Ibm 5160
Sherman Desrosiers
w_whalley has it - 5160 really should be showing for you. However, if the label wizard does not seem to be working for your label, you can still try downloading the 5160 template from Avery for Microsoft Word and import it into Writer.
I'm new to metal working and recently acquired leaf springs from my old truck. I'm pretty sure that they are 5160 spring steel. And I was wondering what temperature would be ideal for working a tough steel like this. I plan on making knifes and swords( at least I'm going to try). I would also be grateful if someone could tell me what temperature is best to temper them at. Thanks!
I would always recommend to quench in oil with regular carbon steels. The old Japanese swordsmiths considered a 25% failure rate with quenching in water to be normal. If you are using a steel that will not quench in a fast oil I'd recommend that you get another steel.
As far as the steel in the springs go there is a fair chance that it's 5160. There's also not a bad chance that it's 1095. It could be something else too. If you want to assume that it is 5160 then slowly heat the blade until it just becomes non-magnetic and then heat it just a little more then quench. Temper for two one hour cycles at 375.
The springs are most likely 5160 if the truck is less than 30 years old, but even then they may be something else. The key here is that whatever it is it has to respond to the same heat treatment recipe as 5160 in such a way as to make a functional leaf spring. This means no matter if they are 5160, 9260, 6150, or 1075 they'll work if you follow the same steps and temperatures.
So: forge between around 1900 degrees F down to around 1700 degrees F, or a bright yellow down to medium orange in dim light. This helps prevent cracks. Normalize after forging by bringing it to around 1550 degrees F (a low red in dim light) and letting it air cool to totally black in the dark. Do this three times. This refines the grain you allowed to grow while forging at higher temperatures.
If you can watch the blade, you'll know it has achieved the phase transformation necessary by observing the swirling shadows in the steel as it comes up to heat. The phase change takes energy, which means the bright blade will darken a bit. This is the shadows. As soon as they are gone, you know the transpormation is complete and you are ready to either air cool to normalize or quench to harden. Note that the phase change happens at 1525-1550 degrees F in 5160, while all steels go nonmagnetic at 1425 F. So a magnet can get you close, but you need about a hundred degrees hotter. Don't try to hold it at heat, it does not benefit from soaking.
Always quench 5160 in oil. It will crack in water, period. Mineral oil, canola oil, peanut oil, actual quenching oils, but never motor oil, especially used motor oil. It has stuff added that can ruin a quench, especially used motor oil which almost always has water in it. Heat your oil to around 130 degrees F, just hot enough you don't want to leave your finger in it more than a second or so. You can do this by repeatedly quenching a big chunk of scrap mild steel. This speeds up the quench, oddly enough.
Now then, tempering: this depends on what the blade needs to be able to do. Small knives are fine baked at 350-375 degrees for two cycles of an hour each. This gives great edge holding ability at the expense of flexibilty and impact resistance. 400 is good for bigger knives, 450 for small axes and really big knives for greater impact resistance at the expense of a little edge-holding ability. Swords need flexibility and impact resistance more than anything else, so they need a full spring temper of anywhere from 575 to 700 degrees, depending on the type of sword.
Temper as soon as possible after quenching in a preheated oven using a good oven thermometer (your oven itself will cycle lower and higher than the set temperature by up to 75 degrees either way, with potentially poor results). A pan of dry sand or a couple of bricks in the oven will add thermal mass and help minimize the temperature swings. Be sure to clean the oil off the blade and wrap the bricks in foil if you're using your kitchen oven so you can be allowed to do so again if you're married.
I was reading a book on pattern welding and it mentioned super Damascus. It recommended using 01 and 1050. But I was wondering if 5160 and 1095 would leave a good contrast and not cause any other problems down the line. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
I wouldn't call either of these mixes "super damascus"... I think the book was saying this relative to the old standard mix of high carbon/low carbon, which pretty much gave people 1050 or 1060. 5160 works up OK with the carbon steels, although it does not give amazing contrast. The biggest issue that you will run into is that 5160 hardens more easily than the carbon steels AND moves slower under the hammer AND is more wear resistant. Basically, it works but it will give you some headaches.
When coming up with damascus mixes it is important to keep in mind the relative properties of the materials. Good contrast is generally a must, but you want to make sure that the steels you are combining have similar working and heat-treating characteristics. For example, 1095/L6 provides great contrast but it is easy for the blades to warp in HT because their properties are so different. MAny smiths get around this by switching to O1/L6, which still has good contrast but a smaller difference in properties. The old standard mix of 1095/mild has relatively low contrast and most of the property differences are caused by the higher carbon in the 1095. Since the carbon content will even out quite quickly during the welding and forging process, this mix has basically zero problems because the two steels become almost exactly the same by the time HT rolls around. By contrast, L6 and 1095 are very different based on alloy content, and these alloys do not move very quickly and really do not homogenize during welding and forging. When it comes time to HT you will have something like 1085 (due to carbon migration from 1095 to the L6) and a higher carbon version of L6. 1085 will harden in oil, while the L6 would harden in air if given the chance. Because of the alloy differnces, the L6 also tempers at a slower rate and moves very differently during the HT.
The closest thing I ever saw to Super Damascus was when a late friend of mine forged up catch cable from an aircraft carrier. I know I don't remember what the precise combination of steels were, but I think there was a high carbon, 5160, and something else. It would take a selective hardening line, and even if the little cable segments cracked, the welded matrix wouldn't. Pretty impressive stuff!
As my friend and sometimes mentor Randal Graham used to say, "5160 and anything is crap damascus, I don't care who says otherwise." Everything Peter said above is true. The older books specify 1095 and pure nickel (which is not hardenable but prevents carbon migration) or 1095 and A203E, a low-carbon steel with a lot of nickel. Then came the O1/L6 mix, which is great IF you can control the temperatures properly, as that is not a forgiving mix. Nowadays, for the best contrast and the easiest working you really can't beat 1075/1084 with 15N20. They're basically the same steel, except the 15N20 has 2% nickel which gives it a good contrast.
You left one out there, Alan. Before people were doing O-1 and L-6, it was O-2 and L-6, but then Carpenter quit making O-2 and that was that. The Crucible forging steel they just came up with should work very well with L-6 and through harden without troubles in anything knife thickness.
I did a research project with Verhoeven in 1992 that used nine different mixes of materials and we did Jominy end quench specimens for all of them. It was interesting. That was what led me to start using O-2. Through John M. Smith from Illinois, that information traveled to Ashoken in the summer of '93, and they all ran with it, no one ever mentioning me thereafter. Not that it matters to me now, mind you.
So the new CruForge-V ought to play well with L-6? Not that I'm gonna try it with my primitive facilities, but that's good to know. The chemistry on CruForge-V looks like it ought to etch a nice deep blackish-gray, too. Thanks, Howard!
the 5160 i have added to stuff will stick at first making you think all is well but if you dont keep it red from the first weld toe the first fold it likes to peal back on you i have gone to the 1075/15n20 i like the contrast the carbon content and the hammering on its almost pleasant but then i was using some thing close to l6 that was a bit of a bear to forge it worked better but my suppler started sending me some real crap so i looked around and tho if worked to fast it will shear like the dickens i have managed to keep it together wile twisting a few years playing with it and it will be like butter
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