Linrad MAP65 Communication II
Rein w6sz
Perhaps time to start a new discussion.
You have in Linrad the "X" and the "B" commands.
The problem I have with the send cycle in MAP65
seeming to knock out Linrad for whatever reason, could
perhaps be solved by using the procedures initiated by
the "X" and "B" commands?
It proofs that the linrad transfer can be stopped and
re-started without problems.
MAP65 sends something like a "X" command to Linrad.
At the end of the send cycle , about 48 secs later for
the WSJT modes, a "B" like command puts Linrad back to
work and sending again data to MAP65.
I can stop data transfer to MAP65 with the "X" keystroke
in Linrad and restore data transfer into MAP65 with the
"B" stroke, This is working.
It could well be of course that there is a more serious problem
stopping Linrad, I hope not.
This brings up another question. The par_sendrec_ip is not
used in the communication between Linrad and MAP65.
I guess it could be used in a 2 or more computer setup
where the input data strem is reversed.
73 Rein W6SZ
Leif Asbrink
> Perhaps time to start a new discussion.
>
> You have in Linrad the "X" and the "B" commands.
>
> The problem I have with the send cycle in MAP65
> seeming to knock out Linrad for whatever reason, could
> perhaps be solved by using the procedures initiated by
> the "X" and "B" commands?
>
> It proofs that the linrad transfer can be stopped and
> re-started without problems.
>
>
> MAP65 sends something like a "X" command to Linrad.
> At the end of the send cycle , about 48 secs later for
> the WSJT modes, a "B" like command puts Linrad back to
> work and sending again data to MAP65.
>
> I can stop data transfer to MAP65 with the "X" keystroke
> in Linrad and restore data transfer into MAP65 with the
> "B" stroke, This is working.
Yes, but a much better solution would be to correct whatever
goes wrong with the USB link so it would not hang on its read
statement forever when an error has occured. Under Linux this
problem does not exist, some data may be silently lost.
I hesitate to add a function by which Linrad is stopped
during transmit. Networking is too complex already...
> It could well be of course that there is a more serious problem
> stopping Linrad, I hope not.
>
> This brings up another question. The par_sendrec_ip is not
> used in the communication between Linrad and MAP65.
> I guess it could be used in a 2 or more computer setup
> where the input data strem is reversed.
The default multicast of Linrad is not allowed to reach outside
a local network. The netsend/netrec files allows you to adapt
to the rules of your own network.
The only info I have is what SM0ERR wrote:
-----------------
Thanks for the flexible IP adressing. Nice for us running LINRAD
inside large corporate networks !!
-----------------
By the way, the idea of including par_netsend_ip in the distribution
package would destroy a property of Linrad that I find extremely
valuable myself. A new version does not overwrite any of the
parameter files. Overwriting the network files every time a
new version is installed would worsen a problem that is already
bad enough. The "do not fix something that is not broken" problem.
Too few users take the trouble to install the latest version to
save their own time. That is rational of course, but it delays
reports on mistakes that I might do and when I eventually get
information something is wrong I have already forgotten why
I made changes to that part of the code. These are important
aspects of Linrad:
Everything resides in a single directory. Copy *.* is a complete
backup.
The Linrad installation consists of two parts. Copy par*.* will
save the entire configuration /setup and an install of a new
version will not silently overwrite any of the par* files.
Running a new version may sometimes change parameter files because
now and then new parameters are introduced. Linrad would then
select defaults for screen related stuff or else prompt for
parameter setup.
73
Leif
Rein w6sz
Let me step back a bit and forgive me for all the
questions....
I started this with the intention to use 2 computers and drifted
eventually towards this solution with one computer..
Could not get the 2 computers to work together even after the
introduction of the par_netsend_ip parameter.
The introduction was via Joe's MAP65 I-Q package.
I am afraid the present problem is a timing problem in particular
as I it working sort of in one of perhaps 15 trials.
Shortage in CPU or memory.
Here are a few more questions:
Given this 1 computer setup, should I select uni- or multicast?
You say Linrad is in multicast as default. How could I have known
this?
The only place I saw the " _cast" parameter selectable is in MAP65.
( have been given by others no conclusive answers.,( also, it has come
up in most of the exchanges)
My interpretation was with a 2 computer system uni-
one communicates with 1 computer.
multi_ with more than one "slave" computer.
For the same money, one could say uni- with a single
computer, multi- with more than 1 computer in the system.
I would also think one would need more than one IP or computer
name in order to communicate with one than one "slaved computer"
With just 2 computers waht should it really be?
SM0ERR is running linrad on a corporate system.
How does he handle the IP issue without a par_netsend_ip
and or par_netrec_ip parameter?
This question generated in my mind because you say
the introduction of a blank par_net*_ip is not such a
good idea.
I hope the answer is not: "he is running Linux and tunes his files
and the program directly to make at work.?"
It is hard for me to imagine that he is able and to get away with
this in a corporate environment with out REALLY understanding
networking. Or, more likely that he is the corporate top IT person
himself!
I still like to hear from somebody whether in a 2 computer system
I should have "shared hard drives" for his?
More to the point, WHY or why not.
Getting back to your idea of a problem in the USB start/stop
data flow. You are right I am sure.
In using the parameters from Joe's MAP65 I-Q fresh loaded
for SSB mode only.
I start Linrad, S and U, are done by Joe;s parameters
I press D, Linrad is working ( stand alone )
The next step is real confusing to me, given that the program
started with "netsend on" and it is suggested to do the
saving "W"
All I can do is, toggle T to remove the netsend on message,
toggle T again and do a W and then click D
Thinking make sure it is in "T" and then save it.
One point of the confusion is that linrad comes in the
netsend on mode?
Anyway. Next is I start MAP65 I-Q and hope to not
to see "no RX data" and see a real dB number in the
noise indication window.
It leaves the selection of the cast mode in MAP65
as well as the setting of the diagnostics also in
the MAP65. program.
I hope somebody can tell me: you are all wrong it
should be this way.
Another issue is that the above is working most of
the time but not 100% solid, I getting "no RX data"
at times.
I then start over. I have not bern able to discover
a way to correct the data stream issue with one or
2 key strokes.
Next question
Once MAP65 goes into transmit ( generating
tones via the sound card ( selected in MAP65 )
and also selected earlier for Linrad ( by Joe's
parameter file set.)
Should at that point the USB data stream form the
SDR I-Q box into linrad stop or not?
The incoming data are useless at that point anyway.
Should at the end of the send period in MAP65 the
USB data stream resume?
Suppose I did away with the USB SDR I-Q all togheter,
And change back to the delta44 what should happen
then in this respect ( linrad keeps working during the
send period? I have removed the USB factor now?
Going to put MAP65 I/Q on 3 other XP bench tops
and see what happens in transmit.
In conlusion, I get the impression of being an idiot having
to ask all these questions in the presence of 150 other
users!
73 Rein W6SZ
Leif Asbrink
> I started this with the intention to use 2 computers and drifted
> eventually towards this solution with one computer..
would not be any timing issues.
> Could not get the 2 computers to work together even after the
> introduction of the par_netsend_ip parameter.
Did you really write the address of the computer inside which
you run MAP65 into the file?
> The introduction was via Joe's MAP65 I-Q package.
OK.
>
> I am afraid the present problem is a timing problem in particular
> as I it working sort of in one of perhaps 15 trials.
> Shortage in CPU or memory.
Yes. Windows will use its swap file without giving any warning
and that may cause various problems. You can set all storage times
to minimum to minimize the memory used by Linrad.
> Here are a few more questions:
>
> Given this 1 computer setup, should I select uni- or multicast?
Linrad does not give any choice.
> You say Linrad is in multicast as default. How could I have known
> this?
Start at SM5BSZ Home Page:
http://www.sm5bsz.com/index.htm
http://nitehawk.com/sm5bsz/index.htm
http://g7rau.demon.co.uk/sm5bsz/index.htm
On this page there are two links
Linrad <http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/linrad.htm>
Linrad for newcomers <http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/usage/newco/newcomer.htm>
The newcomer page has a link to <http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/linrad.htm>
the same as the first link on the SM5BSZ Home Page.
The Linrad link goes to "Linrad Home Page" and here you should
search for network. The word network occurs two times on the page and
the second occurance is this:
LINRAD NETWORK <http://www.sm5bsz.com/linuxdsp/run/network.htm>
That page starts like this:
General
Linrad uses the network to make raw or processed data available
to other programs that may run on the same computer or on any
other computer in a local network.
Linrad can multicast on IP addresses (groups) 239.255.0.0 to
239.255.0.15 This means that several computers can multicast
their data to the network simultaneously in different groups.
The Linrad base port has to be set between 50000 and 65000
in steps of 10 and Linrad will send data to a port with an
offset with respect to the base port that depends on the
data format.
> The only place I saw the " _cast" parameter selectable is in MAP65.
Yes. The Linrad network was not intended for MAP65 originally
but for use in a multioperator contest station. I got
enquieries about the use of two computers on the same antenna.
Would it be possible to connect Delta44 cards in parallel or
would one need two RX2500 units. (The answer is perhaps.
There could be a significant increase in the noise floor but
a really thick and short wire between the two Delta44 might
help.) The network was originally implemented as a solution
to this problem.
> ( have been given by others no conclusive answers.,( also, it has come
> up in most of the exchanges)
Well, describing all options that would be possible and that
Linrad does not have would be quite a challenge. I do not know
enough about networking to have any idea about how to implement
a unicast solution because a pairwise computer communication
is normally "error free" which means that the Linrad computer
would hang if the map65 computer gets too busy.
I think the terminology is confusing and presumably misleading.
What Linrad does is to send data of type SOCK_STREAM to the network
socket. The choice is based on this information:
SOCK_STREAM
Provides sequenced, reliable, two-way, connection-based byte
streams. An out-of-band data transmission mechanism may be sup‐
ported.
SOCK_DGRAM
Supports datagrams (connectionless, unreliable messages of a
fixed maximum length).
SOCK_SEQPACKET
Provides a sequenced, reliable, two-way connection-based data
transmission path for datagrams of fixed maximum length; a con‐
sumer is required to read an entire packet with each read system
call.
SOCK_RAW
Provides raw network protocol access.
SOCK_RDM
Provides a reliable datagram layer that does not guarantee
ordering.
SOCK_PACKET
Obsolete and should not be used in new programs; see packet(7).
Read about multicast here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicast
It seems to me that the transmission would be unicast if only one
computer joins the group (=the IP address to which Linrad transmits
the datagrams) while it becomes multicast if more computers join.
The transmitting Linrad does not get any information from MAP65
or or slaves as a response to the datagrams. Linrad does however
have a server to which other computers can send inquieries about
what calibration function to use etc. Linrad slaves use it for
unicast back to the master to say at what frequency they listen.
> My interpretation was with a 2 computer system uni-
> one communicates with 1 computer.
Yes. By only having two computers the communication could be called
unicast if one accepts the definition given by the illustrations
on wikipedia.
> multi_ with more than one "slave" computer.
Yes. But the difference is in the network. Not in Linrad.
When using SOCK_DGRAM one does not know if there is one listener
(=unicast) or more than one (=multicast) or wether there
is no listener at all.
> For the same money, one could say uni- with a single
> computer, multi- with more than 1 computer in the system.
I do not know. It would be nice if someone who really knows
the terminology for networks would write a text about networks
with the relevant information for Linrad users that I could
put at the top of the Linrad Network page.
> I would also think one would need more than one IP or computer
> name in order to communicate with one than one "slaved computer"
>
> With just 2 computers waht should it really be?
I do not understand this question.
> SM0ERR is running linrad on a corporate system.
>
> How does he handle the IP issue without a par_netsend_ip
> and or par_netrec_ip parameter?
Oooh! He does use these files. What he wrote was his response
when I introduced these files.
> This question generated in my mind because you say
> the introduction of a blank par_net*_ip is not such a
> good idea.
I can not follow your argument here.
Mart has created a par_netsend_ip on the computer that is connected
to the radio hardware. In that file he has written an IP address
that is legal within his corporate network. Perhaps the IP
address of the computer he has in his office, perhaps some other
address.
He has then a file par_netrec_ip with the same address in each
computer that he wants to use for the Linrad slave. He might
have one in his office and another in the lab and perhaps even one
at home. I actually do not know - but perhaps he will send
a mail to the list and give some info if he reads this:-)
> I hope the answer is not: "he is running Linux and tunes his files
> and the program directly to make at work.?"
No No. Linrad is the same in Linux and Windows.
Before I added the par_xxx_ip files Linrad users had to change
the IP address in the source code in network.c and recompile
in order to use MAP65. That was the same under Linux and Windows.
Just two commands "configure" and then "make":-)
> It is hard for me to imagine that he is able and to get away with
> this in a corporate environment with out REALLY understanding
> networking. Or, more likely that he is the corporate top IT person
> himself!
It is not complicated at all. I think you have been confused
by far too much information....
> I still like to hear from somebody whether in a 2 computer system
> I should have "shared hard drives" for his?
There is absolutely no reason that I can find out. You can
have it if you want to have access to files that are stored on the
other computer. I do not know to what extent that might cause
loss of data for MAP65.
> More to the point, WHY or why not.
For Linrad and MAP65 or Linrad slaves there is absolutely
no reason.
> Getting back to your idea of a problem in the USB start/stop
> data flow. You are right I am sure.
>
>
> In using the parameters from Joe's MAP65 I-Q fresh loaded
> for SSB mode only.
>
> I start Linrad, S and U, are done by Joe;s parameters
>
> I press D, Linrad is working ( stand alone )
OK.
> The next step is real confusing to me, given that the program
> started with "netsend on" and it is suggested to do the
> saving "W"
???????
The W means that you have changed one of the computer related
parameters. (One of those in par_userint) That will happen if
you use R, S, T, U, V or N in the main menu. Linrad assumes
something is changed as soon as you enter one of these functions
and shows the W message even if you actually did not change
any parameter value.
> All I can do is, toggle T to remove the netsend on message,
> toggle T again and do a W and then click D
No. You have choices:
1) You can ignore the warning which means that the changes you
made will be valid for the current Linrad session but next
time you start Linrad it will use the unchanged parameters
from your par_userint file.
2) Just press W, then D.
> Thinking make sure it is in "T" and then save it.
>
> One point of the confusion is that linrad comes in the
> netsend on mode?
Why is that?
Step 1: Exexcute the selfextracting file that Joe supplies.
Step 2: Click the Linrad icon that now appears on the desktop.
Step 3: Press D.
That is all if you run MAP65 in the same computer.
> Anyway. Next is I start MAP65 I-Q and hope to not
> to see "no RX data" and see a real dB number in the
> noise indication window.
>
> It leaves the selection of the cast mode in MAP65
> as well as the setting of the diagnostics also in
> the MAP65. program.
Presumably you should just start the program.
> I hope somebody can tell me: you are all wrong it
> should be this way.
>
> Another issue is that the above is working most of
> the time but not 100% solid, I getting "no RX data"
> at times.
You mean "No input" in Linrad?
> I then start over. I have not bern able to discover
> a way to correct the data stream issue with one or
> 2 key strokes.
When USB hangs, the only cure is to exit from Linrad.
It should never happen though. Do you know what other
programs are running? If you have visual effects
enabled (Default in Windows) you will easily overload
the CPU in case your videocard does not have appropriate
hardware acceleration.
> Next question
>
> Once MAP65 goes into transmit ( generating
> tones via the sound card ( selected in MAP65 )
> and also selected earlier for Linrad ( by Joe's
> parameter file set.)
>
> Should at that point the USB data stream form the
> SDR I-Q box into linrad stop or not?
The USB data stream should not stop. Linrad does not
know that MAP65 is listening.
> The incoming data are useless at that point anyway.
Hmmm, you can use it to see if you are transmitting
at the desired frequency and you can use Linrad to monitor
your frequency drift. You could also connect your receiver
to a directional coupler during transmit and use the
Linrad S-meter to check your WSVR.
> Should at the end of the send period in MAP65 the
> USB data stream resume?
NO. USB should run all the time.
> Suppose I did away with the USB SDR I-Q all togheter,
>
> And change back to the delta44 what should happen
> then in this respect ( linrad keeps working during the
> send period? I have removed the USB factor now?
That should solve the problem. You could also connect
a second computer for MAP65.
> Going to put MAP65 I/Q on 3 other XP bench tops
> and see what happens in transmit.
You mean Linrad + MAP65-IQ ?
> In conlusion, I get the impression of being an idiot having
> to ask all these questions in the presence of 150 other
> users!
It does help:-)
Your questions have lead to one improvement in the Linrad setup
dialogue already. Hopefully there will be someone who will
help by writing a suitable introduction to networking for
Linrad users to be placed on the Linrad network page....
73
Leif
rei...@ix.netcom.com
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <le...@sm5bsz.com>
>Sent: Jul 23, 2009 4:29 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad MAP65 Communication II
>
>
>Hi Rein,
>
>> I started this with the intention to use 2 computers and drifted
>> eventually towards this solution with one computer..
>OK. But two computers should actually be easier since there
>would not be any timing issues.
The IP adress of the MAP65 laptop is obtained with the DOS
Ipconfig/all and I can ping the addresses from the other computers.
Also they work in the microsoft sense of the word, as a so called
home network.
>
>> Could not get the 2 computers to work together even after the
>> introduction of the par_netsend_ip parameter.
>Did you really write the address of the computer inside which
>you run MAP65 into the file?
setup menu ( ist or second line )
>> The introduction was via Joe's MAP65 I-Q package.
>OK.
>>
>> I am afraid the present problem is a timing problem in particular
>> as I it working sort of in one of perhaps 15 trials.
>> Shortage in CPU or memory.
>Yes. Windows will use its swap file without giving any warning
>and that may cause various problems. You can set all storage times
>to minimum to minimize the memory used by Linrad.
>
>> Here are a few more questions:
>>
>> Given this 1 computer setup, should I select uni- or multicast?
>Linrad does not give any choice.
>
>> You say Linrad is in multicast as default. How could I have known
>> this?
>Start at SM5BSZ Home Page:
>http://www.sm5bsz.com/index.htm
>http://nitehawk.com/sm5bsz/index.htm
>http://g7rau.demon.co.uk/sm5bsz/index.htm
we talked about, I came from MAP65 and was expecting to see
something like use "unicast for ( 1 or 2 computers ) " You see
I still do not get it!
You did not define what you understand uni ( one to one = 2 )
or one to more than 2 ( multi )
Believe me Leif, I have been told by others that I have been e-mailing with,
both settings to use. For the same situation.
There is confusion about this. It is not just me. I am trying to eliminate
this, and get to instructions that gets one results right away,
You will say almost I am not going to do this because I like to see how
people make out and I learn from it.
I really am not out to make trouble. I hurts your cause! Isn't satisfying
if people can download your work that you have put so many efforts towards,
just out of the box?
Leif, I really want to be positive and creative here. Really.
the Linrad as flexible and adaptable to all possible applcations
present and future. On the other hand one approach does not exclude
the others.
You just introduced the beginners version.
Great step forward.
May I say imagine if you had introduced this 5 or
perhaps even 10 years ago. Getting old, can't quite
remember if it is has been 10 years or more. The introduction of
the windows version, has without a doubt, made ir easier to do this.
But I believe you could have done this mush earlier even in Linux.
Let me suggest not to use "N" for this, as "N" is used for network setup
already any other not used letter would be fine I think
I was using ver 3.06 hat has the "N" option and I for get how I got
to the Network setup but i did.
With a selection as the "N"ewcomer you can of course go to another
version of the existing program.
Linux is out of the box these days as long as one stays away from sound
cards andthe like and want to do programming plus a few other things I
guess.
The use of Linrad with MAP65 is at this point a much more important
application in amateur cicles I think. There is ton of amateurs on
2 M EME with JT65 these days, virtually around the clock 7 * 24 * 30/(31)
They all could use Linrad/MAP and the way people spend effort
( and money ) these days many try to obtain the very best within there means.
The nature of EME in a 100 Khz wide band makes finding each other
a difficult problem and time consuming problem , it ties in with the
hated use of the EME loggers etc etc.
MAP65 allows to operate without help from loggers, sked lists, the phone.
you name it.
>
>> ( have been given by others no conclusive answers.,( also, it has come
>> up in most of the exchanges)
>Well, describing all options that would be possible and that
>Linrad does not have would be quite a challenge. I do not know
>enough about networking to have any idea about how to implement
>a unicast solution because a pairwise computer communication
>is normally "error free" which means that the Linrad computer
>would hang if the map65 computer gets too busy.
All machines XP
Having a laptop P4 1.7 GHz 512 MB
2 benchtops P4 1.7 or 1.9 Ghz 512 NB and the 2d 1024 MB memory
Loaded this morning fresh MAP65 I-Q linrad,2.35 is included in the MMAP65
package,available from K1JT's web pages ( google MAP65 Linrad will gets one there )
Installing this has become second nature here and it really is out of the box.
It needs of course a RF SPACE SDR NN and USB port(s) on the computer to be
used.
The 512 MB machine runs fine with MAp65, there are no interruptions of the MAP65
data stream reception when the WSJT65B send cycle starts. Linrad keeps on sending
data it seems and as said it is working. Except for a minor point.
It I open a pull down menu in MAP65 the data steam reception of MAP65 stops
as in the previous laptop version when MAP goes in "send"
So the pulling down of the a menu causes an event that prevents linrad
sending out data, I think that is really what is happening.
similar as with the laptop. I can live with that I think
The 2d benchtop is just working! During send Linrad keeps working and
sending audio to the sound card. it keeps doing this even when MAP65
goes into send. WSJT tones and receiver audio are both present.
Sound card gets obvious signal from 2 sources. Ansd it is not causing
any problems.
Out of perhaps as many as 15 loadings with the laptop I had that happen
once! This indicates that there is something time critical on the edge.
It is by no means clear to me what interaction there is between
Linrad and MAP65 except that they both use the same CPU and of course
any high load of the CPU could cause trouble.
MAP65 does not seem to care whether the incoming data stream stops as
in the Linrad "P" key stroke . as soon the data steam resumes ( 'B")
it accepts the data
Linrad on the other hand seem to show sensitivity to "events" and
it does not recover though it keeps running in some fashion.
Certainly if the the CPU gets to busy trouble start.
However, I have a 15 MB powerpoint picture fileel of my beloved
harbor of Rotterdam and I can kick this file from one computer
to the other on this very network we are taking about, via the
2 network cards in these 2 computer faster than I can see it happen.
Msecs probably. Have this had working here since I started this 10
days ago.
multicast.
users to do this stuff, and it is unlikely in my experience, that users
in the corporation have root privileges. I am not sure what it takes
to work with IP addresses in XP or Vista.
>> The incoming data are useless at that point anyway.
>Hmmm, you can use it to see if you are transmitting
>at the desired frequency and you can use Linrad to monitor
>your frequency drift. You could also connect your receiver
>to a directional coupler during transmit and use the
>Linrad S-meter to check your WSVR.
T/R swiching, attenuation to make it useful. If implement
yes, linrad is a selective voltmeter, power meter or
spectrum analyzer in the end.
>> Should at the end of the send period in MAP65 the
>> USB data stream resume?
>NO. USB should run all the time.
streaned data a this point?
>> Suppose I did away with the USB SDR I-Q all togheter,
>>
>> And change back to the delta44 what should happen
>> then in this respect ( linrad keeps working during the
>> send period? I have removed the USB factor now?
>That should solve the problem. You could also connect
>a second computer for MAP65.
Linrad is streaming data on the network card
with the right IP ( prove of this is that I can
transfer files form the linrad "shared" documents
directory ( windows security stuff ) to the
"shared" documents directory on the MAP65 computer.
Windows lets one set up a shared directory for John
at Larse's computer as well as a shared directory
for Bjorn at Larse's computer, John can not send
data to Larse's computer except to his dedicated
shared directory and so on.
That's why I keep on asking about Shared
I do not understand why I can't get with the data stream clearly
present, into MAP65. It HAS to be a network problem or setting.
The one computer system is working, the only difference is
127.0.0.1 vs 169.254.196.84 on another ( protected ? )
computer.
While writing this I realize all of the sudden that the laptop
has a firewall! ( new in XP I think vis XP updates )
On the other hand if this is the reason I would have expected
plenty of questions by other windows users here on the
reflector "Do have a fire wall on the laptop "
Just think here on paper.
Will check this later, just one click to turn that off.
I have genuine XP stuff here on these machines and MS will check
it all the time. With the drive to fight cyberwars etc, they make a
big efforts to update the OS with security fixes ( almost daily
via internet updating ) One of these updates is the firewall thing
some time ago. I know the laptop has it.
>
>> Going to put MAP65 I/Q on 3 other XP bench tops
>> and see what happens in transmit.
>You mean Linrad + MAP65-IQ ?
MAP65 I-Q installation.
If one installs MAP65 I-Q linrad is also installed both
with short cuts.
Ready to go, as on my 2d and 3d computer.,
>> In conlusion, I get the impression of being an idiot having
>> to ask all these questions in the presence of 150 other
>> users!
>It does help:-)
>Your questions have lead to one improvement in the Linrad setup
>dialogue already. Hopefully there will be someone who will
>help by writing a suitable introduction to networking for
>Linrad users to be placed on the Linrad network page....
your web page. I have suggested him to contact you. I think every-
thing is in the paper and there would be no need for me to do it.
Although I am still willing to do it.
The point is also that I did not learn anything new from his text, had
done every thing right from the beginning. He has a way of creating
the par_netsend_ip file by starting from a copy of one of the other
parameter files and than modifying it. I have the strong impression
from my doings here that that is not needed, do not know really.
Also next week I will try to clean up the 25 or so files we generated and
edit it to a Q&A format. This should make the reading easier.
Next week I will also comment on all your other comments in this message.
I am running out of time here.
As nobody else seem to have the problems I have here I would love to give
you a hand with a possible solution.
What keeps me from doing this is really to get a "development" or just
"test", if you like, machine together. A few years ago I compiled linux
versions of Linrad, but found it difficult to get everythig linux
installed so that I could compile and go through the process without
generating pages with error messages due to missing stuff in the Linux
installation on the drive.
I imagine that working in Windows is even more trouble as Bill wants
me to buy the, the MS development software.
Perhaps you can make me suggestions what to do for this if anythisng
The SDR hardware is not mine and it would be too much problems to send
it over anyway, I am aftraid.
>
>73
>
>Leif
>
>
>
>
>>
Leif Asbrink
> >> I started this with the intention to use 2 computers and drifted
> >> eventually towards this solution with one computer..
> >OK. But two computers should actually be easier since there
> >would not be any timing issues.
>
> I have yet to have 2 computers to communicate.
No. The computers will not communicate. (bi-directional)
One computer sends UDP packets to an IP address that you have
to specify.
> The IP adress of the MAP65 laptop is obtained with the DOS
> Ipconfig/all and I can ping the addresses from the other computers.
Good. Together with what base port MAP65 is using that is all you
need to know for Linrad.
> Also they work in the microsoft sense of the word, as a so called
> home network.
That is fine but not needed. If you can ping the addres that is
specified in Linrad, everything is fine. Then MAP65 can use
loopback at 127.0.0.1 I think.
> >> Could not get the 2 computers to work together even after the
> >> introduction of the par_netsend_ip parameter.
> >Did you really write the address of the computer inside which
> >you run MAP65 into the file?
> Absolutely and the correct IP address shows up in the networking
> setup menu ( ist or second line )
OK. Then the problem is in the network. Unfortunately I know nothing
at all about networking. I always disable all firewalls and other
difficult to manage safety features.
I hope someone else can help. I am sorry, but I just do not know.
> >Start at SM5BSZ Home Page:
> >http://www.sm5bsz.com/index.htm
> >http://nitehawk.com/sm5bsz/index.htm
> >http://g7rau.demon.co.uk/sm5bsz/index.htm
>
> Agreed and I had and have seen that, It's one of those things
> we talked about, I came from MAP65 and was expecting to see
> something like use "unicast for ( 1 or 2 computers ) " You see
> I still do not get it!
I do not understand why you expect to see "unicast for ( 1 or 2
computers )."
I do not know much about networking. The code in Linrad is built
on prototype code that Roger, W3SZ supplied long ago. I built
on it by use of trial and error. The Linrad network is never
unicast however if I choose to believe what Wikipedia writes:
"Unicast messaging is used for all network processes where a
private or unique resource is requested making most networking
traffic Unicast in form. Unicast is used where two way connections
are needed to complete the network transaction."
The Linrad -> MAP65 data stream is not a two way communication.
> You did not define what you understand uni ( one to one = 2 )
> or one to more than 2 ( multi )
No. I never used the word uni. As seen from within Linrad the
transmission of data is multicasting. Linrad does not know
whether there is anyone listening at all or whether many
computers are receiving the data.
> Believe me Leif, I have been told by others that I have been e-mailing with,
> both settings to use. For the same situation.
Now you refer to settings in MAP65 and I do not have any
idea in what way they differ. I hope Joe is reading this and
can explain to us:-)
> There is confusion about this. It is not just me. I am trying to eliminate
> this, and get to instructions that gets one results right away,
Dear Rein, I have no idea what the problem might be. Maybe Joe
has coded MAP65 to listen to 127.0.0.1 if unicast is specified and to
192.0.0.2 or something else when multicast is specified.
The network in Linrad is uncomplicated. Typically one would select
a totally free IP address in an addres range that is not transmitted
to the outside world through the router connecting to the Internet.
There is a standard for that and that standard is adopted in Linrad.
Joe wanted something different to minimize the load on his network.
Linrad allows free experimentation - but I do not have the knowledge
about networking to give any advice. I am sorry for that.
> You will say almost I am not going to do this because I like to see how
> people make out and I learn from it.
??????????
I have tried to the best of my knowledge to tell you everything that
I know - and that is not much.
I do know however that as seen from Linrad networking is extremely simple.
Specify an IP address and a base port and Linrad will send data there
as specified in the network setup.
> I really am not out to make trouble. I hurts your cause! Isn't satisfying
> if people can download your work that you have put so many efforts towards,
> just out of the box?
>
> Leif, I really want to be positive and creative here. Really.
I appreciate that - but I can not explain why Joe adopted the terminology
of uni- and multi-casting.
> the windows version, has without a doubt, made it easier to do this.
> But I believe you could have done this mush earlier even in Linux.
It is not so easy. I did not have the knowledge to do it earlier.
I find it extremely difficult to follow the way others think.
It is very hard to know what to write in order to meet unspoken
assumptions that occur in the amateur community. The current
example with uni/multi is typical. I did not have the slightest
idea that a problem was hidden here before you brought it up.
Now I know it will be a good idea to write some more about
what Linrad is doing. Maybe I should just remove all occurances
of the word cast. Linrad sends UDP...
> Let me suggest not to use "N" for this, as "N" is used for network setup
> already any other not used letter would be fine I think
There are no not used letters. Many letters occur many times
and each time the user is presented with a choice it is necessary
to read the text and take the decision based on what it says.
> I was using ver 3.06 hat has the "N" option and I for get how I got
> to the Network setup but i did.
If you are a newcomer there is no network. Not many other things
either, just a basic receiver.
> With a selection as the "N"ewcomer you can of course go to another
> version of the existing program.
???????????
I do not understand what you mean here.
> Linux is out of the box these days as long as one stays away from sound
> cards andthe like and want to do programming plus a few other things I
> guess.
The most popular distro seems to be Ubuntu. I personally find that
one rather difficult because of all its safety features. I find Debian
easier.
> The use of Linrad with MAP65 is at this point a much more important
> application in amateur cicles I think. There is ton of amateurs on
> 2 M EME with JT65 these days, virtually around the clock 7 * 24 * 30/(31)
> They all could use Linrad/MAP and the way people spend effort
> ( and money ) these days many try to obtain the very best within there means.
> The nature of EME in a 100 Khz wide band makes finding each other
> a difficult problem and time consuming problem , it ties in with the
> hated use of the EME loggers etc etc.
> MAP65 allows to operate without help from loggers, sked lists, the phone.
> you name it.
Yes. I have no idea why there is a problem in the first place. I find
it hard to believe it is within Linrad or its setup procedures.
It could be the operating system: Visual effects, firewalls, other
softwares that destroy the latency, whatever.
It could be the network itself. Routers, switches, whatever.
It could also be MAP65.
> My latest results are now as follows.
>
> All machines XP
>
> Having a laptop P4 1.7 GHz 512 MB
> 2 benchtops P4 1.7 or 1.9 Ghz 512 NB and the 2d 1024 MB memory
>
> Loaded this morning fresh MAP65 I-Q linrad,2.35 is included in the MMAP65
> package,available from K1JT's web pages ( google MAP65 Linrad will gets one there )
OK.
> Installing this has become second nature here and it really is out of the box.
> It needs of course a RF SPACE SDR NN and USB port(s) on the computer to be
> used.
>
> The 512 MB machine runs fine with MAp65, there are no interruptions of the MAP65
> data stream reception when the WSJT65B send cycle starts. Linrad keeps on sending
> data it seems and as said it is working. Except for a minor point.
> It I open a pull down menu in MAP65 the data steam reception of MAP65 stops
> as in the previous laptop version when MAP goes in "send"
Visual Effects may cause such problems.
> So the pulling down of the a menu causes an event that prevents linrad
> sending out data, I think that is really what is happening.
> similar as with the laptop. I can live with that I think
I have a laptop with XP and a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4. The system monitor
shows 100% CPU load for about 5 seconds just before transmit
starts, but that has no adverse effects at all. Linrad and MAP65
are excactly as they come with Joes package except for the change
needed to use SDR-14 instead of SDR-IQ.
If I move a window while the CPU load is 100% the 100% load lasts
for 10 seconds but that does not affect the processing at all.
That is with all visual effects enabled. When I disable visual
effects I see no increase in CPU load while moving windows around.
> The 2d benchtop is just working! During send Linrad keeps working and
> sending audio to the sound card. it keeps doing this even when MAP65
> goes into send. WSJT tones and receiver audio are both present.
> Sound card gets obvious signal from 2 sources. Ansd it is not causing
> any problems.
OK. I do not know much about all the softwares that typically
run in the background under XP. Having both Linrad and MAP65 on
a single computer is time critical and unforgiving because of
the way USB behaves. The problem does not exist under Linux....
> Out of perhaps as many as 15 loadings with the laptop I had that happen
> once! This indicates that there is something time critical on the edge.
>
> It is by no means clear to me what interaction there is between
> Linrad and MAP65 except that they both use the same CPU and of course
> any high load of the CPU could cause trouble.
The problem is the drive routine for the USB. The fact that it crashes
rather than looses some data (with an appropriate error code) when
it is not serviced in time. Linrad itself is not sensitive to
high CPU load and there is no interaction between Linrad and MAP65
except for Linrad sending (blindly) UDP packages while MAP65
looks for them.
> MAP65 does not seem to care whether the incoming data stream stops as
> in the Linrad "P" key stroke . as soon the data steam resumes ( 'B")
> it accepts the data
>
> Linrad on the other hand seem to show sensitivity to "events" and
> it does not recover though it keeps running in some fashion.
Yes. As I repeatedly tell you: I do not know how to handle a crashed
device driver under Windows so Linrad can not do anything. I am not
sure it can be done at all. The thread is hanging on a blocking
read and I have no idea what to do to force a return.
> Certainly if the the CPU gets to busy trouble start.
Not really. With other hardware as well as under Linux CPU
overload does not cause crashes, only loss of data which
is not a big problem. If the output stutters a little
while one resizes a window or opens another program is
no problem. Not even if one wants to hear what is being received
while it happens. Usually the only consequence would be a
couple of missed screen updates.
> However, I have a 15 MB powerpoint picture fileel of my beloved
> harbor of Rotterdam and I can kick this file from one computer
> to the other on this very network we are taking about, via the
> 2 network cards in these 2 computer faster than I can see it happen.
> Msecs probably. Have this had working here since I started this 10
> days ago.
OK. The hardware is fine.
> >> It is hard for me to imagine that he is able and to get away with
> >> this in a corporate environment with out REALLY understanding
> >> networking. Or, more likely that he is the corporate top IT person
> >> himself!
> >It is not complicated at all. I think you have been confused
> >by far too much information....
>
> I thought at that point that corprate IT management do not want computer
> users to do this stuff, and it is unlikely in my experience, that users
> in the corporation have root privileges. I am not sure what it takes
> to work with IP addresses in XP or Vista.
I think this sentence contains the root of the problem.
It takes nothing to work with IP addresses in XP or Linux and I do
not think Vista or Windows 7 would be different.
A program running inside a computer can send UDP packages to any
IP address. No privileges needed and it does not matter what IP
address the computer has. The corprate IT management assigns an
IP address to your computer but that is no limitation to where
you can send UDP packages. The corprate IT management will however
not allow arbitrary IP addresses through the routers. What Mart
did was to send UDP to an IP address that is legal and will be
routed to him. Any other computer that is along the path
can also pick up the data as far as I understand. The IP address
does not have to be the address of the computer itself. Any
computer can receive all the data that is seen at the input
of the network interface.
> >> Next question
> >>
> >> Once MAP65 goes into transmit ( generating
> >> tones via the sound card ( selected in MAP65 )
> >> and also selected earlier for Linrad ( by Joe's
> >> parameter file set.)
> >>
> >> Should at that point the USB data stream form the
> >> SDR I-Q box into linrad stop or not?
> >The USB data stream should not stop. Linrad does not
> >know that MAP65 is listening.
>
> Very true, I see that now on the 2 working machines.
> >
> >> The incoming data are useless at that point anyway.
> >Hmmm, you can use it to see if you are transmitting
> >at the desired frequency and you can use Linrad to monitor
> >your frequency drift. You could also connect your receiver
> >to a directional coupler during transmit and use the
> >Linrad S-meter to check your WSVR.
>
> I would think in the sense that it would take a lot of
> T/R swiching, attenuation to make it useful. If implement
> yes, linrad is a selective voltmeter, power meter or
> spectrum analyzer in the end.
It is actually quite easy. Standard is to switch the preamp to
a dummy load during transmit. You might switch it to a 60 dB
attenuator instead. On the other side of the attenuator a single
relay can switch between forward or reverse on a 30 dB directional
coupler. Safe and sound:-)
> >> Should at the end of the send period in MAP65 the
> >> USB data stream resume?
> >NO. USB should run all the time.
>
> It does on the working machines. Is MAP65 collecting
> streaned data a this point?
I have no idea.
> >> Suppose I did away with the USB SDR I-Q all togheter,
> >>
> >> And change back to the delta44 what should happen
> >> then in this respect ( linrad keeps working during the
> >> send period? I have removed the USB factor now?
> >That should solve the problem. You could also connect
> >a second computer for MAP65.
>
> Here is the network problem again popping up.
> Linrad is streaming data on the network card
> with the right IP ( prove of this is that I can
> transfer files form the linrad "shared" documents
> directory ( windows security stuff ) to the
> "shared" documents directory on the MAP65 computer.
I have no idea whether Windows security stuff will allow the
ports used by Linrad. I also do not know if UDP is handled
differently from other protocols.
> Windows lets one set up a shared directory for John
> at Larse's computer as well as a shared directory
> for Bjorn at Larse's computer, John can not send
> data to Larse's computer except to his dedicated
> shared directory and so on.
>
> That's why I keep on asking about Shared
Well, I have no knowledge at all about these things. I do not think
it is related to the Linrad -> MAP65 problem. I do not think
the protection of disk access from different users is related in
any way to how a firewall blocks data.
> I do not understand why I can't get with the data stream clearly
> present, into MAP65. It HAS to be a network problem or setting.
> The one computer system is working, the only difference is
> 127.0.0.1 vs 169.254.196.84 on another ( protected ? )
> computer.
>
> While writing this I realize all of the sudden that the laptop
> has a firewall! ( new in XP I think vis XP updates )
>
> On the other hand if this is the reason I would have expected
> plenty of questions by other windows users here on the
> reflector "Do have a fire wall on the laptop "
> Just think here on paper.
>
> Will check this later, just one click to turn that off.
I suggest you turn it off at both ends for a test.
This was written by HB9DRI on the list 08/08/17:
Subject: Linrad + MAP65 "How to ...Guide"
STEP 1) Connect your computers into your network and check communication in
both directions, disable windows firewall or create and exception rule into
the firewall, because my network is behind a Firewall I disable the windows
firewall to avoid problems. The MAP65 need to have a static IP address
otherwise you will need to change in the setup of Linrad when the IP address
of the MAP65 host change, prefer use static IP's for both computers.
> I have genuine XP stuff here on these machines and MS will check
> it all the time. With the drive to fight cyberwars etc, they make a
> big efforts to update the OS with security fixes ( almost daily
> via internet updating ) One of these updates is the firewall thing
> some time ago. I know the laptop has it.
There should be plenty of people who know these things.....
> >> Going to put MAP65 I/Q on 3 other XP bench tops
> >> and see what happens in transmit.
> >You mean Linrad + MAP65-IQ ?
>
> Yes in a way, Joe has made Linrad3.05 part of the
> MAP65 I-Q installation.
>
> If one installs MAP65 I-Q linrad is also installed both
> with short cuts.
>
> Ready to go, as on my 2d and 3d computer.,
Yes. I just tested it on the 2.8 GHz P4:-)
> >> In conlusion, I get the impression of being an idiot having
> >> to ask all these questions in the presence of 150 other
> >> users!
> >It does help:-)
> >Your questions have lead to one improvement in the Linrad setup
> >dialogue already. Hopefully there will be someone who will
> >help by writing a suitable introduction to networking for
> >Linrad users to be placed on the Linrad network page....
>
>
> Leif, I have a paper here from an user that should fit as a link on
> your web page. I have suggested him to contact you. I think every-
> thing is in the paper and there would be no need for me to do it.
> Although I am still willing to do it.
>
> The point is also that I did not learn anything new from his text, had
> done every thing right from the beginning. He has a way of creating
> the par_netsend_ip file by starting from a copy of one of the other
> parameter files and than modifying it. I have the strong impression
> from my doings here that that is not needed, do not know really.
This particular trick could be a workaround for the standard settings
of too complicated editors that are difficult to force to produce plain
ascii text files. By loading a plain text file you tell your editor
what type of format (no format at all) to save.
> Also next week I will try to clean up the 25 or so files we generated and
> edit it to a Q&A format. This should make the reading easier.
>
> Next week I will also comment on all your other comments in this message.
> I am running out of time here.
> As nobody else seem to have the problems I have here I would love to give
> you a hand with a possible solution.
I suspect others have had the problem silently. No way of knowing really....
> What keeps me from doing this is really to get a "development" or just
> "test", if you like, machine together. A few years ago I compiled linux
> versions of Linrad, but found it difficult to get everythig linux
> installed so that I could compile and go through the process without
> generating pages with error messages due to missing stuff in the Linux
> installation on the drive.
>
> I imagine that working in Windows is even more trouble as Bill wants
> me to buy the, the MS development software.
Linrad is old-fashioned. You can develop code under Windows as easy as
under Linux. It is actually more difficult to install Windows than to
install Linux on unknown computers that one can recover these days.
A Pentium 3 is fast enough but hard to get running under Windows.
Under Linux the installation of all the drive routines is automatic
nowadays:-)
> Perhaps you can make me suggestions what to do for this if anythisng
To do for what? Presumably you will find that the two computer
solution works perfectly when needless protection is turned off.
(Or configured properly.)
> The SDR hardware is not mine and it would be too much problems to send
> it over anyway, I am aftraid.
It would be pointless. Nothing that you ask about is related to
the SDR hardware. It is a pity that there is no searchable data base
for old mails on this list. Alex wrote exactly what you want to know
one year ago only. The only way to find it (that I know of) is to
list the topics and look for what seems to be relevant.
73
Leif / SM5BSZ
rei...@ix.netcom.com
Hi Leif,
Thanks much for your comments and detailed answers,
Will answer next week. Have a good weekend
73 Rein W6SZ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Leif Asbrink <le...@sm5bsz.com>
>Sent: Jul 24, 2009 6:48 PM
>To: lin...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad MAP65 Communication II
>
>
Joe Taylor
I have read the recent traffic about Rein's attempts to make the
Linrad+MAP65-IQ combination work properly together. It has been a busy
week for me, so I've not had time to respond before today.
First, let me offer a few preliminaries.
Designing and implementing these software packages has required major
efforts for Leif and me -- both Linrad and MAP65 represent many years of
work. Neither of us is a computer expert, nor a professional
programmer. We bring genuine enthusiasm for Amateur Radio and some
relevant technical knowledge from our earlier professional lives to the
problems at hand, but for the most part we must figure out the necessary
computer details by experimentation, trial and error, and lots of
reading. We have both learned enough about "sockets" programming to
implement network communication effectively in Linrad and MAP65, but
neither one of us would claim to be anything close to an authority in
this area. (Obviously I speak mainly for myself here, but I believe
these comments apply to Leif equally well.)
Speaking for myself: I've gone to great effort to make WSJT easy to set
up and use. For most people, program installation is a few mouse
clicks, and configuration is simple as well. However, such a level of
simplicity is not possible for the Linrad+MAP65 combination, mostly
because of the wide range of radio hardware and computer systems on
which they can be used. For example: many different kinds of baseband
converter; sound cards and/or RF A-to-D converters; real or complex
sampling; single- or dual-polarization systems; Windows, Linux, FreeBSD,
Mac OS-X, ... operating systems. Even if we had "documentation
departments" to help write instruction manuals (which of course we
don't), covering all these possibilities would be a huge task.
Therefore, in many cases individual users must invest significant effort
to learn what's needed to make Linrad+MAP65 work with their own
hardware, computer(s), and operating system(s).
Of course it's desirable to have clear instructions available, to help
new users to get these powerful but complicated programs to work. But
the range of computers and OS versions is vast, so detailed instructions
applicable to a particular system are nearly impossible.
In general, if you want to use a computer for these radio-communication
purposes you should configure it in something approaching a "no-frills"
way. Turn off most visial and audio effects; use settings that optimize
performance, rather than appearance; optimize scheduling of Windows
background services; and so on. In general I do not advise using
firewalls, virus scanners, and the like. (If these work for you, and/or
you know what you are doing, fine; but these programs can cause many
hassles -- and there are so many possibilities that you are unlikely to
get any useful help from the likes of Leif or me.)
A few simple cases are relatively easy to deal with. As far as I know,
anyone with an SDR-IQ or SDR-14 can get Linrad+MAP65-IQ running under
Windows with little more effort than required to install and run WSJT.
A few clicks will install both Linrad and MAP65-IQ, with most everything
configured and "ready-to-go".
Systems using two computers and/or different RF hardware are somewhat
more complicated, but nevertheless many people are using Linrad+MAP65 on
them regularly. If you can ping each computer from the other one, and
therefore know their IP addresses, the two-computer network setup is not
difficult.
Now, on to some particular points raised by others.
>> You did not define what you understand uni
> ... I never used the word uni. As seen from within Linrad the
> transmission of data is multicasting. Linrad does not know
> whether there is anyone listening at all or whether many
> computers are receiving the data.
Communication between Linrad and MAP65(-IQ) is one-way, Linrad to MAP65.
Linrad sends UDP packets, and does not care what (if anything) happens
to them. As I understand it, IP addresses in the range 224.0.0.0
through 239.255.255.255 are treated as "multicast" addresses by routers
and the like; packets sent to other addresses (such as that of a
particular target machine, or the "loopback address", 127.0.0.1, for a
single-machine system) are not forwarded to addresses where they were
not intended to be routed.
As far as Linrad is concerned, the only difference between these two
cases is the requested IP address. In MAP65, a slightly different set
of parameters is sent to the system routine "setsockopt" in order to
receive multicast (as opposed to target-machine-directed) packets.
Maybe I was wrong to use the term "unicast" for the latter situation, I
don't really know. The packets are still UDP packets -- as opposed to
TCP packets, which require acknowledgement of receipt, etc.
>> Believe me Leif, I have been told by others that I have been e-mailing with,
>> both settings to use. For the same situation.
> Now you refer to settings in MAP65 and I do not have any
> idea in what way they differ. I hope Joe is reading this and
> can explain to us:-)
MAP65 receives on port 50004, MAP65-IQ on port 50024. (The "base ports"
are 50000 and 50020.) I used different addresses simply because I once
wanted to run both programs simultaneously, on the same computer.
>> Leif, I really want to be positive and creative here. Really.
> I appreciate that - but I can not explain why Joe adopted the terminology
> of uni- and multi-casting.
Maybe this usage is wrong. (See above.) Please, anyone, suggest
something different if you know the correct terminology better than I do.
>> The use of Linrad with MAP65 is at this point a much more important
>> application in amateur cicles I think. There is ton of amateurs on
>> 2 M EME with JT65 these days, virtually around the clock 7 * 24 * 30/(31)
>> They all could use Linrad/MAP and the way people spend effort
>> ( and money ) these days many try to obtain the very best within there means.
>> The nature of EME in a 100 Khz wide band makes finding each other
>> a difficult problem and time consuming problem , it ties in with the
>> hated use of the EME loggers etc etc.
>> MAP65 allows to operate without help from loggers, sked lists, the phone.
>> you name it.
> Yes. I have no idea why there is a problem in the first place. I find
> it hard to believe it is within Linrad or its setup procedures.
>
> It could be the operating system: Visual effects, firewalls, other
> softwares that destroy the latency, whatever.
>
> It could be the network itself. Routers, switches, whatever.
>
> It could also be MAP65.
I agree with all of the above. However, I have not found any reasonable
single-computer or two-computer setup, Windows or Linux, that could not
run Linrad and MAP65 successfully. Yes, sometimes it takes a bit of
messing around to get things configured right.
>> The 512 MB machine runs fine with MAp65, there are no interruptions of the MAP65
>> data stream reception when the WSJT65B send cycle starts. Linrad keeps on sending
>> data it seems and as said it is working. Except for a minor point.
>> It I open a pull down menu in MAP65 the data steam reception of MAP65 stops
>> as in the previous laptop version when MAP goes in "send"
> Visual Effects may cause such problems.
Yes. If pulling a menu down causes an interruption of UDP packets, then
your system is spending *FAR* too much time at doing screen updates at
high priority. I don't know how you may have got it configured in such
a way; but it seems that you are asking for trouble when trying to use
such a computer for tasks with real-time requirements.
With modern computers Linrad runs easily with only modest CPU demands.
MAP65 does its heavy computing while decoding, at the end of an Rx
minute; but it does so at reduced priority, so that real-time CPU needs
are still easily met.
>> The 2d benchtop is just working! During send Linrad keeps working and
>> sending audio to the sound card. it keeps doing this even when MAP65
>> goes into send. WSJT tones and receiver audio are both present.
>> Sound card gets obvious signal from 2 sources. Ansd it is not causing
>> any problems.
It is NOT a good idea to have Linrad sending its audio output to the
sound card used for MAP65 Tx audio. Your Tx audio will then have sounds
and squawks from Linrad superimposed on the Tx tones.
> OK. I do not know much about all the softwares that typically
> run in the background under XP. Having both Linrad and MAP65 on
> a single computer is time critical and unforgiving because of
> the way USB behaves. The problem does not exist under Linux....
In my experience, running Linrad and MAP65 on the same computer works
fine.
>> That's why I keep on asking about Shared
I don't see that shared disk drives have anything to do with Linrad or
MAP65 or the transfer of data from Linrad to MAP65.
...
I hope these comments will be of some use!
-- 73, Joe, K1JT
rad...@attglobal.net
I have been wondering how to properly comment on an interesting thing I
have noticed, this looks like a good time.
First, I thank you both for the untold hours you have put in so that a very
interesting and fun set of programs that you have shared with us.
You have given us a novel and cutting edge set of programs for amateur
radio that allows communications that were not available just a few years
ago.
What causes us, and you, problems is not the 'radio' not
the 'communications' but the computer environment. I learn more and
more about Windows with each problem discussed.
I'm not as far along as most of you, my antenna is still in the box. So I
don't know how I will act when I start to tackle the problems that have
shown up. It is good to know that you both have the patience to try to
talk us though problems with operating systems and compatibility issues.
Thanks again,
John K1VBM
---- Original Message ----
From: Joe Taylor <j...@Princeton.EDU>
To: lin...@googlegroups.com
Cc:
Subject: [Linrad] Re: Linrad MAP65 Communication II
VK2KU
I have been away for a few weeks and am just now catching up on this
forum!
I am much confused by all the networking stuff,
but it seems that I am not alone in this.
One point that struck me as I read through this thread is that Rein
has
commented that he does still have some problems running Linrad/MAP65IQ
even on a single computer. Most of us have had (relatively) little
difficulty
running with a single machine.
Rein listed the specs of his 3 machines with memory 0.5GB, 0.5GB, and
1GB.
I remember Joe once expressing the opinion that 1.5GB was needed to
run
MAP65 and Linrad on a single machine, though MAP65IQ may be less
demanding.
Noone seems to have commented on the amount of RAM Rein has available.
Could this be a factor? I am using 1.5GB in my single machine.
Joe - any comment on memory requirements for Linrad/MAP65IQ?
73 Guy VK2KU
Joe Taylor
VK2KU wrote:
> Noone seems to have commented on the amount of RAM Rein has available.
> Could this be a factor? I am using 1.5GB in my single machine.
> Joe - any comment on memory requirements for Linrad/MAP65IQ?
MAP65-IQ requires something less than 350 MB of memory, and (as
configured in the MAP65-IQ distribution) Linrad uses about 30 MB. Both
programs run OK in my laptop with 0.5 GB installed.
-- 73, Joe, K1JT
VK2KU
Guy