Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? (was: [SECURITY] [DSA 5113-1] firefox-esr security update)

Paul Daniel

unread,

Apr 13, 2022, 1:10:03 PM4/13/22

to

unsubscribe

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Friedhelm Waitzmann <fach2204...@xoxy.net> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Dear Moritz!

Moritz Mühlenhoff:
>Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
>>> For the oldstable distribution (buster), these problems have
>>> been fixed in version 91.8.0esr-1~deb10u1.
>>
>> Where can I get this from for buster and architecture i386?
>> <http://security.debian.org/debian-security/dists/buster/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages.xz>
>> does not have it.

>The Firefox ESR91 series triggers an internal compiler error
>with the GCC version included in Debian 10, so there's no build
>available currently.

Thank you for defining this.

>There's one for Debian 11 (where GCC builds it correctly),
>

In the near future I will migrate to Debian 11.

>but I'd instead suggest to switch to amd64 instead.
>

You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware

1#

vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 22
model name : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 440 @ 2.00GHz
stepping : 1
microcode : 0x43
cpu MHz : 1229.629
cache size : 512 KB

and

2#

vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 15
model : 2
model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
stepping : 4
cpu MHz : 1993.656
cache size : 512 KB

?

And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
amd64? Can this be done with the apt tools? Then during the
migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
will be still i386. How does that go right?

I suggest, that further discussing should take place in
debian...@lists.debian.org.

Kind regards,
Friedhelm

My OpenPGP‐Key:

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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=Dl6i
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQFOBAEBCgA4FiEEzf8af16GP0HJOpBzgEIvCiHZTesFAmJU+IkaHGZhY2gyMjA0
MDguZnduc3BAeG94eS5uZXQACgkQgEIvCiHZTes+kgf+JNvqEsOzHnGAzzcthB6+
MEDj4LgFPN3ZwttzOz62k+yHUvYtffjdoyXfoiwDkCDBhFUAC46r0rcy12pspzQU
PQ/2SXTd08FuWiMtLRMGm5wYN5WTDp7NFXWqlmtwYe9zz98PgYc9SGToRr10yVwg
Xsv9ZwxFMZyupkLlTt4yLZoIGdM3oHOXhZlzaG/QG4WNDo/PBOHcAODOPVP1TEJH
nCj64nrZwB5hNykdFzVO0caiaoaBKybud3dAbYU6gIjJOZ/wEDTJa2sbdvKwryPE
ofYqWK7UgPv+DJhU+bk6c0vgTTbD6gN9jb2sLkyhM6GjkHjSM58rcmaApppbb0Ls
Cg==
=pE5x
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Marianne Bayoy

unread,

Apr 13, 2022, 1:30:03 PM4/13/22

to

Unsubscribe

Jeffrey Walton

unread,

Apr 13, 2022, 1:40:02 PM4/13/22

to

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 1:22 PM Marianne Bayoy <marian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Unsubscribe

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/unsubscribe

Paul Wise

unread,

Apr 14, 2022, 4:40:03 AM4/14/22

to

On Tue, 2022-04-12 at 05:59 +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:

> And if it is indeed possible, how can I switch from i386 to
> amd64? Can this be done with the apt tools? Then during the
> migrating some packages will be from amd64 already while others
> will be still i386. How does that go right?

If your hardware supports it, you can either reinstall from scratch or
cross-grade an existing install from i386 to amd64, either using the
crossgrader tool or more manual methods of doing the same thing.

https://packages.debian.org/crossgrader
https://wiki.debian.org/CrossGrading

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

signature.asc

Lennart Sorensen

unread,

Apr 14, 2022, 11:10:02 PM4/14/22

to

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 03:45:37PM +0200, Levis Yarema wrote:
> Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
> choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
> support?

Twice the registers and sse instructions for fpu rather than x87?

--
Len Sorensen

Elmar Stellnberger

unread,

Apr 15, 2022, 4:20:02 AM4/15/22

to

On 14.04.22 15:45, Levis Yarema wrote:
> Is there in deed any reason to prefer amd64 over i586 if you have the
> choice and a machine with 2GB RAM or less, apart from perhaps long term
> support?
>

Depends on the application. Encryption and decryption
requiring the simulation of very larger integers shall be faster
when being based on 64bit integers. However these are rather
special purposes.
CPU and memory intense applications like the SAT-solver I am
developing on the other hand will be faster on i386 since a
memory reference/ pointer only requires 4 byte instead of 8
byte. Smaller size will yield less memory access cycles and more
cache hits and that can make an application considerably faster.
It is the cache that is effectively more important than the
register layout. Some SAT-solvers like f.i. the DNNF-c2d are
only available for Linux/i386, not for amd64.
Concerning general purpose applications normal integers keep
to be 32bit even on amd64. Note the sizeof(int). This is also
for the rationale described above. x86_32 programs can even be
smaller on disk and in memory. I personally don´t think that
there is much reason to use amd64 with 2GB ram or less, except
for bigint calculations.
Note however that with a 64bit kernel you can execute programs
in a 64bit and 32bit chroot while this is impossible with a
32bit kernel. This is a reason why many people boot with a 64bit
kernel but use a 32bit installation. As for certain CPU and
memory intense programs you can run them as i386 binary even on
an x86_64 root given that i386 system libararies are installed
which is possible with dpkg --add-architecture i386.

Hendrik Boom

unread,

Apr 15, 2022, 10:30:03 AM4/15/22

to

And i you're runnin Lisp programs, you'll definitely want a 32-bit architecture, because Lisp fills memory with addresses. But you can do that with add-architecture i286.

-- hendrik

Hendrik Boom

unread,

Apr 15, 2022, 11:00:02 AM4/15/22

to

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:18:17AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
...
...

>
> And i you're runnin Lisp programs, you'll definitely want a 32-bit architecture, because Lisp fills memory with addresses. But you can do that with add-architecture i286.

Typo: Of course I meant i386.

>
> -- hendrik
>

Lennart Sorensen

unread,

Apr 17, 2022, 3:50:03 PM4/17/22

to

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 09:07:10AM +0200, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
> That is not correct. You can make use of SSE instructions also in
> x86_32/i386 mode.
>
> I found f.i.:
> https://gcc.gcc.gnu.narkive.com/k0KqaZF2/i386-sse-test-question

Well x86_64 uses it all the time, not just optionally, and twice the
registers still matters.

--
Len Sorensen