Newbie (need directions)

[masterdeeno]

I’m new and stumbled when researching for a software to control my DMX light fixtures. I tried searching thru the website, but I’m a bit lost and your directions would help a lot.

1) I’ve read that I don’t necessarily need the “LJ Music App“, but I can instead hook my DJ controller (RCA jack output) to connect to my other PC with lightjams installed (using the auxiliary input). Is this accurate?

2) From PC with LJ, I will need a USB to DMX converter. I noticed that there are only two products — Enttec and DmxKing. Is this still the case? I have 3-pin DMX fixtures and so not sure what’s the best approach.

3) For DMX fixtures, I have variety. Some support 23 channels and some as low as 7 channels. Is this going to be a problem, or this is irrelevant as LJ can control each fixture using the same USB-to-DMX interface?

4) Is there a limit as far as how many fixtures can be cascades thru the same USB-to-DMX? I’m planning at doing something like:

dj controller - rca/stereo jack - pc+LJ - Enttec/DmXKing - 23ch fixture - 16ch fixture - 7ch fixture - dmx controller+ledstrips

I appreciate the clarification. Thank you in advance!

[Robin Larsson]

Welcome to the world of Lightjams :)

1) Yes, you can use a line input on your computer to get sound to Lightjams, rather straighforward actually. The soundcard(s) and things like microphones will show up in the Configuration/Music tab in LJ. I´ve even had pretty good results with built in microphone in my Thinkpads, you are after all only doing beat detection and leveldetection, not recording. But, whenever its possible, I use the soundcards in for example my Pioneer DJM mixers or for that matter, the soundcard in the live-sound boards we have, it all depends on the setup for the specific event. 

2) I usually recommend the DMXking UltraDMX micro as a good starting point, much better than the Enttec Open for about the same price, and cheaper than the Enttec Pro. For us, the UltraDMX Micros have been rocksolid during many many gigs. The other option is Artnet/sACN nodes, but it doesnt seem like you will need more than one universe soon, so I´d say start out with the UltraDMX Micro from DMXking.

3) No problem at all running different types of fixtures, it all runs on the same universe/USB-DMX interface. You just need to use correct Fixtureprofiles in Lightjams, and that basically tells it what values it should send where. One DMX universe is 512 channels, and each fixtures just listens to the channels it has been adressed to. You set a start adress in the Patch in LJ and set the fixture to the same adress, and then it basically just works :) LJ wont let you overlap channels, so start by making the Patch, then adress your fixtures accordingly. 

There are a number of Fixtureprofiles in LJ, but if the lights you own isnt in the list, its very easy to create your own Fixtureprofile, Mat from LJ just recently put up a great video about how to do it.

4) Yes, there is a limit, the DMX Standard says max 32 fixtures on a single branch/line, if you use DMX splitters you can do 32 fixtures on each output from the splitter. But, you do of course also have the channelcount limit, 512 channels on one Universe, so if you run say 10 fixtures that require 48channels each, you are using up 480channels and only have 32 channels left, so will be hard to max out the number of fixtures. The 32 fixtures limit isnt a hard physical limit reallly, it will most likely work fine with 33-34 fixtures as well, but the risk of signalproblems will increase and at some point it will stop working properly, so dont go over 32 channels. 
Worth thinking about is that it does not matter at all which order the fixtures are connected in, the adresses doesnt affect that either. Dont use Y-split cables to split DMX, if you need to split the signal, use a DMX splitter, they are not expensive and can be real problemsolvers. Make sure you use proper DMX cable (doesnt matter if its 3 or 5pin, just make sure its DMX cable and not Microphone cables) that will save you headaches :) 
As a general rule, if I need to power my fixtures from more than one phase, I always use an opto-splitter to split the DMX into different lines, one for each power phase. Its not always neccesary, but its saves on ground-loop problems and similar, and has served me very well for years. 
You mention a dmx controller as the last thing in your line, I suppose that is a controller for your LED strips, and not something that sends DMX to control other stuff? You can only have one thing (such as LJ) sending DMX on a line, otherwise things will not really work. It is of course possible to merge DMX streams from multiple outputs from interfaces and consoles, but you need a DMX Merger unit of that (or do it in Artnet/sACN with the help of a Node that supports merging, most do these days). But, Merging and such is probably not something to even consider when starting out with DMX lighting :) 


Sorry if I went a bit basic on some stuff, but I feel its better to be too basic than expecting people to know things that they may not :) 

[masterdeeno]

Thank you Robin for giving me confidence to do this.  I’ll start purchasing DMXKing and move on from there.  I really appreciate the clarifications.

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[Robin Larsson]

You´re welcome Masterdeeno! 

Sounds like a good plan! And also, get yourself atleast one DMX terminator, they are cheap to buy, or to make. Its just a 110-120ohm 1/4W resistor soldered between Pin 2 and 3 on a 3pin XLR, I make my own and have probably 10-20 at this point, but I do use splitters quite a lot. Terminators should always be used, but you do get away without one if the cablerun is only a few tens of meters usually, but just like opto-isolated splitters, terminators can be a lifesaver and problemsolver at the cost of a few euros.

When it comes time to get yourself a splitter, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Cameo SB 6 T RDM splitter, give you 6 isolated outputs, 1 link "output", powercon in and out, and both 3 and 5pin XLR in and out on all ports, can be both rackmounted and trussmounted :) But, the Enttec D-Split works just fine as well for example, but only comes with either just 5pin ports or 5pin in, 2x 5pin + 2x 3pin out. I´ve modified the ones we have to have just 3pin both in and out, but I cant recommend that mod. Also, the plexiglas endpanels on the Enttex D-split breaks very easily if you use it in a mobile setup, I´ve changed mine to aluminium :P

DMX isnt allt that hard when you follow the basic "rules" and understand some of the basics of how it works, its a very robust protocol.

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 12:11:36 UTC+1 skrev masterdeeno:

Thank you Robin for giving me confidence to do this.  I’ll start purchasing DMXKing and move on from there.  I really appreciate the clarifications.

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[masterdeeno]

I just placed an order via dmxsalespro as the macro was about $10 cheaper there compared to Amazon.  That said, I’m now planning on building the “config file” while waiting for it to arrive.  

Since LJ website has a lot of information.  Is it safe to say that I should start under the “Music” tab since my app is mainly focused on lighting via music as input?  I noticed there are sections for pixelmapping, artnet, midi, ipad, etc.

I’m also assuming LJ is best suited for wired DMXs and to stay away from wireless DMXs, correct?

(PS. I’ll consider getting the terminators too.)

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[Mathieu]

Thanks Robin for the great info! 

>>  Is it safe to say that I should start under the “Music” tab since my app is mainly focused on lighting via music as input?

Yes. If I understand correctly, you want to use the real-time audio analysis. Be sure to look at the video tutorials to understand the basics of Lightjams and then look at the basic project and then the sample projects about music2light: https://www.lightjams.com/tutorial.html

>> I’m also assuming LJ is best suited for wired DMXs and to stay away from wireless DMXs, correct?

Lightjams has no preferences. You can decide to use a wireless DMX system if this suits you. You can also use a wifi to transmit DMX over the network using the ArtNet or sACN protocol (you then need a ArtNet/sACN node instead of a USB to DMX interface). You just need to be aware of the limitations of a wireless system VS a wired one. For example, don't expect to transmit 100's of DMX universes over a wifi. But it can certainly work for a few universes.

[masterdeeno]

Thank you Mathieu!

Is there a tutorial with audio/vocals?  I’m getting lost looking at the visuals (eg mouse clicks and illustrations), while needing to read for the explanations/instructions in the caption.  Just trying to figure out what’s the technique most of you did in order to follow the instructions effectively.

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[Robin Larsson]

You´re most welcome Mat :) 

Regarding limitations running DMX over wifi, I´ve just done a few test for the fun of it, with my DMXKing eDMX4 DIN interface connected through a Nowsonic Stage Router, and the only real difference I noted between running an ethernet cable to the laptop running LJ to the router and connecting via Wifi to the router was a bit more "lag", but really only noticable on very fast strobing effects, other than that it felt stable and responsive, but I havent really even considered running gigs that way unless its really hard to run a dmx or ethernet cable to the stage. But as Mat says, it should work very well for a few universes, perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even? 
But, if you want to run wireless DMX over a bit larger distances and with a big crowd, it may be worth checking out dedicate wireless DMX systems such as W-DMX from Wireless Solutions Sweden or CRMX from Lumen Radio. They run 2,4 and 5,8GHz systems just like Wifi, but afaik its not ethernet based on a protocol level and they have good antennas and good frequency hopping. Seems like both brands are pretty well trusted by the top pro´s, and more and more fixtures are coming out with either system built in.

Still, wireless systems are always more sensitive and create more latency than wired ones.

Saying that though, a few weeks ago I ran sound and light for an EDM event with around 500 guest, we had FOH about 12-14m from the stage. I ran our A&H Qu-pac as main audio mixer up behind the stage, maybe 20m from the FOH desk, and controlled it with an Ipad connected via wifi to the router mounted in the same case as the mixer, next to the amps. Not a single connection issue the whole night, but mostly monitored things and only the occasional adjument to levels. 
We did run a Cat5 cable from the laptop running Lightjams at FOH to the artnet node behind the stage, but could probably have just run dmx via the same wifi router as the audio. But when you have to run a powercable across the dancefloor and put out cable protectors (Defender Nano in my case), I will just rather run a Cat5 cable as well :) 

I could see a good case for running one switch/router at FOH and one on the stage, and let the one at FOH do wifi for ipads and such, run both network audio and dmx over those switches and preferably run 2 separate Cat5 cables between the switches for redudancy. Preferably set up with a separate VLAN for each protocol, there are a few units on the market that seems to do this very well these days :) 

[masterdeeno]

This is all great, but I’m still wrapping my head around the first steps lol

Did you all start at adding generic RGB fixture when you started using LJ or did you guys jump immediately to whatever fixture brand you have?  I tried adding Chauvet Gigbar and I got lost because it has 23 channels that control not just the hue+saturation+intensity attributes, but also rotation, strobing and more.  lol  Made me question what the grid is about.  I know it said it’s a canvas, but not so sure now if it meant simply like a painting canvas (eg desktop or notepad) or if it has relevance to space canvas (like dance floor, stage or any room being lit).

For China-made heads, what fixture should I be using?  I don’t see generic moving head in the list, so  I thought I’d ask.

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[sightsoundcookeville .]

I usually ignore all of the strobe and dimmer functions of fixtures and just set those at fixed values where everything is open. HSI (in the form of RGB, RGBW or whatever to the fixture) is all that matters. If you want a strobe, make a pulse wave on the intensity grid. If you do it that way, all fixtures are treated the same so you'll never have to adjust a strobe or maco channel for a new fixture, should you be somewhere that has fixtures to take over.

Last weekend I did a party with hardwire DMX, 2.4g wireless DMX and sACN over wifi all working together. A word of caution from a guy who makes strobes on intensity grid, 2.4g wireless DMX has a tiny bit of latency, only noticeable next to a hardwire fixture. sACN over wifi kept up well to the hardwire.

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[Robin Larsson]

Sorry for going a bit off topic!

I personally started directly by making fixtureprofiles for all the actual lights I have, but had run some of them with other DMX software and simple consoles before getting onboard with Lightjams. That said, I have gone back and changed some fixtureprofiles after getting to know how I want to run things with Lightjams, and also, Lightjams have changed a fair bit since I started using it (Mat gives us constant upgrades after all, Thank you for that Mat!).

The only time I would use generic RGB fixtures would be if I was using some fixtures that really only had single set of RGB channels, but even then I would probably create a new profile for the specific light with the correct name/model to keep things in order :) 

It really is quite easy to create fixtureprofiles in Lightjams, even for complex fixtures. Just grab the manual and add in the channels in the correct order :) If there is a Dimmer channel, use the Dimmer attribute and so on, make sure to select 16bit mode and the correct order when needed. For things like Strobe channels on LED fixtures, I use the Effect attribute and rename it Strobe (Mat, any chance we could get a Strobe attribute btw?), and for things like Macros and such, I usually use Fixed value and set a value to disable the macros. On the off chance that there are Macros or other such functions you really want to use, use Effect and put in presets. 
Havent done a profile for something like the Gigbar, but I would just add in more than one set of RGB channels and such, that works perfectly. If you send me a link to the manual of the version of the Gigbar you have, I could help you make a fixtureprofile for it if you want :) 

Same goes for China-Moving Heads, Moving heads are not generic enough to be able to use generic profiles, so you need to create your own. If you are missing a manual or the manual is typical Chinese sh*t, you may have to patch a bunch of Generic Dimmers, one for each channel the Moving Head uses, put them all on a grid and just test out what each channel does, write that down and do your Fixtureprofile from that. 

The Grids can have a relevance to the space you are rigging in, but they dont have to :) They are simply where you do your programming, for some things its easier to put the attributes in a similar order to how things are rigged in the real world, sometimes its not, so it depends.

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 17:37:47 UTC+1 skrev masterdeeno:

This is all great, but I’m still wrapping my head around the first steps lol

Did you all start at adding generic RGB fixture when you started using LJ or did you guys jump immediately to whatever fixture brand you have?  I tried adding Chauvet Gigbar and I got lost because it has 23 channels that control not just the hue+saturation+intensity attributes, but also rotation, strobing and more.  lol  Made me question what the grid is about.  I know it said it’s a canvas, but not so sure now if it meant simply like a painting canvas (eg desktop or notepad) or if it has relevance to space canvas (like dance floor, stage or any room being lit).

For China-made heads, what fixture should I be using?  I don’t see generic moving head in the list, so  I thought I’d ask.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 10:52 AM Robin Larsson <robin....@gmail.com> wrote:

You´re most welcome Mat :) 

Regarding limitations running DMX over wifi, I´ve just done a few test for the fun of it, with my DMXKing eDMX4 DIN interface connected through a Nowsonic Stage Router, and the only real difference I noted between running an ethernet cable to the laptop running LJ to the router and connecting via Wifi to the router was a bit more "lag", but really only noticable on very fast strobing effects, other than that it felt stable and responsive, but I havent really even considered running gigs that way unless its really hard to run a dmx or ethernet cable to the stage. But as Mat says, it should work very well for a few universes, perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even? 
But, if you want to run wireless DMX over a bit larger distances and with a big crowd, it may be worth checking out dedicate wireless DMX systems such as W-DMX from Wireless Solutions Sweden or CRMX from Lumen Radio. They run 2,4 and 5,8GHz systems just like Wifi, but afaik its not ethernet based on a protocol level and they have good antennas and good frequency hopping. Seems like both brands are pretty well trusted by the top pro´s, and more and more fixtures are coming out with either system built in.

Still, wireless systems are always more sensitive and create more latency than wired ones.

Saying that though, a few weeks ago I ran sound and light for an EDM event with around 500 guest, we had FOH about 12-14m from the stage. I ran our A&H Qu-pac as main audio mixer up behind the stage, maybe 20m from the FOH desk, and controlled it with an Ipad connected via wifi to the router mounted in the same case as the mixer, next to the amps. Not a single connection issue the whole night, but mostly monitored things and only the occasional adjument to levels. 
We did run a Cat5 cable from the laptop running Lightjams at FOH to the artnet node behind the stage, but could probably have just run dmx via the same wifi router as the audio. But when you have to run a powercable across the dancefloor and put out cable protectors (Defender Nano in my case), I will just rather run a Cat5 cable as well :) 

I could see a good case for running one switch/router at FOH and one on the stage, and let the one at FOH do wifi for ipads and such, run both network audio and dmx over those switches and preferably run 2 separate Cat5 cables between the switches for redudancy. Preferably set up with a separate VLAN for each protocol, there are a few units on the market that seems to do this very well these days :) 

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 14:52:33 UTC+1 skrev Mathieu:

Thanks Robin for the great info! 

>>  Is it safe to say that I should start under the “Music” tab since my app is mainly focused on lighting via music as input?

Yes. If I understand correctly, you want to use the real-time audio analysis. Be sure to look at the video tutorials to understand the basics of Lightjams and then look at the basic project and then the sample projects about music2light: https://www.lightjams.com/tutorial.html

>> I’m also assuming LJ is best suited for wired DMXs and to stay away from wireless DMXs, correct?

Lightjams has no preferences. You can decide to use a wireless DMX system if this suits you. You can also use a wifi to transmit DMX over the network using the ArtNet or sACN protocol (you then need a ArtNet/sACN node instead of a USB to DMX interface). You just need to be aware of the limitations of a wireless system VS a wired one. For example, don't expect to transmit 100's of DMX universes over a wifi. But it can certainly work for a few universes.

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[Robin Larsson]

Yes, doing strobes on intensity works well for many things, but atleast I and all my friends using Lightjams still have problems with the "strobe-lag" issue that have been discussed here before, so I tend to use Strobe channels on fixtures that I know I´m going to want to strobe a lot. However, using fixture strobe opens up a different type of sync issue, especially cheap fixtures will strobe at slightly different rates, mostly noticable on medium to slow strobe speeds which makes them all go out of sync. 
Using fixture strobe also give a very quick and easy way to get a strobe over-ride for a group of fixtures, great for busking :) And, I´ve never really been able to get LED fixtures to strobe quite as nicely with Lightjams generated strobes as some of them do on their own, but I´m a bit of a strobe freak so :P 

When it comes to Dimmer, with the way I run things, It can be nice to have dimmer channels, since it lets you do completly separated effects for color and intensity and still being able to use full white. That is probably the thing I dislike the most about Lightjams, I havent found a good way to program intensity effects separate from color and being able to use full white :( I would love it if there could be an option to create a virtual dimmer channel for each set of RGB/RGBW, that doesnt change the colorhue when changing the brightness. Intensity in Lightjams does almost that, but doesnt let you use white. Bringing saturation down to 0 while keeping Intensity at 50% gets you white, but not full power.

So, depending on how you program and run things, there is value to using Dimmerchannels, but there is a lot of advatages to just doing it like sightsoundcookeville suggest and locking of Dimmer att 100% and Strobe at Open.

Sightsoundcookeville, nice to hear that it worked so well for you with mixed connections :D Btw, have you ever experienced the "strobe-lag" thing? Only happens on rather fast strobes, and even when doing it across multiple sACN universes and around 200 RGB pixels, things stay perfectly in sync even when lagging.  Perhaps that is best left to a different thread though :D

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 17:59:28 UTC+1 skrev sightsoundcookeville:

I usually ignore all of the strobe and dimmer functions of fixtures and just set those at fixed values where everything is open. HSI (in the form of RGB, RGBW or whatever to the fixture) is all that matters. If you want a strobe, make a pulse wave on the intensity grid. If you do it that way, all fixtures are treated the same so you'll never have to adjust a strobe or maco channel for a new fixture, should you be somewhere that has fixtures to take over.

Last weekend I did a party with hardwire DMX, 2.4g wireless DMX and sACN over wifi all working together. A word of caution from a guy who makes strobes on intensity grid, 2.4g wireless DMX has a tiny bit of latency, only noticeable next to a hardwire fixture. sACN over wifi kept up well to the hardwire.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 10:37 AM masterdeeno <maste...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is all great, but I’m still wrapping my head around the first steps lol

Did you all start at adding generic RGB fixture when you started using LJ or did you guys jump immediately to whatever fixture brand you have?  I tried adding Chauvet Gigbar and I got lost because it has 23 channels that control not just the hue+saturation+intensity attributes, but also rotation, strobing and more.  lol  Made me question what the grid is about.  I know it said it’s a canvas, but not so sure now if it meant simply like a painting canvas (eg desktop or notepad) or if it has relevance to space canvas (like dance floor, stage or any room being lit).

For China-made heads, what fixture should I be using?  I don’t see generic moving head in the list, so  I thought I’d ask.

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 10:52 AM Robin Larsson <robin....@gmail.com> wrote:

You´re most welcome Mat :) 

Regarding limitations running DMX over wifi, I´ve just done a few test for the fun of it, with my DMXKing eDMX4 DIN interface connected through a Nowsonic Stage Router, and the only real difference I noted between running an ethernet cable to the laptop running LJ to the router and connecting via Wifi to the router was a bit more "lag", but really only noticable on very fast strobing effects, other than that it felt stable and responsive, but I havent really even considered running gigs that way unless its really hard to run a dmx or ethernet cable to the stage. But as Mat says, it should work very well for a few universes, perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even? 
But, if you want to run wireless DMX over a bit larger distances and with a big crowd, it may be worth checking out dedicate wireless DMX systems such as W-DMX from Wireless Solutions Sweden or CRMX from Lumen Radio. They run 2,4 and 5,8GHz systems just like Wifi, but afaik its not ethernet based on a protocol level and they have good antennas and good frequency hopping. Seems like both brands are pretty well trusted by the top pro´s, and more and more fixtures are coming out with either system built in.

Still, wireless systems are always more sensitive and create more latency than wired ones.

Saying that though, a few weeks ago I ran sound and light for an EDM event with around 500 guest, we had FOH about 12-14m from the stage. I ran our A&H Qu-pac as main audio mixer up behind the stage, maybe 20m from the FOH desk, and controlled it with an Ipad connected via wifi to the router mounted in the same case as the mixer, next to the amps. Not a single connection issue the whole night, but mostly monitored things and only the occasional adjument to levels. 
We did run a Cat5 cable from the laptop running Lightjams at FOH to the artnet node behind the stage, but could probably have just run dmx via the same wifi router as the audio. But when you have to run a powercable across the dancefloor and put out cable protectors (Defender Nano in my case), I will just rather run a Cat5 cable as well :) 

I could see a good case for running one switch/router at FOH and one on the stage, and let the one at FOH do wifi for ipads and such, run both network audio and dmx over those switches and preferably run 2 separate Cat5 cables between the switches for redudancy. Preferably set up with a separate VLAN for each protocol, there are a few units on the market that seems to do this very well these days :) 

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 14:52:33 UTC+1 skrev Mathieu:

Thanks Robin for the great info! 

>>  Is it safe to say that I should start under the “Music” tab since my app is mainly focused on lighting via music as input?

Yes. If I understand correctly, you want to use the real-time audio analysis. Be sure to look at the video tutorials to understand the basics of Lightjams and then look at the basic project and then the sample projects about music2light: https://www.lightjams.com/tutorial.html

>> I’m also assuming LJ is best suited for wired DMXs and to stay away from wireless DMXs, correct?

Lightjams has no preferences. You can decide to use a wireless DMX system if this suits you. You can also use a wifi to transmit DMX over the network using the ArtNet or sACN protocol (you then need a ArtNet/sACN node instead of a USB to DMX interface). You just need to be aware of the limitations of a wireless system VS a wired one. For example, don't expect to transmit 100's of DMX universes over a wifi. But it can certainly work for a few universes.

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[Mathieu]

>> perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even?

In both cases, make sure to enter your nodes IP addresses to enable unicast. With unicast, there's no difference in performance over a wifi between Artnet and sACN. Broadcast and multicast are more complex to handle for a wifi than a wired network and the wifi performance degrades quickly when used.

>> Bringing saturation down to 0 while keeping Intensity at 50% gets you white, but not full power.

You can puts the intensity at 100% and the saturation at 0% to get the full power white. I guess the complexity is having to control both the saturation and intensity at the same time in this case.  You can try having a grid with a higher precedence with saturation at 0% and intensity at 100% than you can activate when you want white.

As for strobes, there's a strobe function that should be used instead of the pulse function. The strobe function is synced to the DMX output. 

[Robin Larsson]

>> perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even?

>>In both cases, make sure to enter your nodes IP addresses to enable unicast. With unicast, there's no difference in performance over a wifi between Artnet and sACN. Broadcast and multicast are more complex to handle for a wifi than a wired network and the wifi performance degrades quickly when used.

Thank you for that MatI dont remember exactly how I have it setup at the moment, but I´ll definitly will look into that and make sure I´m using Unicast :)

>> Bringing saturation down to 0 while keeping Intensity at 50% gets you white, but not full power.

>>You can puts the intensity at 100% and the saturation at 0% to get the full power white. I guess the complexity is having to control both the saturation and intensity at the same time in this case.  You can try having a grid with a higher precedence with saturation at 0% and intensity at 100% than you can activate when you want white.

 Yeah, I do know that, use that a lot of course, and I like doing pixel effects that start white and fade to some other color, which is very easy to do. The thing is that I do my pixeleffects and such with the intensity attributes, but I dont want to make specific White effects, I want a number of effects to choose from, and be able to select the color freely during a show, otherwise there would be no problem at all :) 

If I do such an "override" grid with 0% saturation and 100% intensity, that would just kill all the intensity based effect that I use. Btw, once Intensity is a max, does it really matter what the Saturation is set at? I´ve always felt that I get full power white as long as I put Intensity at 100%, no matter the setting on Saturation or Hue? Atleast with RGBW fixtures, havent used RGB fixtures for a good while now to be honest (maybe 3-4 out of 100+ fixtures we own are RGB, except for lasers) 

Perhaps there is simple way to build all my Intensity based effects in such a way that the sources are limited to 0-50% when I have a color other than pure white selected and default to 0-100 and Saturation 0 when no color is selected. Or the otherway around, default is 0-50% and a gets "boosted" to 0-100% and 0% saturation when White is selected. Need to keep saturation at 0% to be able to run white effects at less than full power, otherwise they will fade to a color.
I think I see a relatively simple path to doing it that way actually, but if you have a good suggestion on how to do it, please let me know :) 
I build effects in different ways, so need to be able to do change it with both fixed and pulsating Power values, but it should be doable.

And just to be clear, I love Lightjams, havent used any other DMX software since I started using Lightjams, and have recommended it to a number of friends and colleagues, atleast 4 of them are now running or just started to test Lightjams, Clava Aski that frequents this forum is one of them :D

[sightsoundcookeville .]

Fellow strobe freak here. Also Lightjams addict. My buddy keeps trying to get me on MA2, but I'm not buying a damn NPU to run strands.

Most strobe lag I've had is attributed to fixtures, which has driven me to cheaper and cheaper lights. Basically, if the light has a simple microchip that just does as its told. If it has a microprocessor that is programmed, I've had lag, or they program the lights to dim on like halogen fixtures which just screws everything up for me. Hence, my favs are the WS2811 and WS2812 LEDs and Par86b LEDs.

Last week I had 100 WS2811 on a swing, 40 or so WS2812b embedded into masks all running on wifi. (All ESP8266) then a tent worth of 86b LEDs on a DMXking4 running on sACN hardwire to DMX, then some wireless DMX from the same unit to stage lights. Only noticeable lag was on the stage lights.

  IMG_9214.MOV

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[Robin Larsson]

Strobes and strobe can be awesome for sure :D Yeah,  I have a buddy trying to get me over to MA as well, the convention center he works for sold of their MA2 onPC rigs, complete with computer, touchscreen, PCwing and maybe even a node for a very good price, so he gets to play with MA3 Light consoles now, and he suggested I buy one of those setups. But, I´m staying with Lightjams for the forseeable future, I dont really see anything that MA can do that Lightjams cant, only that it may be a bit faster to program some things for Moving heads and similar, but that doesnt feel even almost worth the very much higher cost. More so when one needs extra nodes.

Very interesting to hear about your findings in regards to strobe lag! I havent used pixel strips and similar sadly, and cant say I have noted a distinct difference between different fixtures when it comes to strobe lag. The issue I´ve had is that the strobing doesnt stay at a constant frequency, I get like 10 or so flashes, then there is a slight paus, then another set of flashes and then it pauses again. Only happens when running pretty fast strobes, 0,15s or so seems to be the threshold if I remember correctly. It stays in sync across multiple sACN universes on a DMXking eDMX4 DIN, and if I remember correctly, even across different fixtures, all lags at the same time. 
I´ll have to do some more testing with this, and see if there is a difference between the simplest cheapest fixtures without displays and the most expensive fixtures like LED moving heads and such that we have in stock. But as I said before, both me and a few friends have run into this with different computers, interfaces and fixtures in different classes. 
I´ve had the same issue strobing a single LED par can running on a single grid with nothing else patched, and with entire rigs running 40+ fixtures over 800+ DMXchannels on multiple universes. I´ve so far mostly noticed it with my par cans and LEDbars, mostly because I simply just use the strobechannels on things like Moving Heads and Strobes/Blinders. 

Den torsdag 7 november 2019 kl. 20:09:11 UTC+1 skrev sightsoundcookeville:

Fellow strobe freak here. Also Lightjams addict. My buddy keeps trying to get me on MA2, but I'm not buying a damn NPU to run strands.

Most strobe lag I've had is attributed to fixtures, which has driven me to cheaper and cheaper lights. Basically, if the light has a simple microchip that just does as its told. If it has a microprocessor that is programmed, I've had lag, or they program the lights to dim on like halogen fixtures which just screws everything up for me. Hence, my favs are the WS2811 and WS2812 LEDs and Par86b LEDs.

Last week I had 100 WS2811 on a swing, 40 or so WS2812b embedded into masks all running on wifi. (All ESP8266) then a tent worth of 86b LEDs on a DMXking4 running on sACN hardwire to DMX, then some wireless DMX from the same unit to stage lights. Only noticeable lag was on the stage lights.

  IMG_9214.MOV

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 12:25 PM Robin Larsson <robin....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> perhaps best with sACN rather than Artnet even?

>>In both cases, make sure to enter your nodes IP addresses to enable unicast. With unicast, there's no difference in performance over a wifi between Artnet and sACN. Broadcast and multicast are more complex to handle for a wifi than a wired network and the wifi performance degrades quickly when used.

Thank you for that MatI dont remember exactly how I have it setup at the moment, but I´ll definitly will look into that and make sure I´m using Unicast :)

>> Bringing saturation down to 0 while keeping Intensity at 50% gets you white, but not full power.

>>You can puts the intensity at 100% and the saturation at 0% to get the full power white. I guess the complexity is having to control both the saturation and intensity at the same time in this case.  You can try having a grid with a higher precedence with saturation at 0% and intensity at 100% than you can activate when you want white.

 Yeah, I do know that, use that a lot of course, and I like doing pixel effects that start white and fade to some other color, which is very easy to do. The thing is that I do my pixeleffects and such with the intensity attributes, but I dont want to make specific White effects, I want a number of effects to choose from, and be able to select the color freely during a show, otherwise there would be no problem at all :) 

If I do such an "override" grid with 0% saturation and 100% intensity, that would just kill all the intensity based effect that I use. Btw, once Intensity is a max, does it really matter what the Saturation is set at? I´ve always felt that I get full power white as long as I put Intensity at 100%, no matter the setting on Saturation or Hue? Atleast with RGBW fixtures, havent used RGB fixtures for a good while now to be honest (maybe 3-4 out of 100+ fixtures we own are RGB, except for lasers) 

Perhaps there is simple way to build all my Intensity based effects in such a way that the sources are limited to 0-50% when I have a color other than pure white selected and default to 0-100 and Saturation 0 when no color is selected. Or the otherway around, default is 0-50% and a gets "boosted" to 0-100% and 0% saturation when White is selected. Need to keep saturation at 0% to be able to run white effects at less than full power, otherwise they will fade to a color.
I think I see a relatively simple path to doing it that way actually, but if you have a good suggestion on how to do it, please let me know :) 
I build effects in different ways, so need to be able to do change it with both fixed and pulsating Power values, but it should be doable.

And just to be clear, I love Lightjams, havent used any other DMX software since I started using Lightjams, and have recommended it to a number of friends and colleagues, atleast 4 of them are now running or just started to test Lightjams, Clava Aski that frequents this forum is one of them :D

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[Mathieu]

Also, make sure you're using the strobe function and not a pulse. The strobe function is the only one that is synced to the dmx output.

[Robin Larsson]

Oh, I did not know there was a difference in how the Strobe and Pulse functions work! I will try that out as soon as I can, I almost sure that most of my tests where I´ve had strobe lag have been back before the Strobe waveform was even there, and I´m not sure I´ve used Strobe for much of anything, hopefully that solves my "issue" :) Maybe good to do strobes at a speed that is evenly divisble with the DMX refresh rate as well? 

[masterdeeno]

ok so, here’s where i’m at.

1) used the chauvet project file

2) created 3 grids with the same fixture and patches

3) each grid have different colors (grid1 is mainly blue, grid2 is mainly cyan and grid3 is mainly red)

4) each grid is powered by music input

5) grid1 formula was for low freq (or bass), grid2 is foe mid (or vocals) and grid3 is for hihats, etc (treble).

is there any difference is using this formula:

music.1.low.beat

vs

music.1.low.beat - (music.1.mid.beat + music.1.hi.beat)

I guess I’m getting lost on what to expect after using formulas.

Also, is there a way to blackout just one grid?  Instead of all grids?

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[Mathieu]

Hi,

>> is there any difference is using this formula: music.1.low.beat vs music.1.low.beat - (music.1.mid.beat + music.1.hi.beat)

music.1.low.beat  is the beat amplitude of the low frequency bands

music.1.low.beat - (music.1.mid.beat + music.1.hi.beat) is subtracting the beat amplitude of the mid and hi from the low frequencies. I'm not sure what you want to do with it...

>> Also, is there a way to blackout just one grid? 

You can turn down the activation slider of a grid. Go in the grid manager (ctrl-g), select the grid or group and select its activation slider. You're free to link this slider to any input and do a blackout of one or multiple grids or groups based on this.

[masterdeeno]

So is the amplitude value or result irrelevant?  I mean, if the value is 5, will its color be different when the value hits 10?  That’s why I thought negating other frequency will give me better response.  Also, do you have specific frequency band that’s grouped under low, mid and high frequency bands?

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 4:08 PM Mathieu <mat...@lightjams.com> wrote:

Hi,

>> is there any difference is using this formula: music.1.low.beat vs music.1.low.beat - (music.1.mid.beat + music.1.hi.beat)

music.1.low.beat  is the beat amplitude of the low frequency bands

music.1.low.beat - (music.1.mid.beat + music.1.hi.beat) is subtracting the beat amplitude of the mid and hi from the low frequencies. I'm not sure what you want to do with it...

>> Also, is there a way to blackout just one grid? 

You can turn down the activation slider of a grid. Go in the grid manager (ctrl-g), select the grid or group and select its activation slider. 

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[Mathieu]

If you're controlling grid activations and a grid contains hue attributes, then the activation level is used as the weight for merging the hues and to determine the final hue. So if there's only one active grid with the hues, there's nothing to merge and the final hue is what's in the grid.

It would be easier to understand if you try it.