Running Linux on a Jesurun A19 Android media player

[Jason]

Hi,

I recently bought a Jesurun A19 Android media player that is based on the Allwinner A20 SOC.

I would like to run either Linux or the stock android ROM from an SD card. However, I'm struggling to make progress.

Here's what I've done so far:

I tried various SD Card bootable Linux distributions build for the Cubieboard. I eventually found one (Cubieez) that (mostly) works with the Jesurun A19. However, networking (both wired and wireless) doesn't work.

I did however, manage to extract the stock android image from the internal NAND chip by running dd on the Linux command line.

I then tried flashing the image to an SD card. When I put the SD card in a PC, it recognises and mounts the first partition (which appears to be in FAT format). This has enabled me to access various boot files including script.bin.

Unfortunately, I cannot access any of the other partitions. As far as I can tell, the image doesn't have a standard partition table.

I tried replacing the Cubieez script.bin with the script.bin file that I extracted from the stock Android image. However, networking still isn't working.

I'm rapidly running out of ideas. Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Jason

[Luc Verhaegen]

Have you tried looking at our wiki?

There's this section called "Allwinner based devices" on the front page
of our wiki: http://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page

It reads:

"If you are looking for support for your device from the sunxi community
here, please take a look at our guide to identifying your device. If you
cannot find your device, then you might need to work through our new
device howto."

Maybe it could be important.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

Yes I did read the wiki. It's how I found this google group.

None of the devices listed is the same as mine.

I'm happy to upload any files and/or info somewhere if it will help. However, it wasn't clear from the wiki how to do that.

[Luc Verhaegen]

Try reading that sentence on the wiki _again_.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Simos Xenitellis]

Hi Jason,

Have a look at http://linux-sunxi.org/New_Device_howto which has instructions on how to create a page such as, let's say, http://linux-sunxi.org/Pineriver_H24 for the Pineriver H24 device. 

Here is the list of all boards on the Wiki, http://linux-sunxi.org/Category:Boards 

Your new page will be at http://linux-sunxi.org/Jesurun_A19

Your original question is, how can I put the NAND contents on a μSD memory card and boot from there (μSD). 

There are some small complexities that make it difficult to give targeted advice. 

Can you try the easiest step with BerryBoot? Have a look at the generic instructions at http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard/FirstSteps#Preparing_the_Berryboot_microSD_card_using_the_Android_SD_card_writer_app 

Berryboot apparently also supports the A20, so it might work to create an initial working bootable SD card.

Simos

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[Jason]

Simos,

Thanks for your reply.

I've just started populating the wiki page but it's still not clear to me how to upload files, and where to upload them to. The wiki has a file upload facility but it's only for small files, and only seems to support a limited range of file types.

I'd like to upload the stock Android image, and the .fex file. Can you tell me how to do this?

Thanks,

Jason

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:29:14AM -0700, Jason wrote:
> Simos,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I've just started populating the wiki page but it's still not clear to me
> how to upload files, and where to upload them to. The wiki has a file
> upload facility but it's only for small files, and only seems to support a
> limited range of file types.
>
> I'd like to upload the stock Android image,

You do not upload the stock android image. period.

Try following the New Device Howto to the letter.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

I had another go at this over the weekend and made some progress.

I managed to extract the DRAM configuration parameters from the board and used them to compile a new version of u-boot for my device.

I then used dd to transfer the boot files to my existing Cubieez image, and copied the stock script.bin file to the boot partition.

The Cubieez image still boots successfully so at least I know that my version of u-boot is working. However, wired and wireless networking still doesn't work.

I'm guessing that I'll need to compile a new kernel with the necessary driver support built in (unless someone here has an alternative suggestion as to why networking isn't working). However, I've encountered a few major roadblocks.

Firstly, I'm not sure what networking chipsets are build into my device. I've found the manufacturer of my device (www.rshtech.cn) but there are no specs on their website. Is there some command I can run within Linux to find out what chipsets are being used?

Assuming I can get this information, would someone here be able to tell me what compiler parameters I'll need to set to create a suitable kernel image? The number of parameters available is quite daunting.

Oh, and to preempt one possible response from a certain person here, I've already read the "New Device Howto". In fact I've read it repeatedly, and attempted to follow it to the letter. However, it glosses over the above points.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Jason

[Luc Verhaegen]

If you had done more than just copy the template on
http://linux-sunxi.org/Jesurun_A19 and had actually provided some
content, then we would've had some basis to try to help you here.

But you haven't yet, so we can not and will not help you yet.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

Luc, I deliberately ignored your earlier sarcasm. If you don't want to help then that's fine no one's forcing you to. But your incessant (and utterly pointless) RTFM style responses to every question are now becoming irritating.

Your request that others respect proper 'netiquette' would carry more weight if you practiced what you preach.

I've already read the unnecessarily aggressive (and slightly obnoxious) message on the 'New Device Howto' page which basically says you won't provide any help until someone's worked through the guide. I get it. You don't need to repeat it.

The problem with the NDH (as you insist on calling it) is that, in many places, it's vague and/or incomplete. More importantly, it assumes that the reader already possesses a vast amount of hightly specialised knowledge. The hoops you expect someone to jump through before you'll deign to help them are frankly ridiculous. You're basically saying that you expect someone to spend many days working everything out from first principles, and finally get to the point where they don't really need any help, before you'll help them!

What's even more ridiculous is that I'm trying to work through the damn NDH! But I can't submit my u-boot patches (or presumably anything else) until I create a 'complete' (whatever that means) device page, and I can't complete a device page until I know more about my device! Hence my questions.

[Luc Verhaegen]

What you do not see is that the NDH makes very important information
accessible to those that you are asking for help here.

In this specific case:
* A fex file will tell us how your wifi is connected, so we can give
constructive hints on how to further identify this chip from there.
* A good picture of your board will help us identify your chips.
* ...

If the NDH is vague on things, then it is probably because people never
really encountered those issues before. We have come up with 2 obscure
wifi makers so far, and yet we seem to have managed just fine. And if we
would cover all eventualities, then you would be even less willing to
read through all of it.

Go fill up the page with any information you retrieved already, as you
go along, not at the very end of the process. The NDH is very very clear
on that. Also, our mailing list rejects no patches. They might not hit
the repos, but they will be here for all to see.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Stefan Monnier]

> I had another go at this over the weekend and made some progress.
> I managed to extract the DRAM configuration parameters from the board and
> used them to compile a new version of u-boot for my device.

Great. Now try to get the script.bin file from flash (while booted in
Android). It should be in the /dev/block/nanda device.

> Firstly, I'm not sure what networking chipsets are build into my device.

The Ethernet is built into the SoC, so there's not much to discover on
this front. The wifi is separate, so it can vary. To figure out which
you have, you can look for the info in "dmesg", or you can look at the
chips on the motherboard.

> I've found the manufacturer of my device (www.rshtech.cn) but there are no
> specs on their website. Is there some command I can run within Linux to
> find out what chipsets are being used?

"dmesg" often includes that somewhere.

> Assuming I can get this information, would someone here be able to tell me
> what compiler parameters I'll need to set to create a suitable kernel
> image?

Usually you don't need any special kernel parameters: just use
a run-of-the-mill image for Allwinner. The only thing you need is to
script.fex/script.bin file (which you extracted above).

> Oh, and to preempt one possible response from a certain person here, I've
> already read the "New Device Howto". In fact I've read it repeatedly, and
> attempted to follow it to the letter. However, it glosses over the above
> points.

If you can point to specific parts of the NDH you don't understand, that
would help. Better yet, after you figured it out, you can fix the
NDH to make it more understandable.


Stefan

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:23:46PM +0200, Luc Verhaegen wrote:
>
> What you do not see is that the NDH makes very important information
> accessible to those that you are asking for help here.
>
> In this specific case:
> * A fex file will tell us how your wifi is connected, so we can give
> constructive hints on how to further identify this chip from there.
> * A good picture of your board will help us identify your chips.
> * ...
>
> If the NDH is vague on things, then it is probably because people never
> really encountered those issues before. We have come up with 2 obscure
> wifi makers so far, and yet we seem to have managed just fine. And if we
> would cover all eventualities, then you would be even less willing to
> read through all of it.
>
> Go fill up the page with any information you retrieved already, as you
> go along, not at the very end of the process. The NDH is very very clear
> on that. Also, our mailing list rejects no patches. They might not hit
> the repos, but they will be here for all to see.
>
> Luc Verhaegen.

I have now spelled this out at the top of our NDH as well:

http://linux-sunxi.org/New_Device_howto#.22Why_do_people_keep_on_telling_me_to_NDH_while_I_have_a_specific_question.21.22

But do keep on expecting us to waste our time trying to help you.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

Thanks for your reply. You've given me some genuinely useful information.

If all I need to do is edit the fex file in some way to get wired networking working then it might be worth persevering. I should point out however, that I've already tried the script.bin file that came with the stock Android image.

Anyway, I'll upload the fex file and the u-boot batches this weekend, assuming of course that Luc hasn't locked my account by that time.

Regards,

Jason

[Jason]

Right. So your response is to make the message even more aggressive and obnoxious. You just don't get it do you.

I've been following this forum for several weeks now, and I have to say the traffic is minimal. All I ever seem to see is patch submissions, and an occasional debate about GPL compliance. And almost every question (not just mine) is either ignored or met with a pointless RTFM style response. This is hardly what I would describe as a "very active and advanced" community.

If you're happy with this state of affairs then feel free to continue as you are. But if you want this community to thrive then it needs to attract new members, and that's only going to happen if you become more welcoming.

You keep banging on about how people like me are wasting your precious time. But it cuts both ways. No one is under any obligation to participate in this community. For most people, this is just a silly hobby. No one really needs Linux to run on their cheap throwaway Android devices, that will be obsolete in a year anyway. I can assure you that 99% of people reading through your wiki will be massively put off by the aggressive tone, and the crazy hoops they're expected to jump through, and just walk away. Seriously, who needs the aggro. Life's too short.

Frankly, I don't think you're an appropriate person to be administering the wiki. You clearly lack the tact and social skills to do the job in a professional way. Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, your attitude is at least part of the reason why Allwinner is reluctant to engage with this community?

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 05:50:23AM -0700, Jason wrote:
> Right. So your response is to make the message even more aggressive and
> obnoxious. You just don't get it do you.
>
> I've been following this forum for several weeks now, and I have to say the
> traffic is minimal. All I ever seem to see is patch submissions, and an
> occasional debate about GPL compliance. And almost every question (not just
> mine) is either ignored or met with a pointless RTFM style response. This
> is hardly what I would describe as a "very active and advanced" community.
>
> If you're happy with this state of affairs then feel free to continue as
> you are. But if you want this community to thrive then it needs to attract
> new members, and that's only going to happen if you become more welcoming.
>
> You keep banging on about how people like me are wasting your precious
> time. But it cuts both ways. No one is under any obligation to participate
> in this community. For most people, this is just a silly hobby. No one
> really needs Linux to run on their cheap throwaway Android devices, that
> will be obsolete in a year anyway. I can assure you that 99% of people
> reading through your wiki will be massively put off by the aggressive tone,
> and the crazy hoops they're expected to jump through, and just walk away.
> Seriously, who needs the aggro. Life's too short.
>
> Frankly, I don't think you're an appropriate person to be administering the
> wiki. You clearly lack the tact and social skills to do the job in a
> professional way. Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe, your
> attitude is at least part of the reason why Allwinner is reluctant to
> engage with this community?

Administering the wiki is not the right word for it, and it isn't all
that i do. I have been active here for well over 2 years, i have seen
many people come and go with the same questions and the same attitude.
If it wasn't for the wiki and NDH, you'd be much much further off and
you would not be asking specifics today yet.

If you think that this is not a highly active community, feel free to
buy other hardware with another SoC.

Now stop crying, and go fill up your device page in a way that gives us
something to work from, so that we at some point might actually be able
to answer your questions.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Tim Tisdall]

On Thursday, 11 September 2014 09:07:37 UTC-4, Luc Verhaegen wrote:

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 05:50:23AM -0700, Jason wrote:
> Right. So your response is to make the message even more aggressive and
> obnoxious. You just don't get it do you.

Aiya!  Let's all take it down a notch.

Luc is a little gruff sometimes (okay, a lot of times), but he usually has a valid point.  The issue is you're asking us to help you make some random wifi device work without giving us any more details about what this random device is or even something that might help us figure that out (like the fex file or even photos of the chips on the board).  Usually what you need to do to get a wifi device to work is identify what it is and then load the appropriate module in the kernel.  Occasionally the manufacturer has screwed up the fex file (the compiled version being script.bin), but it's best to start with just making sure the proper driver/kernel module is loaded.

I also think the wiki points out that the fex file is gotten by using the sunxi-tools to "decompile" the script.bin file and then is stored in the github repo.  You can submit a pull request to the boards repo, but it may not be accepted until it's clear that this board is going to work with everything else (which is demonstrated by completing a page in the wiki).  The wiki page example also has a link to the wiki's upload page to upload photos of the device and board.

As with any open source community, there's a give and take.  There's often too many people who just want to take what they need and then go away and that often annoys the people who tend to give a lot more than they take.  Luc is a person who gives way more than he takes in this community.  Since you're new, and you're simply asking along the lines of "make my device work", it'd be natural to assume that you're in the "just take" column until proven otherwise.  Going through the New Device Howto and sharing everything you can about your device shows that you're in the "give" column.

-Tim

[Priit Laes]

Ühel kenal päeval, K, 10.09.2014 kell 14:14, kirjutas Jason:
> Luc, I deliberately ignored your earlier sarcasm. If you don't want
> to help then that's fine no one's forcing you to. But your incessant
> (and utterly pointless) RTFM style responses to every question are
> now becoming irritating.
>
> Your request that others respect proper 'netiquette' would carry
> more weight if you practiced what you preach.
>
> I've already read the unnecessarily aggressive (and slightly
> obnoxious) message on the 'New Device Howto' page which basically
> says you won't provide any help until someone's worked through the
> guide. I get it. You don't need to repeat it.
>
> The problem with the NDH (as you insist on calling it) is that, in
> many places, it's vague and/or incomplete. More importantly, it
> assumes that the reader already possesses a vast amount of hightly
> specialised knowledge. The hoops you expect someone to jump through
> before you'll deign to help them are frankly ridiculous. You're
> basically saying that you expect someone to spend many days working
> everything out from first principles, and finally get to the point
> where they don't really need any help, before you'll help them!

Ok, I took a look at the Jesurun A19 page in the wiki and the only
updated added information there is the stock Android build information
under Identification section.

> What's even more ridiculous is that I'm trying to work through the
> damn NDH! But I can't submit my u-boot patches (or presumably
> anything else) until I create a 'complete' (whatever that means)
> device page, and I can't complete a device page until I know more
> about my device! Hence my questions.

While you certainly had time to figure out how to extract dram
information, compile a working u-boot and even extract the stock
android image from the internal NAND chip, you simply haven't even
tried to update the wiki page of your device.

If it helps, you might get a lot of information about various drivers
from the kernel logs (man dmesg).

So that's basically all the info WE could provide you, because you're
the one who actually has the device.

Päikest,
Priit Laes :)

[Neal Peacock]

Jason, try running lsusb and posting the results.  A lot of Wi-Fi chips will be some slight variant that requires its own driver and I have found the id is the best place to start.

Keep in mind if your driver isn't in the community's kernel already porting is probably required.

Don't give up, you are on the threshold of a very large and rewarding experience but it's going to take some work.

[Stefan Monnier]

> Anyway, I'll upload the fex file and the u-boot batches this weekend,
> assuming of course that Luc hasn't locked my account by that time.

Please upload photos as well.


Stefan

[John S]

On Wed, 10/9/14, Jason <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

> The problem with the NDH (as you insist on calling it) is that, in many places, it's vague and/or incomplete.

Then please provide the details of what is like that so it can be fixed or suggest the fixes.

You could be part of the solution. People who have failed to help are numerous.

John

[Paul Jones]

Well, for starters I found it very annoying having to constantly jump between pages all the time. I kept getting lost and having to go back to the start again, then I somehow take a different path the next time. All the other bring up how-to guides I've used have been one page per section, or one page in total, but all steps are in chronological order: not just hyperlinks to mid way through some other random page. Perhaps it makes sense to the pros who know what they are doing, but if you already know then why read the wiki?

This is more along the lines of what I like
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml

FYI here is my effort for the NDH
http://linux-sunxi.org/YBKJ_A20
Apparently it's not good enough to be considered complete, but might be helpful for someone googling.

Also, On the device pages why is the PHY chip listed rather than the MAC? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Linux drivers and u-boot care about the MAC and only the board designer cares about the PHY. It seems a bit irrelevant?

Cheers,
Paul.

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 01:24:29PM +0000, Paul Jones wrote:
> Well, for starters I found it very annoying having to constantly jump
> between pages all the time. I kept getting lost and having to go back
> to the start again, then I somehow take a different path the next
> time. All the other bring up how-to guides I've used have been one
> page per section, or one page in total, but all steps are in
> chronological order: not just hyperlinks to mid way through some other
> random page. Perhaps it makes sense to the pros who know what they are
> doing, but if you already know then why read the wiki?

This is simply because we keep information in a single place, so that
changes only need to happen in a single place, and so that nothing
becomes outdated.

As for your YBKJ page, what is still needed is:
* a uboot patch or meminfo
* an explanation of how the clips are best released: do you need to push
the lid inwards, away from the edge of the lower cover?
* a nice picture of the uart
* a complete set of exterior pictures.

I just completed http://linux-sunxi.org/Mele_A210 which is a good
reference for this sort of device.

Luc Verhaegen.

[John S]

On Fri, 12/9/14, Paul Jones <pa...@pauljones.id.au> wrote:

> This is more along the lines of what I like http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml

It's not remotely a similar situation so I cannot see how the NDH could be like that.

However, I'm sure the aim is to improve the wiki including if appropriate the NDH so useful, practical suggestions will help.

John

[Stefan Monnier]

The "new device" template could be improved, tho:
- I'd expect many people filling such a page have no idea what "BSP" or
"HW-Pack" is.
- we could mention the most straightforward way to get the corresponding
info (with a link to the NDH in case this method fails to work).
- we should have a separate section for the data extracted from the
device (i.e. photos, fex file, meminfo, wifi chip in use, ...) and
clarify that this is the first thing to fill.


Stefan

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:00:29AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> The "new device" template could be improved, tho:

I am not sure which page you are talking about exactly here. The device
page example or the new device page or the new device howto?

> - I'd expect many people filling such a page have no idea what "BSP" or
> "HW-Pack" is.

The BSP/HW-Pack is not in use much, oliver is the only user i know.

> - we could mention the most straightforward way to get the corresponding
> info (with a link to the NDH in case this method fails to work).

Retrieving device information is not good enough?

> - we should have a separate section for the data extracted from the
> device (i.e. photos, fex file, meminfo, wifi chip in use, ...) and
> clarify that this is the first thing to fill.

What else is needed apart from the list you provided? UART, and a test
run?

Luc Verhaegen.

[Luc Verhaegen]

Also: http://linux-sunxi.org/Special:Contributions/Monnier

Please work through the new device howto yourself, and then comment on
it, or fix up the holes/issues directly. Not before.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Stefan Monnier]

>> The "new device" template could be improved, tho:
> I am not sure which page you are talking about exactly here. The device
> page example or the new device page or the new device howto?

As far as I know, only the "Device_Page_example" is a template, so yes,
I'm talking about the "Device_Page_example".

>> - I'd expect many people filling such a page have no idea what "BSP" or
>> "HW-Pack" is.
> The BSP/HW-Pack is not in use much, oliver is the only user i know.

Yet, it's right up there in the template. I.e. it's confusing and
off-putting, makes the potential new contributor wonder what the hell
we're talking about and how to find out (and the red helper text is of
no help in this respect).

>> - we could mention the most straightforward way to get the corresponding
>> info (with a link to the NDH in case this method fails to work).
> Retrieving device information is not good enough?

I'm talking about the red helper text in the template.

>> - we should have a separate section for the data extracted from the
>> device (i.e. photos, fex file, meminfo, wifi chip in use, ...) and
>> clarify that this is the first thing to fill.
> What else is needed apart from the list you provided? UART, and a test
> run?

I don't think there's a need for much more, indeed, but that's beside
the point:

If I imagine I'm a brand new contributor looking at
http://linux-sunxi.org/Device_Page_example and trying to fill it in, I'd
have no idea that this is the info I need to provide.


Stefan

> Please work through the new device howto yourself, and then comment on
> it, or fix up the holes/issues directly. Not before.

I just did it virtually, which is what prompted this previous message.
If you want me to do it for real, then send me a device that's not
already covered.
BTW, I think this qualifies as "ad-hominem".

[Paul Jones]

I think you're missing the point. It was the layout and the way the information is presented that is important.
Numerous people have given their opinion on what needs to change, but have encountered resistance from various people who simply justify the status quo, and fuss over minutia that apparently only they care about. And then add even more huge paragraphs of text to the NDH telling people to read the NDH, thus violating rule no. 1 of web design.
So my point is this: It is utterly irrelevant what the reasons are, if the NDH is not as simple, clear, and concise as it can possibly be, people will simply give up trying to fill it in correctly. Cause and effect. No amount of discussion and hand waving will change this.

Paul.

-----Original Message-----
From: linux...@googlegroups.com [mailto:linux...@googlegroups.com]

[John S]

On Sat, 13/9/14, Paul Jones <pa...@pauljones.id.au> wrote:

> I think you're missing the point. It was the layout and the way the information is presented that is important.

If you had said that I would have known that was what you meant, but you didn't.

> Numerous people have given their opinion on what needs to change

I have been reading the ML for a long time and that is not my experience. What happens regularly is that people just want an answer, don't put in any effort, don't provide anything approaching adequate data, maybe complain when they don't get their selfish answer and so on. (This is not necessarily a description of you. Jury is out I think.)

Seems to me the way to improve it is to suggest concrete improvements.

John

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 01:34:27AM +0000, Paul Jones wrote:
> I think you're missing the point. It was the layout and the way the information is presented that is important.
> Numerous people have given their opinion on what needs to change, but have encountered resistance from various people who simply justify the status quo, and fuss over minutia that apparently only they care about. And then add even more huge paragraphs of text to the NDH telling people to read the NDH, thus violating rule no. 1 of web design.
> So my point is this: It is utterly irrelevant what the reasons are, if the NDH is not as simple, clear, and concise as it can possibly be, people will simply give up trying to fill it in correctly. Cause and effect. No amount of discussion and hand waving will change this.
>
>
> Paul.

And you wiki account is?

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

Well I've just wasted many hours learning how to use git, learning about wiki formatting, and collating all the information I have so far, so that it's ready for putting on the wiki.

I then start adding info to the wiki, and my edits are immediately removed by Luc.

This is beyond ridiculous. I'm done here.

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 10:14:38AM -0700, Jason wrote:
> Well I've just wasted many hours learning how to use git, learning about
> wiki formatting, and collating all the information I have so far, so that
> it's ready for putting on the wiki.
>
> I then start adding info to the wiki, and my edits are immediately removed
> by Luc.

You threw meminfo and script.fex from afar straight into a wiki page.
These are two pieces of data which have no place on a wiki page.

> This is beyond ridiculous. I'm done here.

Suit yourself.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Simos Xenitellis]

I think this is a concise description of the problem we are seeing again and again at linux-sunxi.

Just the other week there was another person that attempted to add their device 

and simply gave up due to Luc being passive aggressive and obnoxious.

It is probably the case that he had to endure himself such a treatment when he was learning,

and now he is replicating it to others. It's toxic behavior, and that's not how a community works.

The deeper issue is that lack of empathy, the ability to feel/think how someone different is feeling/thinking.

Luc's actions do not represent the actions of the linux-sunxi community.

Simos

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 10:41:56PM +0300, Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> > I think this is a concise description of the problem we are seeing again
> and again at linux-sunxi.
> Just the other week there was another person that attempted to add their
> device
> and simply gave up due to Luc being passive aggressive and obnoxious.
>
> It is probably the case that he had to endure himself such a treatment when
> he was learning,
> and now he is replicating it to others. It's toxic behavior, and that's not
> how a community works.
>
> The deeper issue is that lack of empathy, the ability to feel/think how
> someone different is feeling/thinking.
>
> Luc's actions do not represent the actions of the linux-sunxi community.
>
> Simos

Why don't you stop trying to play nasty underhand politic games? Go do
something productive instead.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Tim Tisdall]

I can understand the frustration (somewhat), but posting the whole content of the fex file into a wiki page?  The page sample even links to the https://github.com/linux-sunxi/sunxi-boards/ in the "Manual Build" section kind of indicating what the accepted method of posting the fex is.  It's all a wiki too, so the content is still all there, just not in the most current version of the page.  Just put the info in the appropriate places and carry on!  :)

-Tim

[Jason]

Tim, I have already submitted both the fex file and a u-boot patch for inclusion in the sunxi repository. The problem is, the wiki clearly states that 'no sunxi-boards patches are accepted without a complete device page in place'. However, given Luc's mentality, I'm not at all confident that he will ever regard my device page as being 'complete'. Therefore, it's quite likely that my patches will never be included in the repository, and never be seen.

However, several people here have indicated (entirely reasonably) that they cannot help me until they see the contents of the stock fex file. So I figured I had two ways of dealing with this impasse - either attach the fex file to one of these threads, or add it to the device page as plain text. Neither choice is ideal. But on balance, I felt the latter was preferable because at least the information would then be available in one central place.

Incidentally, there are a few other things that I wanted to upload. For example a script I wrote to transfer the stock Android image to an SD card. But there's no obvious place to put stuff like that except the wiki.
 

[Luc Verhaegen]

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 01:58:15PM -0700, Jason wrote:
>
> Tim, I have already submitted both the fex file and a u-boot patch for
> inclusion in the sunxi repository. The problem is, the wiki clearly states
> that 'no sunxi-boards patches are accepted without a complete device page
> in place'. However, given Luc's mentality, I'm not at all confident that he
> will ever regard my device page as being 'complete'. Therefore, it's quite
> likely that my patches will never be included in the repository, and never
> be seen.

Have you tried actually adding any desirable content to that device
page? You could, you know, give that a try for a change, and see what
happens.

But i think i have told you that, in one form or another, many times
before.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Jason]

Simos, thanks for your words of support.

I can assure you that I don't judge this entire community by the behaviour of one individual. Several people here (including yourself) have made a genuine attempt to help me and for that I'm grateful.

What I'm irritated by is the constant insinuation by Luc and a few of his cheerleader friends that anyone who doesn't have their level of expertise, a fully setup development environment, and a huge amount of spare time to devote to this hobby are either lazy, stupid, unable to read, parasitic, etc.

But the real problem with this community isn't the gratuituous insults (which after all can be ignored), it's the fact that Luc appears to be the sole gatekeeper of both the Wiki and the Git repository. If he was the kind of person who sought to reach a consensus, and ran those resources in a democratic way for the benefit of everyone then that wouldn't matter. Unfortunately however, he uses (or perhaps more accurately abuses) those resources to promote his own agendas, and as a means to exert control over what he clearly sees as his own personal fiefdom.

I find it ironic that he accuses you of playing political games when he's so obviously a political animal himself.


 

[Stefan Monnier]

> figured I had two ways of dealing with this impasse - either attach the fex
> file to one of these threads, or add it to the device page as
> plain text.

Adding a link to the fex file would have been my choice.

Still, adding photos would be a good way to improve the device's page.

Also filling the right-hand-side table sounds like a good idea.
E.g. specifying the SoC, the amount of RAM, ...


Stefan

[Tim Tisdall]

Photos are sorely needed on your page...  People can identify some of your hardware by reading the info off the chips.

The fex and uboot changes are to go into the github repo.  You can do that by providing a patch in this mailing list.  Everyone has access to this mailing list.

Things like the script may be out of focus for the wiki...  I'm not sure about that.

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[Luc Verhaegen]

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 02:07:51PM -0700, Jason wrote:
>
> Simos, thanks for your words of support.
>
> I can assure you that I don't judge this entire community by the behaviour
> of one individual. Several people here (including yourself) have made a
> genuine attempt to help me and for that I'm grateful.
>
> What I'm irritated by is the constant insinuation by Luc and a few of his
> cheerleader friends that anyone who doesn't have their level of expertise,
> a fully setup development environment, and a huge amount of spare time to
> devote to this hobby are either lazy, stupid, unable to read, parasitic,
> etc.
>
> But the real problem with this community isn't the gratuituous insults
> (which after all can be ignored), it's the fact that Luc appears to be the
> sole gatekeeper of both the Wiki and the Git repository. If he was the kind
> of person who sought to reach a consensus, and ran those resources in a
> democratic way for the benefit of everyone then that wouldn't matter.
> Unfortunately however, he uses (or perhaps more accurately abuses) those
> resources to promote his own agendas, and as a means to exert control over
> what he clearly sees as his own personal fiefdom.
>
> I find it ironic that he accuses you of playing political games when he's
> so obviously a political animal himself.

Here's some politics for you, or rather, anti-politics, which is, given,
also a brand of politics.

Why don't you, Jason, get in touch with Simos directly, and then Simos
can help you fix all the problems you are having with your device. Then
everyone is happy.

Luc Verhaegen.

[Julian Calaby]

Hi Jason,

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Tim Tisdall <tis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Photos are sorely needed on your page... People can identify some of your
> hardware by reading the info off the chips.

Most of the basic info needed for the page can be grabbed without
doing anything overly technical. You can easily fill in ~2/3 of the
info box content and photos taken with your phone are good enough for
the external photos.

> The fex and uboot changes are to go into the github repo. You can do that
> by providing a patch in this mailing list. Everyone has access to this
> mailing list.

Definitely. We do have mailing list archives, they're not going to get
"lost" if you don't put them on the wiki.

> Things like the script may be out of focus for the wiki... I'm not sure
> about that.

It's about having one place for everything. Wiki for info and
instructions and "data" like the FEX file and memory info goes in the
git repositories.

It looks like you've done most of what's needed, there's just a few
extra bits required before it's done.

Thanks,

Julian Calaby

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[Artem Kuchin]

I also have this device - Jesurun A19 and too bad i don;t get to see the files Jason got from it. Also, i cannot run Cubieez  now because the link to the image is dead.

I wanted to use it for Klipper 3d printer firmware.

среда, 17 сентября 2014 г. в 03:37:43 UTC+4, Julian Calaby: