Linrad - MAP65 communication
Rein w6sz
Finally gotten to the point that I would like
to run MAP65 with a SDR I-Q or a Softrock.
Not been very successful so far.
Need some serious help please.
Let me start with the computers.
1 XP machine and a laptop with XP.
Both computers have network cards and
run on a WiFi router for the internet.remote
in the house
Network do cards communicate.
Linrad versions run with DELTA44 or SDR I-Q
Assuming that MAP65 will work with Linrad without
compiling. Perhaps that is not so?
Also that the communication part would be very
basic ( see the the lights run on the network cards )
Or perhaps some indication "data transferring"
or so. This is possibly present ,but it does not
show here, except the red "no rx data"
The could be a difference between data streaming
and "rx data present".
Matters of format
I have been told that downloading the programs
from the web sites, installing them, do it.
Such as just linrad and WSJT.
On this reflector, I see notes and message about
IP's , par_netsend_ip, par_netsend_ip files,
par_netrec_ip.
Not even 100 % sure that I have these names correct!
I must be missing an important part here or overlooking
an important section of the installation?
Have Linrad3.06 on one computer and MAP65 on the
laptop.
Have done the "N" and "8" selections. And Delta44
selected, That part is all working as, is MAP65
on the other computer, Can go into transmit etc
MAP65 shows the green Receiving label as soon as
I start MAP65, and the
Red "No Rx data"....
With Linrad T activated and NETSEND on, linrad
running and receiving in SSB mode.
It's quite clear that the 2 computers are not working
together.There is also no activity visible on the network
card led's. In Dos I can PING the computers both ways.
It looks that linrad in the send mode is not able to
communicate with the other computer most likely
due to lack of the correct IP
From the reflector I have deciphered that the IP's need
to be processed or put in a file.
It is frustrating to me that with some 250 network
messages one way or another on this reflector.
( Google MAP65 network ) and that that I can't
figure this all out myself,
But that is what it is
In the linrad directory is a file par_network,
created when I did "N" or perhaps "R".
That is all I see network related.
I have also gotten the impression that
linrad needs certain adjustments etc.
or setting, also that it should work as
it is downloaded.
In the hope to get some help,
73 Rein W6SZ
On the master computer, I put the IP address of the destination
computer (slave) in the par_netsend_ip => this is correct
On the slave computer, I put the IP address of the master computer in
the par_netrec_ip => this was not correct !!! the par_netrec_ip must
include the IP of the slave computer itself.
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Should I use 3.05 and not 3.06 with MAP65?
I just learned that 3.05 comes with the ip address
related parameter file included?
Could this be the missing link?
73 Rein W6SZ
Rein w6sz
I believe my main question is now the following one:
{
I found the most recent email message and was able
to go back in time and saw questions / problems on the
above subject ( Google linrad reflector )
}
Using Linrad3.06 and MAP65 as downloaded from
the 2 WEB sites and a Delta44 sound card
How do I inform Linrad about the required IP address
of the MAP65 computer?
It appears to me the IP address needs to be added
somewhere in the par files.
2 Computer system, both windows XP connected
via cross over cable.
73 Rein W6SZ
Thomas D. Dean
To set the IP,
>echo "192.168.2.14" > par_netsend_ip
>echo "192.168.2.15" > par_netrec_ip
and in xlinrad,
T
2
-1
to read the par_netsend_ip file, etc.
tomdean
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Hello Tom,
Thanks much. Excuse me for my ignorance perhaps.
You are exactly answering my question but I have Windows
machines and your solution I think, applies to Linux or not?
But perhaps you know how or where to set the
par_netsend_ip
par_netrec_ip
parameters manually . I can't find them in the parameter files.
What I am really asking, I think, are these IP addresses hard programmed
in linrad and MAP65?
Or perhaps should these IP addresses been added in a file. I am
totally at a loss here.
73 Rein W6SZ
-----Original Message-----
Thomas D. Dean
> But perhaps you know how or where to set the
>
> par_netsend_ip
> par_netrec_ip
In the directory where the linrad par_* files are located, create two
ner files,
par_netsend_ip containing the address linrad is to transmit to.
par_netrec_ip containing the address linrad is to receive from.
I do not use Map65,
The port number linrad uses as well as the port number Map65 uses must
be the same.
tomdean
Leif Asbrink
> But perhaps you know how or where to set the
>
> par_netsend_ip
> par_netrec_ip
>
> parameters manually . I can't find them in the parameter files.
> What I am really asking, I think, are these IP addresses hard programmed
> in linrad and MAP65?
>
> Or perhaps should these IP addresses been added in a file. I am
> totally at a loss here.
It seems I have not written the functions of "N=Network setup" verbose
enough. There is "2: SEND address = ........." as one alternative in settings.
When you press '2' the message becomes:
"..... Set new SEND address -1 to read from file par_netsend_ip"
Please suggest a "one-liner" that would help others to not become confused
at this point. You are supposed to arrive at this point, set -1 and not get
the desired result. (Could not read file par_netsend_ip)
You arre assumed to react by making an exit from Linrad and create a text file
par_netsend_ip (or possibly par_netsend_ip.txt) containing an ip address in
text format. Next time you would see the contents of that file.
There is no difference between Linux and Windows, but (silently) allowing
also for the .txt extension is done to make life easier for Windows users
who may run without visible file extensions.
73
Leif
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Again, thanks.
Unfortunately I do not understand perhaps a number
of trivial point(s), actually thats for sure!
There is a file connected with the network (communication)
"par_network"
form of parameters "name" {n}
send group [0]
receive group [0]
port [50000]
send_raw [0]
send_fft1 [0]
send_fft2 [0]
send_timf2 [16]
receive_raw [0]
receive_fft1 [0]
ip1 [2220222]
ip2 [0]
ip3 [0]
ip4 [0]
check [0]
Change only between brackets.
If file has errors, Linrad will ignore file and prompt
for a complete set of new parameters
Should I just put in the IP's in this file?
Or, one IP address in Linrad and another in MAP65?
Should there not be some indication what this number is or
represents?
Or should I create 2 new files with as only content
the IP's.
Should these files be both in the linrad directory?
or again on in Linrad and one in MAP65?
I am sure they are very trivial matters but I clearly do not
quite understand what I am doing.
My idea is that Linrad needs to know where to send the data
and probably MAPs want to confirm receipt of some kind in its
basic form back to linrad.
I see data flowing over the network card form the linrad amchine
to the MAP machine and if I remove the cross over cable I see
the out flow over the Wireless adapter
NAP65 however sits there. Both programs provide little info
in terms of feedback.
I have full control from one computer to the other via the
router as well as via the network cards ( shared to
shared, both ways )
BTW thanks for not given up on me!
Regards Rein
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Thomas D. Dean" <tom...@speakeasy.org>
>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 1:35 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>
>
>>
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Thanks so MUCH for getting on line and your hands on
my problem,
I like to propose the following:
Will clean up the drives on the 2 computers.
Then I am going to install Linrad 3.06 with the delta44
and I state what I do next and why, you watch it step by step,
and you check what I have done. And I report what happens
etc etc
I will try to record it and you and I write the instructions
to get Linrad and MAP65 to work.
You check the final product. You carry the document on your
web page as the installation manual for the Linrad/Map65 system
During the last 3 days I have been trying to get this solved
and have been emailing with a number of helpful amateurs.
Selected and contacted from the linrad reflector with
their questions or difficulties. I details do not matter
here really.
Most of these amateurs had a system working but none had the
same as I have here. And it seems we all have different idea's
of what is required, why and how.
So I think it should be worthwhile to write a document that
can be followed by old as well as new users of the Linrad/MAP65
combination.
There is also always the issue of "reading the manual" As we
all know most of us do not want to do that , nor do we really
want to study it.
what we had at work and I know it is common in the industry
is an introduction what the target is, diffinitions of the
expressions, functions, how the different pieces fit together,
finally how to get there and how to check the final result.
Just to name a few.
Also if one leaves it sort of open, different minds often approach
or interpret text in quite different ways.
I like to give an example.
You talk about setting the addresses in the setup menu.
It is the most logical thing to do, in my inquires with others
I asked in several ways how and where to do it. The limit
is that I never had the foresight to go there nor did any
of the the people that I contacted. Looking back now I certainly
feel stupid but I was not the only person not being aware of this
it seems from here at least.
So I hope you help me and the future users with this. This is
not to put Roger, W3SZ out of business. He has dome in my
opinion at least a fantastic job to promote Linrad, its
use amd howto. And Roger is very welcome to do this with.
To end this, one might say why go through all of this?
it is all simple!
Well, I think Linrad and MAP65 deserve to be used by many.
Also such a write up could be useful to all those who will
have black radio boxes that need to be interfaced to computer
via TCP/IP
( Returning later )
73 Rein W6SZ,
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <le...@sm5bsz.com>
>Sent: Jul 16, 2009 4:04 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>
>
>> But perhaps you know how or where to set the
>>
Thomas D. Dean
Create two new files with notepad, named par_netsend_ip and
par_netrec_ip, each containing the respective ip address.
in the directory where the par_* files are located, created the two
files named as above. Then, open the par_netsend_ip file with notepad.
Enter the desired ip address, for example, my file contains 192.168.2.14
because that is what my network has.
Do the same with the other file.
Leif Asbrink
> I like to propose the following:
>
> Will clean up the drives on the 2 computers.
>
> Then I am going to install Linrad 3.06 with the delta44
> and I state what I do next and why, you watch it step by step,
> and you check what I have done. And I report what happens
> etc etc
>
> I will try to record it and you and I write the instructions
> to get Linrad and MAP65 to work.
This will be very good. Please describe excactly what you do -
and in particular WHY - but only a couple of steps each time.
The reason is that i do not as much want to tell you what to do
as I want to change whatever information that might lead in
wrong directions or perhaps not lead to anything at all.
> You check the final product. You carry the document on your
> web page as the installation manual for the Linrad/Map65 system
By breaking it down into smaller steps it will be easier to change
at the source from where you got your information or to change
the Linrad setup dialogue.
> During the last 3 days I have been trying to get this solved
> and have been emailing with a number of helpful amateurs.
> Selected and contacted from the linrad reflector with
> their questions or difficulties. I details do not matter
> here really.
>
> Most of these amateurs had a system working but none had the
> same as I have here. And it seems we all have different idea's
> of what is required, why and how.
To some extent that is intentional. Different things are required
at different locations. Now, to receive JT65 via MAP65 is a pretty
well defined task so differences should be small.
> So I think it should be worthwhile to write a document that
> can be followed by old as well as new users of the Linrad/MAP65
> combination.
In the first place I want to do whatever changes needed to the general
information to remove some of the problems you have encountered.
Then, if necessary, it would be adequate to write something about the
Linrad/MAP65 combination.
> There is also always the issue of "reading the manual" As we
> all know most of us do not want to do that , nor do we really
> want to study it.
Absolutely.
> what we had at work and I know it is common in the industry
> is an introduction what the target is, diffinitions of the
> expressions, functions, how the different pieces fit together,
> finally how to get there and how to check the final result.
> Just to name a few.
>
> Also if one leaves it sort of open, different minds often approach
> or interpret text in quite different ways.
Yes. I have repeatedly asked for feedback from people who find
problems with getting Linrad running. On this list, on the Perseus
list and at other places. I have asked for questions posted to this
list but as you may have seen the response is very close to zero.
Linrad is designed for experimenters. It gives opportunities to do
many things that would be stupid nearly always but that could be
extremely helpful in special situations. To some extent it is fine
that different people go different ways according to their preferences.
This would be particularly valuable if there was some more sharing
of information. Linrad allows recording of the raw data excactly
as they arrive from the antenna into a .raw file. The raw file
contains the calibration data (if any) and allows repeated processing
with different parameters so one can decide if something is better
than something else. For MAP65 the things that might be of interest
are noise blankers, spur removal and visibility in the Linrad
waterfall. Since the network data is 16 bit only the level of
the signal might also be a factor. It is possible to set it too
high or too low.
> I like to give an example.
>
> You talk about setting the addresses in the setup menu.
> It is the most logical thing to do, in my inquires with others
> I asked in several ways how and where to do it. The limit
> is that I never had the foresight to go there nor did any
> of the the people that I contacted. Looking back now I certainly
> feel stupid but I was not the only person not being aware of this
> it seems from here at least.
This is kind of interesting. Do you have any suggestion about how
to improve on this point?
The user is supposed to press 'N', 'R' or 'T' if he wants to
use the network. If the network is not set up (there is no
file par_network) all three keys lead to the 'N' menu.
(Which I perhaps should make more verbose.)
73
Leif
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Fully agree with what you stated here.
On the feedback part.
One needs to be very inviting and patient I think.
Re this:
>>I like to give an example.
>>
>> You talk about setting the addresses in the setup menu.
>> It is the most logical thing to do, in my inquires with others
>> I asked in several ways how and where to do it. The limit
>> is that I never had the foresight to go there nor did any
>> of the the people that I contacted. Looking back now I certainly
>> feel stupid but I was not the only person not being aware of this
>> it seems from here at least.
>This is kind of interesting. Do you have any suggestion about how
>to improve on this point?
>
>The user is supposed to press 'N', 'R' or 'T' if he wants to
>use the network. If the network is not set up (there is no
>file par_network) all three keys lead to the 'N' menu.
>(Which I perhaps should make more verbose.)
>
ago and then I did not get anywhere, Thought "lets wait, there will be questions
and answers and you will understand howto it by then".
The feed back part!
Then thought that the system wanted to work perhaps with the 239,555.0.0 I think it
is. the 239 address hard programmed into Linrad )
So I thought, if I set manually the IP of the network card to that address
it might perhaps work!
Then I found for whatever reason I can not set the first block to 239,
( 239 invalid should be < 223 )
I guess I stppped at that time
So that was some of the process here.
I have been programmed today to ask when it comes to communicating
with instruments, programs and the like, the IP addresses?
In short, my approach to computer problems is not
necessary menu clicking. I don't dare to go into unknown
area's when it comes to computers. ( dare is perhaps too strong )
A generational thing I believe!
"Don't turn knobs , move handles if you do not know what will happen"
I know from work experience many others and particular younger people
act completely different.
I suggest to add to the basic Linrad package 2 files, empty or with
neutral text.
par_netsend_ip
par_netrec_ip
The user is suggested to modify these files during network setup.
I tried to find and was asking for something along those lines earlier.
Besides that to write ( we can do that ) a general piece about network
issues in relation to LINRAD and MAP65 and perhaps about connecting
computers to programs, instruments, black boxes.
Leif I believe you have a tendency to inform after one pushes. This means
that if one does not push, one never learns or gets informed.
You also put the help files after the pushing, again what can I say,
remember it!
This is nothing critical and perhaps it is not even quite true but
I have that impression. Also this is only in relation to the linrad
program
I like to know the way before I push. It all comes down how one approaches
to solve a problem or answer a question.
BTW I have a whole bunch of questions about this part the "R". "T" , "W" as well
as "0" ) zero . But we can go over this later.
I like to suggest we start a new section with questions and answers
and that some one, you , I or who ever want to do this compiles a
file of the questions , answers and solutions, from the reflector
content, with all the reflector house keeping removed. As this
file grows it will be posted on the web,
For me at least, it is very difficult and time consuming to extract the
relevant info and details from the Google type of protocol.
For this job I don't want to push myself but I can do it and post it.
That is if no volunteers come forward.
Pse your and others comments before we go.
73 Rein W6SZ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <le...@sm5bsz.com>
>Sent: Jul 17, 2009 6:25 AM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>
>
Leif Asbrink
> On the feedback part.
> One needs to be very inviting and patient I think.
Yes, I have done my best. (But English is not my native
language.)
Ok.
There is a need for a text about networking in general. I do not
know enough to write it myself.
By the way, the source code package contains text files that
may contain relevant information:
z_ALSA.txt
z_APM.txt
z_BUFFERS.txt
z_CALIBRATE.txt
z_COPYRIGHT.txt
z_GIFINFO.txt
z_MORSE_DECODING.txt
z_MOUSE.txt
z_NETWORK.txt
z_PARALLEL_PORT.txt
z_SETTINGS.txt
z_USERS_EXTRA.txt
z_USERS_HWARE.txt
> I have been programmed today to ask when it comes to communicating
> with instruments, programs and the like, the IP addresses?
That is because you normally want an error free link between
two (and two only) computers.
> In short, my approach to computer problems is not
> necessary menu clicking. I don't dare to go into unknown
> area's when it comes to computers. ( dare is perhaps too strong )
> A generational thing I believe!
>
> "Don't turn knobs , move handles if you do not know what will happen"
Oooh! You are an old man.....
Look at the young ones. They turn and click wildly and expect to
be guided by feedback from the computer:-)
> I know from work experience many others and particular younger people
> act completely different.
Yes:-)
> I suggest to add to the basic Linrad package 2 files, empty or with
> neutral text.
>
> par_netsend_ip
> par_netrec_ip
>
> The user is suggested to modify these files during network setup.
This is doable. I could put the address that MAP65 wants if someone
will remind me what it is.
The default would still be the same, but by typing -1 instead of
something in the range 0 to 15 the address would be fetched from
the file.
> I tried to find and was asking for something along those lines earlier.
>
> Besides that to write ( we can do that ) a general piece about network
> issues in relation to LINRAD and MAP65 and perhaps about connecting
> computers to programs, instruments, black boxes.
Yes. That would be very good. Something about networks in general. With
a focus on local networks and some information about how packets
pass through switches. I think the default address of Linrad would
propagate to every computer on a local network through all switches
while packages on the MAP65 addres would only reach those parts
of a network that are needed th transfer data between the desired
computers. I really do not know, but I hope someone else will
be able to write something about this.
> Leif I believe you have a tendency to inform after one pushes. This means
> that if one does not push, one never learns or gets informed.
Well, I have written quite a lot of text that it seems nobody is reading.
By writing more about the wrong things I would only hide the important
information in "noise" There is a limit in how much people can read
without loosing interest.
> You also put the help files after the pushing, again what can I say,
> remember it!
That is true. Someone suggested this brilliant idea to me. I actually
never hit my mind before.
> This is nothing critical and perhaps it is not even quite true but
> I have that impression. Also this is only in relation to the linrad
> program
Well, it is certainly true - and I do need the pushes to be able to
understand what is creating problems.
> I like to know the way before I push.
But why? I try to create an interest in using Linrad for various
purposes. It is really easy to download and unzip the 3 files needed
for Windows. Unfortunately there is no installer with a beautiful
icon to place on the desktop, but that is because I have no idea how
to create such a thing.
I have had a feedback from someone who was not able to unpack
the zip file and type linrad in the command window and he would
have been helped by an installer. Maybe someone can help?
> It all comes down how one approaches
> to solve a problem or answer a question.
>
> BTW I have a whole bunch of questions about this part
> the "R". "T" , "W" as well as "0" ) zero. But we can go
> over this later.
OK.
> I like to suggest we start a new section with questions and answers
> and that some one, you , I or who ever want to do this compiles a
> file of the questions , answers and solutions, from the reflector
> content, with all the reflector house keeping removed. As this
> file grows it will be posted on the web,
This would be excellent. Meanwhile I will make changes whenever
appropriate to make Linrad behave in a way that makes as much as
possible of the information needless. (But it would have to
remain correct.)
> For me at least, it is very difficult and time consuming to extract the
> relevant info and details from the Google type of protocol.
Absolutely. The idea is that you should find all the information
in Linrad itself after having read the newcomers page:
http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/newco/newcomer.htm
By selecting 'N' as the first keypress when starting Linrad for
the first time you will start in "newcomer mode." This way it
should be rather easy for a newcomer to get a working system
because many parameters will silently be set to default values.
> For this job I don't want to push myself but I can do it and post it.
> That is if no volunteers come forward.
OK. Please start with a first question by describing shortly at what
point something is unclear. (And how you got to that point.)
Perhaps we can arrive at some modification I can do in Linrad or
in the Linrad for newcomers page that would solve the issue.
In some cases that would not be possible because your questions
may be related to a particular hardware (or to MAP65) and then
there might be a need for an answer in your particular situation.
If someone could write a text that would fit on a single screen
I could add it in the help file so one coulöd press F1 to read it
during the network setup. Together with default files for
par_netsend_ip and par_netrec_ip it seems to me that the problems
you have encountered with network setup should be solved.
73
Leif
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Have been away a couple of days without the radio
stuff. Hope to pick up the conversation later.
I don't believe it is language matter. It is more
I think, like in a school class, a world wide school
class. Also if there were a good recording mechanism
where questions and answers would be stored in such a way
that one could go and read first ( I know most of us fail
in that activity ) before asking repeat questions over and over.
The last, being hard on the designer/teacher.
73 Rein W6SZ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <le...@sm5bsz.com>
>Sent: Jul 20, 2009 7:25 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>
>
Joe Taylor
I have been away for the past ten days, just now getting
caught up on email. It seems that you have had some trouble
getting Linrad and MAP65(-IQ) running together?
Probably I have not yet absorbed everything in the recent
series of emails on this topic, but I as I understand it you
want to run Linrad together with MAP65, using either the
SDR-IQ or a SoftRock for input.
There is no version of MAP65 designed specifically for a
general-purpose, single-channel direct-conversion I/Q
receiver like the SoftRock. Although I do not particularly
recommend it, it's possible to use a SoftRock with the
standard MAP65 program. To do this you must use 96 kHz
sample rate and tell Linrad that you have a dual-RF-channel
(four audio channel) system. MAP65 will then work, but of
course it cannot provide its very important
polarization-matching capability.
A much better solution would be to use MAP65-IQ and the
SDR-IQ receiving hardware. On April 10 I posted to this
reflector a link to a click-to-install version of MAP65-IQ,
specifically built for the SDR-IQ receiver:
http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/MAP65-IQ_r1116.EXE
Downloading and executing this file will install everything
you need to run Linrad 3.05b and MAP65-IQ v0.9, r1116, on a
single computer. There is no need to configure any
network-related or other files. A full set of Linrad
configuration files is included, set up for optimum
performance with MAP65-IQ. Both programs run comfortably on
a single computer with 1 GB (or even 512 MB) of memory and
1.5 GHz or faster CPU.
Start-up icons for both Linrad and MAP65-IQ will appear on
your Windows desktop at the end of installation. As far as
I have been able to tell, the combination runs "out of the
box". If for you it does not, please tell us about your
problems!
Additional comment, especially to Leif:
Making a click-to-install distribution file for Windows is
very simple. (Like many things, simple once you have
learned how. :-)) I recommend using the superb (and free)
program called "Inno Setup", available at
http://www.innosetup.com/isinfo.php
To use it you must create a simple file that names all files
to be included in the distribution, and tells where to find
them and where to put them on the target machine. An
example of the setup file for the MAP65-IQ distribution is
attached.
-- 73, Joe, K1JT
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Very happy to report that MAP65I-Q is now running here and
well on single laptop!( Thinkpad T42 )
Thinkpad has 1.7 P4 processor and 512 Mb memory.
The SDR I-Q is on loan from Doug, K6JEY and we would like to run MAP65
this weekend. This is the reason for the "urgency" to get answers.
I tried it with one computer out of desperation after many efforts to
get it to go here with 2 computers!
Terry, KJ7F has been very helpful in the end with real good hints
info and directions.
Leif and some others will try to write a document on how to do the
2 computer setup.
Core problem was, I did not know how to tell Linrad the IP address
needed to drive the network card to talk from de Linrad computer
to the MAP65 computer. Of course once you know it it is easy....
the par_netsend_ip file creation.
Now even with the par_netsend_ip added in the linrad directory,
I was using ver 3.06 all the time, it is still not working.
Is it perhaps, that one needs to SHARE the hard drives on the local
network?
With 2 network cards plus the Ip's set I can transfer files, etc
from the shared parts of the hard drives of the 2 computers.
Linrad refuses though to transfer data or MAP65 does not see or
gets them. ( Linrad in Netsend )
With the laptop:
The files used per MAP65-IQ from K1JT website, ( par_netsend_ip
is included in this file set , ip address = 127.1.1.0, loop IP )
I am monitoring some Beacons on 28 MHz at the moment.
SDR I-Q box running via USD 2.0 on laptop
Mode SSB
CPU load = abt 31 % reported by Lnrad
Windows task manager ( CTRL ALt Del ) reports:
abt 10 % CPU use for MAP65
abt 300 MB Memory use for MAP65
abt 37% CPU for Linrad ( SSB mode at abt 90 Khz sampling rate
Abt 25 MB Memory use for Linrad.
I assume when actually wsjt65B signals are t be decoded,
the MAP65 load will increase.
Changing over to MAP65 and loading the practice file, it appears
that the program starts to work really 10's of seconds after
the test file load started.
Bottom lime is that from here it certainly appears that SDR65 I-Q installs and
is working in no time. It is ready to go!
Softrock vs SDR I_Q.
Doug and I have done in the past some comparison measurements for the SDR box
versus one of my softocks. Softrock is runnung with Si570 LO, and has
a pre-selector. We found the sensitivity on 28 Mhz of the softrock approx
10 dB better then the SDR I-Q.
Softrock with a un modified delta44 sound card ( the same numbers with
Linrad in SSB mode, Winrad and SpectraVue.
I use a little prtable softrock SDR here with the laptop and have to use
an external soundcard for the I/Q processing ( USB sound card )
Of course, SDR IQ receives 0-30 MHz in one sweep, Sofrock is narrow band,
and would need a lot extra to have it cover 30 MHz of as one spectrum.
73 Rein, W6SZ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe Taylor <j...@Princeton.EDU>
>Sent: Jul 21, 2009 2:29 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad - MAP65 communication
>
Rein w6sz
After having been running in the monitoring / decode
mode for hours without problems, I wanted to try
the send mode in MAP65.
There is a problem here. As soon as the send cycle in MAP65
starts, Linrad stops. This might be correct or not , though I think
it is not.
When the 48 seconds send period has past, Linrad does not
not come back to life. As a matter of fact it is not responding to the
"X" key strokes any longer,
"Netsend" is still on in this state,
It worked one time perhaps out of 15 tries. At that time, one could
hear linrad's video at the same time as the WSJT tones for the
modulation. The only sound card is used by Linrad and by MAP65
to output modulation tones.
I then disabled ths sound card in Linrad.It did not make any
difference.
A message on linrad where the CPU load number is visible, appears
"No input" and t 1335 where it seems the 1335 keeps on incrementing.
MAP65 shows the red No rx data.
Any idea's?
73 Rein W6SZ
Edward Cole
>---snip-----
>Softrock vs SDR I_Q.
>
>Doug and I have done in the past some comparison measurements for the SDR box
>versus one of my softocks. Softrock is runnung with Si570 LO, and has
>a pre-selector. We found the sensitivity on 28 Mhz of the softrock approx
>10 dB better then the SDR I-Q.
>Softrock with a un modified delta44 sound card ( the same numbers with
>Linrad in SSB mode, Winrad and SpectraVue.
>
>I use a little prtable softrock SDR here with the laptop and have to use
>an external soundcard for the I/Q processing ( USB sound card )
>
>Of course, SDR IQ receives 0-30 MHz in one sweep, Sofrock is narrow band,
>and would need a lot extra to have it cover 30 MHz of as one spectrum.
>
>
>73 Rein, W6SZ
Rein,
I found that the SDR-IQ needs a little more gain. I added 18-dB gain
in front of my SDR-IQ running at 28-MHz and improved my sensitivity
16-dB (tested by comparing with spectra-JT traces from JT-65B running
from a soundcard (my measurements were at most +/- 2 dB accuracy). I
used a signal generator with 66-dB attenuation added to get down to
-166 dBm (this was with a 1-dBNF preamp) feeding both receivers. Try
a little IF gain on 28-MHz.
***********************************************************
73, Ed - KL7UW BP40iq, 6m - 3cm
144-EME: FT-847, mgf-1801, 4x-xp20, 8877-600w
1296-EME: DEMI-Xvtr, 0.30 dBNF, 4.9m dish, 60/300W (not QRV)
http://www.kl7uw.com AK VHF-Up Group
NA Rep. for DUBUS: dubu...@hotmail.com
***********************************************************
Leif Asbrink
> Very happy to report that MAP65I-Q is now running here and
> well on single laptop!( Thinkpad T42 )
Good:-)
> Leif and some others will try to write a document on how to do the
> 2 computer setup.
Others, I can not do that. I do not know how MAP65 is listening.
Maybe it listens to the loopback and then it might be ok to
send to the IP address of the computer running MAP65.
> Core problem was, I did not know how to tell Linrad the IP address
> needed to drive the network card to talk from de Linrad computer
> to the MAP65 computer. Of course once you know it it is easy....
> the par_netsend_ip file creation.
Here is what Joe wrote two years ago:
My earlier problem with dropped multicast packets seems to
be fixed in MAP65 v0.8. However, when running the
Linrad-MAP65 combination on two separate computers I still
have some network-related problems. Perhaps someone on this
list who knows much more than I about networking can help.
My computer network looks like this:
ADSL 10 Mb/s --> Computer_A
DSL --> Modem --> Ethernet --> Computer_B
Hub |
--> Computer_C
Three computers are connected to a 10 Mb/s Ethernet Hub.
Computer_A is my XYL's machine. Computer_B runs Windows
2000 Pro, and Computer_C runs Linux (presently the Kubuntu
6.06 distribution). In addition to the connections of all
three machines to the hub, a crossover cable makes a direct
100 Mb/s connection between computers B and C.
The ethernet interfaces on B and C appear to be configured
correctly. On Linux they appear as eth0 and eth1
(occasionally they boot up as eth0 and eth2, I don't know
why???). Connections to the Hub are assigned dynamic IP
addresses; I assigned hard-coded addresses 192.168.10.12 and
192.168.10.13 for the direct inter-machine connection
between B and C.
I can use the 100 Mb/s direct line for many purposes. I can
ping over it in either direction; I can ssh into Linux from
Windows; I can use Cygwin/X (as described above) to
display Linux X programs on the Windows screen.
However, I cannot seem to persuade Windows 2000 Pro to
accept multicast packets over the direct line. When I run
Linrad on computer C and MAP65 on B, the multicast traffic
is always received over the slow line, through the Hub.
This uses most of the 10 Mb/s link's bandwidth, and my wife
can't read her email when I'm on the air. This is NOT GOOD.
By default the multicast traffic generated by Computer_C
goes to eth0. I can use the Linux "route" command to
explicitly tell the system to use eth0:
# route add -net 224.0.0.0 netmask 224.0.0.0 dev eth0
This works fine (but of course, still sends the heavy
multicast traffic through the hub). If I remove this
routing instruction and instead enter
# route add -net 224.0.0.0 netmask 224.0.0.0 dev eth1
the multicast data are not received by MAP65 running on the
other machine.
If I unplug the crossover cable from the Windows machine and
instead plug it into a laptop running Win/XP, the laptop
receives the multicast packets without a problem.
Thus, it would seem that the problem must be in my setup of
the Win2k machine -- the one with two ethernet interfaces.
Can anyone shed any light on this situation for me?
I would be very happy to receive more feedback from others
who have been using the Linrad-MAP65 combination. Are there
problems that I may have overlooked, perhaps because MAP65
has been designed with the peculiarities of my own station
in mind? Please share your experiences on this list.
-- 73, Joe, K1JT
It seems we have nobody on this list who really knows networking.
> Now even with the par_netsend_ip added in the linrad directory,
> I was using ver 3.06 all the time, it is still not working.
>
> Is it perhaps, that one needs to SHARE the hard drives on the local
> network?
NO. Linrad sends to whatever address you ask for. That is internal
in the computer where Linrad resides. Modern computers may have
several network interfaces and Linrad may or may not send to them all.
It may be necessary to configure the Linrad computer to not route
the the address Linrad is sending to through any other network
interface than the fast one. My laptop does not work properly
unless I disconnect the Ethernet cable because I have a slow
switch on the Ethernet that causes Linrad to wait for packages
running through it. The WLAN is fast however and is connected to a
fast part of my network. I can of course connect the laptop directly
to another computer and then there is no problem.
> With 2 network cards plus the Ip's set I can transfer files, etc
> from the shared parts of the hard drives of the 2 computers.
>
> Linrad refuses though to transfer data or MAP65 does not see or
> gets them. ( Linrad in Netsend )
>
> With the laptop:
>
> The files used per MAP65-IQ from K1JT website, ( par_netsend_ip
> is included in this file set , ip address = 127.1.1.0, loop IP )
I think this will work only on a single computer. You have to
specify the IP address of the MAP65 computer or possible some
other address that is specified in MAP65.
> I am monitoring some Beacons on 28 MHz at the moment.
>
> SDR I-Q box running via USD 2.0 on laptop
> Mode SSB
>
>
> CPU load = abt 31 % reported by Lnrad
>
> Windows task manager ( CTRL ALt Del ) reports:
>
> abt 10 % CPU use for MAP65
> abt 300 MB Memory use for MAP65
>
> abt 37% CPU for Linrad ( SSB mode at abt 90 Khz sampling rate
> Abt 25 MB Memory use for Linrad.
>
> I assume when actually wsjt65B signals are t be decoded,
> the MAP65 load will increase.
>
> Changing over to MAP65 and loading the practice file, it appears
> that the program starts to work really 10's of seconds after
> the test file load started.
>
>
> Bottom lime is that from here it certainly appears that SDR65 I-Q installs and
> is working in no time. It is ready to go!
>
>
> Softrock vs SDR I_Q.
>
> Doug and I have done in the past some comparison measurements for the SDR box
> versus one of my softocks. Softrock is runnung with Si570 LO, and has
> a pre-selector. We found the sensitivity on 28 Mhz of the softrock approx
> 10 dB better then the SDR I-Q.
> Softrock with a un modified delta44 sound card ( the same numbers with
> Linrad in SSB mode, Winrad and SpectraVue.
>
> I use a little portable softrock SDR here with the laptop and have to use
> an external soundcard for the I/Q processing ( USB sound card )
>
> Of course, SDR IQ receives 0-30 MHz in one sweep, Sofrock is narrow band,
> and would need a lot extra to have it cover 30 MHz of as one spectrum.
The SDR-IQ is limited to a bandwidth of maybe 170 kHz. It depends on
the computer and the operating system because USB is the bottleneck.
On my Pentium IV under Linux in terminal mode it runs up to 230 kHz.
When you see the full spectrum in SpectraVue, you only see about 1% of
the time with a correspondingly poor S/N (and no chance to decode any
signal.)
73
Leif
Leif Asbrink
> After having been running in the monitoring / decode
> mode for hours without problems, I wanted to try
> the send mode in MAP65.
>
> There is a problem here. As soon as the send cycle in MAP65
> starts, Linrad stops. This might be correct or not , though I think
> it is not.
This is certainly incorrect. I think the reason is that the
USB channel looses data. Under Windows that causes the input
to stop and you should see a message "No input" in the lower
left corner of the Linrad screen with a counter that slowly
steps up to show Linrad is actually alive.
.
> When the 48 seconds send period has past, Linrad does not
> not come back to life. As a matter of fact it is not responding to the
> "X" key strokes any longer,
> "Netsend" is still on in this state,
You may try to ease the load on your computer by setting "Second
forward FFT version" to 2. You may also set the second FFT window
to 1 as well as not click any signal in Linrad.
You may also try to run Linrad in higher priority and/or MAP65
in lower priority.
> It worked one time perhaps out of 15 tries. At that time, one could
> hear linrad's video at the same time as the WSJT tones for the
> modulation.
"Linrad's video" ???? Please describe what you refer to.
> The only sound card is used by Linrad and by MAP65
> to output modulation tones.
Then you should set up Linrad to not use it at all for output.
(It is in the U menu.)
> I then disabled ths sound card in Linrad.It did not make any
> difference.
>
> A message on linrad where the CPU load number is visible, appears
> "No input" and t 1335 where it seems the 1335 keeps on incrementing.
> MAP65 shows the red No rx data.
Yes:-) The USB has stopped because some other process was holding
the CPU for too long. Maybe you have visual effects enabled? Other
programs running? A safe solution is to place MAP65 in a different
computer....
73
Leif
Leif Asbrink
> I don't believe it is language matter. It is more
> I think, like in a school class, a world wide school
> class. Also if there were a good recording mechanism
> where questions and answers would be stored in such a way
> that one could go and read first ( I know most of us fail
> in that activity )
The problem is that there would be too many uninteresting
questions and answers.
> before asking repeat questions over and over.
> The last, being hard on the designer/teacher.
This does not happen at all. As you can see on the list there
are very few questions - and very seldomly any repeated
questions. Those questions that I get normally leads to a change
somewhere and that results in a smaller probability for
others to run into the same problem.
I do welcome questions on the list. Answers and comments
from others help me to understand what the problem might
be.
For the par_netsend_ip problem I have added that it should
be created with a text editor. Single line in format: 10.0.0.35
Linrad-03.07 and later.
73
Leif
Rein w6sz
> NA Rep. for DUBUS: dubus...@hotmail.com
> ***********************************************************
Hi Ed,
Thanks for your experiences
with the SDR I-Q.
The point of discussion was a SDR I-Q box versus a
Softrock V9 on 28 Mhz, As I use a Si570 and the Si570
produces quite a number of higher order harmonics, I
added the pre selector more as a band pass filter at
the front end than for sensitivity reasons.
I guess the ideas vary whether SDR I-Q and all the
other SDR boards need pre-amps or not. The old
argument about too much gain before mixing or not
though in with ADC in the front th eargument is a little
different.
Thanks anyway I love to hear about experiences with SDR I-Q
or other SDR radio's
73 Rein W6SZ
Rein w6sz
> > There is a problem here. As soon as the send cycle in MAP65
> > starts, Linrad stops. This might be correct or not , though I think
> > it is not.
>
> This is certainly incorrect. I think the reason is that the
> USB channel looses data. Under Windows that causes the input
> to stop and you should see a message "No input" in the lower
> left corner of the Linrad screen with a counter that slowly
> steps up to show Linrad is actually alive.
incrementing counter,
> .> When the 48 seconds send period has past, Linrad does not
> > not come back to life. As a matter of fact it is not responding to the
> > "X" key strokes any longer,
> > "Netsend" is still on in this state,
>
> You may try to ease the load on your computer by setting "Second
> forward FFT version" to 2. You may also set the second FFT window
> to 1 as well as not click any signal in Linrad.
>
> You may also try to run Linrad in higher priority and/or MAP65
> in lower priority.
>
> > It worked one time perhaps out of 15 tries. At that time, one could
> > hear linrad's video at the same time as the WSJT tones for the
> > modulation.
>
> "Linrad's video" ???? Please describe what you refer to.
send and the beacon signal I was listening to.
Sorry for the error.
>
> > The only sound card is used by Linrad and by MAP65
> > to output modulation tones.
>
> Then you should set up Linrad to not use it at all for output.
> (It is in the U menu.)
>
> > I then disabled ths sound card in Linrad.It did not make any
> > difference.
>
> > A message on linrad where the CPU load number is visible, appears
> > "No input" and t 1335 where it seems the 1335 keeps on incrementing.
> > MAP65 shows the red No rx data.
>
> Yes:-) The USB has stopped because some other process was holding
> the CPU for too long. Maybe you have visual effects enabled? Other
> programs running? A safe solution is to place MAP65 in a different
> computer....
send period? Or data to start coming in and if not it stops?
For Joe to answer I guess.
I have problems with this, because MAP65 works with stops and starts
in the data stream via the "P" and "B" linrad menu keys.
May I assume that because temporary cpu overload or lack of
memory linrad stops transmitting or perhaps gets kicked out of the
Sendmode and not recovers from this interruption?
Should the data stream remain not interrupted during the start of
send
or send period?
I will try next your suggestions to changes of the FFT2 and or peak
selection in LInrad.
> Results of these test follow.
73 Rein
Rein w6sz
par_ssb file modified to:
Second Forward FFT version [2]
Second FFT window [1]
No traces selected.
Linrad reports 17.9 % CPU load
Windows Task Manager reports:
LInrad.exe 18 - 22 % CPU 16 MB Memory
Map65.exe 5% CPU 237 MB Memory.
Looking at the CPU load in Linrad, it drops to 0 - 1 % at the
very moment I hear the WSJT tones coming out the speaker.
Mod drive for transmitter ( not connected )
After transmit cycle is finished Linrad CPU load varies between
1 % , peaking as high as 8 %
So indeed, Linrad is still alive or at least partially.
No data transmission to MAP65 or updating screens.
in Linrad.
73 Rein W6SZ
Leif Asbrink
> > This is certainly incorrect. I think the reason is that the
> > USB channel looses data. Under Windows that causes the input
> > to stop and you should see a message "No input" in the lower
> > left corner of the Linrad screen with a counter that slowly
> > steps up to show Linrad is actually alive.
>
> The message "No input' appears there also with a slowly
> incrementing counter,
OK. The USB device driver has crashed. Linrad has called it
with a read statement and the call does not return. The "No input"
message is generated from another thread but Linrad (read I) can
not cancel a read statement that did not return under Windows.
(I can do it under Linux, but the Linux drivers does not crasch
so there is no need.)
The Windows USB driver crashes whenever the CPU does not respond
in time. The crash is within the Windows OS and it does not help
to set the priority of Linrad to realtime.
Visual effects may cause these problems. Maybe there are some
"important" tasks that Windows is doing silently that contribute
to the CPU load.
The problem is not really the CPU load but the CPU latency.
I do not know enough about Windows to give any advice. What I
did was to introduce the possibillity of running Linrad at
higher priority but that does not seem to help because
the problem is not in Linrad but in the USB system. Perhaps
another USB port would work better??
> > .> When the 48 seconds send period has past, Linrad does not
> > > not come back to life. As a matter of fact it is not responding to the
> > > "X" key strokes any longer,
> > > "Netsend" is still on in this state,
No. When the USB sub-system has crashed the only choice is
to exit from Linrad.
> > > A message on linrad where the CPU load number is visible, appears
> > > "No input" and t 1335 where it seems the 1335 keeps on incrementing.
> > > MAP65 shows the red No rx data.
> >
> > Yes:-) The USB has stopped because some other process was holding
> > the CPU for too long. Maybe you have visual effects enabled? Other
> > programs running? A safe solution is to place MAP65 in a different
> > computer....
>
> Is this that MAP65 expects data to stream again at the end of the
> send period? Or data to start coming in and if not it stops?
>
> For Joe to answer I guess.
MAP65 normally receives data all the time.
> I have problems with this, because MAP65 works with stops and starts
> in the data stream via the "P" and "B" linrad menu keys.
>
> May I assume that because temporary cpu overload or lack of
> memory linrad stops transmitting or perhaps gets kicked out of the
> Sendmode and not recovers from this interruption?
The USB crashes and that causes Linrad to freeze. I can not kill
a crashed USB sub-system without making an exit from the program.
> Should the data stream remain not interrupted during the start of
> send
> or send period?
Linrad does not know what programs and computers that listen to
the network so it is always sending data if the network is enabled.
73
Leif / SM5BSZ
Leif Asbrink
> par_ssb file modified to:
>
> Second Forward FFT version [2]
> Second FFT window [1]
> No traces selected.
>
> Linrad reports 17.9 % CPU load
OK. Good:-)
> Windows Task Manager reports:
>
> LInrad.exe 18 - 22 % CPU 16 MB Memory
> Map65.exe 5% CPU 237 MB Memory.
That looks fine.
> Looking at the CPU load in Linrad, it drops to 0 - 1 % at the
> very moment I hear the WSJT tones coming out the speaker.
Which means that the USB crashes immediately. If you have a single
core machine and some application holds the processor for too long
USB crashes. "too long" here is not a very long time....
If the problem is MAP65 itself I think a couple of sleep statements
(zero seconds) in the MAP65 code would solve the problem. Visual
effects can be really bad. Go to "Control panel" then "System"
and select the tab "Advanced" Click "Settings" under "Performance"
and select "Adjust for best performance"
> After transmit cycle is finished Linrad CPU load varies between
> 1 % , peaking as high as 8 %
I do not know what that means. Maybe the crashed USB system uses
up CPU time that is attributed to Linrad??
> So indeed, Linrad is still alive or at least partially.
I assume it shows the "No signal" message at this point and that
means it is dead. Except for very little work in the thread
responsible for the "No input" message.
Please describe your computer: Processor, CPU clock and Windows
version so I can try to reproduce the problem on something similar.
73
Leif / SM5BSZ