Intellectuals against Jordan Peterson

[Dewald Katzke]

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

[Erik Peers]

This is not dissimilar to the vitriolic attacks on Noakes in S.A.He has defied the academic omertè by entering into discussions about medicine directly  with the public; rather than with colleagues first and then only representing the official line to the public. 

A case in point is his current online discussions about vaccines. He is not anti vaccine, yet he openly discusses the dangers with the public.

And of course there is resentment from academia that his books are best sellers.

On 29 Jan 2018 9:52 PM, "Dewald Katzke" <dk.om...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

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[Hügo Krüger]

I can’t stand most intellectuals, mainly because they don’t say anything intelligent.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 21:57 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

This is not dissimilar to the vitriolic attacks on Noakes in S.A.He has defied the academic omertè by entering into discussions about medicine directly  with the public; rather than with colleagues first and then only representing the official line to the public. 

A case in point is his current online discussions about vaccines. He is not anti vaccine, yet he openly discusses the dangers with the public.

And of course there is resentment from academia that his books are best sellers.

On 29 Jan 2018 9:52 PM, "Dewald Katzke" <dk.om...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

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[Erik Peers]

And I because they seem to despise those that do.

On 29 Jan 2018 11:09 PM, "Hügo Krüger" <hkrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can’t stand most intellectuals, mainly because they don’t say anything intelligent.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 21:57 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

This is not dissimilar to the vitriolic attacks on Noakes in S.A.He has defied the academic omertè by entering into discussions about medicine directly  with the public; rather than with colleagues first and then only representing the official line to the public. 

A case in point is his current online discussions about vaccines. He is not anti vaccine, yet he openly discusses the dangers with the public.

And of course there is resentment from academia that his books are best sellers.

On 29 Jan 2018 9:52 PM, "Dewald Katzke" <dk.om...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

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[Hügo Krüger]

A quote frol Jeff Bezos always sticks to me: “if you want people to criticize you then just try something different”. Politicians and public intellectuals are parrots by their nature. Every now and then a few good ones like Jordan Peterson, Thomas Sowell and Steven Pinker comes along and changes my few on the world a bit. For the most part I like to think for myself and take responsibility for my own world view.

Public intellectuals and priests are not that much different. They are both annoying and would like to prescribe for you what to think.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 22:20 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

And I because they seem to despise those that do.

On 29 Jan 2018 11:09 PM, "Hügo Krüger" <hkrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can’t stand most intellectuals, mainly because they don’t say anything intelligent.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 21:57 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

This is not dissimilar to the vitriolic attacks on Noakes in S.A.He has defied the academic omertè by entering into discussions about medicine directly  with the public; rather than with colleagues first and then only representing the official line to the public. 

A case in point is his current online discussions about vaccines. He is not anti vaccine, yet he openly discusses the dangers with the public.

And of course there is resentment from academia that his books are best sellers.

On 29 Jan 2018 9:52 PM, "Dewald Katzke" <dk.om...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

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[Garth Zietsman]

I think it is more complicated than that.  

For a start I don't think it's helpful to have as your default that academics are idiots, parrots or wrong or that the academic consensus (such as it is) is mistaken.  For all their faults (the big one being that they are tribalist like the rest of us) they do tend to be smart people who pay much more attention to their subject matter than lay persons.  It would be extremely strange if they didn't actually know a thing or two for real.

Secondly there are an awful lot of flakes out there who honestly think they are on to something revolutionary or know better than anyone else despite being uneducated or even because of it.  Picking out the real deal among them is tough and extremely unreliable because the real deal is a rare case.  It works like this - if something has an incidence of 2% and your method of identifying that something is 90% accurate then when your method signals positive you are only 0.9*0.02/(0.9*0.02+0.1*0.98)=0.155 (< 1 in 6) likely to have identified a real something.  It has to do with false positives swamping the real signal with rare events.  In other words if you think you have identified the real deal renegade intellectual the chances are high that you are mistaken.  I'm loath to say this but the incidence of real deal renegade intellectuals among the flakes is probably far less than 2% and your agreement with, or liking of, the person is probably also less than 90% accurate as a test method.  Using my Smart Vote research I'd say that even the best of us probably only has a 66% accuracy.

So the mere fact that some intellectual (who says things you like) faces criticism from established academics does not automatically mean the academics are wrong and your favored intellectual is right.  Statistically speaking the opposite stands a very good chance of being true.

The probability however is not by any means 100% and group speak does occur - as do intellectual revolutions brought on by outsiders - and it is important to identify them.  Spotting the inefficiencies and the real revolutionary is tricky and a very highly unreliable process.   

I think it is important to inform and think for yourself but at the same time it is a mistake to consider your own thinking as 100% reliable.  In fact, because of time constraints it is essential to outsource most of your thinking.  That means you should evaluate the reliability of your outside source and I'd say that must involve some kind of meta thinking where you step outside your own mind and view your thinking as just one of many possible equally good views.  Ideally you need to find and rely on a range of reliable thinkers who often disagree with you. I reiterate that establishment academics are not automatically unreliable thinkers and renegade outsiders are not automatically reliable - not even if you dislike the former and like the latter because believe it or not you too (and me) are biased.

On 29 January 2018 at 23:54, Hügo Krüger <hkrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

A quote frol Jeff Bezos always sticks to me: “if you want people to criticize you then just try something different”. Politicians and public intellectuals are parrots by their nature. Every now and then a few good ones like Jordan Peterson, Thomas Sowell and Steven Pinker comes along and changes my few on the world a bit. For the most part I like to think for myself and take responsibility for my own world view.

Public intellectuals and priests are not that much different. They are both annoying and would like to prescribe for you what to think.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 22:20 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

And I because they seem to despise those that do.

On 29 Jan 2018 11:09 PM, "Hügo Krüger" <hkrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can’t stand most intellectuals, mainly because they don’t say anything intelligent.

Op Ma., 29 Jan. 2018 om 21:57 het Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> geskryf:

This is not dissimilar to the vitriolic attacks on Noakes in S.A.He has defied the academic omertè by entering into discussions about medicine directly  with the public; rather than with colleagues first and then only representing the official line to the public. 

A case in point is his current online discussions about vaccines. He is not anti vaccine, yet he openly discusses the dangers with the public.

And of course there is resentment from academia that his books are best sellers.

On 29 Jan 2018 9:52 PM, "Dewald Katzke" <dk.om...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://fee.org/articles/many-intellectuals-cant-stand-jordan-peterson-why/

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[Gavin Weiman]

IS that some sort of Bayesian math?

Gavin Weiman

gavin....@icloud.com

http://www.weiman.co.za
Cel: 082 510 0186

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[Hügo Krüger]

To be honest Garth, my criticism comes from hours of argument against the NG dominees. I still can't stand them and the public intelectuals strike me as the same personality types. It is a personal bias which might hamper me a bit. The second criticism against me is that these people very often have never left public institutions and worked in what most of us call "the real world". They however claim to be experts on our society. 

The last one is that they not very often experts in the field that they go public. 

Betrand Russal was a mathematician, Noam Chomsky is a linguist. I would consult them on mathematics and linguistics respectively. Their opinion on how society work is often as good as mine and yours.

This is why I do read Steven Pinker and Jordan Peterson on psycology, Thomas Sowell on economics etc 

[Graeme Levin]

The recent controversy surrounding Jordan Peterson centres around his lecturing about the danger to free expression through government-imposed acceptable pronoun usage.

He is quite happy to voluntarily address a transgender person as they or whatever, but baulks at being forced into a prescribed usage. For this he is branded and discriminated against especially by his fellow professors and the student bodies.

 

The matter escalated when an enthusiastic young university lecturer, Lauren Shepherd, merely presented Jordan Peterson's thoughts to her class as one side of the discussion. She didn't support or promote these ideas. Her reward for exposing her students to these dangerous thoughts was to be relieved of her lecturing duties.

 

This is symptomatic of the closing down of free speech on campuses and the extensive brainwashing of young minds.

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[Hügo Krüger]

It sounds a lot as if reality TV culture is now creeping into academia. A lot of he said, she said gossip. This is where I shut down.

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[Stephen vJ]

Have you read “Intellectuals and society” by Thomas Sowell ? If not, I strongly recommend it.

S.

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[Garth Zietsman]

The example was Bayesian Gavin.

Anyone speaking outside their field (even Nobel laureates) should be thought of as a bright lay person - maybe they know something real but the chances are against it.

Graeme the question of values and free speech is different from issues of fact or technical policy.  I agree there is a left wing bias in academia (at least in conservative or centrist countries - apparently in Sweden academics are less left wing than average) and this bias has nothing to do with expertise.  I have seen a lot of attempted suppression of research in the IQ field - and it has been ongoing since at least the 60s.