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Debian 11 freezes on Dell Latitude e6520
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Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
Dec 26, 2021, 6:00:03 AM12/26/21
to
Hi,
I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.
From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new
installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.
I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro distro:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384
Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, but
it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to an end
for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different distro if this
problem is not solved.
Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the same
problem.
I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the kernel
to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the nouveau
driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia module and not
nouveau would be used in the live images with non-free firmware.
The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few seconds
where the system is running is capturing in a file, on another USB
stick, the output of:
# sudo dmesg -wH
I have compared it with the results of the same command on my normally
running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there any useful
information are too limited. I hesitate to send those longs files to
the list.
Any clues would be welcomed.
Cheers,
-- mol
I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.
From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new
installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.
I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro distro:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384
Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, but
it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to an end
for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different distro if this
problem is not solved.
Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the same
problem.
I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the kernel
to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the nouveau
driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia module and not
nouveau would be used in the live images with non-free firmware.
The only debugging step I have managed to take during the few seconds
where the system is running is capturing in a file, on another USB
stick, the output of:
# sudo dmesg -wH
I have compared it with the results of the same command on my normally
running Debian 10. But my capacities to extract from there any useful
information are too limited. I hesitate to send those longs files to
the list.
Any clues would be welcomed.
Cheers,
-- mol
Andrew M.A. Cater
Dec 26, 2021, 8:20:03 AM12/26/21
to
On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
> At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.
>
> From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
> live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
> without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new
> installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
>
> Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
> its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
> image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
> computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
> xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
> moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
> the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
> no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.
>
Hi Mol,
> Hi,
>
> I have been using Debian on a Dell Latitude e6520 for ten years now.
> At present, it runs without problem an up-to-date Debian 10 system.
>
> From the beginning, before upgrading to any new release, I tried its
> live image. This strategy has always successfully allowed upgrading
> without stress. Sometimes I would do an upgrade, sometimes a clean new
> installation. The latter one was the case for Debian 10.
>
> Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been testing
> its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the latest live
> image, including non-free firmware, the test is not passed. The
> computer boots well and the graphical interface (I tried my usual
> xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working. However, after a few
> moments varying from few seconds to no more than a couple of minutes,
> the system freezes completely. Impossible to open a console, there is
> no answer at all, only physical shutdown is possible.
>
How much memory? What graphics? If you have the Nvidia NV620 and 4GB
it's probably best _not_ to use the live disk - it takes a large amount
of memory to get the live CD to boot and if nouveau is not the ideal
driver then you do get lockups and similar.
If you are currently using the non-free drivers on Debian 10, then you
could, potentially just upgrade to Debian 11 on the same hardware. I do
find it easier to install a bare minimum text only system if feasible _then_
install the non-free drivers but that may not be possible for you.
All the very best, as ever,
Andy Cater
> I have searched for other people having similar problems and found a
> forum where someone described the same issue with the Manjaro distro:
>
> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=6d5881750b8f3ceb6a12708b3a7683c9&p=6287384#post6287384
>
> Unfortunately, the only advice given is to switch to another
> distribution (AntiX is mentioned) I would prefer to stay on Debian, but
> it's true that when support and security updates will arrive to an end
> for Debian 10, I will need to move anyway to a different distro if this
> problem is not solved.
>
> Incidentally, I must say that I'm also unable to run Tails on this
> machine since a few releases ago, for what looks as precisely the same
> problem.
>
> I wonder if this trouble could result from the upgrading of the kernel
> to version 5.x? Or from the newest versions of Xorg or the nouveau
> driver? By the way, I thought that the non-free nvidia module and not
> nouveau would be used in the live images with non-free firmware.
>
is a good compromise.
Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
Dec 26, 2021, 10:50:03 AM12/26/21
to
Hello Andy,
Thank you for your answer.
The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
by the legacy deb packages.
Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous
releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
image.
But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.
Cheerio!
mol
El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:17:07 +0000
"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amac...@einval.com> escribió:
Thank you for your answer.
The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
by the legacy deb packages.
Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous
releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
image.
But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.
Cheerio!
mol
El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 13:17:07 +0000
"Andrew M.A. Cater" <amac...@einval.com> escribió:
conta...@use.startmail.com
Dec 26, 2021, 11:20:02 AM12/26/21
to
Bonjour,
Comment on fait pour etre désinscrit de cette liste de diffusion svp?
Matus UHLAR - fantomas
Dec 26, 2021, 12:00:03 PM12/26/21
to
>> On Sun, Dec 26, 2021 at 11:47:27AM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
>> > Now, since Debian 11 was released earlier this year, I've been
>> > testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the
>> > latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
>> > passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
>> > tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
>> > However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
>> > than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible
>> > to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
>> > shutdown is possible.
>> > testing its behaviour on the machine. Unfortunately, even with the
>> > latest live image, including non-free firmware, the test is not
>> > passed. The computer boots well and the graphical interface (I
>> > tried my usual xfce, but also mate) appears neat and working.
>> > However, after a few moments varying from few seconds to no more
>> > than a couple of minutes, the system freezes completely. Impossible
>> > to open a console, there is no answer at all, only physical
>> > shutdown is possible.
On 26.12.21 16:41, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
>The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
>The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
>by the legacy deb packages.
apparently this requires nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver and its dependencies.
>The computer has 8 Gb memory, a lot more than enough to load the image.
>The graphics are NVIDIA 4200M, with drivers provided, under Debian 10,
>by the legacy deb packages.
I have no idea if these are available on live CD.
>Of course, I could try upgrading directly from Debian 10 and rely on
>the backups if something goes wrong. As said, I did that for previous
>releases... but only after having successfully made a test with the live
>image.
>
>But you gave me one idea: I'll try the “standard” live image, without
>any graphics and try to build from that to see what happens.
--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
Silvester Stallone: Father of the RISC concept.
Andrew M.A. Cater
Dec 27, 2021, 2:30:03 AM12/27/21
to
Thanks to David Christensen over on debian-user mailing list:
Your E6520 is a hybrid laptop with two chipsets: one Intel graphics, one
Nvidia. On battery power, it will use the Intel, when plugged in to higher
resolution displays or whatever, it will use the Nvidia.
This is also similar to high end gaming laptops.
With the standard install, it's occasionally possible that conflict between
which display chipset to use / nouveau drivers may mean lock-ups.
There are three solutions possible, I think [I no longer have one of these
to deal with]
1. Ignore the Nvidia and use the Intel driver only. This will probably
work to some extent. It may be necessary to deny list the Nvidia drivers
2. Ignore the Intel and use the Nvidia drivers only - probably the non-free
drivers
3. Use the Optimus drivers which will allow the laptop to switch between
chipsets. This is provided by the bumblebee package in Debian - and there are
two types: one is a fully free driver and links in with nouveau, one relies
on the Nvidia proprietary drivers.
In my limited experience:
It is easiest to start with an expert text mode install and explicitly
uncheck/deselect the graphics drivers as you go: uncheck Debian graphical
environment and Gnome.
Install only the standard packages and minimal drivers - command line only.
Install build-essential and dkms packages and also choose which bumblebee
package to use and add it.
If you choose to use the proprietary drivers - build them at this point
with no major graphics drivers loaded. The proprietary drivers will taint
the kernel. dkms - if properly installed - should build the necessary
kernel drivers with each kernel change.
At that point, everything should work on the command line.
After that, reboot and as root/sudo equivalent, use the tasksel command
to install a desktop environment. This _should_ allow everything to work
correctly.
Hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,
Andy Cater
Your E6520 is a hybrid laptop with two chipsets: one Intel graphics, one
Nvidia. On battery power, it will use the Intel, when plugged in to higher
resolution displays or whatever, it will use the Nvidia.
This is also similar to high end gaming laptops.
With the standard install, it's occasionally possible that conflict between
which display chipset to use / nouveau drivers may mean lock-ups.
There are three solutions possible, I think [I no longer have one of these
to deal with]
1. Ignore the Nvidia and use the Intel driver only. This will probably
work to some extent. It may be necessary to deny list the Nvidia drivers
2. Ignore the Intel and use the Nvidia drivers only - probably the non-free
drivers
3. Use the Optimus drivers which will allow the laptop to switch between
chipsets. This is provided by the bumblebee package in Debian - and there are
two types: one is a fully free driver and links in with nouveau, one relies
on the Nvidia proprietary drivers.
In my limited experience:
It is easiest to start with an expert text mode install and explicitly
uncheck/deselect the graphics drivers as you go: uncheck Debian graphical
environment and Gnome.
Install only the standard packages and minimal drivers - command line only.
Install build-essential and dkms packages and also choose which bumblebee
package to use and add it.
If you choose to use the proprietary drivers - build them at this point
with no major graphics drivers loaded. The proprietary drivers will taint
the kernel. dkms - if properly installed - should build the necessary
kernel drivers with each kernel change.
At that point, everything should work on the command line.
After that, reboot and as root/sudo equivalent, use the tasksel command
to install a desktop environment. This _should_ allow everything to work
correctly.
Hope this helps. With every good wish, as ever,
Andy Cater
Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
Dec 27, 2021, 7:00:03 AM12/27/21
to
Wow! Thanks a lot to David and to you Andy!
Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
Intel card should be disabled.
Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
possible.
All the best,
mol
El Mon, 27 Dec 2021 07:28:02 +0000
Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
Intel card should be disabled.
Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
possible.
All the best,
mol
El Mon, 27 Dec 2021 07:28:02 +0000
Miguel Ortiz Lombardía
Dec 27, 2021, 7:10:03 AM12/27/21
to
Thank you Matus.
I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
of reach to me, I'm afraid.
Best,
mol
El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:09 +0100
Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uh...@fantomas.sk> escribió:
I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
of reach to me, I'm afraid.
Best,
mol
El Sun, 26 Dec 2021 17:41:09 +0100
Matus UHLAR - fantomas <uh...@fantomas.sk> escribió:
Andrew M.A. Cater
Dec 27, 2021, 7:20:03 AM12/27/21
to
On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 12:58:51PM +0100, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
> Wow! Thanks a lot to David and to you Andy!
>
> Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
> problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
> actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
> have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
> Intel card should be disabled.
>
> Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
> possible.
>
> All the best,
>
> mol
>
More than happy to help. I have had good results when using the bumblebee
> Wow! Thanks a lot to David and to you Andy!
>
> Yes, all that is right about the graphic cards. So far, I never had a
> problem with the installers (but never used the standard ones,
> actually) I will check whenever possible, but I sort of remember to
> have disable at some point the Optimus switch on the BIOS. If so, the
> Intel card should be disabled.
>
> Anyway, you give me some work to do :-) I'll try that as soon as
> possible.
>
> All the best,
>
> mol
>
packages in the past. When I didn't have them, then I got lockups and
mysterious problems. It took me about 3 days to work out how best to
do the sequencing I've laid out above. The _crucial_ thing is not to
use any graphical environment until after the drivers you want are compiled /
installed and available.
It was hard work to do once, then I forgot and had to do it all again
and document it - so now I remember it well :)
All the very best, as ever,
Andy Cater
>
>
Matus UHLAR - fantomas
Dec 27, 2021, 12:40:03 PM12/27/21
to
On 27.12.21 13:02, Miguel Ortiz Lombardía wrote:
>Thank you Matus.
>
>I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
>of reach to me, I'm afraid.
of course: more in-depth advices are usually better than advices how to
>Thank you Matus.
>
>I'll try first Andy recommendations: making a custom live image is out
>of reach to me, I'm afraid.
find/guess the problem.
just be safe and have backups.
good luck
--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
(R)etry, (A)bort, (C)ancer
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
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