New Line Dance Definitions

[Karen Tripp]

I have read Peter's Article on How to Write a Step Sheet (see Kickit
website, click Articles at the top). He wants to do away with the
term "Point". I use the term "point" when I want to indicate a "Touch
Forward", or "Touch out to side" or "Touch Back", and use "Touch" to
indicate "Touch together". This way, I can cue "Point, Touch, Point,
Step", for example, to indicate "Touch Out, Touch Together, Touch Out,
Step together". Do others use the term "point" at all for that
purpose, or is it just me?

[Joey Prieur]

I use the term point when teaching but not on a step sheet. It is easier to say point front, side, back. I think everyone understands what we mean by point and I will keep using it. I agree with you.

Joey Prieur

[Vivienne Scott]

For me 'point' gives a much better visual image of what I might want in a dance, for example 'point R to right side' indicates the leg is angled straight to the right side with the toe pointed, whereas with touch, the leg could be bent a little.    Any other ideas?   Vivienne

[Donna Laurin]

That makes sense Vivienne.  Use a strut to the side for example: I would touch my foot to the side, leg bent a little, then drop my heel.  I wouldn't point and then drop my heel.  Point indicates to me that the leg is straight as you stated.

 

Donna Laurin

[Bertha Arseneau]

I agree wit all of you !!   Bertha       -------Original Message-------

[Vivienne Scott]

That's a terrific example Donna.   What do others think?   I could always forward a précis of our ideas to Carol's newsletter and to Peter of Kickit.   Do most people know of Carol's newsletter from Florida?    Vivienne

[Joey Prieur]

Very precise and well explained. A point is with leg straight and extended.

Joey

[timothyto1983]

 Absolutely agree with Vivienne.

Tim

[Karen Tripp]

I would definitely like to see someone follow up with Peter at Kickit for sure.  I just wrote up a line dance and I feel stifled by not being able to use the term “point” – to me it has significant interpretation which differentiates it from the Touch family … the concept of the leg being straightened is a good part of the definition (thank you, Donna).

 

We all also use/see “Cross, Point” or “Point, Cross” and it doesn’t leave much to the imagination to figure out that the term “Point” means to “touch away” and if Peter’s purpose is to use fewer words, then I think this is a case in point (pardon the pun) … whereby we can say “Point Side” and everyone knows the implication, but if we stick to using “Touch”, then we are obliged to clarify the definition by using even more words “Touch right to the right side with straight leg” or “Touch right toe to right side” … whereas “Point Right” says it all…

 

Vivienne, you have my vote if you want to bring it up with Peter. Thanks.

 

Karen Tripp

[Vivienne Scott]

I just had a look at Peter's article and I don't agree with his position on 'point'.   I will continue to use that definition in my step sheets.   Peter has also taken out the definition 'pivot', again I will continue to use that definition in my step sheets.    However I did find a lot of the information quite helpful in his article and I would say particularly so when you are first learning to write a step sheet.   I remember thinking it was like learning Latin!!

 

But do remember that Peter is not the sole authority on how to write a step sheet.  I really like the Linedancer magazine format that they use for their published dances.  You can see it on their site by looking up a dance that has already been published in the magazine.  There is also the NTA and the following email was published in Carol's Florida newsletter in response to Peter's note about his definitions.   I have never read their definitions, has anyone else?

 

I personally think the key to writing step sheets is consistency in the way you write them, (people will get used to your style), accuracy -- double, triple and quadruple check your step sheet (this from painful experience!) and simplicity, keep your wording simple with styling tips on the side.  The most important thing is that instructors have to be able to teach from the step sheet and if it takes them forever to understand it, unless you are Scott Blevins!, the chances are that they will set it aside.

 

Any other comments from people?

 

Vivienne

 

 

 

From: Karen Hedges
Subject:  Terminology

NTA(national Teachers Association) is over 30 years old – the only international c/w organization... the NTA has spent time and effort in collecting both the proper names and descriptions (and in many cases the popular names) for terms.. NTA put together manuals and terminology booklets in the past.

The NEW REVISED Terminology Booklet is filled with MANY MORE of the most used terms plus four Appendix pages. NTA volunteers have worked hard to research and standardize proper dance terms for dances. While we respect a choreographers dance description sheets as they have prepared them, we also strive to explain to our students the proper names as well as the proper technique to these dance moves.

This Booklet will assist you in explaining both the proper names and the maybe more popular name. It doesn’t cover every term we know but it includes a great amount of variety.

As of Jan our newly revised Terminology Booklets are for purchase.

The cost through PayPal is $26.50 and includes handling and postage. Visit www.ntadance.com

Karen Hedges 
WWW.DANCINUPASTORM.COM
International Instructor/Choreographer,DJ
NTA Vice President of Events & Website
Dancin Up a Storm Charity Event Director
Ascap,BMI,Sesac Licensed

From: Karen Tripp

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:31 PM

To: line-dan...@googlegroups.com

[Annette]

Totally agree with all you say! 

[Vivienne Scott]

FYI A response from Peter of Kickit on the Florida newsletter with regard to the NTA posting about their terminology book ....  Regardless, I think it worthwhile considering all options but ultimately the way you write your step sheet is your decision.    Vivienne

 

SUBJECT: A Proposed Standard Line Dance Vocabulary
FROM: Peter

 

I can't help but think that the mention of the Terminology book sold by NTA is a response to my proposed method for writing step sheets.

 

These are two different subjects. If the NTA terminology book is a dictionary, then my proposal is "The Elements of Style" by Strunk & White. I am proposing a way to write step sheets, not a list of names for step patterns.

 

I was in NTA for years, took the training, got the certificates, etc. So I appreciate the work that went into the NTA dictionary. But a dictionary is not a style guide. My proposal is a style guide, suggesting a crisp, concise way to write step sheets using a vocabulary of 80 words or less. It is available for download at http://bit.ly/xJ3fi3.

 

From: Karen Tripp

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:31 PM

To: line-dan...@googlegroups.com

[Michele Perron]

Hiya...will copy n paste below two definitions of turns that I use.  I do not use the term "pivot" turn in my dance scripts [as it is not a pivot turn in dance terminology].  Most of the time, we are executing a "break turn".  Perhaps it might be better to use "turn" only?  F.Y.I
So an issue might be that if you use the term "pivot turn" on your dance script, I will understand as something different. SMILES.  So a bit more info for the mix! Michele P

Break Turn:
A change of direction that includes a turn in the opposite direction of the forward foot.
Verbal Call: for eg: "forward Left, Turn Right"
It is frequently mis-labeled at a pivot turn.

Pivot {Turn}:
a half turn in the direction of the forward foot.
Verbal Call: "step forward - step back" as ea step pivots for 1/2 a turn.
Pivot Turn: same movement as a Pivot but does not require a half turn...any degree of turn that is less than a pivot is a pivot turn.

--

Michele Perron
micheleperron.com
https://www.facebook.com/smokeyplaces

[Vivienne Scott]

It's great to hear from you Michele, you have such a extensive dance background covering so many genres.  It's helpful to understand where concepts come from.   You have really got me thinking!  So we're talking about the difference I guess between 'dance' terminology and 'line dance' terminology.   I had a quick look through some step sheets by other choreographers and found for example that John Robinson, Peter Metelnick, Robbie McGowan Hickie and Maggie Gallagher, to name just a few, all use pivot turn to describe the more traditional line dance pivot e.g Step L forward, pivot 1/2 right (weight on right) or something like that!   I think that what has happened is that line dance has taken certain 'dance' terminology and changed it over time to suit its own purposes!   Taking this a little further, if we did want to have a common line dance terminology (and I'm not saying we necessarily do)  I would suggest that we should focus on what terminology is currently and most often used.  I think it would be much easier for this to be accepted by the line dance community as a whole rather than attempting to actually change the terminology.

 

By the way, going back to the 'point' discussion, as far I could see most of the 'big' name choreographers use 'point' in their step sheets.

 

Happy dancin' all!

 

Vivienne

[Karen Tripp]

I have another point of contention with Peter’s revised “how to write a step sheet” article and would like to known how others feel about this.

 

On the subject of Rock-Recovers.

 

He says  “If there is a turn between the two, then it is not called a Rock-Recover. It is a step-turn with a weight change, i.e.

 

1-2 Step right forward, turn ¼ left (weight to left)

Not

1-2 Rock right forward, turn ¼ left and recover to the left

 

Guilty! I have written dances with “Rock, Recover ¼ Right” … and I personally don’t see anything wrong with it.  Otherwise we’d have to change the “symmetry” of a series of steps … where the first section might be Rock Rt Forward, Recover, Back Shuffle, but the reverse with a turn in it can’t be “Rock Back, Recover ¼ Turn right, Side Shuffle”.  He would want that written as follows:

 

Rock right forward, Recover Left, Back Shuffle right-left-right

Step left back, turn ¼ right (weight to right), Side Shuffle left-right-left

 

And yet, that second “Step Back, Turn right and take weight” is supposed to FEEL like a Rock Back, Recover ¼ Right.

 

I think I would interpret the steps differently if it wasn’t a “rocking” action any longer, it would be more ‘mechanical’.  When teaching a sequence like this, it’s easy to explain that the Rock Forward, Recover, Back Shuffle is the first 4 counts, and the OPPOSITE footwork with an added ¼ turn is in the next 4 counts. Dancers can relate to doing something twice and slightly changing the second set of counts. 

 

But if you take ability to use the term “rock” … I don’t know. Seems to me that in trying to “use fewer words” or “standardize”, choreographers are going to run into problems if they can’t express their dance the way they want. I can’t see me writing the second half of my 8 counts saying “Step Left Back (like a rocking action,  Turn ¼ right and step right)” … because even the most inexperienced dancer is going to say, “Why don’t you just say Rock Back, Recover ¼ Right?”

Oh – and I forgot – he wants us to use “chassé” for our shuffles. 

 

Sigh.

 

Karen