Sign the petition: Complete The Outer Loop of Green Lake Park

[Lee Bruch]

Sign the online petition to improve Green Lake Park by creating a complete outer loop for people biking, walking and running.

Go to https://actionnetwork.org/letters/complete-the-outer-loop-of-green-lake-park

Complete the outer loop of Green Lake Park actionnetwork.org

For additional information see https://www.glwstreets.org/complete-the-loop  and the attached.

Complete the Outer Loop — Green Lake & Wallingford Safe Streets Complete the Outer Loop www.glwstreets.org

ARC  -  Aurora Reimagined Coalition

Email: AuroraReimag...@gmail.com
Website: https://www.got99problems.org/ 

Lee Bruch

    206-355-4282 cell & text

    Lee....@outlook.com

[Lee Bruch]

Alan, you exaggerate.

 (1) the proposal will NOT affect traffic on Aurora ... the two through lanes will remail untouched. Ony th  former bus lane will be removed ... right now, if any traffic enters it, they not re-merge just south of Winona. Merging creates additional slowdowns and crashes, so it might even improve traffic throughput.

 (2) I walk Green Lake Park and Woodland Park regularly, including through the unhoused encampments. I've never had any problem, period. (One of the unfortunate things about this proposal is it will force those camper vans that are parked along the approach to Aurora to move)

Yes, the unhoused are unsightly, but it is merely a reminder of how the US as a nation is failing many of the people that it once helped. (It's not a unique Seattle problem. This unhoused problem is occurring throughout the US).

I can remember when growing up in the 1950's when my small community had two "county homes" for people who needed them. - - and that was typical throughout much of the US.  As everyone knows mental health services per population are now a fraction of what they once were, nationwide. And as major lawsuits have proven, much of the addiction crisis rests squarely with a couple of pharmaceutical companies and how they distorted the medical system.

When younger I used to wonder how one of the wealthiest nations in the world in pre-1800's (India) ended up with a mix of so impoverished and so few wealthy.  Unfortunately, I see with my own eyes how that's happening in the US.

Alan, If you really want to fix that, work at the national level to create the more just society that many wealthy countries have managed to create.  Dout don't just caterwaul   about the unhoused ... try to fix it at a national level. 

I like being able to walk  and chew gum at the same time ... and indeed, it's necessary.  I can try to make our transportation system better. And I can try to make our exclusionary zoning system better.  And I can try to make my own life better, and a lot of other things. All at the same time.

ARC  -  Aurora Reimagined Coalition

Email: AuroraReimag...@gmail.com
Website: https://www.got99problems.org/ 

Lee Bruch

    206-355-4282 cell & text

    Lee....@outlook.com

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From: aurorareimag...@googlegroups.com <aurorareimag...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of alan roth <alan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:00 PM
To: Lee Bruch <lee....@outlook.com>
Cc: ARC Google Group <aurorareimag...@googlegroups.com>; Greenwood-Phinney Greenways Google Group <greenwood-phi...@googlegroups.com>; Licton-Haller Greenways Google Group <licton-hall...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Sign the petition: Complete The Outer Loop of Green Lake Park

 

Please do NOT SIGN this petition. It isn't the right solution as it will cause more automobile traffic in Seattle and confuse the city about what is most important to its citizens.

Let's advocate for a different solution that makes our parks safe and clean.

This proposal isn't right for 2 reasons:

1) It will slow traffic on Aurora through narrower lanes, which is already congested.  This will contribute to more pollution.

2) Park safety is the priority - not slowing traffic on greenlake way.  Who wants to bike, walk, or run in a place in a park filled with people shooting guns illegally and lighting illegal fires?

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[Patrick Maunder]

I have to agree with Alan on the underlying premise, there are more urgent needs to address in this city and around Greenlake, and there exists only so much money in a budget. Maybe we can take a break from doing more of the same, in the same places, on the same streets, when a third of this city lacks sidewalks. This bicycle beltway isn't a necessity by any stretch of the imagination and it distracts from more important things than further exacerbating the street use starvation economics created by all of these special "privileged streets" projects. The new outer loop that has been created is a bike path. It's not a pedestrian walk way. Prohibit bikes on the inner loop, then maybe an outer loop becomes more pertinent, but last time I checked bicyclists can currently use all of the streets and paths that already exist around Greenlake freely. Investment in traffic and speed enforcement, cleaning up public spaces, and building more sidewalks would go much further for public and environmental health & safety than blocking off more streets for bicycles and making the car traffic someone else's problem. 

[Cathy Tuttle]

Green Lake is an exceptional park that NW Seattle residents are so lucky to have nearby. It's a jewel that's loved by people throughout the region. Green Lake Park is so loved and so crowded that it's been decades since anyone could comfortably ride a bike around it. Roller bladers, runners, children learning to bike, as well as people simply trying to safely get places by bike will all make use of a wider outer ring of Green Lake, with a bonus of keeping the recreational use of the inner path so much more usable for people taking more leisurely strolls.

Yes, there's a crying need for sidewalks and I encourage people in Licton Haller, Greenwood Phinney and Aurora to continue to advocate to the city to build more safe sidewalks -- particularly around schools and transit stops. The Green Lake path extension calls for a very minor investment of concrete blocks, at a tiny fraction of the cost of complex sidewalk work. The return on this investment of blocks would be a more usable, welcoming place for everyone who loves Green Lake Park. I'm fully supportive of this outer ring!

Cathy Tuttle

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:18 PM Patrick Maunder <pjma...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have to agree with Alan on the underlying premise, there are more urgent needs to address in this city and around Greenlake, and there exists only so much money in a budget. Maybe we can take a break from doing more of the same, in the same places, on the same streets, when a third of this city lacks sidewalks. This bicycle beltway isn't a necessity by any stretch of the imagination and it distracts from more important things than further exacerbating the street use starvation economics created by all of these special "privileged streets" projects. The new outer loop that has been created is a bike path. It's not a pedestrian walk way. Prohibit bikes on the inner loop, then maybe an outer loop becomes more pertinent, but last time I checked bicyclists can currently use all of the streets and paths that already exist around Greenlake freely. Investment in traffic and speed enforcement, cleaning up public spaces, and building more sidewalks would go much further for public and environmental health & safety than blocking off more streets for bicycles and making the car traffic someone else's problem. 

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[Daigoro Toyama (daihard)]

Every time I see an argument for more sidewalks in place of (not as well as) bike infrastructure, I'm reminded of this excellent analogy by @TheRicMan (on Twitter).

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A car driver, bicycle rider and a pedestrian are sitting around a table, which has a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The car driver takes eleven of the cookies, then turns to the pedestrian and says "Watch out! That bicycle rider wants to steal your cookie."

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Dai

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[Patrick Maunder]

In Seattle, it’s more like the bicyclists take 11 and the rest of us fight over the last one. You state things like this and wonder why there’s increasing hostility to bicyclists in this city. I’ve nearly been hit more often by entitled cyclists than cars.  

On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Daigoro Toyama (daihard) <dai...@gmail.com> wrote:

Every time I see an argument for more sidewalks in place of (not as well as) bike infrastructure, I'm reminded of this excellent analogy by @TheRicMan (on Twitter).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/licton-hallergreenways/0D01E36B-13D1-434B-9740-49AC165DD631%40gmail.com.

[Brent McFarlane]

I’m not signing the petition. I agree it might be a fun bike ride (except for inhaling the constant exhaust fumes from Aurora). I’m a frequent bicyclist. I don’t see the project as attractive for pedestrians though. We’ll need that west side lane for more transit soon anyway, no doubt. 

The outer loop project looks like a bike project primarily and not a priority considering the many urgent pedestrian and bike safety fixes needed in the region (north Seattle). The city has spent millions on the Green Lake area in recent years. 

Onward,

Brent

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[Lucia Sanchez]

I'm signing it. There's no safe way to do a loop right now with my kids. It affects us often. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/licton-hallergreenways/1A4D2E51-BAFA-4E7F-8368-79077D9704E6%40me.com.

[Brock Howell]

Wow!

When did this crash happen?

Best,

Brock Howell

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 8:48 AM D Wiegand <kdwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's not forget SAFER for all vulnerable users!

- David

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[Tanya Roesijadi]



Hi,

It looks like a lot of bikers are on this email list. I witnessed a car drive into a biker & cause them to crash last night.  It occurred within the Greenlake bike lane network. The crash happened in the bike lane at 12th NE & Ravenna Blvd last night (9/30/21) at 8 pm. I have a video of the crash.

If you know of this person & they would like this video please give it to them. I have more footage & the license #. Please have them contact me. They got up, said they were ok, didn’t hit their head & rode off. They were on an ebike & got through the next intersection. I didn’t think I could catch them on my regular bike by the time I remembered I probably had a video of the crash. Been trying to figure out how I might connect them with this video. 

Thank you,

Tanya

[Lee Bruch]

I don’t understand Gary’s logic.

There are no buses that use Aurora between where they get off to go to Linden (south of WGLWN,) and where they rejoin at Winona) And there would be no people theyd be serving in that segment.

 Right now, any cars using that lane must merge back unto the two general purpose lanes before Winona (merging causes slowdowns and collisions). 

The usual people using that lane (like me) are using the sliplane to speed down a residential street as cut-through traffic. That slip lane should go, to be replaced by a right only exit into NB aurora. The delay for me and others by going to Winona or 80th is measure in seconds, not minutes. 

I’m a strong believer in preventing cut through traffic, especially on residential streets, and having traffic only use arterials

Lee Bruch

Via clumsy thumbs on my iPhone

206-355-4282

Lee....@outlook.com

On Oct 1, 2021, at 3:20 PM, Gary Yngve <gary....@gmail.com> wrote:



"There is already a very nice bike path along Woodland Place North that continues onto Linden Avenue to Winona Ave North.  Its wide, and traffic along the street has the 25 mph speed limit unlike Aurora Ave.  It’s a much nicer place to ride and about the same distance.  Aurora Ave needs that third lane for transit and buses as well as cars.  As much as we would like them to, cars are not going away and we need to embrace the electric car revolution to reduce greenhouse gases – if we don’t we won’t curb the gases."

There is no bike lane at the underpass under Aurora.  There is a sidewalk, if it isn't taken over by tents.  Once the bike lane resumes in Linden, it is a narrow door-zone bike lane that I actually refuse to bike in.  And then Winona: no bike lane, and complicated driveways and backed up traffic around PCC.

The buses take Linden/Winona northbound, which makes a lot of sense, because any commuter getting off the bus between 55th and 70th is going somewhere to the west of Aurora.  

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On Oct 1, 2021, at 11:48 AM, Brock Howell <br...@bikehappycascadia.com> wrote:



Wow!

When did this crash happen?

Best,

Brock Howell

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 8:48 AM D Wiegand <kdwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's not forget SAFER for all vulnerable users!

<greenlakecarcrash.jpg>

- David

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[Lee Bruch]

I think the issue with many people is that someting like 20% to 30% of the block faces in seattle TOTALLY lack sidewalks, and many of the rest are unsafe or in poor conditions. Given that, where should funds be prioritized?

Mind you, it doesnt work to throw all funds at one priority. The decision is much more nuanced than that. But there is a real prioritization question that can’t be ignored.

Which also gets to the prioritization of space, and there is very limited road space. And now there’s an explosion of things demanding to use that space. Theres no longer the old horse, car, truck, bike, ped question . Now there are an infinity of manual and motor and electric driven rolling things, many at various speeds. Including robotic boxes rolling along sidewalks delivering goods. 

Where do they all fit? 

To me there are only 4 choices. Increase the right-of-way, or give less space to cars, or less space to any of the other modes, or restrict some modes.

Its going to be an interesting decade while that fight plays out

Lee Bruch

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206-355-4282

Lee....@outlook.com

On Oct 1, 2021, at 8:21 PM, Lee Bruch <lee....@gmail.com> wrote:

 I don’t understand Gary’s logic.

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[Daigoro Toyama (daihard)]

One way to deal with the new electric travel devices, such as electric scooters and skateboards, is to treat them the same as acoustic and electric bicycles. Providing adequate space for all the "wheel" users should be a viable option, provided that the electric devices are speed-governed. For instance, e-bikes are limited to 25 km/h to be allowed in the bike paths in the Netherlands.

IMO, the only sustainable choice is to increase the space for non-car travel modes. How much of the space should be allocated for people on foot vs others is another question, and it probably depends on the configuration of the street in question.

Dai

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