Is this a place to ask parenting questions
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no mad
May 3, 2017, 8:24:19 PM5/3/17
to Less Wrong Parents
Hi,
I have a pressing parenting question. Is this the place to ask?
I have a pressing parenting question. Is this the place to ask?
John Teddy
May 3, 2017, 8:44:22 PM5/3/17
to no mad, Less Wrong Parents
ask away!
On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 5:24 PM, no mad <modoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I have a pressing parenting question. Is this the place to ask?
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no mad
May 3, 2017, 10:33:32 PM5/3/17
to Less Wrong Parents
OK here goes.
My fiance and I each have 5-6 yo girls. She is all about control and "parenting" and I am more about teaching and sometime parenting. My girl is more emotional then hers and likes to be coddled and babied, and hers acts more like a teenage. When I coddle my daughter I get the feeling my fiance cringes. Thus our girls although the same age have very different issues.
I consider both normal, however my fiance goes out of her way to suggest the my child is abnormal. She loves to hug people alot, so much that teachers have complained. Here mom died when she was just born and I thought this has something to do with this. But this is not why I write. My fiance is a bit of a control freak. She is of the mind set that she is right and her
opinion is all that counts. Now the specific situation.
I come home from work at 7:30 pm, late for diner because I rode my scooter from the train for the first time since last year. I'm 53 and us not in any shape. My daughter codes
to me at the door and complains to me somewhat whining that she doesn't like the place mat and is scared of it(it one teaching anatomy and has skeleton and body parts). I her her complaint and then I turn it over and her my fiance tell me she already tried that. So I another place mat out of the draw and give it to her and she is happy. Then like an mouse trap sprung, my girlfriend accuses me of not supporting her in her decision to make my daughter keep the place mat that was upsetting her. She send me texts to the fact that couples need to back each other up on decisions what are made with regards to disciplining children. Honestly, I didn't even know a decision was made, I only was trying to solve problems. My fience really blew up. "How could I not support her in parenting!" I told her it is only a place mat issue and I was just solving a problem and I walked in on the situation. Then she says she told me her decision about the place mat. It tell her that I didnt realize how important or what went on prior to me being there and that what she told me didn't sound like it was a dictate by a parent at obedience. I had no knowledge of the situation that transpired prior to getting there. She said there was no situation prior and they were eating happily. I am a natural problem solver so all I did was just want to solve a problem my daughter was having at the moment, but the issue is with my fiance make my daughter do something she didn't want to do, and I was really unaware of that. She keeps harping on me not supporting her decision, when to me it seemed so inane that a decision could have been made about a place mat. This wasn't about a sleep-over, or if she should do home work or if she punched someone or made a major lie. It was about a place mat, something I could tell was emotional to my child. I try to explain to here that not everything is on par and she needs to show a little flexability. I support her generally even if I disagree with her. I feel she is looking for issues to fight about. She said all she wanted me to say is "listen to your mother".
I honestly didn't know that this was one of those moments and she won't accept this answer!
My fiance and I each have 5-6 yo girls. She is all about control and "parenting" and I am more about teaching and sometime parenting. My girl is more emotional then hers and likes to be coddled and babied, and hers acts more like a teenage. When I coddle my daughter I get the feeling my fiance cringes. Thus our girls although the same age have very different issues.
I consider both normal, however my fiance goes out of her way to suggest the my child is abnormal. She loves to hug people alot, so much that teachers have complained. Here mom died when she was just born and I thought this has something to do with this. But this is not why I write. My fiance is a bit of a control freak. She is of the mind set that she is right and her
opinion is all that counts. Now the specific situation.
I come home from work at 7:30 pm, late for diner because I rode my scooter from the train for the first time since last year. I'm 53 and us not in any shape. My daughter codes
to me at the door and complains to me somewhat whining that she doesn't like the place mat and is scared of it(it one teaching anatomy and has skeleton and body parts). I her her complaint and then I turn it over and her my fiance tell me she already tried that. So I another place mat out of the draw and give it to her and she is happy. Then like an mouse trap sprung, my girlfriend accuses me of not supporting her in her decision to make my daughter keep the place mat that was upsetting her. She send me texts to the fact that couples need to back each other up on decisions what are made with regards to disciplining children. Honestly, I didn't even know a decision was made, I only was trying to solve problems. My fience really blew up. "How could I not support her in parenting!" I told her it is only a place mat issue and I was just solving a problem and I walked in on the situation. Then she says she told me her decision about the place mat. It tell her that I didnt realize how important or what went on prior to me being there and that what she told me didn't sound like it was a dictate by a parent at obedience. I had no knowledge of the situation that transpired prior to getting there. She said there was no situation prior and they were eating happily. I am a natural problem solver so all I did was just want to solve a problem my daughter was having at the moment, but the issue is with my fiance make my daughter do something she didn't want to do, and I was really unaware of that. She keeps harping on me not supporting her decision, when to me it seemed so inane that a decision could have been made about a place mat. This wasn't about a sleep-over, or if she should do home work or if she punched someone or made a major lie. It was about a place mat, something I could tell was emotional to my child. I try to explain to here that not everything is on par and she needs to show a little flexability. I support her generally even if I disagree with her. I feel she is looking for issues to fight about. She said all she wanted me to say is "listen to your mother".
I honestly didn't know that this was one of those moments and she won't accept this answer!
Scott Saliency
May 4, 2017, 12:05:06 AM5/4/17
to no mad, Less Wrong Parents
Break the engagement.
You and your daughter will be happier.
I see this not being an issue of parenting style but more about someone seeking dominance. I'm guessing you don't normally say no to your fiancé?
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Daniel Smith
May 4, 2017, 1:01:14 AM5/4/17
to Scott Saliency, no mad, Less Wrong Parents
That is maybe more extreme than I'd be willing to state after hearing just one anecdote, though that did sound pretty bad.
no mad, I think you don't have a parenting problem (yet), instead, you and fiance have (at least) a major communication problem. You & child will be super miserable if you don't fix this.
Strategies, assuming you & fiance are both willing to work really hard:
Ask, is your current approach getting you what you want? (for that matter, ask this of yourself as well)
Approach communication problems like there is a system that is failing the both of you, and you have to work together to fix the system. Humans are buggy and you have to find a system that produces good outcomes in spite of your individual flaws.
Negotiate explicit parenting boundaries ahead of time.
Form a habit, ask "how important on a scale 1-10 is this issue to you" before taking action. (This is a speculative idea based on your description. The other suggestions here I have tried personally or observed working for others.)
Form a habit, ask "do you want me to solve this or listen" before solving it. This is especially important for natural problem solvers. It is probably useful in most possible relationships.
If you can find a good one, I would recommend seeing a therapist or a counselor together. A good one will probably be able to give more tailored advice than random people on the internet like me. Judging from my own past experience, I think you should be able to tell whether a therapist/counselor is going to work for you in two or three visits.
Your daughter is possibly old enough to have a valid and useful opinion about the relationship; ask her.
(Bonus tip: try making a list of 10 things you admire/appreciate/respect about your fiance. If this is hard then you probably really should start thinking about an exit strategy. It may be easier to make a good stay/leave decision if you have a plan for each.)
I am just some guy on the internet and this isn't a licensed medical opinion.
I hope you figure out the best course of action for you & your daughter. Good luck.
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Daniel Smith
Saliency
May 4, 2017, 2:02:44 AM5/4/17
to dan...@lukenine45.net, Less Wrong Parents, no mad
Daniel gives very good advice.
My guess though is that the core problem is a difference in esthetics not communication. Your partner needs obedience, you don't and perhaps enjoy being needed.
You don't have a parenting problem because the results are ok for you. Your partner does though because she is not getting what she wants. In fact you are in the way of her attempting to do so.
I'm just skeptical about people's ability to change core needs. Therapy is definitely worth a try though. A good litmus test is if your partner will read the book "non violent communication".
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no mad
May 4, 2017, 2:17:17 AM5/4/17
to Saliency, less-wron...@googlegroups.com
Thanks all for thoughtful comments.
I just down loaded the book and will start listening to it.
I just down loaded the book and will start listening to it.
On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:16 AM, no mad <modoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks,I just down loaded the book and will start listening to it.
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Michael Blume
May 4, 2017, 1:54:15 PM5/4/17
to no mad, Saliency, less-wron...@googlegroups.com
I don't know if you should break up with this person but I do think you should break the engagement until you feel more comfortable with the way she wants to parent your child.
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Divia Eden
May 4, 2017, 9:22:49 PM5/4/17
to no mad, Less Wrong Parents
I basically agree with what everyone else is saying here. I wanted to add some thoughts about step parents, just based on my personal experience with my step-parents (who were nice people). So, just opinions.
I am pretty against trying to assume that kids will think of step-parents as their parents, pushing any language like “mother”, “family”, or making them into authority figures with equal status to the parent. If that stuff is happening organically on the kid’s end, that seems really different. But I think kids know that step-parent relationships aren’t the same thing as parents from birth, and it’s sort of gaslighty to make them act otherwise.
Chatting with step parents, other kids who had step parents, and reviewing what literature I’ve found on the subject supports the overall picture I have that step parents don’t typically act and feel like parents.
Obviously, YMMV and I’m no expert here.
I am pretty against trying to assume that kids will think of step-parents as their parents, pushing any language like “mother”, “family”, or making them into authority figures with equal status to the parent. If that stuff is happening organically on the kid’s end, that seems really different. But I think kids know that step-parent relationships aren’t the same thing as parents from birth, and it’s sort of gaslighty to make them act otherwise.
Chatting with step parents, other kids who had step parents, and reviewing what literature I’ve found on the subject supports the overall picture I have that step parents don’t typically act and feel like parents.
Obviously, YMMV and I’m no expert here.
William Eden
May 6, 2017, 2:40:48 AM5/6/17
to Divia Eden, no mad, Less Wrong Parents
I would also like to recommend that instead of NVC, you read How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids Will Talk. I have summarized the book here, but I suggest the whole thing:
In my experience, if you attempt to use NVC without your fiancee's buy in, it will sound awkward and she will get very suspicious. How to Talk, by contrast, just gives you very natural communication patterns and the right mentality.
With the communication advice out of the way...
You haven't given us a lot of other context, so it's hard to say from this one anecdote what to advise. It may help to hear why you *do* want to stay with this woman.
Contra Mike's advice, I actually don't recommend breaking off the engagement without breaking up fully - that kind of threat to the relationship will undermine the ability to repair it in the future, in my opinion and experience. Either stay and try to improve things, or go.
Happy to weigh in more if you give us more details.
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no mad
May 24, 2017, 1:06:49 PM5/24/17
to William Eden, Divia Eden, Less Wrong Parents
William,
Thanks so much for this!Barry
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William Eden
May 24, 2017, 1:13:13 PM5/24/17
to no mad, Divia Eden, Less Wrong Parents
Richard Frankel
May 25, 2017, 3:16:44 AM5/25/17
to Less Wrong Parents, modoc...@gmail.com, divi...@gmail.com
FWIW, I actually agree with your fiance that it's very important for parents not to undermine each other, and think "parent shopping", intentional or not, is unhealthy and should be stamped out. My kids aren't old enough to do it on purpose, but it does sometimes happen, and I've gotten in the habit of asking my wife if she's already answered the question before I give an answer of my own (or if I accidentally contradict my wife and she lets me know, I apologize to my child but retract my answer in favor of my wife's).
It does of course sound like your fiance's reaction was inappropriate and not properly explained, and separately (with low confidence since I don't really know what I'm talking about), I agree with Divia about step-parents.
Robin Lee Powell
May 25, 2017, 3:28:09 AM5/25/17
to Richard Frankel, Less Wrong Parents, modoc...@gmail.com, divi...@gmail.com
We also go out of our way to nip parent shopping in the bud, but the
reaction still sounds unreasonable, so basically, +1
reaction still sounds unreasonable, so basically, +1
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no mad
May 25, 2017, 10:36:47 AM5/25/17
to Robin Lee Powell, Richard Frankel, Less Wrong Parents, Divia Eden
Robin,
Thanks. I agree with you. However that night I feel like I walked into a trap of sorts. She made assumption about my cognition of the preceding events and the importance of this issues at hand. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to less-wrong-parents+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
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