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Packaging MATE for Debian
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John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Nov 21, 2012, 5:30:02 AM11/21/12
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Hi,
after following up with the discussion on MATE on this list, I think
we have a consens that there are many people who'd be in favor to
getting MATE into Debian.
As Debian Wheezy is already in the freeze, MATE won't undeniably be a
part of it. Even if we still weren't in the freeze, I still don't
think MATE is yet quite ready to be uploaded to Debian. The MATE
developers are currently working on porting MATE to newer libraries so
they won't reintroduce old, unsupported stuff back into the
distributions (like Bonobo, for example).
Anyway, I have had contact with the MATE development team over the
last weeks and I already have write access to their Debian packaging
repository.
I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
Cheers,
Adrian
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after following up with the discussion on MATE on this list, I think
we have a consens that there are many people who'd be in favor to
getting MATE into Debian.
As Debian Wheezy is already in the freeze, MATE won't undeniably be a
part of it. Even if we still weren't in the freeze, I still don't
think MATE is yet quite ready to be uploaded to Debian. The MATE
developers are currently working on porting MATE to newer libraries so
they won't reintroduce old, unsupported stuff back into the
distributions (like Bonobo, for example).
Anyway, I have had contact with the MATE development team over the
last weeks and I already have write access to their Debian packaging
repository.
I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
Cheers,
Adrian
--
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`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glau...@physik.fu-berlin.de
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Jon Dowland
Nov 21, 2012, 7:10:02 AM11/21/12
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On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
As you know, there is already an effort to package MATE ongoing (at least
> I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
#658783). The purpose of ITPs is to prevent people from duplicating each
others work. If you want to encourage others to join the effort, it might
be worth setting up a Debian packaging team (an Alioth project?), with a
corresponding mailing list, and documenting the team and the team's processes
on the Debian Wiki. That would make the fact there is a team that could be
joined more visible, and the rules of engagement clear. Since it might be
a while before MATE packages are acceptable to be uploaded to Debian proper,
a separate package repository with the latest WIP packages is a good idea,
lowering the amount of effort for someone to try it out and get involved.
Also as you aren't the filer or owner of that ITP please make sure anything
you do is agreeable to the actual ITP owner.
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Stefano Karapetsas
Nov 21, 2012, 7:40:01 PM11/21/12
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> Also as you aren't the filer or owner of that ITP please make sure anything
> you do is agreeable to the actual ITP owner.
I'm the current ITP owner, and an upstream MATE developer too. I alread talked with Adrian some weeks ago and I would be happy to move MATE packaging on an appropriate team.
> you do is agreeable to the actual ITP owner.
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John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Dec 2, 2012, 7:30:02 AM12/2/12
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Hey,
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
Cheers,
Adrian
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On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
I'd like to ping back and see if there's anyone here who'd be
> to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
Cheers,
Adrian
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`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glau...@physik.fu-berlin.de
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Jon Dowland
Dec 2, 2012, 5:30:01 PM12/2/12
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On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:26:50PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> Hey,
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
>
> I'd like to ping back and see if there's anyone here who'd be
> interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
If there was a git repo to check out I'd be happy to test packages and do
> Hey,
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
>
> I'd like to ping back and see if there's anyone here who'd be
> interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
some mild work, but not as a main commitment.
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John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Dec 2, 2012, 6:10:02 PM12/2/12
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On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 10:21:43PM +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:26:50PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
> >
> > I'd like to ping back and see if there's anyone here who'd be
> > interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
>
> If there was a git repo to check out I'd be happy to test packages and do
> some mild work, but not as a main commitment.
There is: https://github.com/mate-desktop/debian-packages
> On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:26:50PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
> >
> > I'd like to ping back and see if there's anyone here who'd be
> > interested in joining me to package MATE for Debian.
>
> If there was a git repo to check out I'd be happy to test packages and do
> some mild work, but not as a main commitment.
Cheers,
Adrian
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Adam Borowski
Dec 2, 2012, 8:10:02 PM12/2/12
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On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 10:21:43PM +0000, Jon Dowland wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:26:50PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
>
> > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:22:52AM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > > I'd therefore like to ask if anyone here would be willing to help me
> > > to get MATE into Debian for Jessie.
>
> If there was a git repo to check out I'd be happy to test packages and do
> some mild work, but not as a main commitment.
You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
> some mild work, but not as a main commitment.
deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
I'm testing this at work for several months already (since the freeze;
unlike home, I have no time for unnecessary transitions). And I'm very
positively surprised: usually when you have unofficial apt sources, the
quality is typically low -- or worse. Problems I noticed so far are:
* no migration of Gnome2 settings
* wheezy's remmina interacts really badly with screen locking (both
mate-screensaver and gnome[3]-screensaver): the screen will fail to lock,
yet the moment you switch out of remmina, there is a fade out and lock
that can't be aborted
* by default you have two evinces, which tends to confuse people who don't
know what's going on. ("evince" and "atril" are both pulled in, and use
the same user-visible names).
And that's basically it. I did not notice other regressions: remaining
badness was already there in squeeze's Gnome2, and some annoying bugs have
been fixed by MATE guys since then.
So from an _user_'s point of view, John Paul could just upload everything
as-is and it'd be in a better shape than Gnome3 or XFCE already. I don't
know about packaging internals here so I can't offer this kind of help,
though.
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Josselin Mouette
Dec 3, 2012, 1:50:01 PM12/3/12
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Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 02:06 +0100, Adam Borowski a écrit :
> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
I see this still includes all s/gnome/mate/ libraries from GNOME 2,
> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
while their counterparts are still here in Debian at a GNOME 2.x
version.
I sincerely hope the FTP masters will reject this kind of stuff.
Feel free to take over maintenance of anything in pkg-gnome/attic
instead; it would be much more useful to share the maintenance effort
with other applications using those legacy libraries.
> * wheezy's remmina interacts really badly with screen locking (both
> mate-screensaver and gnome[3]-screensaver): the screen will fail to lock,
> yet the moment you switch out of remmina, there is a fade out and lock
> that can't be aborted
session manager doesn’t know whether there are events inside or not.
It’s already the case in squeeze for applications that do locking, but
remmina might not be one of them.
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Stefano Karapetsas
Dec 3, 2012, 2:30:02 PM12/3/12
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Il 03/12/2012 19:46, Josselin Mouette ha scritto:
> Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 02:06 +0100, Adam Borowski a écrit :
>> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
>> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
>
> I see this still includes all s/gnome/mate/ libraries from GNOME 2,
> while their counterparts are still here in Debian at a GNOME 2.x
> version.
That repository contains the current stable MATE. The repository with
> Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 02:06 +0100, Adam Borowski a écrit :
>> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
>> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
>
> I see this still includes all s/gnome/mate/ libraries from GNOME 2,
> while their counterparts are still here in Debian at a GNOME 2.x
> version.
develpment MATE packages, without "obsolete" libraries, is
deb http://dev.mate-desktop.org/debian wheezy main
Our github repo with debian folders, in master branch, is without
removed packages too.
> I sincerely hope the FTP masters will reject this kind of stuff.
> Feel free to take over maintenance of anything in pkg-gnome/attic
> instead; it would be much more useful to share the maintenance effort
> with other applications using those legacy libraries.
and "duplicated" libraries.
And, maybe you dont know, but we are already working with GNOME
developers to share efforts with them. Just some examples: with yelp
developer, to use yelp as documentation viewer and yelp tools to build
documentation; with evince developers to share libriaries and have only
separated UI. And we are working with GNOME to keep alive software no
longer maintained too [1].
[1]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg00201.html
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Jeremy Bicha
Dec 3, 2012, 3:50:03 PM12/3/12
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On 3 December 2012 14:28, Stefano Karapetsas <ste...@karapetsas.com> wrote:
> As I already said you many times, MATE no longer uses these "obsolete" and
> "duplicated" libraries.
>
> And, maybe you dont know, but we are already working with GNOME developers
> to share efforts with them. Just some examples: with yelp developer, to use
> yelp as documentation viewer and yelp tools to build documentation; with
> evince developers to share libriaries and have only separated UI. And we are
> working with GNOME to keep alive software no longer maintained too [1].
What's so bad about evince that you need to use a forked version
> As I already said you many times, MATE no longer uses these "obsolete" and
> "duplicated" libraries.
>
> And, maybe you dont know, but we are already working with GNOME developers
> to share efforts with them. Just some examples: with yelp developer, to use
> yelp as documentation viewer and yelp tools to build documentation; with
> evince developers to share libriaries and have only separated UI. And we are
> working with GNOME to keep alive software no longer maintained too [1].
anyway? Or gnome-icon-theme, gnome-keyring, gnome-terminal, etc.
Jeremy
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Jon Dowland
Dec 3, 2012, 4:40:01 PM12/3/12
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On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 02:06:03AM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote:
> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
Thanks but I'm interested in possibly helping an effort to package MATE
> You can use the upstream packaging, available at:
> deb http://packages.mate-desktop.org/repo/debian wheezy main
in Debian, rather than run it myself.
> So from an _user_'s point of view, John Paul could just upload everything
> as-is and it'd be in a better shape than Gnome3 or XFCE already. I don't
> know about packaging internals here so I can't offer this kind of help,
> though.
help with.
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Jon Dowland
Dec 3, 2012, 4:40:02 PM12/3/12
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On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 03:39:03PM -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> What's so bad about evince that you need to use a forked version
> anyway? Or gnome-icon-theme, gnome-keyring, gnome-terminal, etc.
This is drifting off the topic at hand, please, take it to another
> What's so bad about evince that you need to use a forked version
> anyway? Or gnome-icon-theme, gnome-keyring, gnome-terminal, etc.
list if you want to continue down this line.
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Joachim Wiedorn
Dec 3, 2012, 4:50:02 PM12/3/12
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Jeremy Bicha wrote on 2012-12-03 15:39:
> What's so bad about evince that you need to use a forked version
> anyway? Or gnome-icon-theme, gnome-keyring, gnome-terminal, etc.
And in the same way: why mdm instead of gdm ?
> What's so bad about evince that you need to use a forked version
> anyway? Or gnome-icon-theme, gnome-keyring, gnome-terminal, etc.
I have created some updates of gdm with the same patches as mdm, but
without renaming all files and strings to mdm. In this way the needed
patches are smaller and works stable, too.
By the way: linuxmint ignore the "quilt 3.0" technique of patching,
instead it seems all packages were made as native packages ...
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Have a nice day.
Joachim (Germany)
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Stefano Karapetsas
Dec 3, 2012, 5:00:02 PM12/3/12
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Il 03/12/2012 22:33, Joachim Wiedorn ha scritto:
> And in the same way: why mdm instead of gdm ?
MDM is not part of MATE Desktop.
> And in the same way: why mdm instead of gdm ?
Cheers,
Stefano
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Josselin Mouette
Dec 3, 2012, 6:10:02 PM12/3/12
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Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 20:28 +0100, Stefano Karapetsas a écrit :
> That repository contains the current stable MATE. The repository with
> develpment MATE packages, without "obsolete" libraries, is
> deb http://dev.mate-desktop.org/debian wheezy main
> Our github repo with debian folders, in master branch, is without
> removed packages too.
This still includes seemingly useless forks of:
> That repository contains the current stable MATE. The repository with
> develpment MATE packages, without "obsolete" libraries, is
> deb http://dev.mate-desktop.org/debian wheezy main
> Our github repo with debian folders, in master branch, is without
> removed packages too.
- libwnck, still in Debian
- libgnome-keyring (no GTK3 dependency)
- libnotify: only trivial API changes between the forked version and
the current one
- libgnome-desktop (still in Debian)
- metacity (here to stay)
- libgnome-menus (you could split only the menu editor and the
structure)
- gnome-doc-utils (here to stay)
Also having an old fork of libgweather without sharing the data is
completely absurd.
On a related but less important matter: unless they have been pushed
upstream, you might also want to add the patches that we had in Debian’s
GNOME 2 that fix long-standing bugs – I’d quote the file manager’s fixed
width columns, which I find almost unusable without the patch, if I had
to choose one.
Cheers,
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Stefano Karapetsas
Dec 3, 2012, 6:40:03 PM12/3/12
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Hi Joss,
thank you for your feedback.
Il 04/12/2012 00:05, Josselin Mouette ha scritto:
> This still includes seemingly useless forks of:
> - libwnck, still in Debian
We forked libwnck for three main reasons: to have stable API, to keep
GTK2 support, and to add new features on it (we already started to do this).
> - libgnome-keyring (no GTK3 dependency)
There is already a plan to drop it and use the new libsecret instead.
> - libnotify: only trivial API changes between the forked version and
> the current one
This is a nice suggestion, we should drop libmatenotify and use upstream
version instead.
> - libgnome-desktop (still in Debian)
We improved libmate-desktop as our main library, for example we added
our shared gsettings schemas there, and added some functions specific
for MATE. We cant drop it.
> - metacity (here to stay)
Marco (metacity fork) is our specific window manager, and we added a lot
of improvements and customizations there too.
> - gnome-doc-utils (here to stay)
We are working on replace it with yelp tools.
We are discussing on reasons to keep or drop other libs too (as gweather
and mate-menus)
> On a related but less important matter: unless they have been pushed
> upstream, you might also want to add the patches that we had in Debian’s
> GNOME 2 that fix long-standing bugs – I’d quote the file manager’s fixed
> width columns, which I find almost unusable without the patch, if I had
> to choose one.
Thank you Joss. We already added a lot of your patches (example [1]) in
our upstream, and we'll continue to do this :)
Cheers,
Stefano
[1] https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-file-manager/commit/4a58c31e2
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thank you for your feedback.
Il 04/12/2012 00:05, Josselin Mouette ha scritto:
> This still includes seemingly useless forks of:
> - libwnck, still in Debian
GTK2 support, and to add new features on it (we already started to do this).
> - libgnome-keyring (no GTK3 dependency)
> - libnotify: only trivial API changes between the forked version and
> the current one
version instead.
> - libgnome-desktop (still in Debian)
our shared gsettings schemas there, and added some functions specific
for MATE. We cant drop it.
> - metacity (here to stay)
of improvements and customizations there too.
> - gnome-doc-utils (here to stay)
We are discussing on reasons to keep or drop other libs too (as gweather
and mate-menus)
> On a related but less important matter: unless they have been pushed
> upstream, you might also want to add the patches that we had in Debian’s
> GNOME 2 that fix long-standing bugs – I’d quote the file manager’s fixed
> width columns, which I find almost unusable without the patch, if I had
> to choose one.
our upstream, and we'll continue to do this :)
Cheers,
Stefano
[1] https://github.com/mate-desktop/mate-file-manager/commit/4a58c31e2
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Josselin Mouette
Dec 3, 2012, 7:10:02 PM12/3/12
to
Le mardi 04 décembre 2012 à 00:37 +0100, Stefano Karapetsas a écrit :
> > - libwnck, still in Debian
> We forked libwnck for three main reasons: to have stable API, to keep
> GTK2 support, and to add new features on it (we already started to do this).
The GTK2 libwnck version will not change API, so you could branch it and
> > - libwnck, still in Debian
> We forked libwnck for three main reasons: to have stable API, to keep
> GTK2 support, and to add new features on it (we already started to do this).
add new features directly. I don’t mind giving away Debian maintenance
(quite the contrary) if you keep compatibility.
> > - libgnome-keyring (no GTK3 dependency)
> There is already a plan to drop it and use the new libsecret instead.
> > - libnotify: only trivial API changes between the forked version and
> > the current one
> This is a nice suggestion, we should drop libmatenotify and use upstream
> version instead.
> > - libgnome-desktop (still in Debian)
> We improved libmate-desktop as our main library, for example we added
> our shared gsettings schemas there, and added some functions specific
> for MATE. We cant drop it.
> > - metacity (here to stay)
> Marco (metacity fork) is our specific window manager, and we added a lot
> of improvements and customizations there too.
on keeping compatibility (especially with themes and WM behavior), and
can agree with a port to GTK3 (which will be needed one day or another
for GNOME Classic), we could work on the same tree.
Cheers,
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