trusted web site, I suggest temporarily disabling
all plugins, and, monitoring the effect, if any, on your system load - I
would not do this, with the web site(s) responsible for this problem - I
think the system load problem, could be your computer defending itself
against an attack.
I also wonder whether you notice any unexpected massive data traffic.
I have, from time to time, noticed unexpected sustained downloads, using
up tens of gigabytes of my quota.
Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages
that indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I
notice sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all
that I can do, is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and,
check to see whether it resumes the unsolicited traffic.
--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
(UTC+0800)
..............
The Wanderer
May 8, 2021, 5:20:05 PM5/8/21
to
On 2021-05-08 at 16:47, Bret Busby wrote:
> I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed
> to server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all
> processing involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web
> sites are competently and benignly written, and that client side
> processing, is malignant),
One possible (part of a) counterargument: data privacy.
> I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed
> to server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all
> processing involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web
> sites are competently and benignly written, and that client side
> processing, is malignant),
Although I no longer recall specific examples, I've run across some
Websites in the past which were - or for which it was being argued that
they should be - designed to process as much data as possible on the
client side, specifically so as to minimize the data transmitted to the
server, and thus the data which could potentially be leaked to a third
party (or even mined for value by the second party, i.e. those who
control the server involved).
That also brings up the case of minimizing the data transferred in order
to minimize pay-per-byte transfer costs (as I understand to still be the
norm in some jurisdictions) or problems with data caps (as are becoming
increasingly common in other jurisdictions), but that's less likely to
be relevant for most Websites.
> and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the
> web site(s) responsible for the problem.
>
> I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client
> side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a
> response from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz
> through stuff, on the same computer, in the same web browser.
--
The Wanderer
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
Stefan Monnier
May 8, 2021, 5:20:05 PM5/8/21
to
deloptes [2021-05-08 21:33:47] wrote:
> Dan Ritter wrote:
>> It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for
>> $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years.
> But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in
> the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still
> run at 100+ % when firefox is running.
Actually, it could be related: on some of my laptops, when the fan
> Dan Ritter wrote:
>> It is also the case that fans are cheap. Replacing one for
>> $10-20 is generally good for another 5-10 years.
> But the question is why it runs > 100% - the fan is not that important in
> the case. It could be replaced with not so loud one, but the CPU will still
> run at 100+ % when firefox is running.
wasn't working well, I often saw both 100% CPU and a loud fan at the
same time, and both were due to the CPU's temperature (the system reacts
to too-high a temperature by increasing the fan speed, of course, but
also reducing significantly the CPU's frequency which in turn can cause
it to hit 100% usage even if there isn't a terribly high load).
Stefan
Dan Ritter
May 8, 2021, 5:20:05 PM5/8/21
to
Bret Busby wrote:
>
> I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
> server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved
> with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and
> benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I
> suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s)
> responsible for the problem.
There are some reasonable cases for client-side computing. It's
>
> I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
> server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved
> with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and
> benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I
> suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s)
> responsible for the problem.
certainly badly overused.
> have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some
> particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad
> blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of
> users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying
> to steal the users' identities and personal information.
URLs whenever you have time.
> Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages that
> indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I notice
> sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all that I can do,
> is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and, check to see whether
> it resumes the unsolicited traffic.
browser.
Turns out there is an agent inside the browser that can do this:
the standard web developer tools in Firefox (right click,
Inspect, then click on the new Network tab).
More generally, you can track live network activity per
interface and per IP (with DNS resolution, if possible) with the
tool iftop. Debian packages it.
Much more generally, you can graph long term network usage with
any number of tools; I like smokeping and librenms among others.
-dsr-
Bret Busby
May 8, 2021, 5:30:04 PM5/8/21
to
On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
> deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>
I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to firefox,
> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
> deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>
to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.
Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi appears
to not have much provision for customisation.
I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.
deloptes
May 8, 2021, 5:40:04 PM5/8/21
to
Charles Curley wrote:
>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>
> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
Weaver
May 8, 2021, 5:40:04 PM5/8/21
to
It's in the repositories.
It doesn't have the same number of bells and whistles, but that's the
cludge that weighs things down.
Quite quick.
Cheers!
Harry.
--
`The first stage of fascism should more appropriately be called
Corporatism because it is a merger of State and corporate power'.
-- Mussolini
Bret Busby
May 8, 2021, 6:20:04 PM5/8/21
to
On 9/5/21 5:36 am, Weaver wrote:
> On 09-05-2021 07:03, Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
>>> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
>>> deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>>
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>>>
>>
>> I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to
>> firefox, to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.
>>
>> Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi
>> appears to not have much provision for customisation.
>>
>> I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.
>
> Try falkon instead.
> It's in the repositories.
> It doesn't have the same number of bells and whistles, but that's the
> cludge that weighs things down.
> Quite quick.
> Cheers!
>
> Harry.
>
I had a really nasty experience with falkon (from memory, falkon was
> On 09-05-2021 07:03, Bret Busby wrote:
>> On 9/5/21 4:05 am, Charles Curley wrote:
>>> On Sat, 08 May 2021 11:13:34 +0200
>>> deloptes <delo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>>
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>>>
>>
>> I also have Vivaldi running, with a few windows, in addition to
>> firefox, to investigate Vivaldi as an alternative browser.
>>
>> Vivaldi appears to not have a support mailing list, and, Vivaldi
>> appears to not have much provision for customisation.
>>
>> I also find Vivaldi to be quite slow, in comparison to firefox.
>
> Try falkon instead.
> It's in the repositories.
> It doesn't have the same number of bells and whistles, but that's the
> cludge that weighs things down.
> Quite quick.
> Cheers!
>
> Harry.
>
something else before, and it got renamed to falkon - what it was
before, I can't remember).
After a shutdown, or a crash of the application (it was the incarnation
named falkon), when I next reloaded it, it reloaded the previous session
of 23 windows, and kept reloading the session, opening hundreds of
windows, so I had to use kill -9 to stop it, or, a power off of the
computer.
I would never load it, or install it, intentionally, again, as I regard
it as too dangerous.
Alexander V. Makartsev
May 9, 2021, 3:00:05 AM5/9/21
to
I think you have unrealistic expectations.
This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to generate even more heat.
That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and cooling fan. [2]
Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload and you will have the same outcome.
[1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75045/intel-core-i5-4570t-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9y0bkHKjQ
This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to generate even more heat.
That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and cooling fan. [2]
Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload and you will have the same outcome.
[1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75045/intel-core-i5-4570t-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9y0bkHKjQ
-- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀
deloptes
May 9, 2021, 3:40:05 AM5/9/21
to
Bret Busby wrote:
> I think this goes to an issue, over which, I tend to get into heated
> arguments, including with my wife, who is a software developer, who
> develops web sites that I believe to be responsible.
>
> In the original post, from memory, was stated that it happened with some
> web sites, and, not with others, and, this involves an issue of system
> load, due to particular web sites.
>
Yes but it does not seem to be relevant, because I installed same firefox
> I think this goes to an issue, over which, I tend to get into heated
> arguments, including with my wife, who is a software developer, who
> develops web sites that I believe to be responsible.
>
> In the original post, from memory, was stated that it happened with some
> web sites, and, not with others, and, this involves an issue of system
> load, due to particular web sites.
>
on both PCs and open same number of windows with same content.
On the C700 no CPU load and on the Q520 the described behavior just few
seconds after opening the first link.
So it must be something with the Q520 specifically.
I now will install also the same kernel on both machines to see if it makes
a difference.
> I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
> server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing
> involved with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are
> competently and benignly written, and that client side processing, is
> malignant), and I suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code
> of the web site(s) responsible for the problem.
>
> I sometimes encounter web sites that are so badly and heavily client
> side weighted, that it can take five to ten minutes, to get a response
> from a key press, in a form, and, other web sites whizz through stuff,
> on the same computer, in the same web browser.
>
> So, I tend to have more than one web browser running at the same time,
> with firefox script enabled, and, the other(s) script disabled.. On my
> other system, I have firefox running, script enabled, and, Seamonkey
> running, script disabled.
>
> Another issue, depending upon the nature of the web site(s) with which
> you have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some
> particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against
> ad blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers
> of users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites
> trying to steal the users' identities and personal information.
>
on the Q520 I am not sure.
> So, if you can find a trusted web site, I suggest temporarily disabling
> all plugins, and, monitoring the effect, if any, on your system load - I
> would not do this, with the web site(s) responsible for this problem - I
> think the system load problem, could be your computer defending itself
> against an attack.
>
> I also wonder whether you notice any unexpected massive data traffic.
>
> I have, from time to time, noticed unexpected sustained downloads, using
> up tens of gigabytes of my quota.
>
> Unfortunately, insofar as I am aware, Linux does not have any packages
> that indicate what websites are responsible for Internet traffic; if I
> notice sustained downloading of over half a megabyte per second, all
> that I can do, is turn off the networking, for a couple of hours, and,
> check to see whether it resumes the unsolicited traffic.
end I may also do this. It will just take time
thank you for your long post and opinion
deloptes
May 9, 2021, 3:50:04 AM5/9/21
to
Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 09.05.2021 02:30, deloptes wrote:
>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>> Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>>
> I think you have unrealistic expectations.
> This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as
> efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to
> low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
> Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to
> generate even more heat.
> That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and
> cooling fan. [2]
> Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this
> mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
> No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
> Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> and you will have the same outcome.
>
Thank you - I've been thinking of this, but somehow I am not convinced. See
> On 09.05.2021 02:30, deloptes wrote:
>> Charles Curley wrote:
>>
>>>> Fujitsu ESPRIMO Q520 when opening some sh*tty web sitesin firefox the
>>>> fan gets extremly noisy.
>>> I have a similar problem with some of my older laptops. I have switched
>>> to Vivaldi (based on chromium), and that has reduced the problem
>>> considerably. Firefox is a resource hog.
>> Q520 is not a week/old machine it is i5 cpu
>>
> I think you have unrealistic expectations.
> This unit has 4th gen 2 core CPU rated at 35W TDP. [1] Which is not as
> efficient as modern CPUs and don't have the ability to step-down to
> low-frequency (under 1GHz) modes.
> Turbo Boost doesn't count in the TDP rating and it makes this mini-PC to
> generate even more heat.
> That amount of heat has to be dissipated with super small heatsink and
> cooling fan. [2]
> Keep in mind, that fan also has to cool down every other part of this
> mini-PC, like ICH, RAM, HDD and power circuit components.
> No wonder it struggles to keep up and produce so much noise.
> Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> and you will have the same outcome.
>
the CPU frequency (800).
What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true? Should I test
by opening the case. If theory is true with proper cooling it wouldn't run
crazy. Correct?
>
> [1]
>
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/75045/intel-core-i5-4570t-processor-4m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html
> [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9y0bkHKjQ
>
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz
stepping : 7
microcode : 0x2f
cpu MHz : 1720.697
cache size : 6144 KB
Q520
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 60
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz
stepping : 3
microcode : 0x28
cache size : 4096 KB
Alexander V. Makartsev
May 9, 2021, 5:10:04 AM5/9/21
to
You can monitor and log temperatures and other characteristics with
'psensor'.
TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep the temperature at that point or lower.
I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.
By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike to 100% and heat to build up.
I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations (meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without resorting to throttling.
Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.
I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM (3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.
TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep the temperature at that point or lower.
I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.
By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike to 100% and heat to build up.
I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations (meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without resorting to throttling.
Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.
I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM (3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.
C700 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 42 model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz stepping : 7 microcode : 0x2f cpu MHz : 1720.697 cache size : 6144 KB Q520 vendor_id : GenuineIntel cpu family : 6 model : 60 model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz stepping : 3 microcode : 0x28 cpu MHz : 800.998 cache size : 4096 KB
Thomas Schmitt
May 9, 2021, 6:20:05 AM5/9/21
to
Hi,
Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> > and you will have the same outcome.
(top -H or top interactive command "H" come to my mind.)
I remember the request in this mail thread that you should post an URL
which triggers the problem for you. It might help to get more measurements
and opinions.
(A known browser hog is Gitlab. Just looking at
https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team
brings my Xeon CPU to full speed for about a minute and keeps it slightly
excited until i go to a boring page like
https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team/libisofs/-/raw/89c99327282f926c5ba40e49a67ac051cd1fe24a/debian/changelog
and hide the browser window behind my many xterms.)
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> > and you will have the same outcome.
deloptes wrote:
> What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true?
Did you already compare the Firefoxes about the number of threads they run ?
> What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true?
(top -H or top interactive command "H" come to my mind.)
I remember the request in this mail thread that you should post an URL
which triggers the problem for you. It might help to get more measurements
and opinions.
(A known browser hog is Gitlab. Just looking at
https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team
brings my Xeon CPU to full speed for about a minute and keeps it slightly
excited until i go to a boring page like
https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team/libisofs/-/raw/89c99327282f926c5ba40e49a67ac051cd1fe24a/debian/changelog
and hide the browser window behind my many xterms.)
Have a nice day :)
Thomas
Tixy
May 9, 2021, 7:30:04 AM5/9/21
to
On Sun, 2021-05-09 at 12:13 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > > Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> > > and you will have the same outcome.
>
> deloptes wrote:
> > What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true?
>
> Did you already compare the Firefoxes about the number of threads they run ?
> (top -H or top interactive command "H" come to my mind.)
>
> I remember the request in this mail thread that you should post an URL
> which triggers the problem for you. It might help to get more measurements
> and opinions.
> (A known browser hog is Gitlab. Just looking at
> https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team
> brings my Xeon CPU to full speed for about a minute
Doesn't for me, about 50% of a CPU for a couple of seconds. There
> Hi,
>
> Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > > Put this mini-PC under any, not just Firefox, multi-threaded workload
> > > and you will have the same outcome.
>
> deloptes wrote:
> > What would be a good test to find out if this theory is true?
>
> Did you already compare the Firefoxes about the number of threads they run ?
> (top -H or top interactive command "H" come to my mind.)
>
> I remember the request in this mail thread that you should post an URL
> which triggers the problem for you. It might help to get more measurements
> and opinions.
> (A known browser hog is Gitlab. Just looking at
> https://salsa.debian.org/optical-media-team
> brings my Xeon CPU to full speed for about a minute
again, I've got a pretty fast CPU (an i7-9700) which I guess makes all
the difference.
--
Tixy
Celejar
May 9, 2021, 9:00:05 PM5/9/21
to
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:18:35 -0400
Dan Ritter <d...@randomstring.org> wrote:
> Bret Busby wrote:
> >
> > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
> > server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved
> > with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and
> > benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I
> > suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s)
> > responsible for the problem.
>
> There are some reasonable cases for client-side computing. It's
> certainly badly overused.
>
> > have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some
> > particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad
> > blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of
> > users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying
> > to steal the users' identities and personal information.
>
> I've never encountered this -- please let me know some sample
> URLs whenever you have time.
https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/mu2qcm/indefinitely_increasing_blocked_elements/
Dan Ritter <d...@randomstring.org> wrote:
> Bret Busby wrote:
> >
> > I think this goes to the issue of client side processing, as opposed to
> > server side processing ( I believe, and, argue, that all processing involved
> > with web sites, should be server side, if the web sites are competently and
> > benignly written, and that client side processing, is malignant), and I
> > suggest that it could be worth viewing the source code of the web site(s)
> > responsible for the problem.
>
> There are some reasonable cases for client-side computing. It's
> certainly badly overused.
>
> > have a problem, could be in the use of plugins in firefox - some
> > particularly malicious web sites put up quite aggressive fights against ad
> > blocking and tracking blocking plugins, and try to burn out computers of
> > users who object to ads and being tracked and who object to websites trying
> > to steal the users' identities and personal information.
>
> I've never encountered this -- please let me know some sample
> URLs whenever you have time.
I'm not sure that I would interpret this sort of thing as the website
putting up an aggressive fight or deliberately trying to burn out
anyone's computer, but it is an annoyance that one sometimes encounters.
Celejar
deloptes
May 10, 2021, 3:10:05 AM5/10/21
to
Celejar wrote:
>
https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/mu2qcm/indefinitely_increasing_blocked_elements/
>
> I'm not sure that I would interpret this sort of thing as the website
> putting up an aggressive fight or deliberately trying to burn out
> anyone's computer, but it is an annoyance that one sometimes encounters.
>
> Celejar
Thank you. I've been looking at the machine yesterday from remote and I
>
https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/mu2qcm/indefinitely_increasing_blocked_elements/
>
> I'm not sure that I would interpret this sort of thing as the website
> putting up an aggressive fight or deliberately trying to burn out
> anyone's computer, but it is an annoyance that one sometimes encounters.
>
> Celejar
could not understand why on specific site the CPU usage goes that much up.
It could be that Alexander V. Makartsev is right about TCase and I came to
the conclusion that we'll try to replace the fan with a better one if
possible to find or just replace the PC. Unfortunately I'll be not
physically around the PC before July.
I wonder if green activists keep an eye on these abuse of the web sites and
someone has already calculated hoe much power is get lost because of this.
deloptes
May 10, 2021, 3:20:04 AM5/10/21
to
Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
Thank you Alexander V. Makartsev
> You can monitor and log temperatures and other characteristics with
> 'psensor'.
> TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep
> the temperature at that point or lower.
> I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this
> cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.
This is exactly what I've been thinking as well
> By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike
> to 100% and heat to build up.
seems to be the case
> I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations
> (meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it
> to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without
> resorting to throttling.
I was also thinking of this, but I'll try to find a bios update first
> Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if
> the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case
> and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.
thank you for confirming my thoughts
> I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this
> mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just
> replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
> Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM
> (3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.
We can try to find a low noise one if possible. If not the PC will be
replaced.
Thank you Alexander V. Makartsev
> You can monitor and log temperatures and other characteristics with
> 'psensor'.
> TCase of i5-4570T is only 66.35°C and that means CPU will have to keep
> the temperature at that point or lower.
> I'd expect an idle temperature of this CPU (without any load) with this
> cooling solution will be already around 40-45°C if not higher.
> By simple launching of any application will make the CPU load to spike
> to 100% and heat to build up.
> I'm not sure if disabling CPU vulnerabilities mitigations
> (meltdown\spectre) would improve the performance of the CPU, allowing it
> to go into idle state sooner and this way make it cooler without
> resorting to throttling.
> Opening the case won't help much and will probably be more harmful if
> the cooling solution was designed to make the air flow through the case
> and this way cooldown the other components of this unit.
> I doubt you can do anything to improve cooling efficiency of this
> mini-PC, because its cooling solution is not standard and you can't just
> replace it with a more efficient one, like you can with standard PC.
> Basically, a small sized cooler fan means it will have higher RPM
> (3000+) and high RPM means it will produce a lot of loud noise.
replaced.
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