X32 ASIO support

[Molavi Rameen]

Hi, I have been using Lightjams with reasonable success.  I really like the visual interface and the creativity it allows.  

Right now, the way I am using it is with a small USB controller (korg Nanocontrol) for manual control, and audio signals from my soundboard (Behringer X32).  The problem I am having is, when I try to connect the channels from my x32, it says that the buffer must be set to a power of 2.  I am not able to set the behringer ASIO software to those settings.  I have to use "ASIO4ALL."  Using Asio4All, I am able to get up to 4 stereo channels working.  The effect is very good, as I can have different instruments controlling different aspects of different lights.  I.E. the lights flash with the kick drum, or change color with the snare drum, etc, making a great overall effect.  Unfortunately, I since I can only take 4 stereo channels, I can only use whatever channels are routed to 1-8, meaning not only can I only use 4 instruments, I have to re-route the outputs for shows which need input from say, channel 31.  Is there any way to make lightjams compatible with the behringer x32 asio driver?  I would like to have all the channels available in lightjams for maximum effect and ease of operation.

[Mathieu]

Hi Molavi,

The error saying "must be power of 2" usually means the specified buffer length isn't supported. It needs to be a power of 2 - 512, 1024, 2048, etc. You can try configuring your X32's buffer length accordingly. When its not a power of two, it's way slower to do some type computations and that's the reason it's not supported.

For the other part of the request, having 8 music analyzers instead of 4, I think it's a good idea. I'm putting this on my todo list.

Mathieu

[Mathieu]

Can you confirm you can use the 4 music analyzers with ASIO if you change the buffer length to be a power of 2?

[Molavi Rameen]

I am unable to set the buffer length to a power of 2.  It is adjusted in millisecond increments, not by samples.  20ms to 21ms jumps from 960 to 1056.

[Mathieu]

I see. I've removed the power of two constraint and now ignore supplementary samples. You can try the latest beta to see if it works for you - http://www.lightjams.com/history.html

[Molavi Rameen]

I tried to install the beta version, but it doesn't work, I got this error

Object reference not set to an instance of an object.. 

Developer tips:

   at LE2.Window1.Window1_Loaded(Object sender, RoutedEventArgs e)

   at System.Windows.EventRoute.InvokeHandlersImpl(Object source, RoutedEventArgs args, Boolean reRaised)

   at System.Windows.UIElement.RaiseEventImpl(DependencyObject sender, RoutedEventArgs args)

   at MS.Internal.FrameworkObject.OnLoaded(RoutedEventArgs args)

   at System.Windows.BroadcastEventHelper.BroadcastEvent(DependencyObject root, RoutedEvent routedEvent)

   at System.Windows.BroadcastEventHelper.BroadcastLoadedEvent(Object root)

   at System.Windows.Media.MediaContext.FireLoadedPendingCallbacks()

   at System.Windows.Media.MediaContext.FireInvokeOnRenderCallbacks()

   at System.Windows.Media.MediaContext.RenderMessageHandlerCore(Object resizedCompositionTarget)

   at System.Windows.Media.MediaContext.RenderMessageHandler(Object resizedCompositionTarget)

   at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.InternalRealCall(Delegate callback, Object args, Int32 numArgs)

   at MS.Internal.Threading.ExceptionFilterHelper.TryCatchWhen(Object source, Delegate method, Object args, Int32 numArgs, Delegate catchHandler)

Version info:

Application version: 1.0.0.326 (64 bits)

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate  (64 bits)

CLR: 4.0.30319.18063

CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8120 Eight-Core Processor           

ID2: CM98f29df5542198ec42bd2f1ce56d7ad1

RAM: 7.98 GB

StartupPath: C:\Program Files\LJ\Lightjams

Install dir: C:\Program Files\LJ\Lightjams\

Data dir: C:\ProgramData\Lightjams

[Mathieu]

Thanks for the testing. Do you get another error before this one? This may be caused by some missing Windows updates. You can try running Windows Update or you may need to install the VS2015 c++ redistributable manually - https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download/details.aspx?id=48145. 

I'll try to reproduce this error on my Win7 computer.

[Jack]

Hi Mathieu,

I have a Behringer X32 too with an X-USB card. There is a good Asio driver available for a pc from :

https://www.music-group.com/Categories/Behringer/Mixers/Mixer-Accessories/X-USB/p/P0AZP/Features#

So, when you plug in the usb in the computer, there are 32 audio channels flowing through the cable. ha !

But, there are only 4 soundchannels available !!  If you can increase that to 32, then that would be MAGIC !!

At the moment I can for example select channel 1,2, 12 and 32. But only four of them at the same time.

If you copy 1-4 to 32 lines, then that would be a great compatability with the Behringer X32.

[Jack]

Here a picture of 4 other channels selected. I have put a signal on 5 and 17 of the 4 channels selected.

The problem simply is that you don't have the 32 available in Lightjams. Only four.

It looks like a simple request to add "sound" lines. :)

[Mathieu]

Hi Jack,

This may not be as simple as it looks though... Real-time analysis of 32 music inputs can become quite CPU intensive.

Out of curiosity, how will you use these 32 music inputs in your project? Can you describe what you're trying to do?

[Jack]

Well, the x32 is intended to be used for a live performance of a band. The drums may have like 8 microphones connected to the x32. There are other mics used too. A total of 20 is not much for a live show. It would be cool to be able to react on live input like that. Channels may be grouped on the x32 console, but that is for output to monitors on stage. The x32 usb card outputs all channels to usb. From there you can only use four channels in lightjams and that is so ehh.. limited. How many channels can be analyzed simultaneously you think ?  I have a hyperthreaded quadcore of 2ghz.

[Mathieu]

Have you tried with 4 inputs? I could make a custom build with 32 inputs but my guess is that it would become quite chaotic to control the lighting with that many info.

Tell me more about your plan to control the lighting parameters with these 32 inputs :)

[Jack]

I'v tried it only with two inputs (2 channel stereo) yet.. but as you can see with different channels. I see it's working exactly as I would like to see it.

But of course I have no idea about the computational costs. and the technical limitations.

The problem with a source like a soundcard  is that you can't react on like a vocal for example. When the singer sings, you might want to change the lighting depending on the singing. With a soundcard it's very difficult to extract the voice. Through the use of the x32 you can simply pick out the voice because it's one microphone, one channel. It comes in LJ as a line in through USB.

The Behringer X32 is incredibly much sold. Tens of thousands of pieces. The interactivity of Lightjams combined with an X32 is very powerful.

I want to make a setup in LightJams for a complete performance with a band. First experiment with a multitrack recordings that I have already. The multitrack recordings can be played on the X32 and LJ can be set up to interact with it. I think my recordings are 20 channels or so. I'm very enthousiastic about this.

[Mathieu]

I see. I'd try with these channels first: voice, bass drum, one cymbal and the output of the mixer.

With more channels, the result may become confusing for the spectators as there are too many variables.

Let me know how it goes!

[Jack]

Hi Mathieu,

I've connected a multitrack recorder to the X32 and played an audio track.

Selected four channels, I think they are:

1. kick drum

2. cymbal

3. snare

4. vocal (i'm sure of this one)

Then I played it on the X32, hooked it up to my computer with a USB cable and selected them in Lightjams.

In de video you can see 4 sources, each connected to a line (line 29,30,31 and 32), on the power setting for each source.

It works like a charm.. haha. But only four channels :( 

I recorded the audio and captured the video and made an mpg of it.. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2XVx1m67zCcN0lxM3RtTFpWdWM/view?usp=sharing

So, it's working without any problem.

The singer has vocal improvement possibilities.. very nice.

[Jack]

Sorry that the video is not very sharp.. that's caused by the videoprocessing.

It's just to show that four channels simultaneous works well.

The audio is actually five channels, including a bass guitar, for continuity. but only four channel go to LJ.

The bass guitar is not going to LJ but it's in the audio recording.

[Mathieu]

Very nice indeed :)

[Molavi Rameen]

Hi, this is similar to how I have been doing it.  I have been using only the drums, to control the lights.  Each drum controls a different parameter of the stage lights.  It looks great and is always in perfect sync with the music.  I believe this is a VERY powerful combination with the x32.  There are a few areas that would make it better.

1. More than 4 channels at a time.  If I do an acoustic show, I have to re-configure from the drum set to vocal mics/cajon/guitar etc.  I could create much more interesting lighting shows with more channels available.  I have had no CPU issues running Lightjams and all 32 channels through Ableton at the same time.  I'd like to try a beta version of LightJams with all 32 channels available to choose from at once!  As a venue owner I could have a perfectly synced interesting and flexible light show for any band.
2. The option to run a shorter buffer.  Right now I am at 6ms.  Since both LightJams and Ableton use the same driver, the 6ms also affects the audio.  Some musicians don't notice 6ms, but others do.  Over the past few months, several people said it was throwing them off.  That's a dealbreaker for me, so I can't run audio plugins through Ableton at the same time as I use Lightjams.  Since I have been having no CPU performance issues at all, I'd like to at least try shorter buffers!
My computer specs are
AMD 8150 3.1GHx 8 core CPU
8GB RAM
OCZ AGILITY SSD
Geoforce 460GTX GPU
Decent but nowhere near extreme.  I would spend extra money to upgrade the computer running the software if it was necessary.  It would be worth it because I believe it to be a very powerful combination! 

[Mathieu]

I've reduced the minimum buffer size from 256 to 64. However, I think the music analysis precision will be very low when using a buffer of 64... 

You can get the latest beta here (version 341):

64 bits: http://www.lightjams.com/app/lightjams64_test.zip

32 bits: http://www.lightjams.com/app/lightjams32_test.zip

[Molavi Rameen]

Hi, I tried it out today, there were no CPU problems.  The responsiveness is very fast.  I think what suffers most is high frequency analysis.   A lot of the high frequency information is missing.  For me, however, this is still very usable for me, because I am mostly using the beats and low frequencies.  It also has lower latency.  Would it be difficult to increase the number of channels available?    I'm running lightjams and ableton on the same machine with the same driver, and there are no performance issues.  I am only at about 20-30% CPU load.

[Mathieu]

I'm surprised a buffer of about 2ms is good enough for something, but if it works for you, then great :)

Adding more channels is lot more work though. I'll need to think more about this.

[Jack]

In the new version of LightJams there are 8 music input channels. Alot of performance improvements too in this release. I guess the performance improvements were necessary to enable processing of more music input channels. Anyway, 8 channels is Great !!!. I'm gone try it out this week. (x32+hd24)