Metapackage strategy for GNOME 3
Josselin Mouette
in order to get GNOME 3 from experimental installable easily by users,
I’m considering doing the metapackages soon - even if it means not
waiting for everything to be ready.
Upstream split their modules between (mostly) platform, core and
featured applications, the featured applications list still being far
from what we need on a default desktop.
I am proposing to keep the gnome-core metapackage and to use it for the
core upstream packages. The condition for that is for these to stick on
a single CD. This will probably have to be checked afterwards with the
CD team.
As for the high-level metapackages, I can envision two strategies:
* Drop gnome-desktop-environment entirely, only keeping gnome that
would include upstream featured apps in addition to the ones we
select.
* Replace it by gnome-apps that would contain upstream blessed
applications, and make gnome depend on gnome-apps.
Given the lack of clear upstream rules for featured applications, I’m
seeing the first approach work better for the long term.
We should probably keep gnome-devel as is. I’d like to use the
opportunity to rename gnome-core-devel to gnome-platform-devel, but you
can also keep the name.
I’m wondering whether gnome-accessibility still makes sense. It probably
does no harm keeping it and making gnome-core recommend it, but pushing
all of its contents to gnome-core and making accessibility a first-class
citizen like upstream does would be nice.
I don’t know what to do with gnome-office. We could probably merge its
contents directly into gnome, I don’t see the point of a specific
package.
As for the “mini”-metapackage that is gnome-session, I’m not entirely
sure. Given the number of interested people and the number of desktop
environments Debian is shipping, I think it makes more sense to propose
both GNOME and GNOME fallback as available sessions directly into GDM.
This would imply:
* gnome-session depending on gnome-shell, mutter, g-s-d, and a few
others;
* gnome-session-fallback (or -classic, or gnome2-session, or
whatever cool name you come up with) depending on gnome-panel,
metacity, g-s-d and the same others;
* gnome-session recommending gnome-session-fallback;
* gnome-core depending on both.
The alternative is a single gnome-session depending on both gnome-shell
and gnome-panel, and leaving only one way to switch to the fallback
mode, in the control center. I think it might be feasible in the future,
but I’m expecting too much backlash if we follow upstream on this right
now.
Thoughts anyone?
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Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
> * gnome-session recommending gnome-session-fallback;
Why this complexity?
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Josselin Mouette
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 09:10, Josselin Mouette <jo...@debian.org> wrote:
> > * gnome-session recommending gnome-session-fallback;
>
> Why this complexity?
Because when it can’t start because of lack of 3D support, it needs to
start the fallback mode instead.
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Kenny Hitt
On Sun, Apr 03, 2011 at 02:40:25PM +0530, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I’m wondering whether gnome-accessibility still makes sense. It probably
> does no harm keeping it and making gnome-core recommend it, but pushing
> all of its contents to gnome-core and making accessibility a first-class
> citizen like upstream does would be nice.
>
was moved into gnome-core then it would be possible to use a gtk based installer with software speech. Currently, I need special hardware
to install Debian. I know there is work to get software speech support with speakup into the next installer release, but having
additional options would be good.
Kenny
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Josselin Mouette
> I'd like to see gnome-accessibility get moved into gnome-core. I
> depend on gnome-orca for access to my desktop. I'm thinking if
> gnome-accessibility
> was moved into gnome-core then it would be possible to use a gtk based
> installer with software speech. Currently, I need special hardware
> to install Debian. I know there is work to get software speech support
> with speakup into the next installer release, but having
> additional options would be good.
The metapackage gives you what gets installed, but it isn’t used
directly within d-i.
Using orca from the graphical installer should definitely be possible
but it would require making a udeb for it and adding support in the
installer.
Cheers,
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Jordi Mallach
On Sun, Apr 03, 2011 at 02:40:25PM +0530, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I am proposing to keep the gnome-core metapackage and to use it for the
> core upstream packages. The condition for that is for these to stick on
> a single CD. This will probably have to be checked afterwards with the
> CD team.
Agreed, this can continue being the "minimal but reasonable default
desktop".
> As for the high-level metapackages, I can envision two strategies:
> * Drop gnome-desktop-environment entirely, only keeping gnome that
> would include upstream featured apps in addition to the ones we
> select.
> * Replace it by gnome-apps that would contain upstream blessed
> applications, and make gnome depend on gnome-apps.
> Given the lack of clear upstream rules for featured applications, I’m
> seeing the first approach work better for the long term.
*nod*. The name sucked anyway. :P
> We should probably keep gnome-devel as is. I’d like to use the
> opportunity to rename gnome-core-devel to gnome-platform-devel, but you
> can also keep the name.
It's a good time for package renames, and what you propose matches the
upstream name for the concept, so I'd vote for a rename.
> I’m wondering whether gnome-accessibility still makes sense. It probably
> does no harm keeping it and making gnome-core recommend it, but pushing
> all of its contents to gnome-core and making accessibility a first-class
> citizen like upstream does would be nice.
In G3, integration of the accessibility stuff is very clean and
unintrusive: it just adds an icon to the Shell bar, which for now is
mostly infrautilised.
Besides, I think it's best to make this stuff easy to use (ie by
default, not needing to install extra packages), so a big +1 from me.
> I don’t know what to do with gnome-office. We could probably merge its
> contents directly into gnome, I don’t see the point of a specific
> package.
I'm not sure. What's clear is absolutely everyone is using OOo/LO, even if
Gnumeric is better than Calc, and Abi is just no match to Writer in many
areas.
I think adding it to gnome would make sense: one less package and people
will get The GIMP easily (if gimp isn't a "featured app", I don't know
what else could be :)
> As for the “mini”-metapackage that is gnome-session, I’m not entirely
> sure. Given the number of interested people and the number of desktop
> environments Debian is shipping, I think it makes more sense to propose
> both GNOME and GNOME fallback as available sessions directly into GDM.
>
> This would imply:
> * gnome-session depending on gnome-shell, mutter, g-s-d, and a few
> others;
> * gnome-session-fallback (or -classic, or gnome2-session, or
> whatever cool name you come up with) depending on gnome-panel,
> metacity, g-s-d and the same others;
> * gnome-session recommending gnome-session-fallback;
> * gnome-core depending on both.
Sounds ok, even your cool name. :)
> The alternative is a single gnome-session depending on both gnome-shell
> and gnome-panel, and leaving only one way to switch to the fallback
> mode, in the control center. I think it might be feasible in the future,
> but I’m expecting too much backlash if we follow upstream on this right
> now.
There will be some people who will just want to use fallback as default.
Making it installable separately from the new stuff might make sense in
the long run too.
Jordi
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Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
>> I don’t know what to do with gnome-office. We could probably merge its
>> contents directly into gnome, I don’t see the point of a specific
>> package.
>
> I'm not sure. What's clear is absolutely everyone is using OOo/LO, even if
> Gnumeric is better than Calc, and Abi is just no match to Writer in many
> areas.
Maybe I'm a weird (didn't bother to check popcon), but I like gnumeric
for its being light-weight. Calc is a gorilla in comparison, and I
hardly ever use it.
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