Packet radio?

[James Stone]

I'm just getting a packet radio system set up and would like to connect to your nodes. Would you be able to help?

You can reply here or message me on the GB7CIP BBS.

Thanks,

James M0JMX

[Sam Keating-Fry]

Hi James,

Certainly! Where are you located?

GB7NWG is located in Wood Green, but should be reachable throughout
London with a decent antenna.

Looks like it crashed at some point, so apologies if you'd been trying
to get on. It'a up and running again now.

Thanks,
Sam M0SKF

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[James Stone]

Hi Sam,

Sounds good. I'm based in Archway so shouldn't be too difficult. I am also planning on building a tnc-pi so I can have it switched on 24/7 (pending NOV I presume..)

What frequency is GB7NWG on and is it just a question of connecting to it via the packet terminal? (I'm very new to all this)

Are you ever on the London repeaters or DMR for Hackspace group discussions?

73

James M0JMX

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[Sam Keating-Fry]

Hi James,

It's on 144.925MHz. It beacons every 10mins, so tune in and see if you
can hear it.

The easiest way to connect is with a dedicated TNC, which you would
connect to via a serial console. This will give you a very
straightforward command prompt for connecting to remote stations.

We have some club TNCs, which you'd be welcome to borrow. You'd just
need to make an appropriate cable to connect it to your radio.

You can also connect using, a linux machine (or vm) and a KISS TNC.
This uses the AX.25 support built into the linux kernel, but this can
be more complicated to configure and is probably best saved for later
down the line.

We did have a little hackspace DMR net going at one point, but that
hasn't happened for a while. We mainly hang out on IRC (#lhs-radio on
freenode). More than happy to get on air and discuss though.

Cheers,
Sam M0SKF

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[James Stone]

Hi Sam,

Yes - I'm connected now. All working fine. I have got direwolf set up as TNC and linpac as the packet terminal. Paul (G4APL) helped me a lot with connecting to his system and getting the TCP/IP routing set correctly, and a lot of hacking around getting the headset socket working on my laptop and fiddling with volume levels later I managed to get a reasonably stable and consistent connection. I think GB7NWG is much closer though, so should be possible to connect via a baofeng plus the tnc-pi ( https://www.tnc-x.com/TNCPi.htm ).

If anyone is interested, I'm happy to share my experience of getting direwolf and linpac working under linux with the FT-736R.

Not yet got the kit for the tnc-pi - in the post - and annoyingly it looks like I am going to be charged customs charges and VAT, so not so cheap - but a nice little project.

I will get irc up and running on my phone (not sure I've used IRC much since the late 90s!)

James M0JMX

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[James Stone]

Hi Sam,

Is GB7NWG still running?

James

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 7:42 PM Sam Keating-Fry <sam...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Sam Keating-Fry]

Hi James,

It had to go QRT temporarily as the NoV expired.
It will be up and running again very soon.

Thanks,
Sam M0SKF

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[James Stone]

That's great. Thanks Sam!

I've also just built a tnc-pi driving a baofeng which seems to be working (I can communicate between that and my other radio) however, plugging the main antenna into the baofeng overloads the front end (I think) and I can't hear anything on APRS frequencies or GB7CIP. The stock antenna is also not up to the job. My last experiment will be trying an indoor slim Jim but not expecting much!

I am going to connect up to my ft817 when I get the right cable but it seems a shame that the baofeng doesn't work at all (maybe not surprising). Do you have any thoughts on anything else I could try?

73

James M0JMX

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[Phyllis Pischke]

Please take me off this mailing list

Pis...@alumni.princeton.edu

Phyllis Pischke 

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[Oliver de Peyer]

I have taken my FM handheld out to tea with me. I know I can't raise any nodes from inside my flat, and efforts to build a kit ZL yagi ended badly.

So! While I sip my earl grey, what nodes etc could I tune into? I have bought my laptop all set up with ax25 etc but to be honest I can't remember how to set it up (soundmodem first etc?)

If I could at least hear a node from here (it's a nice café and I'm here regularly) then I could do something new with my hobby for once!

BW

Ol

M0LVR

[James Stone]

The only one I can get to is GB3CIP - frequencies 144.9375, 432.675, 433.625(now destroyed by qrm at my qth).

James M0JMX

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[James Stone]

You can buy a tnc-pi from the US either built or as a kit. Unfortunately I got stung with import duty for an extra £16 so it was not as much of a bargain as it looks. Nice little project to build, but I think it's easier to get packet radio using software first.

The first thing you should do though is make sure you can hear output on those frequencies with the radio and antenna you are planning to use, as my baofeng definitely doesn't seem up to the job (I have it working with my ft736r but nothingness heard on the baofeng).

J

On Sat, 8 Jun 2019, 17:59 Oliver de Peyer, <go.ver...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Thanks James, but on this occasion it all fell at the first hurdle since I couldn't even get the default audio working on my laptop!

So what about these TNC thingies then? Can I buy one from someone?

Kind regards

Ol

M0LVR

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the EE network.

From: James Stone <james...@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2019 17:41 To: lhs-...@googlegroups.com Reply To: lhs-...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lhs-radio] Packet radio?

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[Oliver de Peyer]

Thanks for the advice James.

After many a mis-spent hour this afternoon, I finally got my laptop back to where it been before, i.e I divined the runes of how to set up alsa, plughw:0,0 etc and ran all the various things in the right order (created an axports file, ran soundmodemconfig, then soundmodem, then kissattach of the resultant /dev/soundmodem0 to the axport name I had created in the file) and with my fingers definitely crossed, used axcall with my axport name and my laptop said "squawkkkkk" out of its speakers in a convincing manner as it tried to call the callsign I had used as an example. I am only trying KISS.

Confused? Then I am just as confused as you are. This soundmodem and ax25 lark is a real pig.

The next step will be to try connecting it to my handheld (before I was testing it with my FT817ND, which was much less mobile) and then to go out and about to see if I can hear anything on the frequencies you listed when I am out and about in an open area. My handheld is a Kenwood THF7E, and can usually open repeaters etc quite well at some distance, so maybe it will work... I have a patch cable I made previously and used with APRS (fitfully successful).

Thanks

Ol

M0LVR

P.S As additional torture I wonder if I can create soundmodem1 as well as soundmodem0, where soundmodem1 could be some other device such as a USB sound card. Likewise I wonder if the axports file can have more than one entry in it and be linked to by more than one kissattach step. From what I can see after a Google nobody has tried this. For instance: axports could contain the axport lines widget1 and widget2, and then you try to create soundmodem0 and soundmodem1 in soundmodemconfig, and then you see if you can launch both in soundmodem and if both appear in /dev/, and then see if you can kissattach widget1 to soundmodem0 and widget2 to soundmodem1, and then axcall widget1 or widget2 separately and so on.

[James Stone]

Sounds good! I would be interested to hear if you get it working. How are you triggering PTT? I ended up using Direwolf when driving my ft736 (from my laptop) as soundmodem kept sending PTT messages on the usb cable I had bought.

Having built the tnc-pi I realise it is perhaps not completely necessary - it takes over the role of soundmodem or Direwolf and provides a nice hardware interface (D-sub) to connect to the radio, but it should be possible to just use the raspberry pi on its own with a software TNC and drive PTT from the pi serial connectors..

73

James M0JMX

[Oliver de Peyer]

Dear James

In the first tests on my 817 I had a USB PTT adapter for my 817 and I basically let soundmodem get on with it.

This time I am going to use VOX for my THF7E; as far as I can see you can set soundmodem to no PTT selected at all.

Is there any way to specify which soundmodem profile soundmodem actually runs?

Usually I just type sudo soundmodem but what if I have multiple profiles in soundmodemconfig?....

73

Ol

M0LVR

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Oliver de Peyer, PhD, CSci, MRSB
Senior Laboratory Research Scientist

Genomics Equipment Park
5th Floor L5-2419 SW511
Francis Crick Institute
Midland Road
London
NW1 1HG

Amateur radio callsign: M0LVR
Twitter @oliverdepeyer

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Satellite phone +33640012962

Email oliver....@crick.ac.uk
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The opinions expressed in this email are my own and may not necessarily reflect those of my employer.

[Bill Burman]

While VOX is usable for packet, you often have to bump up the TXDELAY setting to ensure you generate enough preamble to trigger the VOX & key up before data starts flowing. Probably less of an issue at 1200bps, but it can still cause overhead. 

IIRC, the FT-817 uses a Tx Relay as well, which means even more TXDELAY, but it's probably fine for experimenting with.

Bill/M0HFM

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[Sam Keating-Fry]

GB7NWG is now re-licensed and back on the air.

Signal reports always welcome!

Cheers,

Sam M0SKF

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[Oliver de Peyer]

To answer my earlier question, a close read of the soundmodem man pages shows that the command for chosing amongst different configurations is soundmodem -c whateveryourconfigurationiscalled

‎(use sudo if not root)

So, for i‎nstance, using ‎soundmodemconfig (with sudo again if not root), I created two configurations called godz and illa. godz specified my laptop's own soundcard and I set its channel to /dev/soundmodem0

illa specified my USB soundcard and I set its channel to /dev/soundmodem1

I could then do sudosoundmodem -c godz

or illa

and the relevant audio source would start up. You could see this in /dev/ because soundmodem0 or soundmodem1 would be in blue if present and correct and running and red if not started up or not configured correctly.

In fact, soundmodem runs much more reliably using the -c option and a configuration. All the online guides seem to assume you only have one configuration which is just called with sudo soundmodem (no -c option).

Half the time this doesn't work, because for instance when I go back to check in frustration on soundmodemconfig it has shuffled the alsa settings around for no reason.

You can check what audio devices you have using cat /proc/asound/cards. Basically they will be numbered 0, 1 etc and then you can pick the relevant device from the alsa tab of soundmodemconfig. They will all appear with quite different device names but the numbering (0,1 etc is the same). As I say with only one configuration in soundmodemconfig it kept changing it (0 instead of 1 etc) for no apparent reason but using multiple configurations, it didn't!

I could even run multiple instances of soundmodem in different windows at the same time and have sound coming out of different audio devices simultaneously.

I don't know why you would want to do that, but I can imagine having multiple configurations for different rigs, soundcards etc.

I also got multiple configurations in the axports file to work (/etc/ax25/axports).

Again edit this as root or using sudo.

So, I could have one configuration line in axports called widget1 and another called widget2.

I could then use kissattach to link /dev/soundmodem0 to widget1 and /dev/soundmodem1 to widget2 and so on.

Sudo killall kissattach will wipe all these should you make a mistake.

And then indeed I could do axcall widget1 whatevercallsign or axcall widget2 whatevercallsign and get a squawk out of the corresponding audio device.

It isn't perfect, for one thing even after you have quit soundmodem you will see the relevant device hung open in /dev/, e.g soundmodem1 is still blue, even though it is no longer open because you have quit that instance of soundmodem. Only a full restart of my laptop solves that.

I think that is about everything I have discovered for KISS at least!

Now I just have to work out how to rig a good enough antenna to actually open one of the nodes....

I hope this longwinded explanation is useful to someone‎ but this represents a couple of days headscratching so I hope it might aid some other Linux ax25 user!

73

M0LVR

Oliver

[James Stone]

This sounds like good work! If you have time you should also look at Direwolf as a replacement for soundmodem - you can run it as a normal user and I think it is also being actively maintained. It has the most extensive documentation I've ever seen! I'm pretty sure it doesn't hog the devices once it's closed.

I am still waiting on the new cable to arrive so I can make up the lead from tnc-pi to ft817. In the meantime I've been thinking about the problem with the front end overload on the baofeng. I'm hypothesising that I can make it more sensitive by adding a high pass filter to the antenna (I'm thinking it might be commercial FM stations that are overloading things with the bigger aerials). Going to pull apart another box and wind some inductors and use a variable capacitor I have lying around... Seems unlikely it will work but worth a try?

James M0JMX

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

You might also consider using modern uses paths for the sound devices. They are stable across usb and pci resets. Not sure it would help but if a stable dev identifier would cut down on all this you’ll be better off the question would them be : does the software support arbitrary file paths for specification of devices or did they hardcore the devices hierarchy?

http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html

Some two pence. 

Alan

M0WTH

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[Oliver de Peyer]

Thanks James

I have to say I was quite confused about DireWolf. I do in fact I have it installed on the same laptop but from the documentation I couldn't really work out what it even did. I had thought it was an APRS client. Evidently I got completely the wrong end of the stick?

The device hogging is weird... let's say I control-c out of one instance of soundmodem.‎ Usually the relevant device (e.g. Soundmodem0 or soundmodem1) goes from blue to red in /dev/. But sometimes it doesn't. However if I type ps then I can see no other processes running. I can even use kissattach to attach an axports profile to the device in question and it doesn't give an error. But it soundmodem isn't actually running any more!... is it?....

All of this is a bit useless if I can't call a node to test it all out though.

Not quite sure about your front end getting overloaded, but it is possible this is down to the build quality of the BaoFeng?

What are the symptoms you attribute to this?

My FT817 could just about hear some nodes (I forget which ones I tried) but far too weakly for axlisten to work.

I will try my Kenwood THF7E next which is the best comparator to the BaoFeng since it is a more "premium" handheld.

Oliver M0LVR

From: James Stone Sent: Thursday, 13 June 2019 07:50 To: Oliver de Peyer Reply To: lhs-...@googlegroups.com Cc: LHS radio club Subject: Re: [lhs-radio] Packet radio?

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[Samuel Keating-Fry]

Another vote in favour of Direwolf here! It is mainly used to run APRS digipeaters and i-gates, but it also has a KISS TNC mode. It presents a virtual serial device for your packet software to interact with. This is what I'm using to run GB7NWG (having started out with soundmodem originally).

It claims to have much better decode of weak signals than most hardware or software TNCs by using some clever processing techniques. Although I've yet to test out how much real world difference that makes...

There is a good talk by the author here: https://youtu.be/bRZhm5bLgxs

On the overloading, I hooked a larger antenna up to a baofeng a few years back and found that the front end couldn't handle the very strong signals being blasted out by local pager transmitters. Perhaps you could try a band pass filter as these are around 150MHz.

Cheers,

Sam M0SKF

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lhs-radio/20190613184018.5144643.51076.38097%40googlemail.com.

[James Stone]

Thanks for the hint about the pager frequency. I am planning to use a stub for filtering, but I think that normally gives notch filtering rather than band pass?

And yes, the baofeng has worse receive on a bit aerial so I think it is likely to be overload.

In other news, I have successfully connected to GB7NWG on the TNC-PI driving my ft-817, and was partially successful with connecting to GB7CIP on 144.9375 - get connected but keeps getting stuck at different points. I suspect it is a problem with only 5w output...

73

James M0JMX

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[Marrold]

FWIW I highly recommend the Tait TM8100 Series radios for packet use. They're £20-30 on Ebay ( These are £25 ) and you'll need a sound card of some kind like the Modified CM108 and to make up a cable. It's also worth noting they're a commercial channelised radio so you can't tune to any frequency - it must be pre-programmed. That said there's only a handful of packet frequencies in use. At 12 Watts out they use ~ 2.5 Amps so you could use a cheap Switch Mode PSU.

If a couple of people are interested I don't mind running a session at the Hackspace to make up some sound cards and get some radios programmed. 

Cheers
Matthew

2E0SIP

[James Stone]

They look interesting. What kind of cable do they need for programming? Presumably the sound card is only required if you don't have a hardware TNC?

James M0JMX

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[Marrold]

Ah yeah, if you have a physical TNC you don't need a sound card.

The programming leads are £16 on eBay, but it's just inverted serial at 3.3V - *if* you can find a genuine FTDI chip they can be inverted in software. I have a theory you could also invert it with an arduino (A 3.3v variant) but I've not tested it, or you could just use some transistors. I gave up and bought a cable.

[Steve Bunting]

Hi everyone,

I see that MB7VS has been licenced by M0SKF/OFCOM to run APRS from somewhere in central London. Could you share any details with us Sam?  Site, rough coverage, do you need any help/kit? 

I cycle from Chingford to Loughborough Junction every day and have tried RF tracking but run out of coverage in town so a new digi would be amazing. Happy to help if you need it.

Cheers

Steve

M0BPQ

[Nigel Worsley]

I believe that it is going to be on the roof of the Queen Elizabeth
hall, Southbank
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5066052,-0.1158084,44m/data=!3m1!1e3

Nigel Worsley

[Sam Keating-Fry]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I've got permission to put a digipeater up on the roof of the
Queen Elizabeth Hall. It'll clear the rooftops immediately adjacent to
it, so I'm hoping it will provide some decent coverage in the local
area, but it's difficult to predict coverage given the layout of the
area.

I'm in the process of getting the last few bits of kit together. I've
got the radio (kindly donated by marrold), antenna, controller and
enclosure ready and tested. I now need to get some mounting hardware
and a ~3M pole so we can put it in position and start proper testing.
Any help with that would be greatly appreceated!

Cheers,
Sam M0SKF

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[Steve Bunting]

Super location. Well done! As you know GB3LV was nearby until the TV centre closed and that had pretty good coverage, so fingers crossed. 

If you need T&K brackets I can help. Let me know what size. I also have some steel scaffold poles and possibly some coax. Getting it to you will be the main challenge!

Cheers

Steve

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 12:23:56 PM UTC+1, Sam K-F (M0SKF) wrote:

Hi Steve,

Yes, I've got permission to put a digipeater up on the roof of the
Queen Elizabeth Hall. It'll clear the rooftops immediately adjacent to
it, so I'm hoping it will provide some decent coverage in the local
area, but it's difficult to predict coverage given the layout of the
area.

I'm in the process of getting the last few bits of kit together. I've
got the radio (kindly donated by marrold), antenna, controller and
enclosure ready and tested. I now need to get some mounting hardware
and a ~3M pole so we can put it in position and start proper testing.
Any help with that would be greatly appreceated!

Cheers,
Sam M0SKF

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 10:35, 'Nigel Worsley' via London Hackspace
Radio <lhs-...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> I believe that it is going to be on the roof of the Queen Elizabeth
> hall, Southbank
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5066052,-0.1158084,44m/data=!3m1!1e3
>
> Nigel Worsley
>
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[Steve Bunting]

I know that G4RFC had to fight noise on GB3LV, so if you find the same on 2m I think I have a beer barrel filter somewhere in the garage too.

73

Steve

[Steve Bunting]

Sorry to reactivate an old thread, but I offered to help and haven't done anything to follow up.....

Sam - if you need a pole and brackets just shout! I am steve at mycallsign . com

Cheers

Steve

M0BPQ

[Sam Keating-Fry]

Hi Steve,

I thought I'd replied to you, but just found the draft sat there unsent.
I'd be very keen to take up your offer of mounting hardware and poles.

I'm not going to be able to do anything for a couple of weeks. But
I'll get in touch soon to figure out the logistics of getting the kit
together.

Thanks,
Sam M0SKF

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[Steve Bunting]

No sweat - don't want to look like I don't follow through on promises!

I have work space in a building nearby and plan to order bits to be delivered there when you let me know what is needed.

Cheers

Steve 

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