Abort, Retry, Fail?
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
Well, it's been hella quiet on the list lately, and seems like things
have gone dormant again. I've been thinking about LDC a bit lately and
wanted to give an update on what I'm doing and some suggestions for
the group. I've already talked briefly about this with Larry, Ken, and
Nate but wanted to see if we are all on the same page.
Basically - I think the idea was sound, but the fact is: we're all
amazingly busy and trying to bootstrap Yet Another Project may not be
the best idea.
Observations:
* We mainly seemed oriented around promoting Linux on the desktop.
Companies are already doing a good enough job of promoting Linux on
the server.
* We'd already agreed to primarily focus on GNOME for materials.
* GNOME also needs people.
Suggestion:
Given that we all have limited time and ability to devote to projects,
why not put our collective abilities to work to promote GNOME? While
that may not be exactly the same thing as promoting Linux, I think the
net result is the same, and we could do more good that way.
GNOME Marketing, Documentation and PR teams all need help. I'm working
on GNOME PR and hope to be doing some more work on documentation as
time allows. The same projects I'd planned to work on for LDC apply to
GNOME (Survey & Magazine).
It also happens that GNOME already has well-functioning methods of
raising money from vendors and there's no "threat" to promoting GNOME
for the major Linux vendors whereas generic Linux marketing means
giving money to promote their competitors. Perhaps that won't be seen
as an issue for promoting GNOME.
So -- that's the suggestion. If someone feels strongly they want to
try to make a go of LDC, I'm happy to turn over the domain and wish
best of luck. I will be turning off the VPS by end of April, so if
someone wants to step up -- do so quickly. ;-)
Happy to discuss further -- but I think that the idea was good,
there's some enthusiasm in the community, but really -- we could do
more good by joining and working with an existing project. Instead of
channeling through a specific distro, perhaps we could work with GNOME
to make it even more awesome.
* If it isn't obvious, I want to point out -- I also have much love
for KDE, XFce, etc. But for the same reasons we discussed last year --
GNOME is more or less the "industry standard," and ultimately, if
you're making marketing materials and whatnot you have to pick one. If
anyone here is a major KDE fan or whatever, then by all means - go
help KDE! They're awesome too! But their awesomeosity doesn't give me
more hours in a day to contribute equally to both...
Love and other indoor sports,
@jzb
--
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <j...@zonker.net>
About: http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
Scott Bicknell
> * We mainly seemed oriented around promoting Linux on the desktop.
> Companies are already doing a good enough job of promoting Linux on
> the server.
> * We'd already agreed to primarily focus on GNOME for materials.
> * GNOME also needs people.
>
> Suggestion:
>
> Given that we all have limited time and ability to devote to projects,
> why not put our collective abilities to work to promote GNOME? While
> that may not be exactly the same thing as promoting Linux, I think the
> net result is the same, and we could do more good that way.
People need to try GNOME if that is to be promoted. So this does not
avoid the "Which distro do we recommend?" issue. As soon as we take
marketing to that level, financial toes will be stepped on. Perhaps
that is why it hasn't been done before. The only way to avoid it is to
stop short of that level, unless we use something like Debian as the
showcase, or develop an independent distro for the sole purpose of
demonstrating GNOME. And then, who will throw money at it? What's in
it for distribution vendors when their's isn't being promoted?
We don't see advertising or promotional campaigns for GNOME or KDE
desktops in the media, and we never will unless the distributions
themselves work together to promote them. Their common interests might
both be served if they collectively promoted one desktop environment
or the other. But there are factors that separate dairy producers from
Linux distributors and keep Linux distributors from working together.
It was my understanding that one of the reasons for LDC was to
centralize marketing, because the various distributions and
development projects are too competitive to form a united front. And
without that united front, the marketing of the platform for the
desktop will never happen.
I think the questions that need to be addressed are:
1. Who's financial toes are we willing to step on?
2. Which development projects are we willing to snub?
I don't think we can promote desktop Linux at the level proposed in
LDC without doing both of those things. Because there is no Linux on
the desktop apart from a particular distribution and desktop
environment.
Looking back on it, LDC was probably doomed from the start, because it
ignored the unavoidable conflicts of interest inherent when
competitors operate in the same territory. Dairy producers operate in
segmented geographical markets, and so they can work together at
promoting their products without stepping on each other's toes. Linux
does not work that way.
The reality is that if Linux is to make significant headway on the
desktop, it will have to be marketed effectively by one particular
distributor. Right now, the only one doing that is Canonical. It is
useless to pretend that promoting desktop Linux can be effective apart
from promoting a particular distribution and desktop environment. So,
unless we are willing to do that, we are wasting our time and effort.
> we could do
> more good by joining and working with an existing project. Instead of
> channeling through a specific distro, perhaps we could work with GNOME
> to make it even more awesome.
This changes the goal, doesn't it? Making GNOME more awesome does
nothing to increase awareness of desktop Linux with the public. Are we
concluding that this is an unattainable goal? If so, I think we should
say so explicitly. That, or at least admit that we don't know how to
reach the goal. Or perhaps admit that we are unwilling to do what is
necessary to succeed. Perhaps picking one distribution and snubbing
other DE's is unpalatable?
> * If it isn't obvious, I want to point out -- I also have much love
> for KDE, XFce, etc. But for the same reasons we discussed last year --
> GNOME is more or less the "industry standard," and ultimately, if
> you're making marketing materials and whatnot you have to pick one. If
> anyone here is a major KDE fan or whatever, then by all means - go
> help KDE! They're awesome too! But their awesomeosity doesn't give me
> more hours in a day to contribute equally to both...
Perhaps the goal was ill-defined to begin with. What is "desktop
Linux"? It cannot be defined in terms of one distribution or desktop
environment. You can point at one example or another, and you have to
if you want to promote its use. But, it cannot be done while
maintaining an image of impartiality. And the unwillingness to appear
partial to one distribution and desktop environment not only prevented
the goal from being adequately defined, but also prevented any real
progress toward attaining it.
--
Scott Bicknell
Beth Lynn Eicher
I am interested in assisting with promoting Linux via the GNOME Foundation. It would give us a better sense of legitimacy and we would not have to spend time setting up overhead.
With that said, I still want to put together the following documentation:
1. What is Linux slidedeck: this will help LUGs and other computer user groups reach out to the community
2. What is Linux double-sided pamphlet: Nate, you wanted to do this, right?
3. A magazine-based "welcome to Linux" kit: I really think this is possible. If it is written, I am happy to help find funding.
As long as we can move forward with these three things, I could not care less what we call ourselves. Would we operate as a Friends of GNOME sig?
Thanks,
Beth Lynn Eicher
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
Nobody is stopping any of these things. :-)
As I mentioned in the earlier email (I think) the magazine idea is
still a go. But, really -- about 85% of the "welcome to Linux"
magazine would be "welcome to the desktop" content. At least as I see
it, because I'm not really trying to introduce very new users to CLI
tools, etc.
Best,
Zonker
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Linux Dairy Council" group.
> To post to this group, send email to linux-dai...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> linux-dairy-cou...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/linux-dairy-council?hl=en.
Xetheriel Angelknight
hadn't seen anything in a while.
Promoting Linux on the Desktop and promoting GNOME are almost one and
the same. In my opinion, if your goal is to be distro agnostic, then
your goal is to promote the desktop environment and Kernel. Thus,
promoting "Linux with GNOME" can still fit nicely with the LDC's
original purpose.
That said, I would be agreeable to working with Beth on the Magazine.
And of course, I will continue to support the guys doing all that
great work with the Linux charities in any way I can.
Thomas
Orv Beach
Orv
Bruce Wagner
Recently I started a company which promotes and installs Linux on the
desktop, trains the user, and offers unlimited tech support... all
for one small fee.
I think it's the best way I can promote Linux.... while helping users
adopt it.... and adapt to it... in their real-life situations.
Bruce
BredTech Computer | http://bredtech.com | 646-719-9000
Twitter | http://twitter.com/brucewagner
Facebook | http://facebook.com/brucelwagner
Buzz | http://www.google.com/profiles/besttocall#buzz
Beth Lynn Eicher
how much longer will you have the vps account? It would be interesting to have a website/blog that only features stories on where Linux is winning on the desktop. A planet could work for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_(software)
What do you folks think?
Thanks,
Beth Lynn Eicher
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
<bethlyn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> how much longer will you have the vps account? It would be interesting to
> have a website/blog that only features stories on where Linux is winning on
> the desktop. A planet could work for this
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_(software)
It's up through end of April, I think...
Keeping with the theme of not duplicating effort - there are lots of
Linux-focused publications. It might be better to offer help to one of
the not-for-profit sites than to try to reinvent the wheel and do yet
another new site.
Best,
Zonker
GNUguy
wrote:
>
> Keeping with the theme of not duplicating effort - there are lots of
> Linux-focused publications. It might be better to offer help to one of
> the not-for-profit sites than to try to reinvent the wheel and do yet
> another new site.
>
> Best,
>
> Zonker
> --
> Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier <j...@zonker.net>
> About:http://www.dissociatedpress.net/about/
That certainly makes sense.
Ralph Janke
several vps if this helps.
It would be no problem to run a planet there if that is necessary.
Ralph (txwikinger)
On April 14, 2010 09:49:06 pm Beth Lynn Eicher wrote:
> Zonker,
>
> how much longer will you have the vps account? It would be interesting to
> have a website/blog that only features stories on where Linux is winning on
> the desktop. A planet could work for this
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_(software)
>
txwikinger
I mean
look at it. If it would be so important people would not stick with
Windows.
I think the real important thing are applications. Microsoft won the
monopoly
in the OS market because they could offer the applications that the
users
needed with it. You win the OS market by having the right
applications.
The whole desktop issue is more for the enthusiasts, and we already
see this
with the fact that there are lots of choices in Linux.
Therefore, I think we should analyze which applications are the killer
applications
for users.. (Office, Photoshop?, Video Editor? ... etc), and then
promote the
appropriate applications on Linux for that.
Just my 2 cents,
Ralph (txwikinger)
On Apr 11, 10:35 am, "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier" <xon...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Xetheriel Angelknight
Office -> OpenOffice.org
Photoshop -> Gimp!
Video Editor -> Lightworks is to be open sourced very soon!
There are many other OSS packages that are as good or better than
their proprietary closed source cousins.
What Linux needs is publicity, and lots of it. Many of the people I
have switched had never even heard of Linux, they didn't know there
was a choice.
As far as the web site goes, if the issue is simply the cost of
hosting, pass it over here and I'll host it on my server. Its free,
and theres plenty of space. I have a static IP, so we can just direct
the domain to my server.
Thomas
Ed Liddle
One angle of promotion is through education. Most public places (libraries, community centers, etc) that offer free computer classes/training focus on windows and microsoft office. Classes about basic computer usage, internet/email use are focused around windows. Some places feel its a microsoft world and that people are better prepared learning microsoft's OS and office apps. Some places that teach these do not want to learn or come up with course material to teach something else or have anyone that is interested in doing that.
If there could be a repository of material that could be utilized for making people aware of linux and teaching basic computer skills on a linux desktop environment, I think that would help people willing to promote it.
Target audiences could be home users, students, and small businesses.
If a public venue has access to computers that someone could use to teach a computerclass, they could run linux using a live cd that attendees could take home with them, or possibly pxe boot them for use with a ltsp server.
On Apr 14, 2010 11:38 PM, "Xetheriel Angelknight" <xeth...@dragon-wing.net> wrote:
As far as applications go?
Office -> OpenOffice.org
Photoshop -> Gimp!
Video Editor -> Lightworks is to be open sourced very soon!
There are many other OSS packages that are as good or better than
their proprietary closed source cousins.
What Linux needs is publicity, and lots of it. Many of the people I
have switched had never even heard of Linux, they didn't know there
was a choice.
As far as the web site goes, if the issue is simply the cost of
hosting, pass it over here and I'll host it on my server. Its free,
and theres plenty of space. I have a static IP, so we can just direct
the domain to my server.
Thomas
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:25 PM, txwikinger <txwik...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am not sure if a des...
GNUguy
Here's a link that might be of interest.
http://www.tuxradar.com/content/how-get-linux-your-office
And here's one more...
http://www.stuartsheldon.org/blog/
Look for his three-part blog re his effort to convert a customer over
to FLOSS entitled "A Microsoft Free Workplace in Six Months."
On Apr 14, 10:35 pm, Xetheriel Angelknight <xether...@dragon-wing.net>
wrote:
> As far as applications go?
>
> Office -> OpenOffice.org
> Photoshop -> Gimp!
> Video Editor -> Lightworks is to be open sourced very soon!
>
> There are many other OSS packages that are as good or better than
> their proprietary closed source cousins.
>
> What Linux needs is publicity, and lots of it. Many of the people I
> have switched had never even heard of Linux, they didn't know there
> was a choice.
>
> As far as the web site goes, if the issue is simply the cost of
> hosting, pass it over here and I'll host it on my server. Its free,
> and theres plenty of space. I have a static IP, so we can just direct
> the domain to my server.
>
> Thomas
>
GNUguy
...and with that last bit of info, I'm going to withdraw from this
group.
This has been interesting. I appreciate the patience that everyone
showed me re my utter lack of IRC skills. But I don't see myself
contributing much to this effort.
I have NO knowledge of the various affiliations, associations, or
power bases within the community. I don't have the cash flow to fly to
conventions and I don't have nearly the technical knowledge that most
of you have. So I feel like I'm taking up space here.
Good luck and much success with your endeavors folks.
Adios.
Bruce Wagner
desktop" build"... then creating a business to sell the installation,
training, and support services for a small nominal fee.
The first step is to create this "ultimate Ubuntu desktop build". The
idea is really pretty simple. I want every system to be identical
(for smooth support). I want the standard build to include every
"best of breed" application -- for nearly every possible thing a user
could want to do. This includes home user, small business, media
center, educational use, audio / video / graphics production, and many
other special purpose applications. The target audience is
non-technical users with no experience with Linux at all.
Of course, the finished system build must also be rock-solid,
reliable, and able to install and run well on almost any standard
hardware.
I'd love you (each of you) to be a mentor in this process. In order
to have the best possible result, we need input from many minds. If
you'd be willing to consult briefly (over the phone or skype is
probably best) please let me know.
Cheers,
Bruce
Mackenzie Morgan
On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Orv Beach <orv....@gmail.com> wrote:
> And I'll continue to promote KDE on the desktop ;-)
Mackenzie Morgan
http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com
apt-get moo