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counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question
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Zenaan Harkness
Jun 19, 2013, 11:10:02 PM6/19/13
to
On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> packages distributed by debian?
A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
It would have to be libre of course - which license would you like for
your own personal backdoor? Some people swear by GPL2 but many
projects have updated to GPL3.
Although, AGPL might actually be the best in this case...
Are you coder? Or ... perhaps that's why you asked?
Anyway, perhaps we could create a Task - "PRISM backdoor backdoor
Task" or something?
:)
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> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> packages distributed by debian?
A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
It would have to be libre of course - which license would you like for
your own personal backdoor? Some people swear by GPL2 but many
projects have updated to GPL3.
Although, AGPL might actually be the best in this case...
Are you coder? Or ... perhaps that's why you asked?
Anyway, perhaps we could create a Task - "PRISM backdoor backdoor
Task" or something?
:)
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Slavko
Jun 20, 2013, 2:50:01 AM6/20/13
to
Hi,
> On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> packages distributed by debian?
Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
for USA's inhabitants only...
regards
--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk
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> On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> packages distributed by debian?
the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
for USA's inhabitants only...
regards
--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk
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Joe
Jun 20, 2013, 3:20:02 AM6/20/13
to
On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:43:06 +0200
Slavko <li...@slavino.sk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> > PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> > backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> > packages distributed by debian?
>
> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>
> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and
> it is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
>
> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TheKenThompsonHack
Slavko <li...@slavino.sk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> > PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> > backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> > packages distributed by debian?
>
> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>
> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and
> it is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
>
> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>
--
Joe
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Chris Bannister
Jun 20, 2013, 7:00:02 AM6/20/13
to
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 01:08:12PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>
> A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
gnupg? Although, there is still the metadata in the message envelope, to
>
> A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
worry about.
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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Paul E Condon
Jun 20, 2013, 7:50:01 PM6/20/13
to
On 20130620_084306, Slavko wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> > PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> > backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> > packages distributed by debian?
>
> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>
> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
> is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
>
> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>
> And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
> followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
> there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
> for USA's inhabitants only...
>
> regards
>
> --
> Slavko
> http://slavino.sk
Debian is a international organization. Its OpenPRISM could be a
> Hi,
>
> > On 6/20/13, Greg <gre...@att.net> wrote:
> > Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
> > PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
> > backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
> > packages distributed by debian?
>
> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>
> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
> is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
>
> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>
> And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
> followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
> there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
> for USA's inhabitants only...
>
> regards
>
> --
> Slavko
> http://slavino.sk
service to all the spies of the world, whatever their political
persuasion. Think of the cost saving if there were only one shared
facility for all. Maybe the Koch brothers would be willing to be
financial sponsors for the initial proof of concept work.
--
Paul E Condon
peco...@mesanetworks.net
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Philip Ashmore
Jun 20, 2013, 8:50:02 PM6/20/13
to
On 20/06/13 22:50, Paul E Condon wrote:
> On 20130620_084306, Slavko wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> On 6/20/13, Greg<gre...@att.net> wrote:
>>> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
>>> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
>>> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
>>> packages distributed by debian?
>>
>> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
>> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>>
>> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
>> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
>> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
>> is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
I remember reading about software complexity metrics and how the most
> On 20130620_084306, Slavko wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>> On 6/20/13, Greg<gre...@att.net> wrote:
>>> Does anyone think that debian could participate in any programs like
>>> PRISM? Or could a lone (or group of) sympathetic DD or DM slip a
>>> backdoor or something that could collect private info in the binary
>>> packages distributed by debian?
>>
>> Sure, here is something, that collect info and send it to the Debian -
>> the popoularity contest... (yes, i see the differences)
>>
>> Anybody can do anything - then yes, it is possible, that someone from
>> DD/DM can integrate something bad into some package. It is possible,
>> that backdoor is implemented by upstream author/contributor too, and it
>> is possible, that backdoor is in Linux kernel too.
complex pieces of
code had the fewest bug fixes - because most everyone stayed away from them.
And even if Debian had software provability built into Lintian, would it
be bug free?
Could it prove that it was itself bug free?
>>
>>
>> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
>> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
>> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>>
>> And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
>> followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
>> there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
>> for USA's inhabitants only...
>>
>> regards
>>
>> --
>> Slavko
>> http://slavino.sk
>
> Debian is a international organization. Its OpenPRISM could be a
> service to all the spies of the world, whatever their political
> persuasion. Think of the cost saving if there were only one shared
> facility for all. Maybe the Koch brothers would be willing to be
> financial sponsors for the initial proof of concept work.
If you've ever watched "Ghost in the shell" then you'd know that the
>>
>> But how long it will be in Debian? Because most of binaries in Debian
>> are provided with they sources, anybody can take look into it and then
>> anybody can find and report, that something is wrong ;-)
>>
>> And yes, it is possible, that some of DD/DM are CIA (and similar)
>> followers. It is possible, but IMO not presumable, because i hope, that
>> there are not the people, which think, that the freedom and privacy is
>> for USA's inhabitants only...
>>
>> regards
>>
>> --
>> Slavko
>> http://slavino.sk
>
> Debian is a international organization. Its OpenPRISM could be a
> service to all the spies of the world, whatever their political
> persuasion. Think of the cost saving if there were only one shared
> facility for all. Maybe the Koch brothers would be willing to be
> financial sponsors for the initial proof of concept work.
possibility exists that while
you believe you're typing away at the keyboard, you could in fact be
drooling in the corner of
an insane asylum.
Droool.
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låzaro
Jun 25, 2013, 8:50:01 AM6/25/13
to
Make yourself this question:
I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
There have not another way for waste CIA's time and money than look
for me; a Mr. Nobody?
Why CIAS's HDD space shall used to store info about ME? What I have that
their concern so much for waste HDD space?
Would be me a terrorist but I do not know? My family or friends are
terrorist?
If I'm would be so important, their just recruited me long time ago.
KILL SOMEBODY is more cheap and efficient than track it
That SPY movies are hurting my mind. Should I stop seen it?
After that... you will feel better person and less paranoiac...
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
Mail number: 6
Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013
In reply to: Chris Bannister
100'000 pelos de escoba fueron
introducidos satisfactoriamente
en su puerto USB.
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I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
There have not another way for waste CIA's time and money than look
for me; a Mr. Nobody?
Why CIAS's HDD space shall used to store info about ME? What I have that
their concern so much for waste HDD space?
Would be me a terrorist but I do not know? My family or friends are
terrorist?
If I'm would be so important, their just recruited me long time ago.
KILL SOMEBODY is more cheap and efficient than track it
That SPY movies are hurting my mind. Should I stop seen it?
After that... you will feel better person and less paranoiac...
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
Mail number: 6
Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013
In reply to: Chris Bannister
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 01:08:12PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >
> > A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
>
> gnupg? Although, there is still the metadata in the message envelope, to
> worry about.
>
--
-------- Warning! ------------
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 01:08:12PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >
> > A counter-PRISM PRISM? Now there's a tautological idea! :)
>
> gnupg? Although, there is still the metadata in the message envelope, to
> worry about.
>
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Slavko
Jun 25, 2013, 1:00:02 PM6/25/13
to
Dňa 25.06.2013 02:05 låzaro wrote / napísal(a):
> Make yourself this question:
>
> I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
There are more questions:
> Make yourself this question:
>
> I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
How CIA (NSA, FBI, etc) will know, that the mail is from me and because
i am not important for them, then they will not scan it?
I am not important for our police, then policeman can go into my home
always, when they want?
Need i demonstrate, that i am not important by allowing (tolerating)
scanning of my communication?
Is something privacy, because government can break into it, or because
nobody can break into it?
Are google, facebook (and similar) in bussines (they carries about own
customers) or long hand of government?
Are people out of USA less than these come from USA (because USA tells,
that all is OK, because no USA citizens are taken)?
låzaro
Jun 25, 2013, 1:40:02 PM6/25/13
to
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
Mail number: 2
Date: Tue, Jun 25, 2013
In reply to: Slavko
why the CIA's shall watching you?
Like how many persons live in your city... the super developed countries
have cities with a lot of people.. should their have a database for track
all thats persons?
Their just need having you thinking:
-I tracking you!!
How their get it? Simple... make you believe that are recording all thats
data. There is when you see your data inspected...
Why recording... why storing.. is more simple keep the persons paranoiac
and hidden. The fear is a very good weapon... and a way for keep the
peoples bussy, thinking ins 007-spy things...
Ok, when the police come to my home, I'll kick their ass. While that not
happening, I have nothing to hide. The ISP could see all my data and it
will get bored very fast.
Poor man, that get payed for read my email. Must very bored reading craps
about free software, cheap literature and nursing.
free your mind, we are Mr. Nobodys...
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Slavko
Jun 25, 2013, 2:40:01 PM6/25/13
to
Dňa 25.06.2013 19:32 låzaro wrote / napísal(a):
> Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
> Mail number: 2
> Date: Tue, Jun 25, 2013
> In reply to: Slavko
>>
>> Dňa 25.06.2013 02:05 låzaro wrote / napísal(a):
>>> Make yourself this question:
>>>
>>> I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
>>
>> There are more questions:
>>
>> How CIA (NSA, FBI, etc) will know, that the mail is from me and because
>> i am not important for them, then they will not scan it?
>>
>> I am not important for our police, then policeman can go into my home
>> always, when they want?
>>
>> Need i demonstrate, that i am not important by allowing (tolerating)
>> scanning of my communication?
>>
>> Is something privacy, because government can break into it, or because
>> nobody can break into it?
>>
>> Are google, facebook (and similar) in bussines (they carries about own
>> customers) or long hand of government?
>>
>> Are people out of USA less than these come from USA (because USA tells,
>> that all is OK, because no USA citizens are taken)?
>>
>> regards
> is more cheap kill somebody than track it
I was cca 20 years in our army. I know about killing little more, than
> Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
> Mail number: 2
> Date: Tue, Jun 25, 2013
> In reply to: Slavko
>>
>> Dňa 25.06.2013 02:05 låzaro wrote / napísal(a):
>>> Make yourself this question:
>>>
>>> I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
>>
>> There are more questions:
>>
>> How CIA (NSA, FBI, etc) will know, that the mail is from me and because
>> i am not important for them, then they will not scan it?
>>
>> I am not important for our police, then policeman can go into my home
>> always, when they want?
>>
>> Need i demonstrate, that i am not important by allowing (tolerating)
>> scanning of my communication?
>>
>> Is something privacy, because government can break into it, or because
>> nobody can break into it?
>>
>> Are google, facebook (and similar) in bussines (they carries about own
>> customers) or long hand of government?
>>
>> Are people out of USA less than these come from USA (because USA tells,
>> that all is OK, because no USA citizens are taken)?
>>
>> regards
> is more cheap kill somebody than track it
only from TV or own fantasy...
> free your mind, we are Mr. Nobodys...
know, that nobody (who can nothing) is only one - who is doing nothing.
It is more than possible, that i will change nothing, but i will never
tolerate similar things, because tolerating is first step to acceptance.
I am a human, i have the rights and the privacy, then i am not nobody!
If you want to be nobody, you can (you are free), but please, do not
tell, that we all are nobody! And, please, do not forget, that the
Gandhi was nobody (for Gross Brittany) too and what this nobody did...
IMO tolerating the privacy braking is start of way, which the Plato
described as way from democracy into dictate. And finally, there is
something, named "UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS"
(http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights):
Article 12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy,
^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against
such interference or attacks.
If anybody takes into my communication by any way (personally or
machinely), he breaks my human rights! And this is a war, mentioned
early by someone in this thread.
Chris Bannister
Jun 25, 2013, 8:00:02 PM6/25/13
to
[Please don't top post on this list.]
On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 08:05:04PM -0400, l�zaro wrote:
> Make yourself this question:
>
>
> I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
>
> There have not another way for waste CIA's time and money than look
> for me; a Mr. Nobody?
>
> Why CIAS's HDD space shall used to store info about ME? What I have that
> their concern so much for waste HDD space?
>
> Would be me a terrorist but I do not know? My family or friends are
> terrorist?
>
> If I'm would be so important, their just recruited me long time ago.
>
> KILL SOMEBODY is more cheap and efficient than track it
>
> That SPY movies are hurting my mind. Should I stop seen it?
>
>
> After that... you will feel better person and less paranoiac...
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
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låzaro
Jun 26, 2013, 10:50:01 AM6/26/13
to
In my country, a terrorist plant bombs in hotels long time ago...
While government check data communicationI I will sleep quiet thinking that
at less, if somebody plan put another bomb, will be not via phone...
Nobody shoot here, nobody put a bomb car. Government controlling all. We
are safe.
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
Mail number: 3
While government check data communicationI I will sleep quiet thinking that
at less, if somebody plan put another bomb, will be not via phone...
Nobody shoot here, nobody put a bomb car. Government controlling all. We
are safe.
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
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låzaro
Jun 26, 2013, 10:50:02 AM6/26/13
to
Thread name: "Re: counter-PRISM PRISM - Re: wacky question"
Mail number: 4
Date: Wed, Jun 26, 2013
In reply to: Chris Bannister
>
>
>
>
> [Please don't top post on this list.]
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 08:05:04PM -0400, låzaro wrote:
> > Make yourself this question:
> >
> >
> > I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
> >
> > There have not another way for waste CIA's time and money than look
> > for me; a Mr. Nobody?
> >
> > Why CIAS's HDD space shall used to store info about ME? What I have that
> > their concern so much for waste HDD space?
> >
> > Would be me a terrorist but I do not know? My family or friends are
> > terrorist?
> >
> > If I'm would be so important, their just recruited me long time ago.
> >
> > KILL SOMEBODY is more cheap and efficient than track it
> >
> > That SPY movies are hurting my mind. Should I stop seen it?
> >
> >
> > After that... you will feel better person and less paranoiac...
please, sorry, I always forget that
> > Make yourself this question:
> >
> >
> > I'm soooooooo important? The CIA is looking for me?
> >
> > There have not another way for waste CIA's time and money than look
> > for me; a Mr. Nobody?
> >
> > Why CIAS's HDD space shall used to store info about ME? What I have that
> > their concern so much for waste HDD space?
> >
> > Would be me a terrorist but I do not know? My family or friends are
> > terrorist?
> >
> > If I'm would be so important, their just recruited me long time ago.
> >
> > KILL SOMEBODY is more cheap and efficient than track it
> >
> > That SPY movies are hurting my mind. Should I stop seen it?
> >
> >
> > After that... you will feel better person and less paranoiac...
This is my last email in this off-topic and unsence thread
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Andrei POPESCU
Jun 26, 2013, 12:40:02 PM6/26/13
to
On Mi, 26 iun 13, 10:41:24, låzaro wrote:
> In my country, a terrorist plant bombs in hotels long time ago...
>
> While government check data communicationI I will sleep quiet thinking that
> at less, if somebody plan put another bomb, will be not via phone...
>
> Nobody shoot here, nobody put a bomb car. Government controlling all. We
> are safe.
Yes, I remember that kind of safety, here in Romania, which is why I'll
> In my country, a terrorist plant bombs in hotels long time ago...
>
> While government check data communicationI I will sleep quiet thinking that
> at less, if somebody plan put another bomb, will be not via phone...
>
> Nobody shoot here, nobody put a bomb car. Government controlling all. We
> are safe.
dare to quote you this:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Benjamin Franklin
Kind regards,
Andrei
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