Long time no smell

Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 21, 2024, 6:10:01 PMApr 21

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Hey buds. I muted this group a while back to focus on some personal challenges... what's been happening while I was away ? Anyone want to take a stab at summarizing life & developments since 2018-ish ?

S.

Gail Daus-van Wyk

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Apr 22, 2024, 3:59:17 AMApr 22

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Good morning from South Africa.

I’m assuming you are still in the northern hemisphere?

Good to hear from you Stephen but there is no way I’m going to attempt a summary. There is a WhatsApp group and I dip into it here and there. Too time consuming otherwise. But always interesting and often controversial as only libertarians can be.

Anyways, on the more personal front, my husband has been the mayor of the growing city of George in the Western Cape for the past 4 years and will be moving up to provincial parliament after the election.

I now have two grand daughters and keep my brain active but should do more so with the old body.

I’m sure Trevor or Charl will bring you up to speed. They seem to have the most time.

Beste

Gail

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On 22 Apr 2024, at 00:10, Stephen van Jaarsveldt <sjaar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey buds. I muted this group a while back to focus on some personal challenges... what's been happening while I was away ? Anyone want to take a stab at summarizing life & developments since 2018-ish ?

S.

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Trevor Watkins

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Apr 23, 2024, 4:49:11 AMApr 23

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Hi Stephen

Here is a summary from 2018 forward.

We got this flu thing in 2020 and everything went to shit. Well, that's about it.

On the libsa@googlegroups side, we had this pretty functional system from about 2005 forwards. It catered for long form, persistent conversations structured around meaningful topics. You can research Jim Harris's opinions to this day. Then whatsapp came along (I plead guilty to starting the Libertarians group in 2015, but it was just meant to help us decide where to have dinner at the J Bay libsem). Now we have a very short form system (most inputs less than 100 characters)with no persistence (try to find anything from last week) and no historical context (Jim who?). But it provides instant gratification and EMOJIS. What could go wrong?

I have been trying to get libertarians and individualists to adopt Discord, which has structured channels, long term persistence and searchability, and all the characteristics of whatsapp (instant gratification, video and speech channels, managed threads, etc.) But its a bit hard so no takers.

regards

Trevor Watkins
bas...@gmail.com - 083 44 11 721 - www.individualist.one

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 24, 2024, 12:53:33 AMApr 24

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Thanks for the update Trevor. Many people complain about email, but almost as soon as it was developed, email became the #1 business tool used in almost every business across every industry across the world and has remained the #1 business tool for almost an entire generation. It clearly works. It is unlikely to be displaced by any specific tool, even good ones like Whatsapp, Skype, Discord, etc...

Personally, I prefer the long form exchange - it has a lot more depth and meaning. I also like the ability to search archives and refer back to previous conversations. I did try Discord and watched a number of the old LibSem videos you posted there via YouTube... but I could not figure out how to save, share or have a conversation about it in Discord... there was no "Reply All" button. ;-)

On a personal note, we have now been in Canada for 7 years. We became citizens towards the end of 2022, so it seems to be sticking. My kids both finished school and are at university now. Immigration was harder than I anticipated, but here we are. I'm still working for a local retailer and I've converted my radio license to a Canadian one, so I'm back on the air... and part of the local radio club.

And that's most of what I'm up to... work and radio. My health has not been good, but that's a story for another day. When we just got here, I attended the local Libertarian monthly dinners for a while, but I felt like they were not as tempered by oppression i.e. conversations just did not have the philosophical depth that I had gotten used to in SA. The SA Libertarians are a special group of people.

S.

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 24, 2024, 1:26:24 AMApr 24

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Bssn 8 years in France, I got married (my wife is from Iran) I also became a French citizen last year. Furthermore I am blogging a bit, about geopolitics, energy and clinate. I also have a YouTube channel that generates a small side income.

I have been heavily involved in the energy sector and nuclear new builds in particular (state planning). Both as work and in the public debate

In the last year or so I started looking into Eskom's decline and did a series of interviews with people all over the supply chain. I wrote a list of articles as to why it fails.

As for whatsup, I am actually withdrawing a bit and only keeping in the energy groups. It gets too much and I have an obsession with not letting a conversation go.

It's nice to hear again from you Stephen and I am glad that Canada is working out for you.

Regards

Hügo

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Gail Daus-van Wyk

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Apr 24, 2024, 4:08:10 AMApr 24

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Question for you Stephen. When you became a Canadian citizen , did SA home affairs strip you of your SA citizenship?

Do you know if they have?

There has been a long running court case here which has now reached some sort of finality, that ruled that doing so was illegal. It seems that for years, when SA citizens have applied for citizenship of another country, officials have unlawfully cancelled SA citizenship.

I would be interested to hear your experience.

Regards

Gail

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On 24 Apr 2024, at 06:53, Stephen van Jaarsveldt <sjaar...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Trevor Watkins

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Apr 24, 2024, 9:23:44 AMApr 24

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I did try Discord and watched a number of the old LibSem videos you posted there via YouTube... but I could not figure out how to save, share or have a conversation about it in Discord... there was no "Reply All" button. ;-)

I have discovered that facilities in Discord are so blindingly obvious that no one sees them. Everybody logged in on a discord server can see everything all the time. To comment on a particular video, (or article or comment), just type in the reply line at the bottom of the screen (Has a "+" on the left) and says "Send a message in {channel name}. Everyone can see it and reply in same way.

In text channels (name prefixed by a hash #) you can start a thread by clicking on the cotton reel at top of screen.

Trevor Watkins
bas...@gmail.com - 083 44 11 721 - www.individualist.one

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 25, 2024, 2:59:29 PMApr 25

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Thanks for the update Hugo ! It's hard to believe it has been that long and congratulations on the marriage... I saw some of your blog posts and YouTube activities over the last year or three, but totally missed you getting hitched. ;-)

I have the same problem with not being able to let a good conversation go, which is why I ejected myself from all social media and limited WhatsApp to only close friends & family a year or two ago. It has helped.

That said, the idea was that I would use the time saved scrolling mindless nonsense to keep in contact with people directly and individually... turns out I suck at that. :-D

S.

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 25, 2024, 3:47:20 PMApr 25

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We found that every country is a little bit different... the default setting seems to be that you are a citizen of the country you are born in until you specifically request for it to be revoked (even after being revoked, you typically retain residence of that country, even if you no longer have citizenship) and if you apply for another country's citizenship you typically keep the old one... and then, if you're in a place which needs to be evacuated, your birth country takes precedence when deciding who should evacuate you... and if you have multiple citizenships, then priority is in the sequence you got them.

So, for example, if you were born in Ciskei, then became a citizen of the RSA, then became a citizen of Botswana and then a citizen of Kazakhstan... then went on holiday to Haiti, that place had some kind of military coup & break-out of civil war, you could be in a situation where all commercial flights are cancelled, the Ciskei no longer exists, RSA supports the rebels and see no need to evacuate their citizens and Kazakhstan has no diplomatic connections with Haiti, in which case it's up to Botswana to evacuate you. They could decline and refer you back to RSA because of precedence i.e. you're stuck.

That's the default situation though and many countries have laws and regulations that deviate from that basic framework. Germany, for example, does not allow dual or multi-citizenship at all... so in order to apply for German citizenship, you have to first cancel all other citizenships you have. They will not let you get German citizenship until you have proof that all other citizenships have been renounced. I know this because my parents just did it... by the way, getting the RSA government to let go is not easy - don't know if you guys have noticed, but the RSA government sucks at paperwork submitted by ordinary citizens and is tremendously slow with it.

Canada is interesting, because the default is a) you cannot hold dual citizenship without specifically requesting it and giving a good reason... so when you apply for citizenship, Canada will automatically request for all your previous citizenships to be canceled - they do the application / request for you, unless you requested otherwise and b) if you are under the age of 18, you cannot consent to having citizenship of another country revoked, so they won't do the cancellation request for you if you're under 18... so over 18 you lose it, under 18 you keep it. For under-18s the oath of citizenship is also optional.

That put us in an interesting position in that my wife, my oldest daughter and I all got our RSA citizenship automatically revoked by the Canadian process, while my youngest daughter initially looked like she was going to keep her RSA citizenship and was told that she could request to have it revoked when she turned 18. Picture spelunking in Iceland, there is a volcanic eruption... would you want Pretoria to evacuate you to OR Thambo if your house is in Canada ? She was planning to revoke asap. Covid then delayed the actual oath and she opted to take it with us, so she was 18 by the time they actually issued the certificates and thus her RSA citizenship ended too. That's the Canadian side of the story...

RSA in the meantime started making changes to their rules, so since 2018-ish you cannot travel into or out of RSA using the passport of another country, if you hold an RSA passport - if you hold one, you have to use it. So if I kept my RSA citizenship, I would not be able to enter RSA with my Canadian passport... and would have to travel a quarter of the diameter of the earth and wait 18 months to get an RSA passport via the nearest consulate in order to travel to RSA. Other countries require you to use the same passport for an entire trip... so if RSA is anywhere on the itinerary, then you must travel the entire trip on an RSA passport or get locked out of others. This complicates things immensely.

It is clear that RSA wants people to either remain RSA citizens exclusively or leave completely... and so do many other countries. They don't outlaw it specifically, but they make it very hard to hold dual citizenship. Secondly, the case you mentioned below was specifically aimed at places like Germany and Canada which disallow or strongly discourage dual citizenship... but I'm afraid the people who started that legal action clearly did not get how this stuff works. You can sue the RSA government for cancelling your citizenship and they can stop doing that automatically (if they ever did), but that does absolutely nothing to the Canadian rules and has no applicability outside of RSA.

Germany still requires cancellation and Canada will do so automatically unless under 18 or specifically requested otherwise... that is clearly stated in the German and Canadian citizenship applications. Regardless of what RSA says, Germany will not let you become a citizen without requesting cancellation from RSA and when you apply for Canadian citizenship, Canada will request from RSA to cancel your citizenship and RSA will process that request. I get how some people may not have read all the fine-print, assumed they would keep their RSA citizenship and were then surprised to find later that it was gone. That's what happens when you do not read.

S.

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 25, 2024, 3:51:47 PMApr 25

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I kept my RSA citizenship, because it's easier to get into Iran with it than with a French one. There are few countries where the green mamba has an advantage (Russia too recently),

so I see that as a good advantage.

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 25, 2024, 3:59:31 PMApr 25

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I recently tried explaining to someone the difference between Microsoft Project and a popular open-source Gantt chart tool, the name of which I don't recall right now. He pointed to all the key features and how both tools had them. I pointed to the two things MS Project can do which the open-source version cannot. The gap might seem trivial, but if you're working with the tool every day, the missing features become deal-breakers despite the other 95% of the features being available. That explains why people would pay the R 20 000 per year license fee for MS Project rather than use the free download option... the key is in the missing 2%, not the overlapping 98%.

Discord may have all the basics, but if I'm not able to flag something as unread so I can come back to it later and move it to a folder of my choosing, then I'm probably out entirely. Now, if it was just me, then I would say maybe this is me being old and stubborn and not paying attention, etc.... but looking at the continuing success of email as compared to other tools like Teams, BaseCamp, DropBox, WhatsApp, Discord, FireBase, Trello, etc., etc... I think the tribe has spoken. It looks to me like a relatively free market has made a choice and that choice seems to be email (and TikTok). We can kick and scream and criticise, but I'm starting to see what Harry Browne was saying.

S.

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Erik Peers

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:00:58 PMApr 25

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Hugo, do you care for Eskom out of technical, academic interest; or do you care because it is South Africa?

I guess what I am really asking, is when you leave and take up citizenship elsewhere do you leave totally, or does some part of you remain in your home country?

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:06:23 PMApr 25

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It does make sense in many cases and I think if we were in Europe, I would strongly have considered keeping RSA citizenship. Other reasons could include business relationships... travelling to China on a Canadian passport, for example, is not a great idea right now. Travelling to Zimbabwe on a British passport is bad too, by the way.

S.

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Erik Peers

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:07:16 PMApr 25

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I do more and more business on WhatsApp nowadays. My clients and prospects drive it. It has the advantage of immediate attention grabbing. Plus, generally I can see if someone has read my messages or not.

However for any serious correspondence eg sending a contract I use email for historical record.

But then I send a WhatsApp telling the other that I have sent them an email, so that they will look for the email.

It seems not to be either or, but both.

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Stephen van Jaarsveldt

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:12:32 PMApr 25

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I suspect there are some cultural and maybe even economic factors here... hardly anyone around here uses WhatsApp, possibly because text messaging over cellular networks is free. I see Teams being used more and more for business, especially now that they've made it easier to communicate across companies in Teams. Faced with some competition, it is not necessarily WhatsApp, but I do see a lot more real-time messaging being used in parallel to email.

S.

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:14:59 PMApr 25

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Whatsup is popular in SA. In France, facebook communication stuck for a long time.

For business everyone is using skype nowadays. We also have our own peer to peer software in the office to try and keep the nuclear secrets (that you can find on wikipedia) away from the Russian, Chinese or whoever the latest panic the jour is.

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:17:26 PMApr 25

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Here is a SA libertarian question.

Did the Kruger Millions ever exist?

I discovered last night that Paul Kruger gave gold coins to Frances Ecole de Mine (school of mining), which does make sense.

https://hkrugertjie.substack.com/p/paul-kruger-se-boek-aan-parys?utm_campaign=reaction&utm_medium=email&utm_source=substack&utm_content=post

Erik Peers

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:17:47 PMApr 25

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It's easier to send memes via WhatsApp.

I think the most common post on FaceBook is kittens, on WhatsApp it's memes. Maybe not for corporate comms, yet for individuals that's how it works. That is why email is not as popular.

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Erik Peers

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Apr 25, 2024, 4:21:18 PMApr 25

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No one uses Skype in SA. Zoom is the flavour de jour. The conformity within a country and differences between countries is interesting.

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Stephen vJ

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Apr 25, 2024, 11:03:17 PMApr 25

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I'm curious to know Hugo's answer on this one - it's a very good question. Speaking only for myself, I would say that I have mostly left totally... I mean, people notice the accent and one always carries the history of upbringing, home life, culture, schooling, etc. but I've tried to become Canadian and to let go of the past... I cannot say that I am particularly interested in South African politics or parastatals or even economics... but that is definitely the exception to the rule, judging by most other expats around here. Folks hold gatherings and start clubs and form communities - there is a Punjabi cricket club a bit to the North of us and a Ukrainian food market a bit West of here... and there is a bunch of South Africans dealing in clandestine exchanges of Kurt Darren albums a few kilometers to the South East. People take vacations to the old country... I don't know how they afford it and if I had the money, I'd much rather go to Aruba or Hawaii or Colorado. That's just me though.

Stephen.

On Apr 25, 2024, at 14:01, Erik Peers <erik...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 26, 2024, 12:17:22 AMApr 26

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Eskom is just a hobby interest, because I worked and wrote about energy a few colleagues asked me what went wrong with Eskom. I actually stopped after I got the message to set in that it came down go government not doing maintenance despite having sufficient capacity.

I started blogging about energy and climate in general (which is a hobby), then before I knew it I was interviewed on national TV as SAs "energy expert". Been kn RSG, Newsweek Africa, SABC etc now ans I enjoy public debate.

I still keep links to SA, but like Stephen I have avoided the SA expat community gatherings. Also France comes with the additional advantage that you need to speak French and that opened up travel to the French speaking work.

We don't have kids yet (Stephen's point about why I can afford travel), so we do take many of our holidays in SA or Iran.

My wife and I have parents that are getting old, so we thought it's best to spend more time with them.

Other than that, I enjoy the cosmopolitan life in Paris.

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Stephen vJ

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Apr 26, 2024, 1:29:37 AMApr 26

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To be fair, Eskom is apparently just a hobby to those running it too. ;-)

Kids and pets are definitely a big part of why we don't travel... that, and the fact that a) my parents do have the means to come visit us and b) my wife basically broke ties with her parents... and then Covid killed her mom.

People also under-estimate the impact of distance and time-zones... at least France is a single 12 hour flight within approximately the same time-zone. Nobody in SA is awake when we are and travel is at least 36 hours one way. That is a bigger barrier than most people realize.

I have lost 3 close relatives so far whose last days and memorial services I could not attend. Immigration is harder than it looks. Most of the time I appreciate having power, fast internet, zero crime and a good night's sleep... but it comes at a pretty high price.

Stephen.

On Apr 25, 2024, at 22:17, Hügo Krüger <hkrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Maria D'Amico

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Apr 26, 2024, 2:02:34 AMApr 26

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In South Africa, zoom is used for social interaction and Microsoft teams is used for business.

Some financial banks are against zoom. In fact, First National Bank blocks zoom on their premises and staff members cannot access zoom on the FNB premises at all, even if zoom is installed on their phones for their personal use.

.

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Hügo Krüger

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Apr 26, 2024, 2:03:47 AMApr 26

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My sister stays in Tokyo and I don't communicate with her as much as my parents. Timezone definitely plays a role.

So French Salaries are generally

speaking lower than in the US and within range of the UK. But there are trade-offs and they don't include social welfare.

We decided to stay in France for a few reasons, we even bought an apartment not that long ago.

1. Nuclear is in my field.

2. The timezone is identical with SA and only 2.5 hours out with Iran making communication easier.

3. I actually like the French business culture, because they actually put more emphasis on engineering expertise than MBAs.

4. Trains, I always thought the time spent driving in SA was a waste. It gives me 2 hours of reading.

The trade-offs being.

1. Speaking French at work, English to eachother and our own languages back home can be tiring mentally.

2. Lack of space, public transport us convenient but it comes at the cost of having to live in meerkat zoned areas.

3. Missing family deaths (my sister's passing hit me hard).

4. Kids, if we have any, might grow up without grandparents.

France recently advanced working from home and there are plants to "work from abroad". In my previous company I spent 2 weeks working from South Africa.

Working from Iran is unfortunately sanctioned and their internet is highly slow because it is so controlled.

But ideally we would like to move between the countries.

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Petrus Potgieter

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Apr 26, 2024, 2:29:02 AMApr 26

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Family is the main reason why I do not regret having remained in SA. It is worth a lot and I see the issues around me with families where an entire generation has emigrated. I know a lucky few where the entire family left (hysterically, just after selling off the baked bean stockpile in the 1990s – and I no longer look askance at it) and they are very happy.

I am now too old to leave except as a retiree. Since I do not have children, I have not (fortunately) propagated the problem. I also have friends around my age who feel bad about not having taken their children out of the country. Not all children are going to be ambitious and/or resourceful enough to do it themselves. It is complicated and I think Stephen is right about the price of leaving being high. I only hope that I am right about the price of staying here – that all the negatives are visible, but I am probably an optimist from this point of view.

It seems to me that the ideal would be the highly mobile lifestyle that Hügo suggests but that is basically an option only for the childless. The fact that Hügo's children will grow up without grandparents means that their children will probably have grandparents, at least.

SA is interesting to me and basically I like it here but I acknowledge that you need to be fairly robust and able-bodied, most of the time, to enjoy it. A bit like an ice bath.

Op 26-04-2024 om 08:03:32 +0200 skryf Hügo Krüger hkrug...@gmail.com:

> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024, 07:29 Stephen vJ, <[1]sjaar...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> To be fair, Eskom is apparently just a hobby to those running it too.
> ;-)
> Kids and pets are definitely a big part of why we don't travel... that,
> and the fact that a) my parents do have the means to come visit us and
> b) my wife basically broke ties with her parents... and then Covid
> killed her mom.
> People also under-estimate the impact of distance and time-zones... at
> least France is a single 12 hour flight within approximately the same
> time-zone. Nobody in SA is awake when we are and travel is at least 36
> hours one way. That is a bigger barrier than most people realize.
> I have lost 3 close relatives so far whose last days and memorial
> services I could not attend. Immigration is harder than it looks. Most
> of the time I appreciate having power, fast internet, zero crime and a
> good night's sleep... but it comes at a pretty high price.
> Stephen.

> On Apr 25, 2024, at 22:17, Hügo Krüger <[2]hkrug...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> Eskom is just a hobby interest, because I worked and wrote about energy
> a few colleagues asked me what went wrong with Eskom. I actually
> stopped after I got the message to set in that it came down go
> government not doing maintenance despite having sufficient capacity.
> I started blogging about energy and climate in general (which is a
> hobby), then before I knew it I was interviewed on national TV as SAs
> "energy expert". Been kn RSG, Newsweek Africa, SABC etc now ans I enjoy
> public debate.
> I still keep links to SA, but like Stephen I have avoided the SA expat
> community gatherings. Also France comes with the additional advantage
> that you need to speak French and that opened up travel to the French
> speaking work.
> We don't have kids yet (Stephen's point about why I can afford travel),
> so we do take many of our holidays in SA or Iran.
> My wife and I have parents that are getting old, so we thought it's
> best to spend more time with them.
> Other than that, I enjoy the cosmopolitan life in Paris.

> On Fri, 26 Apr 2024, 05:03 Stephen vJ, <[3]sjaar...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> I'm curious to know Hugo's answer on this one - it's a very good
> question. Speaking only for myself, I would say that I have mostly left
> totally... I mean, people notice the accent and one always carries the
> history of upbringing, home life, culture, schooling, etc. but I've
> tried to become Canadian and to let go of the past... I cannot say that
> I am particularly interested in South African politics or parastatals
> or even economics... but that is definitely the exception to the rule,
> judging by most other expats around here. Folks hold gatherings and
> start clubs and form communities - there is a Punjabi cricket club a
> bit to the North of us and a Ukrainian food market a bit West of
> here... and there is a bunch of South Africans dealing in clandestine
> exchanges of Kurt Darren albums a few kilometers to the South East.
> People take vacations to the old country... I don't know how they
> afford it and if I had the money, I'd much rather go to Aruba or Hawaii
> or Colorado. That's just me though.
> Stephen.

> On Apr 25, 2024, at 14:01, Erik Peers <[4]erik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hugo, do you care for Eskom out of technical, academic interest; or do
> you care because it is South Africa?
> I guess what I am really asking, is when you leave and take up
> citizenship elsewhere do you leave totally, or does some part of you
> remain in your home country?

> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024, 21:51 Hügo Krüger, <[5]hkrug...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> I kept my RSA citizenship, because it's easier to get into Iran with it
> than with a French one. There are few countries where the green mamba
> has an advantage (Russia too recently),
> so I see that as a good advantage.
>
> Op Do. 25 Apr. 2024 om 21:47 het Stephen van Jaarsveldt

> <[6]sjaar...@gmail.com> geskryf:

> <[7]li...@googlegroups.com> geskryf:

>
> Question for you Stephen. When you became a Canadian citizen , did SA
> home affairs strip you of your SA citizenship?
> Do you know if they have?
> There has been a long running court case here which has now reached
> some sort of finality, that ruled that doing so was illegal. It seems
> that for years, when SA citizens have applied for citizenship of
> another country, officials have unlawfully cancelled SA citizenship.
> I would be interested to hear your experience.
> Regards
> Gail
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 24 Apr 2024, at 06:53, Stephen van Jaarsveldt

> Op Di. 23 Apr. 2024 om 02:49 het Trevor Watkins <[9]bas...@gmail.com>

> geskryf:
>
> Hi Stephen
> Here is a summary from 2018 forward.
> We got this flu thing in 2020 and everything went to shit. Well, that's
> about it.
> On the libsa@googlegroups side, we had this pretty functional system
> from about 2005 forwards. It catered for long form, persistent
> conversations structured around meaningful topics. You can research Jim
> Harris's opinions to this day. Then whatsapp came along (I plead guilty
> to starting the Libertarians group in 2015, but it was just meant to
> help us decide where to have dinner at the J Bay libsem). Now we have a
> very short form system (most inputs less than 100 characters)with no
> persistence (try to find anything from last week) and no historical
> context (Jim who?). But it provides instant gratification and EMOJIS.
> What could go wrong?
> I have been trying to get libertarians and individualists to adopt
> Discord, which has structured channels, long term persistence and
> searchability, and all the characteristics of whatsapp (instant
> gratification, video and speech channels, managed threads, etc.) But
> its a bit hard so no takers.
> regards
> Trevor Watkins

> [10]bas...@gmail.com - 083 44 11 721 - www.individualist.one

>
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:59, 'Gail Daus-van Wyk' via LibertarianSA
> <[11]li...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Good morning from South Africa.
> I’m assuming you are still in the northern hemisphere?
> Good to hear from you Stephen but there is no way I’m going to attempt
> a summary. There is a WhatsApp group and I dip into it here and there.
> Too time consuming otherwise. But always interesting and often
> controversial as only libertarians can be.
> Anyways, on the more personal front, my husband has been the mayor of
> the growing city of George in the Western Cape for the past 4 years and
> will be moving up to provincial parliament after the election.
> I now have two grand daughters and keep my brain active but should do
> more so with the old body.
> I’m sure Trevor or Charl will bring you up to speed. They seem to have
> the most time.
> Beste
> Gail
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 22 Apr 2024, at 00:10, Stephen van Jaarsveldt

> <[12]sjaar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey buds. I muted this group a while back to focus on some personal
> challenges... what's been happening while I was away ? Anyone want to
> take a stab at summarizing life & developments since 2018-ish ?
> S.
>
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