RE: Why Monogamy Matters

[Frankela Albury]

Hey Group,

 

It's been a long time.  I just read this article and thought, it was great.  I'd like every one to take a peek and let me know your thoughts.  I've been having this conversation recently with my teenage daughter.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/07/opinion/07douthat.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1299592994-B1qcB0H14Cr0YI/Cb2QjOg

 

Why Monogamy Matters

By ROSS DOUTHAT

Published: March 6, 2011

Social conservatives can seem like the perennial pessimists of American politics — more comfortable with resignation than with hope, perpetually touting evidence of family breakdown, social disintegration and civilizational decline.

But even doomsayers get the occasional dose of good news. And so it was last week, when a study from the Centers for Disease Control revealed that American teens and 20-somethings are waiting longer to have sex.

In 2002, the study reported, 22 percent of Americans aged 15 to 24 were still virgins. By 2008, that number was up to 28 percent. Other research suggests that this trend may date back decades, and that young Americans have been growing more sexually conservative since the late 1980s.

Why is this good news? Not, it should be emphasized, because it suggests the dawn of some sort of traditionalist utopia, where the only sex is married sex. No such society has ever existed, or ever could: not in 1950s America (where, as the feminist writer Dana Goldstein noted last week, the vast majority of men and women had sex before they married), and not even in Mormon Utah (where Brigham Young University recently suspended a star basketball player for sleeping with his girlfriend).

But there are different kinds of premarital sex. There’s sex that’s actually pre-marital, in the sense that it involves monogamous couples on a path that might lead to matrimony one day. Then there’s sex that’s casual and promiscuous, or just premature and ill considered.

This distinction is crucial to understanding what’s changed in American life since the sexual revolution. Yes, in 1950 as in 2011, most people didn’t go virgins to their marriage beds. But earlier generations of Americans waited longer to have sex, took fewer sexual partners across their lifetimes, and were more likely to see sleeping together as a way station on the road to wedlock.

And they may have been happier for it. That’s the conclusion suggested by two sociologists, Mark Regnerus and Jeremy Uecker, in their recent book, “Premarital Sex in America.” Their research, which looks at sexual behavior among contemporary young adults, finds a significant correlation between sexual restraint and emotional well-being, between monogamy and happiness — and between promiscuity and depression.

This correlation is much stronger for women than for men. Female emotional well-being seems to be tightly bound to sexual stability — which may help explain why overall female happiness has actually drifted downward since the sexual revolution.

Among the young people Regnerus and Uecker studied, the happiest women were those with a current sexual partner and only one or two partners in their lifetime. Virgins were almost as happy, though not quite, and then a young woman’s likelihood of depression rose steadily as her number of partners climbed and the present stability of her sex life diminished.

When social conservatives talk about restoring the link between sex, monogamy and marriage, they often have these kinds of realities in mind. The point isn’t that we should aspire to some Arcadia of perfect chastity. Rather, it’s that a high sexual ideal can shape how quickly and casually people pair off, even when they aren’t living up to its exacting demands. The ultimate goal is a sexual culture that makes it easier for young people to achieve romantic happiness — by encouraging them to wait a little longer, choose more carefully and judge their sex lives against a strong moral standard.

This is what’s at stake, for instance, in debates over abstinence-based sex education. Successful abstinence-based programs (yes, they do exist) don’t necessarily make their teenage participants more likely to save themselves for marriage. But they make them more likely to save themselves for somebody, which in turn increases the odds that their adult sexual lives will be a source of joy rather than sorrow.

It’s also what’s at stake in the ongoing battle over whether the federal government should be subsidizing Planned Parenthood. Obviously, social conservatives don’t like seeing their tax dollars flow to an organization that performs roughly 300,000 abortions every year. But they also see Planned Parenthood’s larger worldview — in which teen sexual activity is taken for granted, and the most important judgment to be made about a sexual encounter is whether it’s clinically “safe” — as the enemy of the kind of sexual idealism they’re trying to restore.

Liberals argue, not unreasonably, that Planned Parenthood’s approach is tailored to the gritty realities of teenage sexuality. But realism can blur into cynicism, and a jaded attitude can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Social conservatives look at the contemporary sexual landscape and remember that it wasn’t always thus, and they look at current trends and hope that it doesn’t have to be this way forever.

In this sense, despite their instinctive gloominess, they’re actually the optimists in the debate.

[Faunya Estrada]

Interesting article. 

 

I think that anyone, male or female, having sex outside of monogamy are unfulfilled in some way and in search of that fulfillment through engaging in sexual activity with multiple partners.  Some claim that it is purely for enjoyment, but how can you get joy from being used and/or using others purely for the use of one thing. This will never leave a person fulfilled.  Coupled with the different spirits and fumes you take on sleeping with various people, the lack of love and increased lack of respect the 'various people' have for you, will naturally leave the person feeling inadequate and ultimately depressed.....even if they don't show it. Just my outsider opinion.

 

 

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[tamara...@gmail.com]

The article does make interesting points. Not all of them I agree with totally... I guess I feel there are exceptions to the rules.
I must say that I am glad to hear that more teens are waiting before losing virginity. But I don't agree that promiscuity will lead to depression and an unfulfilled life.
I mean some people really enjoy sex and sex with multiple people. Just like some people really enjoy food so much that they overeat it.
I do believe you should teach your children monogamy, as of a matter of fact I believe you should teach them "no sex before marriage". In today's society that concept seems outdated but because of all of the physical and emotional harm sex can cause this form of teaching is valid.

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From: Faunya Estrada <faunya....@gmail.com>

Sender: life...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 10:32:44 -0500

To: <life...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: life...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Group Discussion: RE: Why Monogamy Matters

[Faunya Estrada]

Well, I think that people who overeat, even if they are only overeating because they enjoy food....eventually suffer from some level of depression, as well.  Moreover, I think that those who eat to gluttony aren't overeating just because they like food.  There is also a void they're trying to fill.....and when food doesn't fill it and they end up obese with major health issues and discrimination, they too become depressed and still unfulfilled.

 

I guess that's a bit off topic, but....... I figured I'd give my opinion on that too.

 

Sidebar question: I too believe in both monogamy and abstinence.  However, I often wonder.....How realistic is it to teach and expect your children/teens/adults to wait until they are married until they have sex?  Does anyone know someone who was a virgin until married?  How old were they?  How long was the courtship?  How has that worked out for them in the long run?

 

Me, personally, I don't know anyone who waited longer than I did.  I've heard or read stories of other people who have, but they either married prematurely at a very young age or their husband (who went along with the waiting) ended up having some kind of sexual issue (homosexuality, porn addictions, impotence, etc.)  In either case, I don't know of any successful instances.  Please share!

[Frankela Albury]

I think anything in excess it too much, no matter what it is.  If there is something that you must have and can't go without.  You are doing it to fill some sort of void and are probably ultimately depressed.

 

I think it is great that teens/adults are waiting longer to engage in sexual activities.  Do I think it's relevant/necessary to teach children to wait until they are married to engage in intercourse?  No sorry, I don't.  I don't think it's realistic.  Decades ago, women and men were getting married at earlier ages and starting families early, so it was considered the best option to wait.  But now in today's society men and women are waiting longer and longer before they say I do.  Many are waiting until they are college educated and settled into a career, which leads many couples to say "I do's" in their 30's.   But what I do think is necessary to teach is monogamy and waiting for that "one" as opposed to just sharing your body with any old Joe.  And making sure when you are making that decision you are equipped to deal with any consequences that may arise.  I personally don't think teenagers are ready to deal with the maturity it takes to take intimacy to that level.  They are still learning about themselves and are very emotionally impressionable on all level.  But as a parent myself, I think teaching safe sex to teenagers regardless if they are engaged in the activity or not is very important.  Teaching them about respecting themselves, loving themselves is just as important.  I think women and men who love and respect themselves tend to not be so promiscuious (sorry spelling). 

 

Flip-side I don't think a mature adult who wants to engage in having multiple partners experience depression because of it.  I think they're are alot of reasons for this.  Mostly I think it's experience.  Some people are not ready to settle down in a monogamous relationship but still want to enjoy sex.  Which is perfectly natural, pleasurable sex releases endorphines which causes happiness (I've actually read about this from scientist). 

 

I feel ultimately happiness comes from within, and if you search for it in something else, it will leave you unfilled.  But if you are looking to have a good time and you enjoy what you do and you are doing it because you want to and not in excess.  Then, MORE POWER TO  YOU!!!, DO YOU!!!!!

[Faunya Estrada]

Yes, do you!  I agree....But for the record, many of the same studies that show how sex makes a happier person, show that sex with multiple partners has the opposite affect that is intended.  I read about it a while ago.  I can't remember the source, but I'm sure it can be googled.

[Angella Middleton]

To Faunya's question - I actually know quite a few people, male and female, who are still virgins (in their 20s or 30s) or were a virgin when they married.  The ones who were virgins when they married were glad they waited and seem to be happily married from what I can tell.  But then, if there were some sexual issues in the marriage, how would I know? Lol  I don't think sexual inexperience is a guarantee that you'll have sexual issues with your spouse.  Just like any other issue in marriage, it takes two mature people who love each other, want each other, and are willing to put in the honesty, trust, communication and sacrifice to make it work...AND are self-aware enough to know, or at least have an idea of what they want from their spouse in marriage, and are able to communicate that with their partner BEFORE marriage in order to make an intelligent decision about whether or not this is the person they want to spend their life with.

 

On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Faunya Estrada <faunya....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Faunya Estrada]

Hmmm....well, I wasn't thinking that sexual inexperience means that you'll have sexual issues in marriage.....because clearly you can become experienced with your spouse. 

 

I guess in my life experiences, the only stories I've heard of people who actually waited (not including those who got married young), there was a reason other than their beliefs behind their wait.  So, ultimately they had issues once they were married and regular marital sex was expected.

I also know a couple of people who say they waited, but in reality they did not.  They were just lying to  keep up appearances.  I remember their being one couple in my church when I was a kid who both were virgins when they got married......but I didn't keep in contact and have no clue of the outcome of that.  I was just a kid, overhearing adult conversation.

 

Anyway, it's interesting to hear other points of views.  I think it's a beautiful thing to wait and save that experience for the one person you're going to spend your entire life with.  It makes it that much more special. 

[Angella Middleton]

I agree Faunya!

[Frankela Albury]

Ummm! Who was this couple?  I don't recall any couple where both parties waited.  I know couples that wanted to be intimate and ultimately got married so they can be intimate with the confines of their religion.  And with that relationship (FAIL!!!!!). Not because of the intimacy, it's that you shouldn't get married just because you want to be intimate.  It takes more than that to keep a relationship together.  (What happens if one spouse can't perform at some point?)

 

My daughter has a cousin (RIP) who was waiting until she was married to lose her virginity.  And she was in her 30's when she lost her life.  Not able to have ever experienced such a thing.  That's crazy, I guess.

 

Here's a story I think is quite interesting,  I have a cousin who met her husband at 14, dated then married early.  She had 3 children by him and now they are in their 50's still married and he's the only man she's ever been with.  (She's not the only woman he's been with) BTW: They were both 14 at the time they met.  Anyhoo, I had to ask her, if she ever wished she was with another man, or had a different experience.  She said....YES!!!!.   She said, at some point after so many years of marriage she had wondered what it was like to be with another man, but wouldn't mess up the sanctity of her marriage.  She said if she had divorced she thinks she would have run wild, but at this point in her life, she doesn't care, she doesn't need to start over and there are too many diseases out there.  Better to keep the Devil  you know than trade in for one you don't.  But what was interesting is that the thoughts did cross her mind.  KUDOS to her for not cheating is all I can say.  :-) (Thought this was interesting)

[Frankela Albury]

One more thing, what make intimacy special is how the two people feel about one another, not if it's the first time or not. 

[Faunya Estrada]

I think the lady's name was Tammi. I remember her & her husband eventually had a child & she gained a bunch of bottom weight and never lost it for as long as we knew her.  It was at when we went to Zoe & around the same time you had or got pregnant with Niambi bcuz I remember there was a new couple there who was over the choir, who had a daughter who went to that professional performing arts school.

Personally, who cares if you die a virgin. You're dead! Doesn't it matter more about whose lives you touched and if you made a difference in anyone's life while you were here on earth? Of all the things someone would think of while they are on their death bed, who's dying wish would be to experience sex? Not what happens next after death? That's crazy to me!

Regarding this 50 year old cousin, I don't know.....It's funny bcuz when Donnie & I got closer to the marrying stage, a couple of people expressed concern or thoughts about me being in that situation, but I never really understood the big hoopla. As long as you are with the person you love, does it really matter if there may be better or have something different to offer out there? Anything outside of the person I choose to spend my life with is fleeting. I would never trade in a lifetime of love for a bunch of fleeting different experiences.  I think it's natural to wonder, as this cousin did....but ultimately, it's not worth even considering.

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

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[Jai Jones]

I had a friend that was 26 before she lost her virginity. she married that guy a few years later so he was her only partner. I can't really see a downside to that *kanyeshrug*

 

I liked that article and it is nice to see that people are waiting longer.

 

I think anybody who is overdoing anything is hurting. It is what it is.

 

And it becomes a cycle. You are depressed about whatever...you engage in damaging behavior because you are depressed, you look at your behavior and become more depressed...lather rinse repeat. Something has to break that cycle.

 

I'll encourage my kids to wait. I'll arm them with information and protection is i Know that they are not waiting. I'll be there to pick up the pieces when they regret poor decisions. And that's the extent of my sex/parenting plan so far. LOL

*Sometimes, I feel discriminated against, but it does not make me angry. It astonishes me. How can any deny themselves the pleasure of my company? It is beyond me.-Zora Neale Hurston

[Jai Jones]

oh this reminds me of the topic i wanted to bring up weeks ago. about whether having pre-marital sexual partner(s) creates problems in a marriage due to comparisons made against your husband/wife. somebody should take that up. Because i think people ignore that as a downside. Yea it seems cool to have developed a certin skill level at sex which you can share with your partner (lol) but then again..now you also have experiences in your head to compare him or her to. That's not really cool. I wonder why no one ever mentions that.

 

I know a lot ofguys who said they should have married other girls than their wives because their wives are frigid and it affects them more than they would have thought. that the women are great in a million aspects...but the staleness of their love lives drives them almost to infidelity at least once a month. :( that's a bad look. If they didnt have anything to compare it to, perhaps they would not be dscontent...perhaps.

[Faunya Estrada]

I guess it can go both ways.  Had they not had other experiences, as in my sister's example of the cousin, pure curiosity could drive them close to infidelity as well.

It just depends on the person and what they value in life.  I would think the person who has had multiple experiences would benefit in this case because they know what's out there and what their wife has to offer before they got married and was able to make an informed decision.
 
My question would be to your male friends.  Why did they continue a relationship and ultimately marry their wife, if there were other girls out there with more to offer and better suited for them? My guess is that it's probably the case of the 80/20 rule, but would be interested to hear their reasoning?

-- Sent from my Palm Pre

[Jai Jones]

I think you are right about the 80/20 rule. Because none of them are foolish enough to actually want out. They dont want to leave their wives...they are (unwisely if you ak me) trying to supplement in one particular area.

[Obatunji McKnight]

What's the 80/20 rule?

[Faunya Estrada]

Hahaha!  Did you see "Why Did I Get Married?"  They explain it in the movie.  See below.....

 

"In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of what you need and you will hardly get the other 20% that you want in your relationship. There is always another person (man or women) that you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking in your relationship that you want And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at all in your current relationship.

But the problem is that you will always be tempted to leave that good 80% that you know you have, thinking that you will get something better with the other 20% that you want 

But as reality has proven, in most cases, you will always end up with having the 20% that you want and loosing the 80% that you really need and that you already had. "

 

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Obatunji McKnight <obat...@gmail.com> wrote:

What's the 80/20 rule?

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[Obatunji McKnight]

Wow. No comment.