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Tony van der Hoff
Apr 8, 2012, 10:40:01 AM4/8/12
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Has anyone here managed to get skype working reliably under Squeeze? I
have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
Google doesn't provide much enlightenment, has anyone got any tips, please?
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have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
Google doesn't provide much enlightenment, has anyone got any tips, please?
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Camaleón
Apr 8, 2012, 11:10:02 AM4/8/12
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On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:20:49 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> Has anyone here managed to get skype working reliably under Squeeze? I
> have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
> intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
There is no native 64-bits Skype packages for Linux and 2.2.0.35 is
> Has anyone here managed to get skype working reliably under Squeeze? I
> have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
> intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
"beta" tagged which seems to be consitent with your problems.
> Google doesn't provide much enlightenment, has anyone got any tips,
> please?
https://support.skype.com/en/
For the crashes, you can the usual: launching Spyke from command line to
get some useful trace.
Greetings,
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 8, 2012, 11:10:02 AM4/8/12
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On 09/04/12 00:20, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> Has anyone here managed to get skype working reliably under Squeeze? I
> have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
> intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
>
> Google doesn't provide much enlightenment, has anyone got any tips, please?
>
Sure - works fine for me, video meetings, shared desktops, call
> Has anyone here managed to get skype working reliably under Squeeze? I
> have 2.2.0.35-1 for AMD64, but I'm encountering many problems;
> intermittent sound, no video, system crashes.
>
> Google doesn't provide much enlightenment, has anyone got any tips, please?
>
recording, and usually have two client (different accounts) open at the
same time. I use PulseAudio and Skype 2.2.0.25-1 Beta (didn't know there
was a later version). Port 53305 is opened on the firewall but it
shouldn't make much difference if you've closed it.
SkypCallRecord, Skyessential, Skype4Py and Amarok extensions installed.
Also the python-skype is installed.
Never had a crash. I know a lot of people with the same experience -
though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
Anything in dmesg or syslog?
In Skype Options, Advanced - tick "Display technical information" and
then put the mouse over the callers avatar when in a call for jitter and
other info.
Kind regards
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Russell L. Harris
Apr 8, 2012, 2:00:01 PM4/8/12
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* Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
...
It appears to me that Ekiga (formerly gnomemeeting) is a good
solution. Am I mistaken?
Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running Skype on a
Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
RLH
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...
> though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
I also need such a package.
> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
It appears to me that Ekiga (formerly gnomemeeting) is a good
solution. Am I mistaken?
Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running Skype on a
Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
RLH
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Brian
Apr 8, 2012, 3:00:02 PM4/8/12
to
On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> ...
> > though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
> > voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
>
> I also need such a package.
To be an exact replacement which will work on the Skype network in the
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> ...
> > though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
> > voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
>
> I also need such a package.
same way as the Skype client? Can't be done.
> It appears to me that Ekiga (formerly gnomemeeting) is a good
> solution. Am I mistaken?
with the Skype network?
> Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
> persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running Skype on a
> Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 9, 2012, 2:30:02 AM4/9/12
to
On 09/04/12 04:40, Brian wrote:
> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>
>> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
>> ...
>>> though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
>>> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
<snipped>
> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>
>> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
>> ...
>>> though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
>>> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
>
> As a VoIP client (SIP etc), probably. But how is it for interworking
> with the Skype network?
communicate is your only requirement.
<snipped>
Kind regards
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 9, 2012, 2:40:02 AM4/9/12
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On 09/04/12 03:53, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> ...
>> though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
>> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
>
> I also need such a package.
>
> It appears to me that Ekiga (formerly gnomemeeting) is a good
> solution. Am I mistaken?
No, you're not mistaken, just probably seeking a solution to a different
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> ...
>> though we would love to find another multi-platform, easy to install
>> voip program, preferably open source, to replace it.
>
> I also need such a package.
>
> It appears to me that Ekiga (formerly gnomemeeting) is a good
> solution. Am I mistaken?
problem (lucky you!).
Thanks for reminding me to take another look at Ekiga.
Blink, Jitis, Linphone, Mumble, QuteCom, and Yate are other interesting
programs.
None of which completely cover the range of platforms I require, though
I have a soft spot for Linphone.
>
> Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
> persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running Skype on a
> Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
allows me to communicate with everyone, from everything I use
telecommunications with.
An open protocol is important - but so is commercial adoption in order
to have a competitive market for connections to mobile and landlines.
A primary requirement is that whatever the solution - it be available in
Debian, availability and support on other distros and platforms is a bonus.
>
> RLH
>
>
I'm after a solution to a problem that Ekiga only partially solves.
It does have some features I like - but it doesn't fully replace the
features of Skype. And I do want to replace Skype - in the unlikely
event that Skype open sourced[*1] their codecs I'd still want to move
the bulk of my telecommunications to a more competitive protocol.
My ideal solution is something a non-technical person can easily
configure. Meaning it must be capable of being installed by a chicken -
put bread on Enter key - keep tapping Enter.
It doesn't work well on low-speed, low latency connections. That's a
problem that may not be solvable.
I may have to compromise and use multiple VOIP solutions, as part of my
needs is to be able to communicate with non-technical people who have no
interest in learning why commercially popular applications are not the
only, or the best, solutions.
[*1] yes, I know it's been reversed, but that's not the solution I'm
looking for. Additionally there's still only one player in the price
setting market for landlines and mobile connections. And Skype is *not*
cheap compared to other players.
Kind regards
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Tony van der Hoff
Apr 9, 2012, 4:30:02 AM4/9/12
to
On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>
> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
> communicate is your only requirement.
>
This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
>
> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
> communicate is your only requirement.
>
with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
else would co-exist!
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 9, 2012, 7:00:01 AM4/9/12
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On 09/04/12 18:09, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
Skype network is distinct from the soft-phone components.
> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
I'll do a little digging and find out more about the services that do
that if you like.
To the best of my foggy recollections it's commercial Skype to SIP (and
maybe other protocol) bridges - but it's possible there are other
variations.
A search engine can tell you more. I'm lazy and I don't want to appear
to know something I just looked up and repeated like a monkey ;-p
>
> I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
> else would co-exist!
>
no proof.
I do know work is currently being done to integrate it into two MS
products. And that early last year some restrictive changes where made
to the network - whether those restrictions were because of new
ownership, integration with MS products, or to limit compatibility with
the reversed code release I don't know.
While I favour open systems I'm opposed to enclaves - that leads to
ghettos, so I like to mix open and closed if only to force the closed to
allow the open (if that makes any sense).
I'd like to find an alternative to Skype - but while MS owns it I'll
continue to throw a few dollars at it every now and then - means they
have to lose revenue cutting off the GNU/Linux client, and helps stop
the world dividing into clients by platform enclaves.
Besides - I've had people get interest in GNU/Linux just because the
Skype client is better and contains no adds.
Kind regards
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Brian
Apr 9, 2012, 7:30:02 AM4/9/12
to
On Mon 09 Apr 2012 at 10:09:59 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
You don't really install SIP you use a SIP client (Ekiga or Linphone,
> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>
>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>
> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
for example) to communicate with a gateway running the Skype client. The
gateway manipulates the Skype client using the SIP messages you send and
can be on your own machine or somebody else's machine. The first will
cost you time and effort; the second will probably cost money. The
gateway will provide voice but maybe not video.
Either way you cannot avoid running the Skype client, or its equivalent,
somewhere. If it is local you may as well use it (have you managed to
set it up yet?) to talk with your friends.
> I was under the impression that Skype was so proprietary that nothing
> else would co-exist!
of interworking with its client.
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Russell L. Harris
Apr 9, 2012, 2:30:02 PM4/9/12
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* Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> [120409 00:33]:
I wish to converse directly and one-on-one with the other Ekiga user.
I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy, recording, and
non-exclusive license issues (an example being the license of
photo-sharing hosts to market photos which clients upload for sharing
with friends and family).
So, I am thinking that Ekiga is sufficiently similar to $kype that it
ought be possible for a non-technical Window$ user who managed to get
$kype installed and configured to likewise install and configure Ekiga
-- if he likewise values privacy in his communications with me.
This is no different than saying, "Instead of continuing to meet at
$tarbuck$, let's start meeting around the corner and down the street,
at the Java Hut, which is much more private."
Let him use $kype to talk to the rest of the world; but when he wishes
to talk with me, he can fire up Ekiga (or whatever), rather than
$kype. Of course, I realize that relatively few are willing to
accommodate me, unless the installation and setup is very simple.
RLH
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> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>
> > * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> > ...
>
> > * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
> > ...
> To be an exact replacement which will work on the Skype network in the
> same way as the Skype client? Can't be done.
...
> same way as the Skype client? Can't be done.
> > Ideally, it should be sufficiently similar and simple, so that I could
> > persuade the other guy (who almost invariably is running $kype on a
> > Window$ box) to install Ekiga.
...
> She's happy with what she has got. Why feel impelled to alter that?
I wish specifically to avoid the use of $kype channels. If possible,
I wish to converse directly and one-on-one with the other Ekiga user.
I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy, recording, and
non-exclusive license issues (an example being the license of
photo-sharing hosts to market photos which clients upload for sharing
with friends and family).
So, I am thinking that Ekiga is sufficiently similar to $kype that it
ought be possible for a non-technical Window$ user who managed to get
$kype installed and configured to likewise install and configure Ekiga
-- if he likewise values privacy in his communications with me.
This is no different than saying, "Instead of continuing to meet at
$tarbuck$, let's start meeting around the corner and down the street,
at the Java Hut, which is much more private."
Let him use $kype to talk to the rest of the world; but when he wishes
to talk with me, he can fire up Ekiga (or whatever), rather than
$kype. Of course, I realize that relatively few are willing to
accommodate me, unless the installation and setup is very simple.
RLH
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 9, 2012, 7:10:02 PM4/9/12
to
On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> [120409 00:33]:
>> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>
>>> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
>>> ...
<snipped>
> * Brian <ad...@cityscape.co.uk> [120409 00:33]:
>> On Sun 08 Apr 2012 at 17:53:02 +0000, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>
>>> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120408 17:39]:
>>> ...
>
> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).
Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
platforms.
Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
out the private key.
<snipped>
Kind regards
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Russell L. Harris
Apr 10, 2012, 12:50:01 PM4/10/12
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* Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120410 15:48]:
The greater the diversity of transport, the better. And, in general,
the less the concern with being overheard, the better -- for such
concern reduces traffic, and a large stream is infinitely more
difficult to monitor than is a tiny stream.
>From the logistical standpoint, routine monitoring of peer-to-peer
conversations through a multitude of channels -- even unencoded -- is
almost impossible, even with keyword searching (which results in
innumerable false positives). But if every conversation goes through
the same pipeline, even encryption can be overcome.
RLH
"How could one chase a thousand, or two put to flight ten thousand,
unless their Rock had sold them into the hand of their enemies, and
the Lord God had abandoned them? -- paraphrase of Deuteronomy 32:30
"Ever-fearful of just retribution, the wicked takes alarm and flees,
oftentimes when there is no pursuer. But confident in the strength
and protection of the Lord his God, the righteous as the young lion is
fearless." -- paraphrase of Proverbs 28:1
"The West has open to it but one remedy to the present world
situation: that remedy is a return to the unadulterated Christian
Faith of the Scripture. But this is a return which necessitates
a resolute and uncompromising purging out of the spurious, the forgery,
the counterfeit, and the impostor. Curiously, few are willing to
sacrifice tradition for the sake of survival." -- RLH
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> On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> > I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
...
> > I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
> out the private key.
Which precisely is my concern.
> out the private key.
The greater the diversity of transport, the better. And, in general,
the less the concern with being overheard, the better -- for such
concern reduces traffic, and a large stream is infinitely more
difficult to monitor than is a tiny stream.
>From the logistical standpoint, routine monitoring of peer-to-peer
conversations through a multitude of channels -- even unencoded -- is
almost impossible, even with keyword searching (which results in
innumerable false positives). But if every conversation goes through
the same pipeline, even encryption can be overcome.
RLH
"How could one chase a thousand, or two put to flight ten thousand,
unless their Rock had sold them into the hand of their enemies, and
the Lord God had abandoned them? -- paraphrase of Deuteronomy 32:30
"Ever-fearful of just retribution, the wicked takes alarm and flees,
oftentimes when there is no pursuer. But confident in the strength
and protection of the Lord his God, the righteous as the young lion is
fearless." -- paraphrase of Proverbs 28:1
"The West has open to it but one remedy to the present world
situation: that remedy is a return to the unadulterated Christian
Faith of the Scripture. But this is a return which necessitates
a resolute and uncompromising purging out of the spurious, the forgery,
the counterfeit, and the impostor. Curiously, few are willing to
sacrifice tradition for the sake of survival." -- RLH
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Scott Ferguson
Apr 10, 2012, 8:50:01 PM4/10/12
to
On 11/04/12 02:39, Russell L. Harris wrote:
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120410
> 15:48]:
>> On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
> ...
>> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of
>> handing out the private key.
>
> Which precisely is my concern.
>
> The greater the diversity of transport, the better.
Agreed - I support choices (diversity).
> * Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> [120410
> 15:48]:
>> On 10/04/12 04:24, Russell L. Harris wrote:
>>> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
> ...
>> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of
>> handing out the private key.
>
> Which precisely is my concern.
>
> The greater the diversity of transport, the better.
> And, in general, the less the concern with being overheard, the
> better
condition being that we recognise that a better situation is where being
overheard does not lead to judgement. A world where we are free to speak
freely is better (IMO) than a world where we're free from being
overheard. There's a difference.
> -- for such concern reduces traffic, and a large stream is
> infinitely more difficult to monitor than is a tiny stream.
degrees of difficulty require only improved algorithms or more CPU power...
>
>> From the logistical standpoint, routine monitoring of peer-to-peer
> conversations through a multitude of channels -- even unencoded --
> is almost impossible, even with keyword searching (which results in
> innumerable false positives).
optical processors and quantum computing.
Consider the amount of data generated by a person communications as
compared to the data generated by the rest of their life. The problems
tend to occur with sorting out the chaff not in capturing the data. And
it's only error correction of a fine scale that is particularly
difficult - adjusting for deliberate muddying of data on larger subsets
of data is fairly routine.
> But if every conversation goes through the same pipeline, even
> encryption can be overcome.
achieved but only through poor implementation of encryption. eg. Skype's
padding.
NOTE: definitely not my field of expertise - I'd suggest Bruce Schneier
is the man to ask (rumoured to have memorised all Debian encryption
keys). There is at least one regular reader of this list who might also
have an informed opinion (but I won't name him).
>
> RLH
>
<snipped>
Interesting thoughts Russell, but... if this is to become another OT
thread (it kind of is already) it should be moved to the OT list.
Kind regards
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Christian
Apr 10, 2012, 9:10:02 PM4/10/12
to
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson
<scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
>>
>> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
>
> Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't
> support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).
>
> Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
> do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
> this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
> platforms.
>
> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
> out the private key.
The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it
<scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
>>
>> I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
>
> Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't
> support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).
>
> Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
> do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
> this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
> platforms.
>
> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
> out the private key.
out to?
Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be
able to use Linux as my work OS. One is MS Word the other is Skype, with
or without key handed out.
>
>
>
> <snipped>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
--
//Christian
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daniel jimenez
Apr 11, 2012, 12:20:02 AM4/11/12
to
It is shameful that, so many years after the digital revolution, proprietary formats such as those championed by microsoft are *mandated* by the industry, educational institutions and (in mexico at least) government departments. In fact, I recently had problems with my yearly tax declaration due to it only supporting and running on some version of Internet Explorer.
Hopefully, we can all make that change.
--
Daniel Jiménez
Hopefully, we can all make that change.
In the case of skype, I understand that their contributions to VoIP have been pioneering and extremely successful as a tool for individuals and the enterprise community alike. However, every company that doesn't support standardization is extremely short sighted and detrimental to the healthy growth of the field they represent.
Anyway, sorry for the hijack..
Daniel
Anyway, sorry for the hijack..
Daniel
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Christian <cdy...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson <scott.ferguson.debian.user@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>Then, sadly, Ekiga is *not* the answer for your needs as it doesn't
I am concerned with the "big brother" privacy,
support encryption. (one of the reasons it's not a fit for my needs).
Kphone, Jitsi, Mumble, QuteCom, Linphone, MicroSIP, SFLPhone, and Blink
do. Note that not all are multiplatform, see one of my previous posts to
this thread for a list of those that are ported to the three main PC
platforms.
Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
out the private key.
The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it out to?
Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be able to use Linux as my work OS. One is MS Word the other is Skype, with or without key handed out.
<snipped>
Kind regards
--
//Christian
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Daniel Jiménez
Scott Ferguson
Apr 11, 2012, 12:40:01 AM4/11/12
to
On 11/04/12 11:04, Christian wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson
> <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<snipped>
>>
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 18:03:28 -0500, Scott Ferguson
> <scott.ferguso...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
<snipped>
>>
>> Note also that Skype is encrypted, but Skype has a history of handing
>> out the private key.
>
> The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it
> out to?
Law enforcement - duly warranted I "assume".
>> out the private key.
>
> The term "handing out" makes me curious. Who exactly are they handing it
> out to?
Italian law enforcement that I'm aware of.
>
> Personally I am presented with a few requirements from my employer to be
> able to use Linux as my work OS.
The only employer I had who allowed GNU/Linux was Telstra - and they had
a long list of build and deployment rules, most of which were default in
Debian.
> One is MS Word the other is Skype, with
> or without key handed out.
has always been met by OpenOffice.org, with the exception of one client
(who prefers I use their own VOIP product) - Skype's security satisfies
the requirements of clients that do specify a VOIP product. I'm not
currently concerned about government or law enforcement monitoring my
communications, but I take heed of Chile's experience with Alan Bond.
Business espionage would be a greater concern to me than Big Brother -
not that I have any involvement in NBN tenders, and Defence related
business usually has ONA and DSD guidelines about means of communication
(which don't affect me, currently and I'm not in a position to comment on).
Kind regards
--
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Doug
Apr 11, 2012, 1:30:01 AM4/11/12
to
On 04/11/2012 12:15 AM, daniel jimenez wrote:
> It is shameful that, so many years after the digital revolution,
> proprietary formats such as those championed by microsoft are
> *mandated* by the industry, educational institutions and (in mexico at
> least) government departments. In fact, I recently had problems with
> my yearly tax declaration due to it only supporting and running on
> some version of Internet Explorer.
>
> Hopefully, we can all make that change.
>
> In the case of skype, I understand that their contributions to VoIP
> have been pioneering and extremely successful as a tool for
> individuals and the enterprise community alike. However, every company
> that doesn't support standardization is extremely short sighted and
> detrimental to the healthy growth of the field they represent.
>
> Anyway, sorry for the hijack..
>
> Daniel
/snip/
> It is shameful that, so many years after the digital revolution,
> proprietary formats such as those championed by microsoft are
> *mandated* by the industry, educational institutions and (in mexico at
> least) government departments. In fact, I recently had problems with
> my yearly tax declaration due to it only supporting and running on
> some version of Internet Explorer.
>
> Hopefully, we can all make that change.
>
> In the case of skype, I understand that their contributions to VoIP
> have been pioneering and extremely successful as a tool for
> individuals and the enterprise community alike. However, every company
> that doesn't support standardization is extremely short sighted and
> detrimental to the healthy growth of the field they represent.
>
> Anyway, sorry for the hijack..
>
> Daniel
Microsoft and Skype are sure to tell you that _their_ formats _are_ the
standard. And to a great extent, they're correct! (Microsoft would
have a better case
if they didn't keep changing it, so much so that their own word
processor can't even read what an earlier version of the same program
wrote!)
I don't know who standardized on the placement of the clutch and brake
pedals, but whoever it was, the rest of the industry was forced to
follow. Can
you imagine what a mess we would be in if they didn't? Similarly for the
basic gear-shift pattern. Only reverse moves, and, afaik, only to one
of two places.
And, I must say, that annoys me, since I once had a car with reverse
left and up, and now I have one with reverse right and down. Especially
since left and up
was pretty much standardized back in the 1930s. To make things worse,
both cars that I refer to here were made by GM in the United States.
To get back to the point, I would have no problem with .doc if it would
only stay put! And who is to say that the Skype format does not deserve
to be the
standard? It's probably as good as any, so long as everyone will agree
to use it.
I have to say that a lot of the complaints from people in our Linux
community seem to be of the NIH variety: Not Invented Here!
Just my 2ข. --doug
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Alan Chandler
Apr 11, 2012, 2:40:01 AM4/11/12
to
On 09/04/12 12:08, Brian wrote:
> On Mon 09 Apr 2012 at 10:09:59 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
>
>> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>>
>> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
>> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
> You don't really install SIP you use a SIP client (Ekiga or Linphone,
> for example) to communicate with a gateway running the Skype client. The
> gateway manipulates the Skype client using the SIP messages you send and
> can be on your own machine or somebody else's machine. The first will
> cost you time and effort; the second will probably cost money. The
> gateway will provide voice but maybe not video.
>
> Either way you cannot avoid running the Skype client, or its equivalent,
> somewhere. If it is local you may as well use it (have you managed to
> set it up yet?) to talk with your friends.
>
Its been a while now since I played with it, but I have a recollection
> On Mon 09 Apr 2012 at 10:09:59 +0200, Tony van der Hoff wrote:
>
>> On 09/04/12 08:22, Scott Ferguson wrote:
>>> SIP will currently work with the Skype network - if being able to
>>> communicate is your only requirement.
>>>
>> This is interesting. Do you mean I could install SIP, and communicate
>> with my wedded to skype contacts? Voice, video, text?
> You don't really install SIP you use a SIP client (Ekiga or Linphone,
> for example) to communicate with a gateway running the Skype client. The
> gateway manipulates the Skype client using the SIP messages you send and
> can be on your own machine or somebody else's machine. The first will
> cost you time and effort; the second will probably cost money. The
> gateway will provide voice but maybe not video.
>
> Either way you cannot avoid running the Skype client, or its equivalent,
> somewhere. If it is local you may as well use it (have you managed to
> set it up yet?) to talk with your friends.
>
that Freeswitch (which is a bit like Asterisk) has a skype connector.
[Its a long story, but I sent up a system so my daughters to communicate
with me. I have (or rather they now have - gathering dust) some linksys
boxes that could take a standard phone and turn it into a sip phone. I
had Freeswitch running on my home server (which is a server for
everything - freeswitch hardly added to the load) and they could phone
in (even though they were behind a NAT box). Unfortunately the
convenience of the mobile phone meant they never really used it]
--
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
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Lorenzo Sutton
Apr 11, 2012, 11:40:02 AM4/11/12
to
Adding the [OT] label as this is rather far from 'debian'...
I think the simile doesn't stand much... Although I'm no car expert, I
would compare the position of the pedals to interface elements you use
for the voip/IM client (e.g. a big green button with a lifting phone on
the left to indicate "start a call") which we could now-a-days consider
'standard' in the common language meaning. The protocols being used for
the communication would be more of "what happens when you press on the
brake pedal which acts on the actual brake". Indeed standards for
braking systems exist:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html#SN105 (in this
case I guess mainly for security reasons)
So something like: position of the pedals is the client/interface (in
fact there are special cars (clients) for disabled people with specific
which use a lever instead of a pedal). Breaking mechanism: protocols.
> And, I must say, that annoys me, since I once had a car with reverse
> left and up, and now I have one with reverse right and down.
> Especially since left and up
> was pretty much standardized back in the 1930s. To make things worse,
> both cars that I refer to here were made by GM in the United States.
>
> To get back to the point, I would have no problem with .doc if it
> would only stay put! And who is to say that the Skype format does not
> deserve to be the
> standard? It's probably as good as any, so long as everyone will
> agree to use it.
>
> I have to say that a lot of the complaints from people in our Linux
> community seem to be of the NIH variety: Not Invented Here!
>
If skype decided to release their protocol as an open format I might agree.
Otherwise given the inpact a technology like VoIP might have now-a-days
I would like at least governments to invest in research (and of course
willing corporations could be involved) to create the best protocols for
doing it which took into account security, privacy, etc. etc. But I can
see myself being slightly idealistic there.
I think there is confusion between 'standards' (and 'open standards')
and trends. I will agree that the market can push a trend if successful,
but standards should also be concerned with the above and most of all be
open.
Lorenzo.
> Just my 2ข. --doug
>
>
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would compare the position of the pedals to interface elements you use
for the voip/IM client (e.g. a big green button with a lifting phone on
the left to indicate "start a call") which we could now-a-days consider
'standard' in the common language meaning. The protocols being used for
the communication would be more of "what happens when you press on the
brake pedal which acts on the actual brake". Indeed standards for
braking systems exist:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html#SN105 (in this
case I guess mainly for security reasons)
So something like: position of the pedals is the client/interface (in
fact there are special cars (clients) for disabled people with specific
which use a lever instead of a pedal). Breaking mechanism: protocols.
> And, I must say, that annoys me, since I once had a car with reverse
> left and up, and now I have one with reverse right and down.
> Especially since left and up
> was pretty much standardized back in the 1930s. To make things worse,
> both cars that I refer to here were made by GM in the United States.
>
> To get back to the point, I would have no problem with .doc if it
> would only stay put! And who is to say that the Skype format does not
> deserve to be the
> standard? It's probably as good as any, so long as everyone will
> agree to use it.
>
> I have to say that a lot of the complaints from people in our Linux
> community seem to be of the NIH variety: Not Invented Here!
>
Otherwise given the inpact a technology like VoIP might have now-a-days
I would like at least governments to invest in research (and of course
willing corporations could be involved) to create the best protocols for
doing it which took into account security, privacy, etc. etc. But I can
see myself being slightly idealistic there.
I think there is confusion between 'standards' (and 'open standards')
and trends. I will agree that the market can push a trend if successful,
but standards should also be concerned with the above and most of all be
open.
Lorenzo.
> Just my 2ข. --doug
>
>
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