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Laurent Lesage
Aug 22, 2012, 10:00:03 AM8/22/12
to
Hello all,
I don't know if it is the right place for this kind of questions -
please let me know.
I'm using sheeva plugs as asterisk servers wit debian armel ports. I've
used the instructions on MArtin's site
(http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/) to get the plugs
run. I used SD cards at the beginning, but I found that USB keys were
quicker to read/write and used usb keys. My first problem is that I got
2 keys "burned", i.e. following a power outage, I cannot write anymore
on those keys (cannot create a file system on it). I used the
"commit=120, noatime" mount options to avoid too many writes on it but
it seems there has been another problem. the systems ran 1 or 2 years
without problem.
**So my first question : does anybody have such an experience with
similar usage and similar problems with usb keys for System+storage?
I tried to revert to SD card. I tried a SDHC sony (not a recent one bu a
new one). I restored the system on it and it worked ... during one or
2weeks. After that, the system could not write on the card any more. the
system was stil running but with lots of write errors. I restored the
system once more. One day later, same problem. It seems that the SD card
is not "suited" for that usage. But directly connected to another
computer, it seems OK and I can read/write on it, though it is not as
quick as the USB key I used before.
I restored the system once more. first boot quite slow but ok. Then,
failed on 2dn boot (a "screen log" file of the console is attached). it
seems that the plug is messing up the filesystem on the sd card and
can't use it.
** so my second question : is it possible that the driver for the SD
card causes some problem? Or must I use some specific SD card so that it
may run (may be a quicker one?) Is there a possibility to tune some
parameters on the debian system or on the plug so that it can wait if
the card is a bit slow?
thank you for your answers.
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Laurent Lesage
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I don't know if it is the right place for this kind of questions -
please let me know.
I'm using sheeva plugs as asterisk servers wit debian armel ports. I've
used the instructions on MArtin's site
(http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/) to get the plugs
run. I used SD cards at the beginning, but I found that USB keys were
quicker to read/write and used usb keys. My first problem is that I got
2 keys "burned", i.e. following a power outage, I cannot write anymore
on those keys (cannot create a file system on it). I used the
"commit=120, noatime" mount options to avoid too many writes on it but
it seems there has been another problem. the systems ran 1 or 2 years
without problem.
**So my first question : does anybody have such an experience with
similar usage and similar problems with usb keys for System+storage?
I tried to revert to SD card. I tried a SDHC sony (not a recent one bu a
new one). I restored the system on it and it worked ... during one or
2weeks. After that, the system could not write on the card any more. the
system was stil running but with lots of write errors. I restored the
system once more. One day later, same problem. It seems that the SD card
is not "suited" for that usage. But directly connected to another
computer, it seems OK and I can read/write on it, though it is not as
quick as the USB key I used before.
I restored the system once more. first boot quite slow but ok. Then,
failed on 2dn boot (a "screen log" file of the console is attached). it
seems that the plug is messing up the filesystem on the sd card and
can't use it.
** so my second question : is it possible that the driver for the SD
card causes some problem? Or must I use some specific SD card so that it
may run (may be a quicker one?) Is there a possibility to tune some
parameters on the debian system or on the plug so that it can wait if
the card is a bit slow?
thank you for your answers.
--
Laurent Lesage
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Laurent Lesage
Aug 22, 2012, 10:10:02 AM8/22/12
to
Hello again,
just an idea : I can find cheap "old SATA 3G" SSD disk + usb box. Should
it be a good solution? For, say, 50 $, I can get 32 GB and those SSD
seems much more reliable.
I'm interested in your opinions (and in answers to my first post!)
thanks ahead
--
Laurent Lesage
Laurent Lesage a �crit :
just an idea : I can find cheap "old SATA 3G" SSD disk + usb box. Should
it be a good solution? For, say, 50 $, I can get 32 GB and those SSD
seems much more reliable.
I'm interested in your opinions (and in answers to my first post!)
thanks ahead
--
Laurent Lesage
Laurent Lesage a �crit :
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Tixy
Aug 22, 2012, 3:40:01 PM8/22/12
to
On Wed, 2012-08-22 at 15:55 +0200, Laurent Lesage wrote:
> I'm using sheeva plugs as asterisk servers wit debian armel ports. I've
> used the instructions on MArtin's site
> (http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/) to get the plugs
> run. I used SD cards at the beginning, but I found that USB keys were
> quicker to read/write and used usb keys.
<snip>
> I'm using sheeva plugs as asterisk servers wit debian armel ports. I've
> used the instructions on MArtin's site
> (http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/) to get the plugs
> run. I used SD cards at the beginning, but I found that USB keys were
> quicker to read/write and used usb keys.
> I tried to revert to SD card. I tried a SDHC sony (not a recent one bu a
> new one). I restored the system on it and it worked ... during one or
> 2weeks. After that, the system could not write on the card any more. the
> system was stil running but with lots of write errors. I restored the
> system once more. One day later, same problem. It seems that the SD card
> is not "suited" for that usage.
I've been using a eSata Sheevaplug running Debain for a couple of years
> new one). I restored the system on it and it worked ... during one or
> 2weeks. After that, the system could not write on the card any more. the
> system was stil running but with lots of write errors. I restored the
> system once more. One day later, same problem. It seems that the SD card
> is not "suited" for that usage.
as a router/DNS/NAS/MTA system with the root filesystem on an SD card.
I've never had any problem with this setup. That doesn't help solve you
problems but is an indication that using and SD card isn't fundamentally
flaky.
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Rick Thomas
Aug 22, 2012, 7:20:01 PM8/22/12
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There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards on Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so far is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey picky about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many people have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card from a slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of intermittent problems.
Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
Rick
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Jan Flyborg
Aug 23, 2012, 4:20:02 AM8/23/12
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I haven't done any research, but I thought using an SD-card was faster
than using a USB-stick?
//Jan
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than using a USB-stick?
//Jan
Jan Flyborg CTO - Esentus Technology AB - www.esentus.com - +46 702
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John Reiser
Aug 23, 2012, 9:10:01 AM8/23/12
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> I thought using an SD-card was faster than using a USB-stick?
It can be, except that many times an SD-socket is USB internally.
The USB circuitry merely moved from inside the flash memory stick,
across the plug/socket boundary, and onto the main circuit board.
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John Reiser
Aug 23, 2012, 9:10:02 AM8/23/12
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Beware of heat. Do not obstruct the vents. Free air on 5.5 sides
(rubber feet giving clearance on the bottom) at 25C might not be
cool enough. Use a separate power supply for USB devices,
especially rotating harddrives. Run "lsusb -v" and check the
MaxPower ratings; some flash memory devices draw more current
than others. (MaxPower is not always reliable, however.)
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(rubber feet giving clearance on the bottom) at 25C might not be
cool enough. Use a separate power supply for USB devices,
especially rotating harddrives. Run "lsusb -v" and check the
MaxPower ratings; some flash memory devices draw more current
than others. (MaxPower is not always reliable, however.)
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Tixy
Aug 23, 2012, 1:40:02 PM8/23/12
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On Thu, 2012-08-23 at 06:10 -0700, John Reiser wrote:
> > I thought using an SD-card was faster than using a USB-stick?
>
> It can be, except that many times an SD-socket is USB internally.
> The USB circuitry merely moved from inside the flash memory stick,
> across the plug/socket boundary, and onto the main circuit board.
Sheevaplug is a real MMC, the newer Guru- and Dream-plugs from
> > I thought using an SD-card was faster than using a USB-stick?
>
> It can be, except that many times an SD-socket is USB internally.
> The USB circuitry merely moved from inside the flash memory stick,
> across the plug/socket boundary, and onto the main circuit board.
GlobalScale are USB :-(
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Rick Thomas
Aug 23, 2012, 2:50:02 PM8/23/12
to
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 1:10 AM, Rick Thomas <rbth...@pobox.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards
>> on Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so
>> far is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey
>> picky about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many
>> people have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card
>> from a slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of
>> intermittent problems.
>>
>> Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
>>
>> Rick
On Aug 23, 2012, at 1:15 AM, Jan Flyborg wrote:
> I haven't done any research, but I thought using an SD-card was faster
> than using a USB-stick?
>
> //Jan
Rick replies:
> I haven't done any research, but I thought using an SD-card was faster
> than using a USB-stick?
>
> //Jan
I haven't done any research either, so you may be right. But fast and
flakey is not as good as slower (but fast enough) and reliable.
I'm just reporting what I've seen in the mailing lists and wikis.
Rick
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mick
Aug 23, 2012, 3:10:02 PM8/23/12
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:10:14 -0700
Rick Thomas <rbth...@pobox.com> allegedly wrote:
>
> There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards on
> Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so far
> is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey picky
> about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many people
> have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card from a
> slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of intermittent
> problems.
>
> Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
>
> Rick
>
I had persistent problems with SD cards when I first bought a
Rick Thomas <rbth...@pobox.com> allegedly wrote:
>
> There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards on
> Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so far
> is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey picky
> about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many people
> have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card from a
> slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of intermittent
> problems.
>
> Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
>
> Rick
>
sheevaplug back in 2010. (See http://baldric.net/2010/03/30/unplugged/
for example). My problems only disappeared when I moved to using a
(powered) USB disk as boot and filesystem.
Mick
---------------------------------------------------------------------
blog: baldric.net
fingerprint: FC23 3338 F664 5E66 876B 72C0 0A1F E60B 5BAD D312
Note that I have recently upgraded my GPG key see:
http://baldric.net/2012/07/20/gpg-key-upgrade/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DrEagle
Aug 23, 2012, 3:50:02 PM8/23/12
to
Le 23/08/2012 21:00, mick a écrit :
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:10:14 -0700
> Rick Thomas <rbth...@pobox.com> allegedly wrote:
>
>>
>> There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards on
>> Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so far
>> is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey picky
>> about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many people
>> have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card from a
>> slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of intermittent
>> problems.
>>
>> Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> I had persistent problems with SD cards when I first bought a
> sheevaplug back in 2010. (See http://baldric.net/2010/03/30/unplugged/
> for example). My problems only disappeared when I moved to using a
> (powered) USB disk as boot and filesystem.
>
> Mick
The master problem about SDHC/MMC is that the driver is a quick
> On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:10:14 -0700
> Rick Thomas <rbth...@pobox.com> allegedly wrote:
>
>>
>> There have been persistent reports of flaky results with SD cards on
>> Sheeva (and other) Plug devices. The best theory I've heard so far
>> is that the SD interface hardware/software in the Plugs is vey picky
>> about the specs and timing of the SD card interface. Many people
>> have no problems for years, but if you happen to pick a card from a
>> slightly out-of-spec batch, you will have no end of intermittent
>> problems.
>>
>> Why not just go back to using a USB flash stick?
>>
>> Rick
>>
>
> I had persistent problems with SD cards when I first bought a
> sheevaplug back in 2010. (See http://baldric.net/2010/03/30/unplugged/
> for example). My problems only disappeared when I moved to using a
> (powered) USB disk as boot and filesystem.
>
> Mick
adaptation of the Marvell U-Boot for denx u-boot.
It's not ported, nor maintained and not very tested by Marvell and
community.
I wrote it a few time ago to get the basic SDHC/MMC support into denx
u-boot, but the code is still buggy.
In my opinion, the mvsdio driver from Linux kernel might be ported to
denx to be mainline. I do not get it working for now...
The code for sdio driver from marvell u-boot was buggy and was just
ported without debugging.
It might work, might not.
The best method is to use NAND, USB stick are not fast enough and may be
broken also (I have a USB key drop unwritable after using it with a
sheevaplugs).
May be it is bug free now, with the latest git denx u-boot.
The IDE (SATA) for kirkwood from the git denx u-boot is now bugless and
fast enough to use in production with eSATA Sheevaplug and Kirkwood NAS
base.
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Laurent Lesage
Aug 24, 2012, 8:50:02 AM8/24/12
to
Thank you all for your opinion and experiences.
I confirm that I got nearly all the problems described by some of you :
-some SD card work, some don't.
-when they work, they have slower access than USB sticks.
-when they works, it happens that they suddenly become "read-only". The system continue to work but with lots of delays (of course, when the "disk" is RO, processes accessing the disk are "waiting" and the CPU uses more than 90% "waiting") - I don't know how it can continue worling but it does!
-The sd card I could'nt restart finally works (I used another PC to write on it - it seems that the SD slot of my netbook is not that good.... I used an usb multifunction docking station for SATA/SD/MS, TF cards, and it seems to get better results when wirintg to SD cards).
-I got a (not cheap) USB stick burned with the sheeva plug after a power outage. I got another one (a cheap one, not surprising) burned and terribly hot after a few days.
I also read that there was a patch for the kernel to use the SD cards, but, as said, using the new DENX uboot, didn't make the things better - and this seems to mean that this "driver" is not good enough to rely on.
As my sheeva is used as pbx, I must be able to rely on it. So I've bought a SATA SSD 32Go NAND flash disk and a box to connect it to USB. It is 2x the price but for 30 euros more, I should gain a few hours of time and have a really reliable system. I have systems running in Africa and it would be difficult for me to get the usb console from there... I will test the solution and I think I will change the usb keys on all the sheeva's running...
I'll keep the list informed ...
thanks again
DrEagle a écrit :
I confirm that I got nearly all the problems described by some of you :
-some SD card work, some don't.
-when they work, they have slower access than USB sticks.
-when they works, it happens that they suddenly become "read-only". The system continue to work but with lots of delays (of course, when the "disk" is RO, processes accessing the disk are "waiting" and the CPU uses more than 90% "waiting") - I don't know how it can continue worling but it does!
-The sd card I could'nt restart finally works (I used another PC to write on it - it seems that the SD slot of my netbook is not that good.... I used an usb multifunction docking station for SATA/SD/MS, TF cards, and it seems to get better results when wirintg to SD cards).
-I got a (not cheap) USB stick burned with the sheeva plug after a power outage. I got another one (a cheap one, not surprising) burned and terribly hot after a few days.
I also read that there was a patch for the kernel to use the SD cards, but, as said, using the new DENX uboot, didn't make the things better - and this seems to mean that this "driver" is not good enough to rely on.
As my sheeva is used as pbx, I must be able to rely on it. So I've bought a SATA SSD 32Go NAND flash disk and a box to connect it to USB. It is 2x the price but for 30 euros more, I should gain a few hours of time and have a really reliable system. I have systems running in Africa and it would be difficult for me to get the usb console from there... I will test the solution and I think I will change the usb keys on all the sheeva's running...
I'll keep the list informed ...
thanks again
-- Laurent Lesage
DrEagle a écrit :
DrEagle
Aug 24, 2012, 9:30:02 AM8/24/12
to
Another intersting behaviour of the SD, USB and SSD also is the write
deadlocks :
see few attempts to get explain at my fastbench page [1].
Regards,
[1] https://doukki.net/doku.php?id=wiki:tutoriels:fastbench
deadlocks :
see few attempts to get explain at my fastbench page [1].
Regards,
[1] https://doukki.net/doku.php?id=wiki:tutoriels:fastbench
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Laurent Lesage
Aug 28, 2012, 3:40:02 PM8/28/12
to
Hello all,
Today, I got my ssd disk (Crucial 32 Gb "old" sata 3Gb/s) with USB box.
As expected, my pbx running with my SD card could not be stopped (lots of "error -110" -- problems with the speed of writing to SD card). I could recover the FS on the ssd drive. Of course, I do not have the "true" speed of ssd but I see :
-34 MB/s reading large file
-17 MB/s writing
which is 2x slower than what I get on my old server with a soft RAID on hard drives.
BUT I get nearly the same write speed if I copy an entire directory, which is then 10x faster than my HD on the server.
As my sheeva is a pbx essentially, it is far more reactive now. I'll see in one or 2 year and try not to forget to inform you.... But I think this is the way to go to avoid spending time recovering my system... and to have my customer happy!
The SSD drive is totally cold - which means it uses far less power than the sheeva it self.
best regards,
Today, I got my ssd disk (Crucial 32 Gb "old" sata 3Gb/s) with USB box.
As expected, my pbx running with my SD card could not be stopped (lots of "error -110" -- problems with the speed of writing to SD card). I could recover the FS on the ssd drive. Of course, I do not have the "true" speed of ssd but I see :
-34 MB/s reading large file
-17 MB/s writing
which is 2x slower than what I get on my old server with a soft RAID on hard drives.
BUT I get nearly the same write speed if I copy an entire directory, which is then 10x faster than my HD on the server.
As my sheeva is a pbx essentially, it is far more reactive now. I'll see in one or 2 year and try not to forget to inform you.... But I think this is the way to go to avoid spending time recovering my system... and to have my customer happy!
The SSD drive is totally cold - which means it uses far less power than the sheeva it self.
best regards,
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