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Preinstalled package manager(s) for PCs (wheezy)
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Filipus Klutiero
Mar 27, 2012, 12:10:02 PM3/27/12
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Hi,
3 days ago I installed wheezy on my laptop. The day after I realized that no graphical APT front-end was installed. Usually, I just install Synaptic as a habit, but this time I was surprised I had to do that as I was specifically testing the completeness of our KDE meta-packages and had installed kde-standard ("KDE Plasma Desktop and standard set of applications"). I discovered that even if one installs kde-full, no graphical package manager is installed. This is kind of a problem for wheezy...
Synaptic is no longer in the desktop task since tasksel 2.43: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/tasksel/current/changelog#version2.43
Replacing Synaptic with kpackage was certainly not a great move in 2006, but the situation got worst with tasksel 2.79: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/tasksel/current/changelog#version2.79
and kdeadmin 4:4.4.2-1: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/kdeadmin/current/changelog#version4:4.4.2-1
Now, KDE merely recommends update-notifier-kde (via kde-standard).
When I realized this, I thought Synaptic should be added to the desktop task. But the situation outside KDE is not what I thought.
In squeeze, gnome depended on synaptic. But GNOME metapackages no longer depend on Synaptic following http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome?view=revision&revision=29732
It is not clear how intentional that is, but since then GNOME seems to only bring in gnome-packagekit.
As for LXDE and Xfce, it seems they do not bring in any front-end. I imagine these should bring in Synaptic.
If the above is right, I think desktop tasks should install Synaptic, but I am not sure about GNOME. In fact, I haven't been following the new front-ends drafted since I started using Debian (2004). GNOME PackageKit seems to claim a certain maturity, so I tried it. My very first impression is that although it's neat/shiny and apparently not too buggy, it's far from matching Synaptic in completeness. I hardly picture myself only using GNOME PackageKit, and I doubt it's a good idea to replace Synaptic with GNOME PackageKit.
Before going further, I apologize if I missed a previous discussion of the topic, I'm hardly keeping up these days. The only somewhat related discussion I found is "A Debian sprint for package management GUIs?", in November: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2011/11/msg00007.html
Unfortunately that discussion seems to be halted.
I have been using Synaptic for nearly 8 years and I watched it being maintained, but evolving very slowly. We simply have very little manpower working on APT front-ends, beyond the occasional attempts to write something new halted mid-way and a few projects that did produce interesting alternatives for specific use cases (such as upgrading). I would be very happy if some cross-distribution project could bring us a successor to Synaptic for free.
But I don't know if PackageKit (and front-ends) is ever going to match Synaptic's flexibility. And more importantly, I'm not sure that will be the case in time for wheezy. I would be inclined to "encourage" an alternative if we agreed it should be the long-term replacement, but not at any cost, and from what I saw, shipping GNOME PackageKit instead of Synaptic would have an important cost in the short term.
GNOME PackageKit entered testing in April 2011. Making it replace Synaptic would be replacing Synaptic with software that didn't go in stable yet.
"gnome-packagekit is not ready to be in the default install" according to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649014
That was however filed in November, and the only argument spelled out was a bug now fixed. I do not consider a lack of features as a reason to exclude software from the default install (unless the lack of a "feature" constitutes a bug), however it *is* a reason not to make that software *replace* another piece of software which is more complete.
In fact, if GNOME PackageKit is mature enough but still overall inferior to Synaptic, nothing prevents us from shipping both. Synaptic is lightweight. There is much redundancy between Synaptic and GNOME PackageKit, so this will bloat the interface, but I don't think shipping both would be worst than shipping only GNOME PackageKit overall. I saw a couple of things GNOME PackageKit has that Synaptic doesn't.
So what do others think? The current situation in KDE, LXDE and Xfce appears to be unintentional, but for GNOME, I'm wondering how intentional the situation is, and how desirable it is. Depending on the perceptions of GNOME PackageKit and Synaptic, I may ask that Synaptic be added to task-desktop, or that Synaptic be added to only KDE and maybe to LXDE and Xfce. Unless you have radically different ideas.
I'd like to emphasize that even though the future of APT front-ends might have an influence of which choice is best now, I wish that the future (post-wheezy) remains a marginal part of our choice, and that this discussion focuses more on determining what is better now (at least for wheezy) than on establishing an ideal future or speculating on what front-end will eventually be best.
3 days ago I installed wheezy on my laptop. The day after I realized that no graphical APT front-end was installed. Usually, I just install Synaptic as a habit, but this time I was surprised I had to do that as I was specifically testing the completeness of our KDE meta-packages and had installed kde-standard ("KDE Plasma Desktop and standard set of applications"). I discovered that even if one installs kde-full, no graphical package manager is installed. This is kind of a problem for wheezy...
Synaptic is no longer in the desktop task since tasksel 2.43: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/tasksel/current/changelog#version2.43
* Add kpackage to kde-desktop. * Move synaptic to gnome-desktop.
Replacing Synaptic with kpackage was certainly not a great move in 2006, but the situation got worst with tasksel 2.79: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/t/tasksel/current/changelog#version2.79
* Remove kpackage from kde-desktop. kdeadmin depends on it.
and kdeadmin 4:4.4.2-1: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/kdeadmin/current/changelog#version4:4.4.2-1
* KPackage dead, remove it. (Closes: #523450)
Now, KDE merely recommends update-notifier-kde (via kde-standard).
When I realized this, I thought Synaptic should be added to the desktop task. But the situation outside KDE is not what I thought.
In squeeze, gnome depended on synaptic. But GNOME metapackages no longer depend on Synaptic following http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-gnome?view=revision&revision=29732
It is not clear how intentional that is, but since then GNOME seems to only bring in gnome-packagekit.
As for LXDE and Xfce, it seems they do not bring in any front-end. I imagine these should bring in Synaptic.
If the above is right, I think desktop tasks should install Synaptic, but I am not sure about GNOME. In fact, I haven't been following the new front-ends drafted since I started using Debian (2004). GNOME PackageKit seems to claim a certain maturity, so I tried it. My very first impression is that although it's neat/shiny and apparently not too buggy, it's far from matching Synaptic in completeness. I hardly picture myself only using GNOME PackageKit, and I doubt it's a good idea to replace Synaptic with GNOME PackageKit.
Before going further, I apologize if I missed a previous discussion of the topic, I'm hardly keeping up these days. The only somewhat related discussion I found is "A Debian sprint for package management GUIs?", in November: http://lists.debian.org/debian-gtk-gnome/2011/11/msg00007.html
Unfortunately that discussion seems to be halted.
I have been using Synaptic for nearly 8 years and I watched it being maintained, but evolving very slowly. We simply have very little manpower working on APT front-ends, beyond the occasional attempts to write something new halted mid-way and a few projects that did produce interesting alternatives for specific use cases (such as upgrading). I would be very happy if some cross-distribution project could bring us a successor to Synaptic for free.
But I don't know if PackageKit (and front-ends) is ever going to match Synaptic's flexibility. And more importantly, I'm not sure that will be the case in time for wheezy. I would be inclined to "encourage" an alternative if we agreed it should be the long-term replacement, but not at any cost, and from what I saw, shipping GNOME PackageKit instead of Synaptic would have an important cost in the short term.
GNOME PackageKit entered testing in April 2011. Making it replace Synaptic would be replacing Synaptic with software that didn't go in stable yet.
"gnome-packagekit is not ready to be in the default install" according to http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=649014
That was however filed in November, and the only argument spelled out was a bug now fixed. I do not consider a lack of features as a reason to exclude software from the default install (unless the lack of a "feature" constitutes a bug), however it *is* a reason not to make that software *replace* another piece of software which is more complete.
In fact, if GNOME PackageKit is mature enough but still overall inferior to Synaptic, nothing prevents us from shipping both. Synaptic is lightweight. There is much redundancy between Synaptic and GNOME PackageKit, so this will bloat the interface, but I don't think shipping both would be worst than shipping only GNOME PackageKit overall. I saw a couple of things GNOME PackageKit has that Synaptic doesn't.
So what do others think? The current situation in KDE, LXDE and Xfce appears to be unintentional, but for GNOME, I'm wondering how intentional the situation is, and how desirable it is. Depending on the perceptions of GNOME PackageKit and Synaptic, I may ask that Synaptic be added to task-desktop, or that Synaptic be added to only KDE and maybe to LXDE and Xfce. Unless you have radically different ideas.
I'd like to emphasize that even though the future of APT front-ends might have an influence of which choice is best now, I wish that the future (post-wheezy) remains a marginal part of our choice, and that this discussion focuses more on determining what is better now (at least for wheezy) than on establishing an ideal future or speculating on what front-end will eventually be best.
Jon Dowland
Mar 28, 2012, 4:50:02 AM3/28/12
to
On 27/03/12 17:09, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> So what do others think?
I think that we need to separate the notion of a debian desktop from the
> So what do others think?
GNOME or KDE desktops. Synaptic is probably quite rightly not part of
either, but I agree that a "default desktop" via install should provide
a GUI package manager.
A Debian "desktop" should be a superset of KDE-desktop | GNOME-desktop |
LXDE-desktop etc. + things such as a GUI package manager.
I doubt this is something that could be achieved in time for wheezy.
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Goswin von Brederlow
Mar 30, 2012, 8:40:02 AM3/30/12
to
Jon Dowland <jm...@debian.org> writes:
> On 27/03/12 17:09, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
>> So what do others think?
>
> I think that we need to separate the notion of a debian desktop from
> the GNOME or KDE desktops. Synaptic is probably quite rightly not
> part of either, but I agree that a "default desktop" via install
> should provide a GUI package manager.
>
> A Debian "desktop" should be a superset of KDE-desktop | GNOME-desktop
> | LXDE-desktop etc. + things such as a GUI package manager.
>
> I doubt this is something that could be achieved in time for wheezy.
Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
> On 27/03/12 17:09, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
>> So what do others think?
>
> I think that we need to separate the notion of a debian desktop from
> the GNOME or KDE desktops. Synaptic is probably quite rightly not
> part of either, but I agree that a "default desktop" via install
> should provide a GUI package manager.
>
> A Debian "desktop" should be a superset of KDE-desktop | GNOME-desktop
> | LXDE-desktop etc. + things such as a GUI package manager.
>
> I doubt this is something that could be achieved in time for wheezy.
GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
desktop should have.
MfG
Goswin
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Jon Dowland
Mar 30, 2012, 9:00:01 AM3/30/12
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On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:37PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
> desktop should have.
I'm not sure if that's the right direction of dependency, conceptually.
> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
> desktop should have.
The philosophy of (at least) the GNOME metapackages is (I think: but I
am not (yet) a Debian/GNOME team member) that they provide what upstream
GNOME provides. So depending on a 'base-desktop' package would work
against that philosophy.
(It might turn out to be the most pragmatic thing to do.)
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Goswin von Brederlow
Mar 30, 2012, 4:20:02 PM3/30/12
to
Jon Dowland <jm...@debian.org> writes:
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:37PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
>> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
>> desktop should have.
>
> I'm not sure if that's the right direction of dependency, conceptually.
>
> The philosophy of (at least) the GNOME metapackages is (I think: but I
> am not (yet) a Debian/GNOME team member) that they provide what upstream
> GNOME provides. So depending on a 'base-desktop' package would work
> against that philosophy.
>
> (It might turn out to be the most pragmatic thing to do.)
Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
> On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:37PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
>> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
>> desktop should have.
>
> I'm not sure if that's the right direction of dependency, conceptually.
>
> The philosophy of (at least) the GNOME metapackages is (I think: but I
> am not (yet) a Debian/GNOME team member) that they provide what upstream
> GNOME provides. So depending on a 'base-desktop' package would work
> against that philosophy.
>
> (It might turn out to be the most pragmatic thing to do.)
gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
MfG
Goswin
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Josselin Mouette
Mar 31, 2012, 3:30:02 AM3/31/12
to
Le vendredi 30 mars 2012 à 22:12 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
I’d appreciate if you could stop beating a horse that’s been dead since
> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
before the lenny release. We know perfectly well how our metapackages
articulate with d-i, and vice versa, thank you.
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: :' :
`. `'
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Goswin von Brederlow
Mar 31, 2012, 11:20:01 AM3/31/12
to
Josselin Mouette <jo...@debian.org> writes:
> Le vendredi 30 mars 2012 à 22:12 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
>> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
>> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
>
> I’d appreciate if you could stop beating a horse that’s been dead since
> before the lenny release. We know perfectly well how our metapackages
> articulate with d-i, and vice versa, thank you.
So your answere to "There is no garphical package manager being
> Le vendredi 30 mars 2012 à 22:12 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
>> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
>> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
>
> I’d appreciate if you could stop beating a horse that’s been dead since
> before the lenny release. We know perfectly well how our metapackages
> articulate with d-i, and vice versa, thank you.
installed for the desktop" is "there is no problem"?
If my idea is bad then present a better one or say why it is bad so
people can think of something better. The initial problem is not solved
so it is far from a dead horse.
MfG
Goswin
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Josselin Mouette
Mar 31, 2012, 11:30:02 AM3/31/12
to
Le samedi 31 mars 2012 à 17:10 +0200, Goswin von Brederlow a écrit :
> So your answere to "There is no garphical package manager being
> installed for the desktop" is "there is no problem"?
It’s the KDE team’s problem. If they feel like a low-lever package
> So your answere to "There is no garphical package manager being
> installed for the desktop" is "there is no problem"?
manager is not necessary for their desktop, it’s definitely their choice
to make their metapackages so.
GNOME metapackages have included several package management UIs (one
low-level, one high-level, and more packages for extra features) for at
least two releases, and I don’t think this will stop (although it would
be nice to have a better integrated low-level UI).
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Matthias Klumpp
Mar 31, 2012, 1:10:02 PM3/31/12
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Hi!
As PackageKit maintainer, I would like to say that we have
GNOME-PackageKit as high-lever package manager and Synaptic as
low-level PM for GNOME, and that Apper as a high-level package manager
is available on KDE.
So, I don't really see a problem with package-managers itself here,
you would just need to make one default for the metapackages.
Regards,
Matthias
2012/3/31 Josselin Mouette <jo...@debian.org>:
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKNHny_7yDLZwx4V-UKQhr9-...@mail.gmail.com
As PackageKit maintainer, I would like to say that we have
GNOME-PackageKit as high-lever package manager and Synaptic as
low-level PM for GNOME, and that Apper as a high-level package manager
is available on KDE.
So, I don't really see a problem with package-managers itself here,
you would just need to make one default for the metapackages.
Regards,
Matthias
2012/3/31 Josselin Mouette <jo...@debian.org>:
Filipus Klutiero
Apr 1, 2012, 5:30:01 PM4/1/12
to
Hi Jon,
Jon Dowland wrote:
> A Debian "desktop" should be a superset of KDE-desktop | GNOME-desktop
> | LXDE-desktop etc. + things such as a GUI package manager.
I am not sure what you mean by that, but task-desktop already looks like
what you may have in mind. It recommends task-gnome-desktop |
task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-xfce-desktop. It does not
depend on them, however (but these packages themselves depend on
task-desktop, so depending on them would create some kind of circular
dependency).
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Jon Dowland wrote:
> A Debian "desktop" should be a superset of KDE-desktop | GNOME-desktop
> | LXDE-desktop etc. + things such as a GUI package manager.
what you may have in mind. It recommends task-gnome-desktop |
task-kde-desktop | task-lxde-desktop | task-xfce-desktop. It does not
depend on them, however (but these packages themselves depend on
task-desktop, so depending on them would create some kind of circular
dependency).
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Filipus Klutiero
Apr 1, 2012, 5:40:01 PM4/1/12
to
Hi Goswin,
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Jon Dowland<jm...@debian.org> writes:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:37PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> >> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
> >> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
> >> desktop should have.
> >
> > I'm not sure if that's the right direction of dependency, conceptually.
> >
> > The philosophy of (at least) the GNOME metapackages is (I think: but I
> > am not (yet) a Debian/GNOME team member) that they provide what upstream
> > GNOME provides. So depending on a 'base-desktop' package would work
> > against that philosophy.
> >
> > (It might turn out to be the most pragmatic thing to do.)
>
> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
I'm not sure what you mean by "GNOME-desktop" / "KDE-desktop" as opposed
to "gnome".
But task-gnome-desktop already depends on task-desktop. This is a
tasksel task, but it's also a real package now (obviously, the
advantages of tasksel should be integrated with regular package managers
at one point, and we should merge tasksel tasks and regular metapackages).
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Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Jon Dowland<jm...@debian.org> writes:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 02:30:37PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> >> Shouldn't there rather be a base-desktop that both KDE-desktop and
> >> GNOME-desktop depend on? A meta package that depends on everything any
> >> desktop should have.
> >
> > I'm not sure if that's the right direction of dependency, conceptually.
> >
> > The philosophy of (at least) the GNOME metapackages is (I think: but I
> > am not (yet) a Debian/GNOME team member) that they provide what upstream
> > GNOME provides. So depending on a 'base-desktop' package would work
> > against that philosophy.
> >
> > (It might turn out to be the most pragmatic thing to do.)
>
> Gnome-desktop, not gnome. Gnome-desktop would depend on base-deskop and
> gnome and maybe a few more gnome-ish things that aren't in gnome.
to "gnome".
But task-gnome-desktop already depends on task-desktop. This is a
tasksel task, but it's also a real package now (obviously, the
advantages of tasksel should be integrated with regular package managers
at one point, and we should merge tasksel tasks and regular metapackages).
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Filipus Klutiero
Apr 5, 2012, 8:30:02 PM4/5/12
to
This didn't generate as much feedback as I hoped, but I filed a ticket
asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
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asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
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Filipus Klutiero
Jun 27, 2012, 11:40:04 AM6/27/12
to
On 2012-04-05 20:20, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> This didn't generate as much feedback as I hoped, but I filed a ticket
> asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
Joey Hess changed tasks to bring Synaptic in KDE, LXDE and Xfce. Only
> This didn't generate as much feedback as I hoped, but I filed a ticket
> asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
the GNOME situation is unchanged (Josselin Mouette alleged that gnome
already pulls in Synaptic).
tasksel 3.10 should migrate to testing shortly.
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Matthias Klumpp
Jun 27, 2012, 3:00:02 PM6/27/12
to
Hi!
How odd that I didn't notice that bug... (I'm the GPK/PK maintainer)
Well, I think pulling in Synaptic on KDE might be a bad idea, probably
KDE desktop packages should pull in Apper instead, a KDE package
manager based on PackageKit and fully integrated into the KDE desktop.
It does not provide all functions of Synaptic, but for most users it
will be good enough and KDE can avoid pulling in many GNOME packages.
About the GNOME side: I already splitted up the GNOME-PackageKit
package, but I didn't upload the changes to unstable. Splitting the
package means that you will be able to install some components of GPK
(the update manager, software manager and helper tools) independently
from each other. This might be useful in the current situation. (so
only the parts of GPK which are needed are present and people can use
Synaptic for other things. E.g. the update-manager can bes used with
Synaptic, and people don't have two package managers installed)
Don't think uploading the splitted version at time would be a good
idea, so I think the current solution is okay, if the GNOME team wants
it. (which seems to be the case)
Thanks for the attention :-)
Cheers,
Matthias
2012/6/27 Filipus Klutiero <che...@gmail.com>:
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKNHny8vr06Ug7yX-3HfVxTSKdNzDxiDBUe67rfgGmF0=5t...@mail.gmail.com
How odd that I didn't notice that bug... (I'm the GPK/PK maintainer)
Well, I think pulling in Synaptic on KDE might be a bad idea, probably
KDE desktop packages should pull in Apper instead, a KDE package
manager based on PackageKit and fully integrated into the KDE desktop.
It does not provide all functions of Synaptic, but for most users it
will be good enough and KDE can avoid pulling in many GNOME packages.
About the GNOME side: I already splitted up the GNOME-PackageKit
package, but I didn't upload the changes to unstable. Splitting the
package means that you will be able to install some components of GPK
(the update manager, software manager and helper tools) independently
from each other. This might be useful in the current situation. (so
only the parts of GPK which are needed are present and people can use
Synaptic for other things. E.g. the update-manager can bes used with
Synaptic, and people don't have two package managers installed)
Don't think uploading the splitted version at time would be a good
idea, so I think the current solution is okay, if the GNOME team wants
it. (which seems to be the case)
Thanks for the attention :-)
Cheers,
Matthias
2012/6/27 Filipus Klutiero <che...@gmail.com>:
Filipus Klutiero
Jun 27, 2012, 5:50:02 PM6/27/12
to
Hi Matthias,
On 2012-06-27 14:54, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> Hi!
> How odd that I didn't notice that bug... (I'm the GPK/PK maintainer)
> Well, I think pulling in Synaptic on KDE might be a bad idea, probably
> KDE desktop packages should pull in Apper instead, a KDE package
> manager based on PackageKit and fully integrated into the KDE desktop.
> It does not provide all functions of Synaptic, but for most users it
> will be good enough and KDE can avoid pulling in many GNOME packages.
>
Synaptic is at best just a little GNOME-ish, beyond its GTK-ness. In
reality, installing Synaptic would install just a little more than Apper
- perhaps. Apper probably does integrate with KDE, but this is a small
advantage compared to the difference in maturity. I wouldn't be strongly
against installing Apper by default, but replacing Synaptic is a bigger
challenge.
[...]
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On 2012-06-27 14:54, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> Hi!
> How odd that I didn't notice that bug... (I'm the GPK/PK maintainer)
> Well, I think pulling in Synaptic on KDE might be a bad idea, probably
> KDE desktop packages should pull in Apper instead, a KDE package
> manager based on PackageKit and fully integrated into the KDE desktop.
> It does not provide all functions of Synaptic, but for most users it
> will be good enough and KDE can avoid pulling in many GNOME packages.
>
reality, installing Synaptic would install just a little more than Apper
- perhaps. Apper probably does integrate with KDE, but this is a small
advantage compared to the difference in maturity. I wouldn't be strongly
against installing Apper by default, but replacing Synaptic is a bigger
challenge.
[...]
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Filipus Klutiero
Jul 19, 2012, 8:30:02 PM7/19/12
to
On 2012-06-27 11:34, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> On 2012-04-05 20:20, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
>> This didn't generate as much feedback as I hoped, but I filed a
>> ticket asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
>
> Joey Hess changed tasks to bring Synaptic in KDE, LXDE and Xfce. Only
> the GNOME situation is unchanged (Josselin Mouette alleged that gnome
> already pulls in Synaptic).
I tested d-i last week and accidentally installled GNOME. This allowed
> On 2012-04-05 20:20, Filipus Klutiero wrote:
>> This didn't generate as much feedback as I hoped, but I filed a
>> ticket asking task-desktop to install synaptic:
>> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=667703
>
> Joey Hess changed tasks to bring Synaptic in KDE, LXDE and Xfce. Only
> the GNOME situation is unchanged (Josselin Mouette alleged that gnome
> already pulls in Synaptic).
me to confirm that GNOME does not pull Synaptic in testing.
> tasksel 3.10 should migrate to testing shortly.
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Joey Hess
Jul 21, 2012, 12:50:01 PM7/21/12
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Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> I tested d-i last week and accidentally installled GNOME. This
> allowed me to confirm that GNOME does not pull Synaptic in testing.
gnome-core depends on nautilus, which recommends synaptic.
> I tested d-i last week and accidentally installled GNOME. This
> allowed me to confirm that GNOME does not pull Synaptic in testing.
Unless such recommends are being skipped by something, it should be
installed.
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Zlatan Todoric
Jul 21, 2012, 1:00:02 PM7/21/12
to
Hi,
I also installed few times already wheezy with GNOME and
there was never synaptic (PackageKit was the default).
Cheers,
zlatan
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Its not the COST, its the VALUE!
Per Olofsson
Jul 21, 2012, 4:40:02 PM7/21/12
to
2012-07-21 18:37, Joey Hess skrev:
> gnome-core depends on nautilus, which recommends synaptic.
> Unless such recommends are being skipped by something, it should be
> installed.
nautilus (3.2.1-2) unstable; urgency=low
> gnome-core depends on nautilus, which recommends synaptic.
> Unless such recommends are being skipped by something, it should be
> installed.
...
- Drop Recommends on synaptic and app-install-data. We no longer call
synaptic for mimetypes without a handler as this functionality is
provided by alternatives like PackageKit or sessioninstaller now.
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Pelle
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Joey Hess
Jul 21, 2012, 7:50:02 PM7/21/12
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Per Olofsson wrote:
> 2012-07-21 18:37, Joey Hess skrev:
> > gnome-core depends on nautilus, which recommends synaptic.
> > Unless such recommends are being skipped by something, it should be
> > installed.
>
>
> nautilus (3.2.1-2) unstable; urgency=low
>
> ...
> - Drop Recommends on synaptic and app-install-data. We no longer call
> synaptic for mimetypes without a handler as this functionality is
> provided by alternatives like PackageKit or sessioninstaller now.
I see.. I see this was mentioned before in this bug report, just before
> 2012-07-21 18:37, Joey Hess skrev:
> > gnome-core depends on nautilus, which recommends synaptic.
> > Unless such recommends are being skipped by something, it should be
> > installed.
>
>
> nautilus (3.2.1-2) unstable; urgency=low
>
> ...
> - Drop Recommends on synaptic and app-install-data. We no longer call
> synaptic for mimetypes without a handler as this functionality is
> provided by alternatives like PackageKit or sessioninstaller now.
it got closed a month ago. Opening a new bug report is probably a good way
to avoid things like this getting lost. :/ Fixed in git.
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Karsten Malcher
Jul 25, 2012, 7:00:02 PM7/25/12
to
Hi,
just have a look here:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=605133
Obviously there is no interest for a package manager in X any more.
So back to the roots with aptitude ... ;-)
Or maybe the idea is that Debian has to be a distribution for servers only?
Here is no response in the same way:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2012/02/msg00026.html
Cheers
Karsten
P.S.
This is the newest thread i reply here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/03/msg00829.html
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just have a look here:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=605133
Obviously there is no interest for a package manager in X any more.
So back to the roots with aptitude ... ;-)
Or maybe the idea is that Debian has to be a distribution for servers only?
Here is no response in the same way:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2012/02/msg00026.html
Cheers
Karsten
P.S.
This is the newest thread i reply here:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/03/msg00829.html
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