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Bug#1055466: rsyslog: Rsyslog in Bookworm dropped SysVinit script
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Patrik Schindler
Nov 6, 2023, 3:00:05 PM11/6/23
to
Package: rsyslog
Version: 8.2302.0-1
Severity: important
Surprisingly, after upgrading to Bookworm, the SysVinit script to start rsyslog
is no longer there. This renders rsyslog unusable for SysVinit users without
manual intervention.
Rsyslog has been the main syslog service for many years until Debian people
choose to adopt Systemd like everybody else.
Existing SysVinit installations silently fail to write logs after upgrading
which is a serious condition for servers.
Because SysVinit is still supported in Debian in general, please revive
SysVinit support.
Related: bug 1055463.
-- System Information:
Debian Release: 12.2
APT prefers stable-updates
APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable-security'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386
Kernel: Linux 6.1.0-13-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)
Versions of packages rsyslog depends on:
ii libc6 2.36-9+deb12u3
ii libestr0 0.1.11-1
ii libfastjson4 1.2304.0-1
ii liblognorm5 2.0.6-4
ii libsystemd0 252.17-1~deb12u1
ii libuuid1 2.38.1-5+b1
ii libzstd1 1.5.4+dfsg2-5
ii zlib1g 1:1.2.13.dfsg-1
Versions of packages rsyslog recommends:
ii logrotate 3.21.0-1
Versions of packages rsyslog suggests:
pn rsyslog-doc <none>
pn rsyslog-gssapi <none>
pn rsyslog-mongodb <none>
pn rsyslog-mysql | rsyslog-pgsql <none>
pn rsyslog-openssl | rsyslog-gnutls <none>
pn rsyslog-relp <none>
-- Configuration Files:
/etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/rsyslog [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/rsyslog'
/etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog changed [not included]
/etc/rsyslog.conf changed [not included]
-- no debconf information
Version: 8.2302.0-1
Severity: important
Surprisingly, after upgrading to Bookworm, the SysVinit script to start rsyslog
is no longer there. This renders rsyslog unusable for SysVinit users without
manual intervention.
Rsyslog has been the main syslog service for many years until Debian people
choose to adopt Systemd like everybody else.
Existing SysVinit installations silently fail to write logs after upgrading
which is a serious condition for servers.
Because SysVinit is still supported in Debian in general, please revive
SysVinit support.
Related: bug 1055463.
-- System Information:
Debian Release: 12.2
APT prefers stable-updates
APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable-security'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)
Foreign Architectures: i386
Kernel: Linux 6.1.0-13-amd64 (SMP w/2 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)
Versions of packages rsyslog depends on:
ii libc6 2.36-9+deb12u3
ii libestr0 0.1.11-1
ii libfastjson4 1.2304.0-1
ii liblognorm5 2.0.6-4
ii libsystemd0 252.17-1~deb12u1
ii libuuid1 2.38.1-5+b1
ii libzstd1 1.5.4+dfsg2-5
ii zlib1g 1:1.2.13.dfsg-1
Versions of packages rsyslog recommends:
ii logrotate 3.21.0-1
Versions of packages rsyslog suggests:
pn rsyslog-doc <none>
pn rsyslog-gssapi <none>
pn rsyslog-mongodb <none>
pn rsyslog-mysql | rsyslog-pgsql <none>
pn rsyslog-openssl | rsyslog-gnutls <none>
pn rsyslog-relp <none>
-- Configuration Files:
/etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/rsyslog [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/etc/logcheck/ignore.d.server/rsyslog'
/etc/logrotate.d/rsyslog changed [not included]
/etc/rsyslog.conf changed [not included]
-- no debconf information
Patrik Schindler
Nov 6, 2023, 6:20:04 PM11/6/23
to
Am 06.11.2023 um 21:09 schrieb Michael Biebl <bi...@debian.org>:
> Not correct. If you have sysvinit-core installed, it will pull in orphan-sysvinit-scripts by default which ships a rsyslog sysv init script.
I have sysvinit-core installed and orphan-sysvinit-scripts was not pulled in automatically.
In fact, I wasn't aware about orphan-sysvinit-scripts until just now. I would have expected something that important to be mentioned in the "issues" documentation: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-moreinfo.en.html
For Debian 11, there was no need for this package and it's also not mentioned in the bullseye documentation: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html
>> Existing SysVinit installations silently fail to write logs after upgrading which is a serious condition for servers.
>
> Not true, see above.
Well, true from my experience with thee VMs I've upgraded so far. Two of these were templates to be cloned to production machines, so I did't check if syslog was running.
Bottom line: Something about dependencies went wrong in an unexpected way. The first time that it had such grave impact. I'm using Debian since 3.0 and was very happy that system upgrades were rather painless. Until now.
>> Because SysVinit is still supported in Debian in general, please revive SysVinit support.
>
> Sorry, this is not going to happen.
> sysvinit is dead. orphan-sysvinit-scripts is a bandaid for stragglers, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not a straggler, I just don't see Systemd out-benefitting SysVinit in terms of debug-ability and clarity how it works. My view is 100% server centric. When I'm called out on a Sunday at 3am in hungover state because an important server does a hiccup, and the customer tried to "fix" things and broke that even more and all the machine shows is a blinking cursor, the least that I want to cope with is with Systemd intricacies.
I'm sure the arguments have all been exchanged when people outvoted Debian to do like everybody else and switch to Systemd. No more to say from my part.
:wq! PoC
> Not correct. If you have sysvinit-core installed, it will pull in orphan-sysvinit-scripts by default which ships a rsyslog sysv init script.
I have sysvinit-core installed and orphan-sysvinit-scripts was not pulled in automatically.
In fact, I wasn't aware about orphan-sysvinit-scripts until just now. I would have expected something that important to be mentioned in the "issues" documentation: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-moreinfo.en.html
For Debian 11, there was no need for this package and it's also not mentioned in the bullseye documentation: https://www.debian.org/releases/bullseye/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html
>> Existing SysVinit installations silently fail to write logs after upgrading which is a serious condition for servers.
>
Well, true from my experience with thee VMs I've upgraded so far. Two of these were templates to be cloned to production machines, so I did't check if syslog was running.
Bottom line: Something about dependencies went wrong in an unexpected way. The first time that it had such grave impact. I'm using Debian since 3.0 and was very happy that system upgrades were rather painless. Until now.
>> Because SysVinit is still supported in Debian in general, please revive SysVinit support.
>
> sysvinit is dead. orphan-sysvinit-scripts is a bandaid for stragglers, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not a straggler, I just don't see Systemd out-benefitting SysVinit in terms of debug-ability and clarity how it works. My view is 100% server centric. When I'm called out on a Sunday at 3am in hungover state because an important server does a hiccup, and the customer tried to "fix" things and broke that even more and all the machine shows is a blinking cursor, the least that I want to cope with is with Systemd intricacies.
I'm sure the arguments have all been exchanged when people outvoted Debian to do like everybody else and switch to Systemd. No more to say from my part.
:wq! PoC
Patrik Schindler
Nov 6, 2023, 8:30:05 PM11/6/23
to
Am 07.11.2023 um 01:05 schrieb Michael Biebl <bi...@debian.org>:
> Am 07.11.23 um 00:09 schrieb Patrik Schindler:
> It is expected that users how do that know what they are doing and are aware of the consequences.
Now you're making it too easy for you by simply putting the blame back.
Recommends always pulled in a lot of bloat, so I disabled this many releases ago, for a very reason, without any adverse effect *ever*.
And now disabled *recommendations* make a system partly fail after upgrade.
First: This shows that orphan-sysvinit-scripts should be pulled in as dependency and not as recommendation, at least with Bookworm. Which is a moot point because this is a bug report about rsyslogd.
Second: This also shows that separating initscripts from the core packages has been a bad idea. You can't fix things with technology when politics are involved.
:wq! PoC
> Am 07.11.23 um 00:09 schrieb Patrik Schindler:
>> Am 06.11.2023 um 21:09 schrieb Michael Biebl <bi...@debian.org>:
>>> Not correct. If you have sysvinit-core installed, it will pull in orphan-sysvinit-scripts by default which ships a rsyslog sysv init script.
>> I have sysvinit-core installed and orphan-sysvinit-scripts was not pulled in automatically.
>
> Which means you have Recommends disabled (which is not the Debian default).
>>> Not correct. If you have sysvinit-core installed, it will pull in orphan-sysvinit-scripts by default which ships a rsyslog sysv init script.
>> I have sysvinit-core installed and orphan-sysvinit-scripts was not pulled in automatically.
>
> It is expected that users how do that know what they are doing and are aware of the consequences.
Now you're making it too easy for you by simply putting the blame back.
Recommends always pulled in a lot of bloat, so I disabled this many releases ago, for a very reason, without any adverse effect *ever*.
And now disabled *recommendations* make a system partly fail after upgrade.
First: This shows that orphan-sysvinit-scripts should be pulled in as dependency and not as recommendation, at least with Bookworm. Which is a moot point because this is a bug report about rsyslogd.
Second: This also shows that separating initscripts from the core packages has been a bad idea. You can't fix things with technology when politics are involved.
:wq! PoC
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