Re: De-Branding of Icedove, reintroducing Thunderbird packages into Debian

[Contact Webmasteur]

Thunderbird in Debian Jessie and Debian Stretch ? When ?


Le 15/02/2017 à 19:18, Paul Sutton a écrit :
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> Hash: SHA256
>
> This sounds a good idea, and may reduce any confusion out there.
>
> Paul
>
> On 15/02/17 17:35, Christoph Goehre wrote:
>> Hi Debian Developers and followers,
>>
>> Thunderbird is back in Debian! We also renamed other related
>> packages to use official names, e.g. iceowl-extension ->
>> lightning.
>>
>> For now, we need testers to catch existing issues and things we
>> haven't seen until now.
>>
>> What happens the first time you start Thunderbird?
>>
>> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users
>> profile(s) will also be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to
>> '$HOME/.thunderbird' so we need to migrate the profile folder. This
>> is done by /usr/bin/thunderbird, a wrapper script, which does the
>> following things during initial startup:
>>
>> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder
>> ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter * Fixup Icedove related
>> entries to Thunderbird in ~/.thunderbird/$PROFILE/mimeTypes.rdf *
>> Fixup Icedove related entries to Thunderbird in
>> ~/.config/mimeapps.list * The postinst/postrm scripts will move
>> existing configuration files from /etc/icedove/pref to
>> /etc/thunderbird/pref.
>>
>> What needs to be tested? * Are the mime type associations still
>> correct? * Is the migration working in various Desktop
>> Environments? * Did we miss some files that need to be handled?
>>
>> What should I prepare for testing? Please keep a backup of your old
>> ~/.icedove folder! Also please backup the file
>> ~/.config/mimeapps.list (if your DE is using this) before
>> installing the thunderbird packages. You'll find additional notes
>> in '/usr/share/doc/thunderbird/README.Debian'.
>>
>> If you find some issue, please open a bug report. Patches of course
>> are welcome!
>>
>> We like to say thanks to all people that are involved and helped to
>> do the migration!
>>
>> Cheers, Carsten, Guido and Christoph
>>
> - --
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> Torbay Tech Jam http://torbaytechjam.org.uk
> Next Tech jam Saturday 11th March 2017
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[Paul Sutton]

[Adam Borowski]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:35:52PM -0500, Christoph Goehre wrote:
> Thunderbird is back in Debian! We also renamed other related packages to
> use official names, e.g. iceowl-extension -> lightning.

While I stick to Iceweasel, this isn't anywhere as visible for Icedove so
I'll grudgingly accept this one. :ş

> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users profile(s) will also
> be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird' so we need to migrate
> the profile folder. This is done by /usr/bin/thunderbird, a wrapper script,
> which does the following things during initial startup:
>
> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter

I see no deletion step. This is bad for a couple of reasons:
* my .icedove takes north of 2GB (mostly imap cache of multiple servers),
one of my users clocks above 7GB for a single server
* if you have some sensitive mail and delete it, you really don't want a
copy to stick forever. Especially if you then go through a border...


Meow!
--
Autotools hint: to do a zx-spectrum build on a pdp11 host, type:
./configure --host=zx-spectrum --build=pdp11

[Tek]

Hello, on a home folder that has travelled with me over the years,
~/.icedove is linked to ~/.thunderbird or vice versa (machine is at home
right now, and I can't check). Please make sure that any migration
script is non-destructive with such a setup, as I don't think that it is
uncommon at all!

Thanks!

Ryan

On 02/15/2017 06:35 PM, Christoph Goehre wrote:
> Hi Debian Developers and followers,
>

> Thunderbird is back in Debian! We also renamed other related packages to
> use official names, e.g. iceowl-extension -> lightning.
>

> For now, we need testers to catch existing issues and things we haven't seen
> until now.
>
> What happens the first time you start Thunderbird?
>

> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users profile(s) will also
> be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird' so we need to migrate
> the profile folder. This is done by /usr/bin/thunderbird, a wrapper script,
> which does the following things during initial startup:
>
> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter

[Daniel Baumann]

On 02/15/2017 06:35 PM, Christoph Goehre wrote:
> Thunderbird is back in Debian!

thanks, much appreciated.

> will also be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird'

why not migrate to ~/.mozilla/thunderbird (#363811) or
~/.config/thunderbird ?

Regards,
Daniel

[Nick Morrott]

On 15 February 2017 at 17:35, Christoph Goehre <ch...@sigxcpu.org> wrote:
> Hi Debian Developers and followers,
>
> Thunderbird is back in Debian! We also renamed other related packages to
> use official names, e.g. iceowl-extension -> lightning.
>
> For now, we need testers to catch existing issues and things we haven't seen
> until now.
>
> What happens the first time you start Thunderbird?
>

> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users profile(s) will also

> be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird'

Could it not migrate to $HOME/.mozilla/thunderbird, to be consistent
with firefox?

Cheers,
Nick

[Michael Biebl]

Am 16.02.2017 um 12:01 schrieb Nick Morrott:
> Could it not migrate to $HOME/.mozilla/thunderbird, to be consistent
> with firefox?

~/.thunderbird is the upstream default location for some reason and I
think it makes sense to not diverge from upstream in that regard.


--
Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the
universe are pointed away from Earth?

[Carsten Schoenert]

Hello,

Am 16.02.2017 um 17:49 schrieb Michael Biebl:
> Am 16.02.2017 um 12:01 schrieb Nick Morrott:
>> Could it not migrate to $HOME/.mozilla/thunderbird, to be consistent
>> with firefox?
>
> ~/.thunderbird is the upstream default location for some reason and I
> think it makes sense to not diverge from upstream in that regard.

exactly for that reason!
We simply have not the manpower to do such things that doesn't bring
really much effort.

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Carsten Schoenert]

Hello Adam,

Am 15.02.2017 um 22:12 schrieb Adam Borowski:
>> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter
>
> I see no deletion step. This is bad for a couple of reasons:
> * my .icedove takes north of 2GB (mostly imap cache of multiple servers),
> one of my users clocks above 7GB for a single server
> * if you have some sensitive mail and delete it, you really don't want a
> copy to stick forever. Especially if you then go through a border...

there is a reason why we decided to not delete anything here that is
related to the users scope. We don't want delete user files and
configuration as the impact of a deleted folder or files is much bigger
as not used backup of a folder. So we have to go into one direction in
the end.
And I don't see a needed discussion about that small issue as mostly
every singe MP3 file is bigger than the common users profile folder for
Mozilla Thunderbird.

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Michael Biebl]

Am 16.02.2017 um 19:15 schrieb Carsten Schoenert:
> And I don't see a needed discussion about that small issue as mostly
> every singe MP3 file is bigger than the common users profile folder for
> Mozilla Thunderbird.

My thunderbird profile is 3.6G. But I get your point about deleting
users data being a hairy business.

You already have a NEWS entry for the de-branding which talks about the
user profile. Maybe add an additional section there, that the old
profile is kept as ~/.icedove and that the user can delete that manually
if the upgrade has been completed successfully.

[Carsten Schoenert]

Am 15.02.2017 um 19:49 schrieb Contact Webmasteur:
> Thunderbird in Debian Jessie and Debian Stretch ? When ?

There is simple answer for this, it's done if it's done.

This will mean, Stretch is on the way and for now it looks good I think.
For Jessie we need to start the packaging work, but also modify the
existing wrapper script as we don't have planned to switch the
Thunderbird profiles folder to the upstream default.

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Carsten Schoenert]

Am 16.02.2017 um 19:26 schrieb Michael Biebl:
> You already have a NEWS entry for the de-branding which talks about the
> user profile. Maybe add an additional section there, that the old
> profile is kept as ~/.icedove and that the user can delete that manually
> if the upgrade has been completed successfully.

Yes, that's a good point. We will add something like this in one of the
future uploads.

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Adam Borowski]

I have yet to see a multi-gigabyte single MP3 file. If you insist on this
extra backup, you could at least delete the IMAP cache -- for an IMAP-only
user this might indeed reduce the profile to something small. For POP and
locally saved mails, though, this still wouldn't help.

Leaving an unknown to the user copy of mails is a major security hole, as
this is precisely the kind of data criminals[1] at the border are looking
for. Following good general practice and having the disk encrypted is of no
help as they force you to enter your password, often with multi-year jail
time (UK) if you fail to comply. Thus, data the user believes to be purged
must be actually purged, no hidden backups "just in case".

What about this: in your startup wrapper, check if
~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter is present. If it is, display a
nagging popup asking the user to verify if their mails are still present,
and if so, delete the directory. This would fix both gigabytes of junk and
the privacy hole.

Or perhaps, just rename the directory silently. That would bring no less
safety than previous upgrades that reused the directory name.

Or possibly make a symlink instead.


Meow!

[1]. In countries with no equivalent of US 4th Amendment the spooks don't
even have to break any laws, but that doesn't make your situation any
better.

[Michael Biebl]

Am 16.02.2017 um 20:14 schrieb Adam Borowski:
> What about this: in your startup wrapper, check if
> ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter is present. If it is, display a
> nagging popup asking the user to verify if their mails are still present,
> and if so, delete the directory. This would fix both gigabytes of junk and
> the privacy hole.

I guess it would be pretty easy to cobble together something like that
using "dialog". The only issue I see would be translations.

[Vincent Danjean]

Hi,

Le 15/02/2017 à 18:35, Christoph Goehre a écrit :
> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users profile(s) will also

> be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird' so we need to migrate
> the profile folder. This is done by /usr/bin/thunderbird, a wrapper script,
> which does the following things during initial startup:
>

> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter

It is a copy ? (and I suspect there is also a move to $HOME/.thunderbird)
If there is a copy (and not only a move), how do you handle (missing) disk
space?
I saw lots of icedove installation with several tens of GiB of cached IMAP
mails. There won't necessarily be enough place to do a copy of such profiles
so the migration must handle correctly this possibility (if all the profile
is copied)

Regards,
Vincent

--
Vincent Danjean GPG key ID 0xD17897FA vdan...@debian.org
GPG key fingerprint: 621E 3509 654D D77C 43F5 CA4A F6AE F2AF D178 97FA
Unofficial pkgs: http://moais.imag.fr/membres/vincent.danjean/deb.html
APT repo: deb http://people.debian.org/~vdanjean/debian unstable main

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

On 16/02/17 20:14, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Following good general practice and having the disk encrypted is of no
> help as they force you to enter your password, often with multi-year jail
> time (UK) if you fail to comply.

Link?

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 16/02/17 06:35, Christoph Goehre wrote:
> For now, we need testers to catch existing issues and things we haven't seen
> until now.

Great job. Everything seems to have gone smoothly. I am using XFCE on sid.

I found a few residual post-migration mentions of icedove that I
eradicated manually (found with "grep -lr icedove"):

- absolute paths to IMAP folders in prefs.js were not fixed and still
referred to $HOME/.icedove: fix was a search and replace; not sure if
necessary as thunderbird still worked
- mention of icedove in a gcontactsync addressbook: fix was to delete
and rebuild in gcontactsync
- mention of icedove in panacea.dat and training.dat: removed (spam
training etc), thunderbird has rebuilt them
- mention of icedove in search.sqlite and extensions.json: removed

I think that was all I found. Everything seems to work, and the removed
files have been rebuilt.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <b...@transient.nz>
Director
Transient Software Limited <http://transient.nz/>
New Zealand

[Philip Hands]

I think he's talking about RIPA, in which case:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/section/53#commentary-c19929351

Section 5A: up to 5 years for national security cases (which is pretty much
anything these days it seems) or 2 years max otherwise.

The "tipping-off" stuff is lovely too:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/section/54

I guess one might end up needing a lawyer to know if revoking one's
compromised keys is something that will also get you a 5 year sabbatical.

Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY

[Adam Borowski]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom

Two years for refusing to divulge your password or secret keys of any kind,
even if you don't actually have that key. Five years if anyone imagines
that "child indecency" is involved, again without any proof required. No
need for a court warrant, even.

And that's UK, a country that claims to be civilized. Now try this in Saudi
Arabia...

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 07:15:38PM +0100, Carsten Schoenert wrote:

> there is a reason why we decided to not delete anything here that is
> related to the users scope. We don't want delete user files and
> configuration as the impact of a deleted folder or files is much bigger
> as not used backup of a folder. So we have to go into one direction in
> the end.

I agree with this reasoning, but I think (if I understand things correctly)
I am still concerned about the idea of this migration stuff being run every
time automatically when you invoke thunderbird (by having it added into the
/usr/bin/thunderbird wrapper directly).

Could the migration stuff be in a separate script, that a user must manually
invoke?

I've seen Firefox occasionally say it needed to perform a migration to cope
with changes in something-or-other when it has updated. Is any chunk of that
logic available to hook into with Thunderbird?

I suppose you could have some prompting logic in the wrapper that would warn
about the presence of the old location and point the user at a separate
migration tool, which could inform the user that they now have two copies of
their profile, pre- and post migration, and to perform cleanup if they are
happy.

We're in freeze now too, and it feels a little worrying to be working on
something this tricky at such a time. As pointed out to me on IRC, though,
it's probably better than post-release, at least.


--
Jonathan Dowland
Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:35:52PM -0500, Christoph Goehre wrote:
> Hi Debian Developers and followers,
>
> Thunderbird is back in Debian! We also renamed other related packages to
> use official names, e.g. iceowl-extension -> lightning.
>

> For now, we need testers to catch existing issues and things we haven't seen
> until now.
>

> What happens the first time you start Thunderbird?
>

> With the change to the official Mozilla branding the users profile(s) will also
> be changing from '$HOME/.icedove' to '$HOME/.thunderbird' so we need to migrate
> the profile folder. This is done by /usr/bin/thunderbird, a wrapper script,
> which does the following things during initial startup:
>
> * Copy the contents of the old profile folder into the new folder ~/.icedove_moved_by_thunderbird_starter

> * Fixup Icedove related entries to Thunderbird in ~/.thunderbird/$PROFILE/mimeTypes.rdf
> * Fixup Icedove related entries to Thunderbird in ~/.config/mimeapps.list
> * The postinst/postrm scripts will move existing configuration files from /etc/icedove/pref to /etc/thunderbird/pref.

Why not just create a ~/.thunderbird symlink to ~/.icedove if ~/.icedove
exists?

Mike

[Thibaut Paumard]

Actually I think a pop-up on a per-user basis would be in order.

Regards, Thibaut.

[Josh Triplett]

Mike Hommey wrote:
> Why not just create a ~/.thunderbird symlink to ~/.icedove if
> ~/.icedove exists?

This seems like the right solution. (Or, equivalently, rename
~/.icedove to ~/.thunderbird and place a symlink in the other
direction.)

Any particular reason not to do this?

- Josh Triplett

[Carsten Schoenert]

Hello,

given to the feedback on the list and BTS we will change the current
behavior to "just" symlink to ~/.icedove.

While starting the process of the package migration we (mostly me) was
worry about we have to do much more changes inside a users profile and
it would be good to have a full backup. But now it turns out it isn't
that much.

I'd like to thank all the people who gave us suggestions and helpful
feedback in the past days and weeks! We can make Thunderbird great again
in Debian. :-)

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Lionel Elie Mamane]

On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 08:37:14AM +0100, Carsten Schoenert wrote:
> Am 19.02.2017 um 07:12 schrieb Josh Triplett:
>> Mike Hommey wrote:
>>> Why not just create a ~/.thunderbird symlink to ~/.icedove if
>>> ~/.icedove exists?

>> This seems like the right solution. (Or, equivalently, rename
>> ~/.icedove to ~/.thunderbird and place a symlink in the other
>> direction.)

>> Any particular reason not to do this?

> given to the feedback on the list and BTS we will change the current
> behavior to "just" symlink to ~/.icedove.

If home directories are shared between machines, one machine has
icedove and the other thunderbird, will they collaborate decently on
the same profile directory?

--
Lionel

[Carsten Schoenert]

Hello Lionel,

Am 21.02.2017 um 11:38 schrieb Lionel Elie Mamane:
> If home directories are shared between machines, one machine has
> icedove and the other thunderbird, will they collaborate decently on
> the same profile directory?

this should work as the "real" old Icedove packages uses ~/.icedove and
Thunderbird now uses ~/.thunderbird as default.
But that you probably wont do. You probably want to use Icedove on one
machine and Thunderbird on another machine and you want to use the
profile folder for booth, that will also work if you use versions that
not differ that much. The best would be to only Thunderbird or only
Icedove with the same version.

Combining usage of booth profile folders with symlinking is the thing we
currently talk about to not copy .icedove into .thunderbird.

--
Regards
Carsten Schoenert

[Joe Dalton]

Hi Carsten, I have a small request.
When making the package descriptions (that is adding the phrase: This is a transitional package. It can be safely removed), it would be nice for us translators that a . is made between the text and the phrase. That phrase is already translated in most of the active languages. and adding it in a separate sections, means no work for us translators, as opposite to now there we have to run through x number of strings, copy the old text and adding This is a transitional package. It can be safely removed (translated) in all the sections, go through proofreading/control etc.

It's a small thing then making the package descriptions, but saves us a lot of work.

thanks in advance.
Joe
(Danish)


Icedove is an unbranded Thunderbird mail client suitable for free distribution.
The goal of Thunderbird is to produce a cross platform stand-alone mail
application using the XUL user interface language.
.
This package contains the localization of Icedove in Arabic.
This is a transitional package. It can be safely removed.

Icedove er en version af postklienten Thunderbird, der ikke markedsføres
og som er egnet til fri distribution. Målet med Thunderbird er at
fremstille et uafhængigt postprogram, som fungerer på tværs af platforme
med brug af sproget for XUL-brugerfladen.
.

--------------------------------------------
Den tirs 21/2/17 skrev Carsten Schoenert <c.sch...@t-online.de>:

Emne: Re: De-Branding of Icedove, reintroducing Thunderbird packages into Debian
Til: "Lionel Elie Mamane" <lio...@mamane.lu>, debian...@lists.debian.org
Dato: tirsdag 21. februar 2017 21.13

[Emilio Pozuelo Monfort]

On 19/02/17 08:37, Carsten Schoenert wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Am 19.02.2017 um 07:12 schrieb Josh Triplett:
>> Mike Hommey wrote:
>>> Why not just create a ~/.thunderbird symlink to ~/.icedove if
>>> ~/.icedove exists?
>>
>> This seems like the right solution. (Or, equivalently, rename
>> ~/.icedove to ~/.thunderbird and place a symlink in the other
>> direction.)
>>
>> Any particular reason not to do this?
>
> given to the feedback on the list and BTS we will change the current
> behavior to "just" symlink to ~/.icedove.

Maybe you should rename the folder and make ~/.icedove a symlink instead.</bikeshed>

Cheers,
Emilio

[Thibaut Paumard]

Le 19/02/2017 à 08:37, Carsten Schoenert a écrit :
> Hello,
>
> Am 19.02.2017 um 07:12 schrieb Josh Triplett:
>> Mike Hommey wrote:
>>> Why not just create a ~/.thunderbird symlink to ~/.icedove if
>>> ~/.icedove exists?
>>
>> This seems like the right solution. (Or, equivalently, rename
>> ~/.icedove to ~/.thunderbird and place a symlink in the other
>> direction.)
>>
>> Any particular reason not to do this?
>
> given to the feedback on the list and BTS we will change the current
> behavior to "just" symlink to ~/.icedove.

Hi,

What's your fall-back if .thunderbird already exist and is not a symlink
to .icedove?

Regards, Thibaut.

[A. D. Vinke]

Is that why the latest version of THUNDERBIRD is terrible?

Even Microsoft OUTLOOK is faster than THUNDERBIRD now.

A Vinke

[Ana Carrillo]

I work for a window company 

On May 12, 2017 2:47 PM, "Eco-Windows" <zl...@zleap.net> wrote:

pnzks

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<div>
</div>
On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:36:27PM +0200, Johan Hovold wrote:
> Hi Guenter and Wim,
>
> On Mon, Apr 03, 2017 at 07:05:46AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > On 04/03/2017 01:36 AM, Johan Hovold wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 10:16:33AM -0700, Guenter Roeck wrote:
> > >> On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 01:49:45PM +0100, Johan Hovold wrote:
> > >>> Make sure to check the number of endpoints to avoid dereferencing a
> > >>> NULL-pointer should a malicious device lack endpoints.
> > >>>
> > >>> Fixes: 1da177e4c3f4 ("Linux-2.6.12-rc2")
> > >>> Cc: stable <sta...@vger.kernel.org>
> > >>> Signed-off-by: Johan Hovold <jo...@kernel.org>
> > >>
> > >> Reviewed-by: Guenter Roeck <li...@roeck-us.net>
> > >
> > > Any progress on this one? I noticed you merged it to both the fixes and
> > > next branches in your staging tree, Guenter (but it does not show up in
> > > linux-next). Will you be sending it on to Linus?
>
> > my watchdog staging trees are inofficial and not in linux-next.
> > Wim is working on setting up a new server which will provide the
> > official staging tree.
> >
> > I asked Wim to push the pending patches. I'll do it if he asks me.
>
> I noticed Guenter's watchdog branch is now in next, but the patches for
> 4.12 are still not in mainline. Have you guys decided who will be
> sending them on to Linus this cycle?
>
Good question. I had expected Wim to do it, since it is actually his
repository which is in linux-next. But you are correct, it isn't upstream.

Wim ?

Thanks,
Guenter

[Derek Kirksey]

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