Artnet, GrandMA onPC, GrandMA 3d

[Richard Tabor]

Hey LightJammers. 

I have a problem that I can't seem to solve. I've bothered Mat enough and hoped some of the Hive mind could be of service. Here's what I'm looking to accomplish. I want the Artnet output from LightJams to be seen by GrandMA onPC and therefore by GrandMA 3d. I think after that, I can handle it.

Here's my setup.

PC1: GrandMA on PC with both wings. DMX universes 11-16 patched with an LED wall. Artnet input, Artnet output activated. Setup-> Network -> Network Protocols -> Artnet: valid input and output of Artnet with local starts of 1 with 50 universes, external starts 0. IP: 169.168.155.34.

PC2: LightJams, Artnet universes 10-15 patched with LED wall. DMX out, Music, Processor, Trial all "Green" IPs: 2.168.155.33, 169.168.155.33. Artnet broadcast to 2.255.255.255. 

Here's some interesting symptoms. If I open LJ first, and then MA onPC, LJ sees PC1 as an Artnet node with an IP of 2.168.155.34. It also has "LightJams up and running!" in the artnet area as well. If I open onPC first, LJ doesn't have anything in the Artnet nodes section of configuration. I know the two systems are talking. I have MA onPC DMX control of, for example, master intensity and master speed. I have a video loop playing in LJ with levels for intensity, hue, and saturation dancing all over the place. When I open monitor, while the video is the wrong color, it's still moving and dancing like it should be. The problem is, onPC doesn't see what LJ is doing. 

The reason I need this is to sell clients on content and movers and an overall package in a virtual world without having to set up the whole thing in real life.

Any input I am will be appreciated. As soon as this gets solved, I'll be buying it and be a full member. But I need it solved first.

Sincerely,

Richard

[Jason Kyle]

From a command prompt run "ipconfig /all" on PC1 and PC2 then paste output here. Slightly confused as to why you're running 2 IP's in this setup and if it's over multiple physical interfaces however ipconfig info will help.
Also I believe there's a need to license MA onPC via a piece of MA hardware in order for it to work. If you have no MA hardware then it's probably not going to work.

[Mathieu]

Hi Richard, 

The MA on PC, since its address is 169.168.155.24, will not receive broadcast from 2.255.255.255. Lightjams needs to broadcast to 169.255.255.255. Why the Lightjams PC has 2 IPs? If the MA on PC can send dmx to Lightjams via the 169.x.x.x address, maybe you should also send dmx from Lightjams to the MA on PC with this network interface? As I understand, the selected network interface for artnet output in Lightjams is 2.x.x.x... 

In Lightjams, you can try manually adding a node with the IP address of PC1 (169.168.155.24) and register the universes you want to send to the GrandMA on PC. This way, Lightjams will send artnet directly to this address. 

Can you attach a screenshot of the Lightjams artnet config panel?

Mathieu

[Richard Tabor]

Hi Mathieu,

I was trying to avoid using your brain power here but I appreciate the response. The reason for the two IPs (since everyone is so curious) is that LJ -> onPC didn't (and still doesn't) speak in that direction with the 169.x.x.x IP as an output. Artnet uses 2.x.x.x and 10.x.x.x, and I saw that adding one such address worked in a different context for someone with different software and circumstances, so I thought I would give it a try.

Attached, you'll find the requested screen shot.

@Jason: I can attach that if you wish, but even getting rid of the second IP address hasn't helped anything.

I'm at a loss. onPC->LJ is fine. LJ->onPC: no dice.

Thoughts?

[Richard Tabor]

Oh. And Jason, I have both wings. The command wing and the fader wing. But 3d will happily visualize anything it gets information on. The question would be real world output. And in this case, my movers and conventional would be handled by the onPC system and the media wall would be controlled by onPC, but driven by LightJams. Does that help clarify things?

[Mathieu]

Hi Richard,

Right now, Lightjams sends and receives the same universes. This is risky if it's not intended!

For the node manually added, add the subnet:universes you want Lightjams to send to it. Right now, it's doing nothing. So edit the node and enter the subnet:universe values, click add, then do it for each universe. This way, Lightjams will send artnet directly to the MA on PC instead of broadcasting.

[Richard Tabor]

I did. Still nothing.

[Richard Tabor]

This is what I have now. Before anyone panics, the Input greens are flashing...if that means anything. I'm controlling LJ with DMX universe 1 from onPC.

[Mathieu]

You say the onPC is sending universe 1. Then what is sending the other 15 universes?

To avoid problems, the onPC should send using different universes than Lightjams. To be sure, what universes have you added for the unicast subscription when editing the node?

[Mathieu]

Also, from the broadcast address, the subnet mask for your network adapter is set to 255.255.0.0. Usually, it is 255.255.255.0. Is this intended?  

Make sure you are able to ping the onPC from the Lightjams computer.

[Richard Tabor]

This is starting to sound like a patch issue.

Here's what I have patched, like I said in the first message. OnPC DMX universes 11-16 bunch of RGB fixtures as an LED wall (it's gotta know what to listen to, right?) DMX universe 1: 24 channels of "Dimmers" as test control for LightJams. I think I'm sensing the problem here, and it was detailed in my initial posting. I've told onPC to have an input AND output Artnet starting at 1 and having 50 of universes of control. I think that's why LJ thinks there is blinking stuff going on.

LightJams. Artnet universes 0:10-15 patched as LED wall.

No, the subent mask was not intentional. That was the automatic response when I told LJ to broadcast to the 169.x.x.x IP.

Proposed solution: I need to tell my output from onPC to just be, for example, universe 1 as my control for LJ. The input I need to tell it to listen to, for example, Artnet 2:1 and convert that to DMX universe 11. Does that sounds right to you? Like I said, this is sounding like a patch issue. I'll start putzing.

[Mathieu]

First, make sure the subnet masks are the same on both computers (255.255.255.0). Otherwise, the network can have all sorts of problems. See this to know how to change it: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-ca/windows/change-tcp-ip-settings#1TC=windows-7

To test, use a different universe for the onPC and Lightjams. For example, try sending 1 dmx value:

onPC sending to subnet 0, universe 1

Lightjams sending to subnet 0, universe 2

Lightjams should receive only subnet 0, universe 1 (only 1 input led green). And only 1 output led should be green, the one corresponding to universe 2.

Mathieu

[Richard Tabor]

 - They were both 255.255.0.0, now they are both changed to 255.255.255.0. No difference in outcome.

 - I can in fact ping from LJ->onPC. Nothing lost.

 - ArtNetominator doesn't see any output from LJ artnet, but all my fixtures are patched into artnet (starting at 0:10->0:15).

 - LJ is for sure listening to onPC. onPC and Artnetnominator are not seeing Artnet output from LJ.

 - Test ran. Same outcome.

I'm attaching patch, new configuration (again, input is blinking), and ArtNetominator.

I'm still at a loss. I appreciate all your attention. It really should not be this hard, but it seems like I have rotten luck.

[Mathieu]

This is easy to get lost when there are so many details. If unicast is still enabled, artnetoninator can't see anything. 

The test you can do is to remove the manual nodes you've added. Then select the 127.0.0.1 network interface for output in Lightjams and the 127.0.0.1 network interface in the artnetominator. Then you should see something.

[Mathieu]

Ok. Let's start from the beginning.

- Install artnetominator on the computer running the GrandMA on PC.

- Start Lightjams on the other computer with your project file sending artnet

- Make sure there's artnet output activity in Lightjams 

- Make sure GrandMA on PC isn't running

Does the artnetomnitor see something?

If no:

- Make sure the artnet unicast is off in Lightjams by removing all manually added artnet nodes

- Make sure the same network interface is selected on Lightjams and artnetominator

- *** Make sure firewalls are off on both computers ***

- Make sure network subnet masks are the same on both computers (you've already checked this)

Still doesn't get anything?

- Install wireshark on the GrandMA computer (https://www.wireshark.org/download.html) and check whether you're receiving artnet packets

If nothing is coming in wireshark:

- Install wireshark on the same computer as Lightjams and check whether Lightjams is sending artnet packets

[Richard Tabor]

Mathieu,

Thank you again for all your time, effort, and attention. 

I only needed to go as far as installing ArtNetominator and tell it to listen to the right adapter. Even with Firewall on, there's Artnet data flowing from 169.168.155.33 (LJ PC) and the DMX info dances just like it's supposed to with the content being run on LJpc.

However, I still turned off firewall on both computers. OnPC was not running and was not started for this test until...now.

I fired up OnPC and the ArtNetominator on that same pc picked up the OnPC ArtNet node. Like before, the single universe I ouput through ArtNet from OnPC as control works on the LJpc side and that universe flashes on both LJpc and OnPCpc via ArtNetominator. Both ArtNetominator see steady green ArtNet for universes 10->15 and no others (no other universes are patched in LJ and no other universes are steady or flashing green).

That's my status as of now. No firewall. Artnet is flowing to and from both PCs. I can't get OnPC to register said ArtNet. Oh. Manual LJ node has been deleted.

[Mathieu]

Ok, so there's some config problem with the GrandMA on PC. Can you post your GrandMA artnet input config? Or you can try contacting the GrandMA support.

[Igor Ebner]

For my setup, i run successfully with artnet, if i configure this way:

The PC with grandma will get 2 IP addresses:

IP 1: For Grand MA Session / MA-net / 3D
IP Number: 192.168.0.100
Mask: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1 (my FritzBox)

IP 2: For artnet
IP Number: 2.2.2.100
Mask: 255.0.0.0
Gateway: empty

Ive started the onPC Session with IP 192.x.x.x
Artnet will be sent and received automatically with IP 2.x.x.x - nothing needs to be re-configured.

My MA  2port-Node has IP 192.168.0.102 - because it needs to listen to 192.168.1.100 only (MA-Net).
My external PC with MA 3D has IP 192.168.0.101 - because it needs to listen to MA-Net only.
My external PC with LightJams has IP 2.2.2.101 - because it needs to listen and send to the IP 2.2.2.100 only (with ArtNet).

Please be aware of this, that a lot of ArtNet nodes are able to send broadcasts within the first 8 universes only. So if you want to send universe 9,10,11 and so on, then you need to declare a specific target for them.

[Jason Kyle]

I would highly recommend keeping all your Art-Net/MA-Net traffic on 1 subnet. Sometimes lighting software isn't too happy with multiple interfaces/IP's and in the case of M-PC it just doesn't work properly unless there's only 1 IP in the 2.x.x.x range. Unsure if MA onPC is fussy like that but will repeat that you should really stick with just 1 subnet only. In your setup I can see zero reason why you'd need to separate the traffic?

About Art-Net nodes only being able to send broadcasts to first 8 univerese only. Some hardware nodes just can't keep up with a huge amount of broadcast traffic but 8 is a pretty low limit and for your reference DMXking hardware will handle up 40 universes broadcast at 40fps. Which hardware are you aware of that's capped at 8?
Also broadcast artnet really is a relic and shouldn't be used. That said I know of a high profile media server manufacturer that is only just starting to support unicast now and they spew out 200+ universes broadcast which very few nodes can keep up with. In your application both MA and LJ support unicast and you shouldn't need to even configure IP addresses in these programs because they'll support Art-Net discovery which takes care of all that.

IMO you'd be better off ditching MA-Net and sticking to standard open protocols. Can you flick the MA-Net node into Art-Net mode or something?

[Richard Tabor]

Thanks Igor. I think you're understanding what I'm trying to do. I'll work on it right now!

[Richard Tabor]

OMG! OMG!! OMG!!! It works!!!!

The key, in case anyone is having trouble with this in the future, is adding an IP address in the 2.x.x.x range to BOTH the LJ pc and the onPC pc. Prolly important to keep the subnet masks separate just as Igor suggested.

(The following setup assumes you have a network switch you're already connected to and either windows 7 or Windows 8).

With MA onPC pc
1. To add an IP, right click on your WiFi adapter in the lower right. (Or you can navigate to "Nework and Sharing Center" in whatever manner you wish)

2. "Open Network and Sharing Center".

3. Left click the "Ethernet" or "Local Area Connection". "Properties".

4. Scroll down to "Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4)". Click.

5. Select properties to the lower right outside of the list box.

6. Set a static IP in whatever range you need to (usually a 192.x.x.y range, but in my case for whatever reason, it was a 167.x.x.y...use whatever you prefer). Set the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0.

7. Click advanced in the lower right. Under IP addresses, click "add". Make this IP 2.2.2.100 (keep in mind, this is the onPC pc here). Subnet mask 255.0.0.0.

8. CLICK OK!

9. CLICK OK AGAIN!!

10. Then you can close the properties window.

11. Then you can close the status.

LJ pc

Repeat 1-5. Instead of the IP in step 6 above, make this IP 2.2.2.101 and the subnet mask 255.0.0.0.

Save and escape.

Now...now they will talk!

Igor, Mathieu, thank you so much for your time and energy. The key, for whatever reason, was the 2.2.2.y,z range on BOTH computers.

Incidentally, if on onPC you add another in the 192 or 169 range with matching subnet mask, you can run MA3d on the same computer as onPC.

***PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THIS WAS FOR VISUALIZATION! THIS WAS NOT FOR REAL LIFE PLAYBACK AND I CANNOT SPEAK TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS SET UP WOULD "JUST WORK" FOR REAL ARTNET NODES***

Jason, unfortunately, plug and play just didn't work for me trying to get 2-way communication between LJ pc and onPC pc.

I can finally start playing with this thing in a visualizer. Whew!! Purchase imminent.

Thanks again to everyone.

Richard