Introduction from Jonathan Lister

[jnthnlstr]

Hello,

I just wanted to introduce myself and make a comment on what you're up
to with LimeBits.

My name is Jonathan Lister, I've been a client-side developer at
Osmosoft (osmosoft.com) for 2 years now, and I'm about to leave to
start up by myself.

One the things that has consistently interested me over the past few
years is how far you can go creating systems on the web, without
needing to write code. I'm looking at a quite broad definition of
'systems', from automated workflows to web sites.

I've been thinking about how to make an online development platform
where you can pull in pieces from other people's applications, either
as pre-built plugins or as starting points for your own. I think my
involvement with TiddlyWiki over 2 years has helped me think of
applications as assemblages of chunks of content or programming -
chunks which you can import from other applications. One TiddlyWiki is
capable of browsing the tiddlers of another TiddlyWiki and choosing
which to import. I like this model for sharing.

I get the feeling that the key to collaborative web application
development making it easy to share the elements that are shareable.
With TiddlyWiki, this has meant standardising on a common format for
chunks - the tiddler - where each chunk has a title, text and tags,
along with optional metadata fields. This means that each tiddler,
whether it is a block of content, a plugin, a stylesheet or anything
else, is manipulated through the same API.

The next thing I think is really interesting in this area is the
choice of JavaScript as the sole development language. I am very much
a supporter of this choice, since I think that server-side
applications should be created by other people, be generic and expose
interfaces for me to work with them. They should also do a single
thing, such as store data, perform a calculation, process text, send
emails, move data around, schedule tasks, etc.

The use of server-side JavaScript in services like AppJet (and Jaxer)
has extended the abilities of client-side people to the setting up of
web services, which is fantastic. I prefer the approach of AppJet
which, due to the constraints of its simple interface, encourage your
web services to be simple and do as little as possible. As implied, I
think this is a good principle to follow.

I'd be interested to know what is at the top of your priority list and
what challenges you're facing. I'm also interested to know how you
plan to make money from LimeBits - I always presumed a hosted service
paid for by subscriptions would work quite well here.

Lastly, as I've just remembered, I have to commend your work with
WebDAV and the recognition that local storage is a useful thing.



J.

[Jonathan A. Marshall]

Jonathan,

Thanks for introducing yourself and commenting on LimeBits.

Your interests align well with ours.  I like your credo -- smart clients, dumb servers, mashups, html/css/javascript, and offline web apps.

We too are interested in web-assembled systems.  Yahoo Pipes is a good start (and would be even cooler if released open-source and distributed widely).  Developers have used LimeBits to wrap and assemble web services like Vimeo, Facebook, eVite, and Yahoo Finance.

LimeBits is starting with client-side apps, but we recognize that some apps also need a touch of server-side code (e.g., for data validation).  We envision adding a minimal server-side JavaScript facility for those special cases.  The architecture differs from AppJet and Jaxer.

We like TiddlyWiki.  We're wondering how to meld its single-file architecture with LimeBits's file-versioning features.  Adding a plugin or modifying a single tiddler causes the entire file to be treated as a new version.  It might be desirable to represent somehow the change as occurring only in a particular chunk, while the rest of the file is represented as remaining unchanged.

I agree with you about the expanding role of JavaScript.  Case in point, JavaScript possibly replacing XUL: http://groups.google.com/group/limebits/browse_thread/thread/d9790368539e6c5a

I'm finishing up a white paper that probably answers some of your questions.  I'll send you the current draft; the final version should be posted on limebits.com in a week or two.  Please let us know your further thoughts?

Best wishes,
--Jonathan