Re: Question about Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.106

[Martin Steigerwald]

Hi Merlin,

Merlin Cooper - 15.05.23, 16:35:59 CEST:
> Are there any plans to upload Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.106 to
> Unstable and unblock them for inclusion in Testing? The Full Freeze
> is coming up soon, and Unstable / Testing are still stuck on Plasma
> 5.27.2 and Frameworks 5.103. The newer versions fix tons of bugs
> (including many Wayland bugs), so their inclusion in Debian 12 would
> be supremely appreciated by Debian KDE users.

Please see

bug #1035056 [pre-approval] plasma-desktop 5.27.X

https://bugs.debian.org/1035056

As well as IRC channel #debian-qt-kde

Best,
--
Martin

[Timothy M Butterworth]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 10:51 AM Merlin Cooper <mxanthr...@outlook.com> wrote:

(I accidentally sent this email directly to Coufcouf and DeltaOne, I should have posted it to the list... sorry!)

Hello,

Are there any plans to upload Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.106 to Unstable and unblock them for inclusion in Testing? The Full Freeze is coming up soon, and Unstable / Testing are still stuck on Plasma 5.27.2 and Frameworks 5.103. The newer versions fix tons of bugs (including many Wayland bugs), so their inclusion in Debian 12 would be supremely appreciated by Debian KDE users.

I see no reason why an unblock request wouldn't be granted considering GNOME 43.4 was allowed to migrate recently, and these new versions focus only on fixing bugs rather than adding features.

I hope you consider uploading Plasma 5.27.5 and Frameworks 5.106 to Unstable, and requesting an unblock so they can migrate to Testing and be included in Debian 12, that way Debian KDE users can have the best possible experience.

You are not alone. I would also like to see plasma 5.27.5 or newer updated in Bookworm. 

Tim

 

Thank you for all your hard work!

Merlin

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

[Luc Castermans]

Hi

On top and for the record.

I installed all of KDE, plasma 5.25.5 etc. from Experimental yesterday.   The upgrade went smooth, all worked well.

Thanks!!

Luc

Op ma 15 mei 2023 om 17:53 schreef Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de>:

--

Luc Castermans
mailto:luc.cas...@gmail.com

[Martin Steigerwald]

Hi Luc.

Luc Castermans - 16.05.23, 07:11:33 CEST:

> On top and for the record.
>
> I installed all of KDE, plasma 5.25.5 etc. from Experimental
> yesterday. The upgrade went smooth, all worked well.

Installing as well.

I don't know whether it helps if some users "vote" for its stability?
But I am willing to do so if after a few days of test there is no
regression compared to the current state.

Ciao,
--
Martin

[Luc Castermans]

+1

Op 19-05-2023 om 09:00 schreef Martin Steigerwald:

m.vr.gr.

Luc Castermans
mailto:luc.cas...@gmail.com

[Martin Steigerwald]

Hi,

Martin Steigerwald - 19.05.23, 09:00:37 CEST:

Please keep in mind that the release team raised valid concerns. And on
any account it is important to treat them with respect. They are doing a
challenging job on a challenging time frame. You know Debian Stable is
called stable for a reason! To ensure that it requires excellent
cooperation between the package developers and the release time. Please
respect that.

I recommend against posting to the bug report, the Qt/KDE team is doing
a marvelous job at arguing in favor of having at least the packages with
changes or at least with non-cosmetic changes from 5.27.5 in Bookworm.
Please let them do their job. In case you installed 5.27.5 from
experimental, tested it and like to vote on its stability, please do so
here. And for not on the bug report. Someone from the Qt/KDE team can
point to the thread with the votes if need be.

Plasma 5.27.5 installed here.

% aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'

% dpkg -l | grep "5\.27\.2"
[… no output …]

I bet there is a variant for this for "apt" as well, but I never looked
it up.

Please only do so if you are willing to help testing and are careful
about reading apt/aptitude output and about aborting the process in case
it likes to remove packages you'd rather want to keep. Here I had no
issues with upgrading, but that does not mean that it works on your
system as well.

Best,
--
Martin

[Sedat Dilek]

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:01 AM Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Luc.
>
> Luc Castermans - 16.05.23, 07:11:33 CEST:
> > On top and for the record.
> >
> > I installed all of KDE, plasma 5.25.5 etc. from Experimental
> > yesterday. The upgrade went smooth, all worked well.
>
> Installing as well.
>

Hi Martin, Hi Luc,

Can you share how you upgraded to KDE/Plasma version 5.25.5?

Thanks.

Best regards,
-Sedat-

[Martin Steigerwald]

Martin Steigerwald - 19.05.23, 09:19:31 CEST:

> I recommend against posting to the bug report, the Qt/KDE team is
> doing a marvelous job at arguing in favor of having at least the
> packages with changes or at least with non-cosmetic changes from

> 5.27.5 in Bookworm. Please let them do their job. […]

Or in favor of having all of Plasma 5.27.5 in a point release for
Bookworm. For me both approaches would work well. The point is to get
those bug fixes into stable.

For my machines it does not matter, I am following unstable anyway.
However for some machines I administrate for others it makes a
difference.

Ciao,
--
Martin

[Sedat Dilek]

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:19 AM Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
...

> Plasma 5.27.5 installed here.
>
> % aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'
>
> % dpkg -l | grep "5\.27\.2"
> [… no output …]
>

Hi Martin,

I can confirm...

Installed 102 packages - upgradable packages available 102 - looks
good on a simulated upgrade.

Did you install and test KDE/Frameworks version 5.104?

Here 275 packages installed - on a simulated upgrade the same amount
of packages.

Thanks.

Best regards,
-Sedat-

[Luc Castermans]

Hi

On one machine I performed a

apt upgrade -t experimental

After which I needed to make few corrections on non-KDE related
packages. The machine is running fine!!

On the other machine the upgrade did not succeed due to failing
dependencies. It went back to stable.


Regards,

Luc



Op 19-05-2023 om 09:15 schreef Sedat Dilek:

[Martin Steigerwald]

No need to copy me directly. Actually I prefer that you do not. Creates
extra work for me.

Sedat Dilek - 19.05.23, 09:28:46 CEST:

> Did you install and test KDE/Frameworks version 5.104?

No.

I am not aware of any plans to get KDE Frameworks 5.104 or later into
Bookworm. AFAIK Frameworks consists of a lot more packages than Plasma.
I don't see how KDE Frameworks 5.104 or later can still enter Bookworm
before the release.

So I'd rather test with 5.103 for now. If that works well I intend to
give a feedback there. Then I may still decide to upgrade KF to 5.104.

I wonder whether it might be a good idea to allow for an update during
the stable cycle.

Ciao,
--
Martin

[Luc Castermans]

I installed  Frameworks 104.  All looks great!

Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12
KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.5
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.104.0
Qt Version: 5.15.8
Kernel Version: 6.3.0-0-amd64 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11
Processors: 4 × Intel® Core™ i5-4200U CPU @ 1.60GHz
Memory: 7.2 GiB of RAM
Graphics Processor: Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 4400
Manufacturer: Hewlett-Packard
Product Name: HP ProBook 430 G1
System Version: A3009CD20303

Op vr 19 mei 2023 om 09:40 schreef Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de>:

[Martin Steigerwald]

Luc Castermans - 19.05.23, 09:38:23 CEST:

> On one machine I performed a
>
> apt upgrade -t experimental

Without limiting the set of packages to upgrade? If so, you likely have
installed all packages from experimental, possibly including some that
are really experimental. One may argue whether experimental is the right
place for bug fix updates during the release cycle, but it is used that
way. However outside of release cycle it is used for test versions of
software. So you may have installed all kinds of funny and really
unstable stuff on your system.

Don't do that!

I'd never ever do that. I posted the exact aptitude call for a reason.

However maybe I am going to refrain from posting the exact commands
again, so that people need to figure it out themselves and learn about
the possible consequences.

Anyway, you get you keep the pieces if anything breaks.

> After which I needed to make few corrections on non-KDE related
> packages. The machine is running fine!!

As far as you can see after just a few minutes.

Best,
--
Martin

[Aurélien COUDERC]

Yes, useful for us there so we get some feedback that we're not talking nonsense when saying the new version is an improvement. 🙂

But please don't contact the release team directly nor comment on the unblock bug report about bit, it would only add noise and make our case more difficult.

Also if people here could find the time to try and mix some .2 and .5 packages and report back, that would be useful to confirm it doesn't break more than it fixes.
In particular mixing core components like kwin, libkscreen, plasmas workspace/desktop would be interesting tests.

We may get a signoff for some but not all packages.


Thanks all for your tests, feedback and support !

--
Aurélien

[Luc Castermans]

yep. i was lucky indeed. Only i had to repair a SSL package. LibreOffice got upgraded but i was okay with that


Luc

Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> schreef op 19 mei 2023 07:45:13 UTC:

[Aurélien COUDERC]

Le 19 mai 2023 09:39:52 GMT+02:00, Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> a écrit :
>No need to copy me directly. Actually I prefer that you do not. Creates
>extra work for me.
>
>Sedat Dilek - 19.05.23, 09:28:46 CEST:
>> Did you install and test KDE/Frameworks version 5.104?
>
>No.
>
>I am not aware of any plans to get KDE Frameworks 5.104 or later into
>Bookworm.

No we have no plans for that.

The ratio of important bug fixed vs. total number of packages to upgrade isn't worth it.

If you identify specific bugs that affect you we may try and back port individual fixes.


Happy hacking,
--
Aurélien

[Diederik de Haas]

On Friday, 19 May 2023 10:09:56 CEST Aurélien COUDERC wrote:
> Also if people here could find the time to try and mix some .2 and .5
> packages and report back, that would be useful to confirm it doesn't break
> more than it fixes. In particular mixing core components like kwin,
> libkscreen, plasmas workspace/desktop would be interesting tests.

If you have an exact list of packages + versions, I can test those exact
combinations (which seems more useful then a random mix).

[Martin Steigerwald]

Dear Aurélien

Aurélien COUDERC - 19.05.23, 10:09:56 CEST:

> But please don't contact the release team directly nor comment on the
> unblock bug report about bit, it would only add noise and make our
> case more difficult.

Thanks for your clarification. I thought so as well as an aftermath of my
mail and recommended not to send anything to the unblock bug report in
another mail.

Also thanks for your confirmation regarding KF.

Best,
--
Martin

[Sedat Dilek]

Thanks for the information I just upgraded to KP/5.27.5 (only - NOT
KF/5.104) successfully.

-Sedat-

[Sedat Dilek]

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:40 AM Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
>
> No need to copy me directly. Actually I prefer that you do not. Creates
> extra work for me.
>

In my email-client:
Reply: Martin Steigerwald
Reply-all: Martin Steigerwald + ML <--- My default (dropping you each
time is extra-time for me as well)

-Sedat-

[Sedat Dilek]

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:19 AM Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> wrote:
...

> Plasma 5.27.5 installed here.
>
> % aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'
>
> % dpkg -l | grep "5\.27\.2"
> [… no output …]
>
> I bet there is a variant for this for "apt" as well, but I never looked
> it up.
>

Just for the records:

That aptitude command marked all my packages to be (auto)removed with
status "ri" (was "ii").
(For me, aptitude is and will not be the 1st choice of upgrade-tool.)

The Good is all my packages are of versions which are really
downloadable from any Debian repositories.
So, a nice but unwanted cleanup.

-Sedat-

[Diederik de Haas]

On Friday, 19 May 2023 09:19:31 CEST Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> % aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'

You can use 'safe-upgrade' instead of 'install'

[Martin Steigerwald]

Sedat Dilek - 19.05.23, 11:24:18 CEST:

> In my email-client:
> Reply: Martin Steigerwald
> Reply-all: Martin Steigerwald + ML <--- My default (dropping you each
> time is extra-time for me as well)

Well it is easy: I provided support. I did not ask for support. In case
I decide to limit my time in providing support I will first drop
answering to mails that are in copy to me. I.e. your mails. It is simple
as that, cause I decide how I spend my time. And I may limit it,
especially in case I feel a lack of respect for the time I use to help
others along.

There can be reasons for CC to make someone aware of a mail one may
otherwise miss. I don't need that. Especially I don't need that for a
low volume mailing list like this. For each CC'd mail I receive two
copies of the mail with mailing lists for the Debian community – mailing
lists for the KDE community are set up differently. In case I reply to
the wrong one, I break the thread. And it just happened with that thread
already. I simply do not like to deal with this kind of hassle by
default.

Also please look at this Code of Conduct for Debian mailing lists:

"When replying to messages on the mailing list, do not send a carbon
copy (CC) to the original poster unless they explicitly request to be
copied."

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct

Now you either respect my wish, or you don't. And I decide what I do
with that.

Best,
--
Martin

[Luc Castermans]

Dear

I just upgraded the machine which was messed up earlier, fixed later, using:

aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'

aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.103\.0'

Now it is running

Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12
KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.5
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.104.0
Qt Version: 5.15.8

Kernel Version: 6.1.0-9-amd64 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11
Processors: 12 × AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor
Memory: 31.3 GiB of RAM
Graphics Processor: NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030/PCIe/SSE2
Manufacturer: BIOSTAR Group
Product Name: A320MH

Thank you very much team!!

Luc

Op 19-05-2023 om 10:09 schreef Aurélien COUDERC:

[Aurélien COUDERC]

You probably meant 104 for the second command otherwise I don't see the point.

[tv.debian]

19/05/2023 09:44, Luc Castermans wrote:
> I installed Frameworks 104. All looks great!
>
> Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux 12
> KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.5
> KDE Frameworks Version: 5.104.0
>

I upgraded a Sid system to both plasma and Framework, if you have
development packages installed Framework requires manual intervention in
aptitude to upgrade successfully, at least for me.

I am using Wayland only, and so far I saw a difference in how High DPI
(2K screen) is handled for Mozilla applications (Firefox and
Thunderbird, both from Debian repo). Both had their UI mangled, being
way too big and not following the rest of the system for fonts and
scaling. Also saw rapid flickering in drop-down menus in non-plasma
applications. I fixed Mozilla apps, but still got occasional flickering
breaking the use of drop-down menus.

Downgrading Plasma and Framework doesn't restore Mozilla (and possibly
other GTK) apps UI. I ended up restoring from backup to Sid.

So not all smooth, probably due to Framework and not PLasma. I will try
Plasma only this W-E.

[Martin Steigerwald]

Hi,

Aurélien COUDERC - 19.05.23, 14:41:44 CEST:

> Le 19 mai 2023 13:11:01 GMT+02:00, Luc Castermans
<luc.cas...@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >Dear
> >
> >I just upgraded the machine which was messed up earlier, fixed later,
> >using:
> >
> >aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'
> >aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.103\.0'
>
> You probably meant 104 for the second command otherwise I don't see
> the point.

The version you specify is the version you like to upgrade to
experimental. So 103 is about right.

I will postpone upgrading to 5.104 a bit longer. So far all is fine and
Plasma 5.27.5 works nicely.

Thanks,
--
Martin

[Aurélien COUDERC]

Indeed, thanks.

[Luc Castermans]

indeed. The command should have contained 104 instead of 103

Luc

Martin Steigerwald <mar...@lichtvoll.de> schreef op 19 mei 2023 13:52:24 UTC:

[Aurélien COUDERC]

Le 20 mai 2023 09:11:56 GMT+02:00, Luc Castermans <luc.cas...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>indeed. The command should have contained 104 instead of 103

Nope, Martin corrected me on that, the expression selects the packages that you *want* to upgrade so 5.103.0 / 5.27.2 are correct.

Best,
--
Aurélien

[Diederik de Haas]

On Friday, 19 May 2023 13:11:01 CEST Luc Castermans wrote:
> I just upgraded the machine which was messed up earlier, fixed later, using:
>
> aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.27\.2'
> aptitude install -t experimental '~i ~V5\.103\.0'

I hadn't upgraded to those packages, but earlier today I did reboot my laptop
and when I logged in, my desktop was completely blank and no longer had the
icons and plasma widgets I had on them.

After doing `aptitude safe-upgrade '~i~V5\.27\.2' -t experimental` and another
reboot (maybe a logout/login would be sufficient; we'll never know), I had my
normal desktop back.

I haven't yet tried upgrade Frameworks, but the Plasma package update
definitely fixed an issue on my laptop.

Cheers,
Diederik

[Luc Castermans]

i have two PC's on this level and have not seen strange behaviour as of today.

Luc

Diederik de Haas <didi....@cknow.org> schreef op 25 mei 2023 09:43:03 UTC: