Have we considered a codename 'rolling' for testing before?

[Martin Stadtler]

Hi All,

I am certain this has come up in the past, but have we considered adding the codename/label rolling to testing?  I have looked through the mail lists, with nothing jumping out recently.  I know I am not the only one that does use testing, at least in part for this reason.  Also, if there is a better debian mailing list for this subject, just let me know.

1.  Motivation:  Why? Because I had an eye-opening experience recently with a discord channel  'Linux on Asus ROG', where they essentially discouraged Debian outright.  Paraphrasing this a little: Avoid using Ubuntu or distributions based on Ubuntu, such as Debian, on newer devices. As its kernel version is outdated and lacks timely updates, potentially hindering the performance of your laptop. You might face compatibility issues with recent hardware, instead, you might want to look into Fedora or Arch for better support.  Ignore the mix-up around what comes first, Ubuntu or Debian, already mentioned that.

They do have a point, consider it a canary in the coal mine for other projects not recommending Debian.  If the perception of the wording 'testing' is scaring away many that would be open to a rolling version of Debian. With all the risk, possible danger and adventures that come with it, as one does with Arch or other rolling releases, we should look at how to change that fear.

2, Proposal:  Propose the addition of “Debian Rolling” as a complementary codename/label for the existing Debian Testing branch. This initiative is intended to enhance the visibility and understanding of the continuous update cycle that the Testing branch offers, without replacing or diminishing its current role and identity.

3.  Motivation Behind the Proposal:

* Enhanced Clarity and Appeal: The codename/label “Debian Rolling” is intended to provide clearer insight into the nature of the Testing branch for those unfamiliar with Debian's development cycle, potentially attracting users interested in a blend of stability and freshness in software.
* Broadening User Base: By introducing “Debian Rolling,” we can cater to a segment of the Linux community that prefers rolling releases, without steering away from the stability and reliability that Debian Testing offers.
* Community Engagement: This additional name aims to encourage more users to participate in the testing phase, contributing to a more robust and stable future for Debian, driven by increased testing and feedback.

4. Alternative: Maybe just clearly stating that debian testing is used as a 'rolling release' may help resolve such situations as the one that I am pointing out.  I would prefer the codename/label for sure, being pragmatic wording in the wiki may suffice to clarify, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting.  The last thing I think we all want to avoid is where upstream projects do not consider debian when developing their software, due to misunderstandings.

wdyt?

/mes

--

Martin Stadler

mar...@sansnom.co.uk

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 04:39:50PM +0000, Martin Stadtler wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am certain this has come up in the past, but have we considered adding
> the codename/label rolling to testing? I have looked through the mail
> lists, with nothing jumping out recently. I know I am not the only one
> that does use testing, at least in part for this reason. Also, if there is
> a better debian mailing list for this subject, just let me know.

Interesting proposal all around -- just that /if/ there is a suite
in Debian you could call "rolling", then it's unstable, not testing.

Testing has those freeze phases, just before it becomes the "next
stable" -- with the corresponding rushes of instability just after.

The whole process is pretty well thought out and we Debian users
do appreciate it.

> 1. Motivation: Why? Because I had an eye-opening experience recently with
> a discord channel 'Linux on Asus ROG', where they essentially discouraged

> Debian outright. Paraphrasing this a little: *Avoid using Ubuntu or
> distributions based on Ubuntu, such as Debian, on newer devices [...]

I would take this person's advice about Debian with a grain of salt
(or three), since they don't even seem to know that Ubuntu is based
on Debian (and not the other way around).

Actually Debian is, AFAIK, the living distro which has the most [1]
derivatives, so it seems to be doing one or two things right :-)

Cheers

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution
--
tomás

[Andrey Rakhmatullin]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 04:39:50PM +0000, Martin Stadtler wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I am certain this has come up in the past, but have we considered adding
> the codename/label rolling to testing?

Hard to say, as things that are usually proposed, like ones listed on
https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseProposals, are about making some actual
workflow changes. But if your proposal implies telling end users to use
testing that's mostly https://wiki.debian.org/DropStableJustUseTesting.

> They do have a point, consider it a canary in the coal mine for other
> projects not recommending Debian. If the perception of the wording
> 'testing' is scaring away many that would be open to a rolling version of
> Debian.

It's by design. Testing has several quite specific problems, at least some
of which directly impact end users. While the Debian release process
requires that at least some people use testing, it also implies that end
users shouldn't use testing and it requires that testing behaves
differently from a rolling distro.
There were proposals in the past, some even doing some actual work, to
make testing more useful for end users, and that's quite different from
simply renaming it.

> 3. Motivation Behind the Proposal:
> * Enhanced Clarity and Appeal: The codename/label “Debian Rolling” is
> intended to provide clearer insight into the nature of the Testing branch
> for those unfamiliar with Debian's development cycle, potentially
> attracting users interested in a blend of stability and freshness in
> software.

That reduces clarity because that's not the nature of the Testing branch.
Are you maybe also unfamiliar with Debian's development cycle?

> 4. Alternative: Maybe just clearly stating that debian testing is used as a
> 'rolling release'

It is not.