RE: Single Black Women

[Frankela Albury]

Hey Group,

 

This has been a topic I've heard discussed on various occasions.  How African American women are the largest population of unmarried women in the United States.  And of course there are many reasons why this is said to be so;

 

1)  They are not willing to submit to a man/husband as the head of their household, because they are used to running the show (ihustlenation.com)

 

2) They tend to make more money which makes African American men feel inferior and emasculated (forgot where maybe the ABC special)

 

3) They are overweight, loud, crass, ghetto and way too bossy (tons of places)

 

4) Their requirements/expectations/standards for a suitable mate (ie. money, looks, education..etc.) are way too high (the ABC special)

 

5) They are not willing to date someone outside of their race unless they look like Brad Pitt (Chris Rock).

 

Let me know your opinion on this issue.

[Obatunji McKnight]

     I am going to look this up but I'm willing to bet there are a significant amount of unmarried women from the lowest end of the socioecomincal spectrum of all races. Black women may have a higher rate but it is something I feel is overscrutinized in the media. I think in general marriage rates are falling. They have always been lower in less affluent communities especially those concentrated in low-income inner city environments (like the majority of african american currently). If the rate for all races are going down, then if black started out with lower rates presumably they would end up with lower rates. So why?

     I think it stems from the lack of a coherent united ethnic family culture. Unlike others of the african diaspora, blacks in the US were spread over a much vaster geographical area and vastly outnumbered. There were few opportunities to birth any lasting cultural family traditions. A lot of immigrants come to the US with the same cultural ties and work ethics our ancestors possessed fresh off the boat and perhaps immediately after slavery. Their priorities are the old world priorities of family and the group. Here our mass culture is one of independence and individualism. Why you live determines how you live. If you live for yourself, you will be alone.

     Adding the factors of poverty and institutionalized racism to any of the issues facing african americans and it skews the statistics. As long as those factors continue to affect blacks and other minorities statistical studies and reports will continue to show discouraging results.

[Frankela Albury]

There was this huge show done on ABC maybe like a 20/20 or something about the amount of single African American women and also a few articles about it in Essence magazine.  These women who they interviewed were affluent African American women who were good looking, educated, not baby momma's and had good salaries but were still single and looking.

 

Also a few years ago I saw a Tyra Banks show about the same topic, stating African American women and Asian men are the least likely to be married. 

 

Please bring some statistical data.  As we all know many black men also date outside of their race and date women of other cultures, because "black women have too many problems/issues" and I'm paraphrasing. 

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[Faunya Estrada]

I think all of these statements are fallacies and most are just excuses given by men who lack the ability to commit or have a case of dislike for themselves.

While there are black women who are unwilling to submit, are overweight, are crass, etc., etc.....there are also black women who are not that way....there are also women of other races who are all of those things that are used to describe black women.

I think the percentage of black women is so high because there is a lack of marriable black men out there, as compared to marriable black women available.  If you look at the statistics of black women to every employable black man in the US, there is a big difference in the 2.  If you then take into consideration the men who appear to be heterosexual on paper, but really aren't and the men who feel that the closer to white a woman is the better.....there is an even bigger difference.  Then consider the % of black women unwilling to date outside their race and/or broaden their horizons and you have your answer.  

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

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[Tamara Evans]

Hmm.. interesting topic

 

I would like to add that what i am typing are the views of Tamara Evans, there has been no research into the matter on her part. 

 

I did look at the US census for 2010 and found that 46% of all women in the US ages 15 have husbands currently.  51% of White women in this age range are married, 58.5% Asian women, 44% Hispanic, and  26.6% of black women in this age range are married.  That is a HUGE difference. 

 

I didn't look at the percentage of divorcees this is just the numbers for those currently married. 

 

Now to my own opinions

 

Looking at those numbers from the Census i came up with several things:

 

1. Culture - Asians and Hispanics the culture, they teach marriage is just as important for a woman, as her own breath.

2. Socio-economic status - read Oba's commentary

3. Attraction- African American women (Black), are considered less attractive to society.  Yes, black men love black women as do some other races but as a whole, i read some where that black women are considered less desirable.  I have had discussions with other black women in regards to this to see how they felt about this. 

 

I think Oba mentioned in another post that light skin was considered more feminine and dark was masculine.  Hence the reason why the black man is loved by women all over the world, even if in secrecy. 

 

Also

 

With that being said, i would like to respond to the points that Aiye mentioned below along with my own observations...

 

1. I think women not just black women, who have grown up in households where women were the father and mother and they have seen their mothers and grandmothers take care of everything.  They too become just as independent and controlling of their own households.  Their are many single parent households and the mentality is "do what you have to do to make ends meet" or "don't ever have to depend on a man, if you have to pack your bags and go" This being said by many hurt mothers etc..

 

2. I don't necessarily agree with the statement that black men feel inferior to women who make more than them.  I know too many people that date men or have married men that makes less than them and the relationship is fine.

 

3. Hmm.. this is funny.  Obesity in America is an issue not just among black americans.  Me being a plus size woman, often thinks if my weight is an issue for me being single.  But then i snap back to reality and say Bulls**t.  That's not it.  And not all black women are "ghetto", what does that mean anyway?  And maybe those women attract "ghetto" men. 

 

4. Aww.. the High Standards excuse... ahahahaha.. seriously, can a women have standards.  Who are "they" to decide that my standards too high.. too high for who? Not for me.

 

5. Well, i think that now more and more black women are considering dating outside of their race.  This being the option since it seems as if many of us are single and can't find a suitable mate. 

I, personally, will date outside of my race.  i tried it.. it didn't work out, se' la vi.  Will this deter me from inter racial dating in the future, no, it will not.  Someone introduce me to an Indian, Italian, or African man and i will show you what i am talking about.. LOL!!

 

 

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[Frankela Albury]

Wow, those stats are astounding.  Almost 1/2 of the black women are not married. Of course in this day and age marriage is not viewed the same in our culture as it were 50 years ago.  Although our elders may have raised children single-handedly most of them were married first.  That filters down from the break down of the black family from slavery to the civil rights movement.  Many black men were killed, jailed left because They were unable to provide for their families.  Not to mention the post traumatic slavery disorder that derives from using strong men as breeding tools on the plantation, selling off husband wives & children has left a long lasting effect on our race.

Next lets look at societal influences the slim white woman has always been marketed as beautiful.  Used to be part of our culture when our great grandparents would say if They are darker than a paper bag don't bring them home.  Clearly giving props to the lighter part of our race.

Enough history in my own dating experience I've found many men who've only dated me because I was lightskinned with long hair. Or I had an exotic look.  And I've had to dumb down to date.  Some black men don't feel comfortable dating an intelligent woman.  They have challenged my intellect.  Some only notice my shapely figure but not anything else.  Then I have friends who do not look like me, They Are darker bigger & smarter and not many men will come on to them. 

I've done an experiment before I'll go out to a bar, dressed sort of sexy, meet a man and play the dumb blond role.  They love it they fall hook line & sinker.  Then later on I have an actual discussion about something relevant to real life other than silly giggles and I've heard "wow you're pretty smart, Then they'll switch the conversation to something sexual.  If I don't bite they lose interest.  Or I'm such a great girl to have as a friend but they only want friendship & sex on the side if that's possible.  Crazy hunh!!  I've spoken to older black women with the same issues.  Why?

I can go on and on but there definitely is a reason why we are at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to marriage

>> life_talk+...@googlegroups.com<life_talk%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Obatunji McKnight]

There was also the whole welfare scam in the fifties to the seventies, where two parent households couldn't qualify for certain types of government aid and so the father would leave to avoid the social workers visits and inspections. This took any momentum for a black cultural institution of marriage. Hence, "Papa was a rolling stone". Building a culture of marriage requires the children/future to see many example of what we wish to impress upon them. Due to the fact that there aren't many examples for children to see, generation after generation, and when there is any positive trend in the black community it is destroyed by the institution as a threat. Black males aren't raised with as great an emphasis on marriage as other cultures. The majority of role models young black men have to look up to are unmarried. At this point it becomes a self-perpetuating stereotype. I wonder the results for surveys on the percentages of married black men vs other races.

[Faunya Estrada]

On a more positive note.....

While statistics show that percentage of black women getting married in the US is far lesser than those of other races, we are getting married and there are plenty of us.

Out of the low percentage of black women at my job, all are married but one.....The one who is not married isn't necessarily black, she's Dominican, but I group her in this category because she looks black. Out of the married ones, one is a receptionist and married to a white guy and probably one of the prettiest black girls I have ever seen. The other married women are professionals and quite smart in my opinion.

Out of all the girls I went to high school with (went to public school in Harlem, so they were all black), the majority of them are married and two others (that I know of) are engaged.

My immediate circle of college friends aren't married yet, but many people in my extended circle of college associates are.

As an aside, all the black females who I know of that are married do not fall into a specific physical category either.  They come in all colors, shapes and sizes.  While recently unpacking my papers, I came across a thank you card from a wedding I attended with my ex while he was in (or just out of) law school. The female was a black, plus-sized attorney & her husband was quite attractive and madly in love with her. 

In addition to her, there were several weddings we attended together and others I heard about after the fact.....of black female attorneys he graduated law school with. We also have one on the discussion board who is getting married in a couple months.

So, despite your physical attributes or level of success, there are men out their looking for eligible black females to marry.  The ones who are not interested a real relationship or intelligence are clearly not the ones for you, so move on.

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

On Jan 5, 2011 10:52 PM, Obatunji McKnight <obat...@gmail.com> wrote:

There was also the whole welfare scam in the fifties to the seventies, where two parent households couldn't qualify for certain types of government aid and so the father would leave to avoid the social workers visits and inspections. This took any momentum for a black cultural institution of marriage. Hence, "Papa was a rolling stone". Building a culture of marriage requires the children/future to see many example of what we wish to impress upon them. Due to the fact that there aren't many examples for children to see, generation after generation, and when there is any positive trend in the black community it is destroyed by the institution as a threat. Black males aren't raised with as great an emphasis on marriage as other cultures. The majority of role models young black men have to look up to are unmarried. At this point it becomes a self-perpetuating stereotype. I wonder the results for surveys on the percentages of married black men vs other races.

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[Frankela Albury]

Although this may prove true in your circle, stats don't lie.  If it weren't such an alarming number of African American Women not married, there wouldn't be so many articles or television shows about it on TV.  Basically 1 out of every 4 black women are married, which shows true in my work place (although blacks are scarce) in my friendships as well as when I worked at Essence.

 

It's true and their is a reason for it.

[Obatunji McKnight]

Or it could be true, and there is no reason for it...

[Obatunji McKnight]

Or better put, this probably wasn't the case throughout history. Before this place became the united states of america, was this true? No of course not. Because there was no such thing as an african american women. They were still just africans then. They were brought here for profit, and then hated on for whatever reasons. Now we ask why the women have the lowest marriage rates (though I'd speculate the men's rates reflect similar results). Why are black people the least desirable as mates? The history of our country is reflected in our lives; How we eat, sleep and pro-create. This question will have no definitive, satisfying answer because there is no good reason for it.  Any answer given, any of us will know examples of black women who don't fit that reason. The only answer given that may be correct is 'black women get married less because they are apparently african american'. Thats really effing wack. 

[tamara...@gmail.com]

This is something that I have come to learn thru observation...

All races tend to stay together meaning though marriage, procreation, and living.
When I traveled to countries (islands) that are predominately black people, I never knew that "we" were the least desired because everyone is the same.
In these countries they marry one another and desire one another. I am pretty sure that the black african marriage rate is not as low in africa, simply because the country belongs to them.
It wasn't until I traveled to a non-black populated country that I realized black people of African decent are really looked down upon. Not only was I an american, which other countries either love us or hate us, but I was black and female. So I learned that its not just in america where the black man and woman get a bad wrap but all over this world.

So here in America where we have a melting pot of races, there isn't a different concept of black people.
What does this have to do with black women in America not getting married... Umm.. Nothing. I just wanted to point that out.

But I will add this, the male to female ratio in America. There are more women than men and depending on the region of the country you live in the odds are even slimmer. So this too could be a factor.
And let's say there are an influx of black women or men that decide to marry and procreate with other races then where does that leave the race in let's say 100 years, Extinction?
I am really just rambling because I have mentioned to my friends that I will marry a foreigner and leave the US. So these are just thoughts in my own mind that what if everyone thought like me... Then my race would be extinct.

I guess we all have our own thoughts as to why only 26% of black women ages 15 and above are married. And maybe there are many factors that are at fault.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

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From: Obatunji McKnight <obat...@gmail.com>

Sender: life...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:40:56 -0500

To: <life...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: life...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Group Discussion: RE: Single Black Women

Or better put, this probably wasn't the case throughout history. Before this place became the united states of america, was this true? No of course not. Because there was no such thing as an african american women. They were still just africans then. They were brought here for profit, and then hated on for whatever reasons. Now we ask why the women have the lowest marriage rates (though I'd speculate the men's rates reflect similar results). Why are black people the least desirable as mates? The history of our country is reflected in our lives; How we eat, sleep and pro-create. This question will have no definitive, satisfying answer because there is no good reason for it.  Any answer given, any of us will know examples of black women who don't fit that reason. The only answer given that may be correct is 'black women get married less because they are apparently african american'. Thats really effing wack. 

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Obatunji McKnight <obat...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or it could be true, and there is no reason for it...

[Jai Jones]

A> I frikkin HATE this topic. It's over done, overworked, and exaggerated.

 

B>This  acid reflux of a topic that keeps coming up and burning black women every 15 minutes doesnt do much other than Make black women feel panicky and bitter, fuel caricatures and stereotypes of black women. And allow men to feel like they can play the feild indefinitely since there are just SOOO many needy unmaried women out here who would do anything to change their marital status or lack thereof. You can't put all of any race of women in a box. And it's ludicrous that people still try to. ALL black women arent unsubmissive, or gold digging, or loud and crass, or whatever else. Why does this topic get so much airtime???

 

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*Sometimes, I feel discriminated against, but it does not make me angry. It astonishes me. How can any deny themselves the pleasure of my company? It is beyond me.-Zora Neale Hurston

[Jai Jones]

by the way..the dude who runs ihustlenation.com is a narcissistic misogynist. I've hungout with him about 3 times. Pretty much wasted those hours of my life.

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Frankela Albury <girlsgr...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Obatunji McKnight]

" It wasn't until I traveled to a non-black populated country that I realized black people of African decent are really looked down upon. Not only was I an american, which other countries either love us or hate us, but I was black and female. So I learned that its not just in america where the black man and woman get a bad wrap but all over this world.

So here in America where we have a melting pot of races, there isn't a different concept of black people.
What does this have to do with black women in America not getting married... Umm.. Nothing. I just wanted to point that out."

Tamara people do view blacks around the world negatively, today. But thats due to global westernization. The views that other cultures have of black people or african americans is based on america's view of black people. Due to the american media's continuous negative portrayl of negro's we have been come the most notorious race on the planet. If you think about it, chinese people from american aren't called chinese americans when they are outside of the country, but we are called black. Africans are identified with thier native country when they travel,

"what are you?"

"I'm nigerian."

Never, I'm black. Even in some places in african, when it's realized you are american, somehow the stereotypes still follow you. It's not all hugs and love in black countries. How people view our race is a Big part of the marital problem.

 

Jai, you're right, this is an over-talked argument. Let's stop talking about it and do something. Like try to hold the media accountable for the images they put out. Or begin an education campaign aimed at minority adolescents about the importance of marriage and structured family arrangements. Or whatever other good ideas people have.

Peace and Balance